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Title: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: JayMac on March 21, 2016, 15:22:03 I've just noticed that, following the January 2016 fare rise, many Off Peak Day Returns in Devon or Cornwall are now priced at ^10.10 whilst the Devon Day Ranger or Ride Cornwall Ranger are ^10.00.
Much more validity for a lesser price. With the Ride Cornwall you can use many buses too. I wonder what would be sold at a staffed station if I asked for a return from Tiverton Parkway to Plymouth, Paignton to Barnstaple, or Liskeard to St Ives coming back the same day. Passengers using TVMs won't even have the option of getting the cheapest fare for their journey. ::) Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: LiskeardRich on March 21, 2016, 22:20:06 Guess what idiot paid and didn't notice the price I was paying, for a off peak day return Redruth to Plymouth.
Should staff be offering the cheapest ticket? Had I bought a Ride Cornwall I would of taken the train to Plymouth then try the bus part way back. Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: LiskeardRich on March 21, 2016, 22:30:52 Just had a Twitter dialogue with GWR, not required to offer rangers nor split ticketing when cheaper than a point to point return
https://mobile.twitter.com/richwarwicker/status/712041908407836678 Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: JayMac on March 22, 2016, 01:35:41 I would suggest that twitter responder is wrong. The industry's own code of practice (CoP), and Consumer Protection Regulations (CPRs) consider price to be "material information". Omitting important information, in this case the fact that there is a cheaper product available that allows the same journey, could be seen as both a breach of the CoP and CPRs.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/RetailInformationForRailTicketsCoP.PDF And then there's The Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/RSPDocuments/TSA%20V9_4%20-%20Main%20Agreement%20(Volume%201).pdf#page=176), adherence to which is a franchise requirement, which says: Quote 6-30 THE IMPARTIALITY OBLIGATION (2) Specific requirements (a) If more than one Fare is available that meets the requirements specified by a potential Purchaser and he does not specify which of the Fares he requires, the Operator must seek any additional information from him that is necessary to enable it to recommend (in an impartial manner) which of them is suitable for him. (b) Where an Operator is asked to recommend a suitable Fare or paragraph (a) above applies, it must request sufficient additional information to enable it to make the recommendation. This may (for example) include any of the following:- (i) the departure and/or arrival time required; (ii) how important it is to the person requesting the Fare to minimise the journey time involved; (iii) the importance to him of the price of the Fare; (iv) whether he minds changing trains; (v) (if a return journey is to be made) the extent to which he needs flexibility in his choice of trains for that journey; (vi) whether he wants the flexibility of an Inter-available Fare; and (vii) any special requirements that he has. (c) If more than one Fare is suitable, the Operator must explain the main features of the alternatives in an impartial manner. So if, for example, you are at Redruth ticket office after 0900 and say, "I want to go to Plymouth, coming back later today", you must, at the very least, be offered the Ride Cornwall Ranger. I'd go further and suggest that if you ask for a day return you should also be offered the Ranger. If a specific product is asked for then that can be sold without further interaction. However, "day return" is not a specific product. Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: IndustryInsider on March 22, 2016, 08:04:57 Quote 6-30 THE IMPARTIALITY OBLIGATION (2) Specific requirements (a) If more than one Fare is available that meets the requirements specified by a potential Purchaser and he does not specify which of the Fares he requires, the Operator must seek any additional information from him that is necessary to enable it to recommend (in an impartial manner) which of them is suitable for him. (b) Where an Operator is asked to recommend a suitable Fare or paragraph (a) above applies, it must request sufficient additional information to enable it to make the recommendation. This may (for example) include any of the following:- (i) the departure and/or arrival time required; (ii) how important it is to the person requesting the Fare to minimise the journey time involved; (iii) the importance to him of the price of the Fare; (iv) whether he minds changing trains; (v) (if a return journey is to be made) the extent to which he needs flexibility in his choice of trains for that journey; (vi) whether he wants the flexibility of an Inter-available Fare; and (vii) any special requirements that he has. (c) If more than one Fare is suitable, the Operator must explain the main features of the alternatives in an impartial manner. Do similar obligations apply if you happen to be female? ::) Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: LiskeardRich on March 22, 2016, 08:52:34 They've provided a document that has the wording that they have to only offer 'through' tickets. However To me a Ride Cornwall is a through ticket as it covers the full through journey from Redruth to Plymouth. They've gone off at a tangent that they don't have to offer split ticketing, there is no split ticketing involved. Until the most recent fare rise prices were capped 10p under the Rover tickets covering the same journey, Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: ChrisB on March 22, 2016, 10:03:17 A rover/ranger isn't a 'fare' though, in rail industry parlance, which generally sees those as point-to-point.
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: Tim on March 22, 2016, 10:15:53 Do similar obligations apply if you happen to be female? ::) As my old boss used to say - "the male embraces the female" Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: JayMac on March 22, 2016, 10:39:31 A rover/ranger isn't a 'fare' though, in rail industry parlance, which generally sees those as point-to-point. Citation or source? National Rail Enquiries (definitive source for the public) certainly thinks a Ride Cornwall is a fare. Showing it as the cheapest option when inputting relevant stations. Yes, I'm aware NRE doesn't retail tickets and when redirected to purchase you will be overcharged. Advertising one price and selling at another. Naughty, And just the sort of thing the more robust Consumer Protection legislation is meant to stamp out. Now, if NRE can be programmed to offer the cheapest fare, why can't booking clerks? Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: ChrisB on March 22, 2016, 10:44:40 Fair (fare?) comment - I didn't realise NRE were showing these....so I agree. Transport Focus needs to sort with ATOC then.
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: TaplowGreen on March 22, 2016, 12:08:57 The root cause of course is the ridiculously complex fare structure - simplify that, and the problem is resolved.
Making sure ATOC info is consistent with NRE is of course important in the immediate term but it's treating symptoms rather than cause. Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: ChrisB on March 22, 2016, 12:15:01 Simplification could easily result in the removal of these local rovers/ranger tickets of course. Be careful what you wish for.
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: readytostart on March 22, 2016, 16:35:30 When I was living in the Midlands, the booking office at Stourbridge town would always sell me a one day Centrocard when I asked for a return to Solihull.
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: marky7890 on March 22, 2016, 17:16:05 From Truro the XC 09:04 service isn't off peak, so costs ^14.20 to get to Plymouth (anytime fare), however a Ride Cornwall is just ^10 or ^8.30 with a railcard which is valid as the Ranger starts from 09:00.
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: FarWestJohn on March 22, 2016, 17:58:06 0904 only^4.20 with an advance single or ^3.20 on the 1015.
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: old original on March 22, 2016, 19:55:30 No complaint from me - the staff at Truro have always sold the ^10 Ride Cornwall on the 0904 and now do so on any off peak service to Plymouth without me having to ask
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: LiskeardRich on March 22, 2016, 20:15:27 Simplification could easily result in the removal of these local rovers/ranger tickets of course. Be careful what you wish for. The Ride Cornwall being a council initiative not a railway one would it make it more difficult or easier to remove? Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: LiskeardRich on March 22, 2016, 20:18:14 0904 only^4.20 with an advance single or ^3.20 on the 1015. I paid ^3 recently on that service 0852 redruth to Plymouth, going to collect a car so driving back. It isn't worth an advance single unless coming back a different day or only going one direction or returning on an equally cheap XC advance Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: JayMac on March 22, 2016, 20:23:43 Top marks to Truro ticket office. GWR Twitter say they shouldn't be doing that. GWR Twitter being more and more the company 'computer says no' mouthpiece, with meaningless platitudes. Rather than even doing the very basic bit of customer service by saying the concerns raised will be fed up the food chain.
No replies to later posts on Twitter on this issue. Smacks of, 'ignore and it'll go away'. An attitude that pervades GWR Customer Service from top to bottom. Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 22, 2016, 22:47:49 As it's being discussed here in the public area of the Coffee Shop forum, may I '"cue Ollie" to respond on this particular issue? :-\
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: LiskeardRich on March 22, 2016, 23:17:47 As it's being discussed here in the public area of the Coffee Shop forum, may I '"cue Ollie" to respond on this particular issue? :-\ Ollie was one of the responders on Twitter, and he went off rambling about split tickets in his response, yet split tickets has no relevance to the question asked. The question posed went unanswered. Agree it's fair to give him another chance to answer the question posed. Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 22, 2016, 23:25:43 Hence my use of the :-\ icon.
::) ;) Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: JayMac on March 22, 2016, 23:46:06 That other person on the twitter thread seemed pretty adamant with his point of view... :-X ;)
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: grahame on March 23, 2016, 08:39:12 Presumably the off peak day return fare is still useful for railcard discounted travellers and for groupsave?
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: LiskeardRich on March 23, 2016, 08:40:53 Presumably the off peak day return fare is still useful for railcard discounted travellers and for groupsave? ^6.60 with rail card for an off peak day return Redruth to Plymouth. Ride Cornwall is ^8.30 discounted. Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: plymothian on March 23, 2016, 08:49:50 Many staff in Devon and Cornwall have figured out - on their own initiative - that a Devon Day Ranger or Ride Cornwall can be cheaper than (or equivalent to) a CDR, in much the same way the Devon Evening Ranger is usually the cheapest fare after 18.00.
But many D&C residents don't know of their existence, let alone their entitlement to a D&C Railcard; and as usual a TVM cannot sell Ranger and Rover tickets (nor off peak fares after 00.00). However, this "loophole" is rumoured to be "fixed" by the prices of the Rovers rising come May. Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: Ollie on March 23, 2016, 09:57:53 As it's being discussed here in the public area of the Coffee Shop forum, may I '"cue Ollie" to respond on this particular issue? :-\ Ollie was one of the responders on Twitter, and he went off rambling about split tickets in his response, yet split tickets has no relevance to the question asked. The question posed went unanswered. Agree it's fair to give him another chance to answer the question posed. Yep, I agree in this case my response was wrong about split ticketing, as I wasn't replying to your tweet but one you were mentioned in, so it hadn't shown in the conversation about the Rover, which is why I went on the basis of being a "through journey" and the topic of split ticketing. It's good to see in other posts that offices are indeed selling the cheaper Ride Cornwall ticket where it's appropriate. Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 23, 2016, 17:58:22 Many thanks for your clarification of that point here, Ollie. ;)
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: LiskeardRich on March 23, 2016, 21:11:47 Many staff in Devon and Cornwall have figured out - on their own initiative - that a Devon Day Ranger or Ride Cornwall can be cheaper than (or equivalent to) a CDR, in much the same way the Devon Evening Ranger is usually the cheapest fare after 18.00. But many D&C residents don't know of their existence, let alone their entitlement to a D&C Railcard; and as usual a TVM cannot sell Ranger and Rover tickets (nor off peak fares after 00.00). However, this "loophole" is rumoured to be "fixed" by the prices of the Rovers rising come May. Can the railway increase the price of Council set Rover/Rangers? Or is it the councils raising the price. Ride Cornwall is a council ran initiative set by the council, with revenue proportionately split between the participating operators Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: ChrisB on March 23, 2016, 21:16:17 Possibly the councils trying to mske up for bus service grant cuts?
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: JayMac on March 24, 2016, 02:43:22 The Ride Cornwall Ranger has been around since at least 2009.
Title: Re: Off Peak Day Returns more expensive than Devon Day Ranger/Ride Cornwall Post by: RichardB on March 25, 2016, 09:30:17 Many staff in Devon and Cornwall have figured out - on their own initiative - that a Devon Day Ranger or Ride Cornwall can be cheaper than (or equivalent to) a CDR, in much the same way the Devon Evening Ranger is usually the cheapest fare after 18.00. But many D&C residents don't know of their existence, let alone their entitlement to a D&C Railcard; and as usual a TVM cannot sell Ranger and Rover tickets (nor off peak fares after 00.00). However, this "loophole" is rumoured to be "fixed" by the prices of the Rovers rising come May. Can the railway increase the price of Council set Rover/Rangers? Or is it the councils raising the price. Ride Cornwall is a council ran initiative set by the council, with revenue proportionately split between the participating operators Ride Cornwall isn't a Council-run initiative. Wessex Trains were the prime movers (yes, it's that long ago) and it just carried on into FGW/GWR. It was initially ^12 but was reduced to ^10 many years ago and has been unchanged ever since. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |