Great Western Coffee Shop

Got the 1455 from Plymouth to Reading today (....as an aside it was the green set), train originated from Penzance. Info screens were warning no reservations on the train.

I was in First class and sat in the seat on my ticket anyway as I had an inkling there may be problems.....sure enough, the TM announced that Weekend First upgrades were available and by Newton Abbott First was pretty full....then of course we get people boarding at Exeter, Tiverton etc with first class tickets to find their seats occupied by "upgraders" - cue a debate from the on train staff - first telling people that reservations weren't valid, but then coming through again and telling those who had upgraded would have to move for those with reservations - some refused point blank, others grudgingly moved.....after 3 requests from the TM, a couple of people with FGW staff passes also rather sheepishly gave up their seats.

Rather stupid I felt to offer upgrades in these circumstances, and then a bloody nerve to tell people they'd have to move afterwards!

Perhaps when the reservation system is down on a busy service, Weekend First should be suspended also.  I often use this facility, but I think I would be more annoyed to buy it and then have it snatched from me than knowing before I boarded (or soon after) that I would not be able to enjoy it.

We always knew that the reduction of First class would cause issues on services to and from the SW. First was busy on most SW services when there were two/two and a half coaches. Now every seat is often taken and more leading to what TaplowGreen saw today, despite the increase of the cost of Advance tickets.

GWR may have to rethink the provision of Weekend First on SW services and maybe some South Wales to London services as well where the frequency is hourly at weekends.

In the event I'd been sold a Weekend First and then been asked to vacate the seat, I wouldn't hesitate to ask for a refund of the supplement, PLUS a ^10 'Administration charge'.

Giving this some more thought, GWR will say they are covered with regards to Weekend First as the small print reads 'subject to availability'.

If all seats are taken/reserved then it's not available so you can't upgrade.

Yes but the problem was because there were no reservations.....the train crew were letting people upgrade with no idea how many First class ticket holders were boarding through the journey. It wasn't till Exeter that they realises there was a problem. Weekend First should have been suspended on this service.

Unless the system was totally down, which I doubt, staff should be able to check how many reservations there were even if the physical paper tickets were not on display.

   ......well it would appear that they failed to do so today.....

Was a refund offered to those who had paid for a weekend first upgrade and then been told to move ? If not then that IMHO is bordering on dishonesty, to take the money and then not provide that which has been paid for.

Did all those with first class reservations eventually get a first class seat ? and if not, were refunds of the difference between first and cattle class offered ?

If those with first class reservations suffered significant delay before obtaining a first class seat, was a partial refund offered, perhaps of the difference between first and steerage for a part of the journey.

What about any passengers with first open tickets or season tickets, did they get a first class seat, and if not a refund of the difference in fares ?

I would be most displeased if I had paid for weekend first and then been required to move to cattle class, and if cattle class was by then full and standing and as a result I then had to stand I would be seriously annoyed.
I do of course understand that weekend first might not be available, and would fully understand if told that that it was full or not available. But to take the money and THEN not provide it is very poor.

Anyway the new trains only have 36 first class seats, so better get used to it.

Weekend First is listed as a type of first class ticket - not a space available upgrade that can be withdrawn after sale if too many people with a more expensive kind of first class ticket happens to get on.

In general with the reduction in space, maybe consideration should be given to the Cross Country procedure of weekend first not being available to those with standard advance tickets. They would have been likely to have had the choice of advanced first at time of purchase and should have a reserved seat on that service in any case.

If memory serves, some people hadn't yet paid for their upgrade when the TM came through and asked them to move so they were less of a problem and I think I heard the TM offering them a free tea or coffee......there were a couple sat near me who had boarded at Truro and paid for their upgrade, they refused point blank to move and the TM left them.....by this stage people were getting on with their 1st class tickets/reservations and asking people who were in "their" seats to move....it was only at this stage that the TM asked if any staff were travelling on passes (he asked several times) and one or two people got up and moved into standard class - naughty really as I understood they should have been the first to give up their seats.

There were a few people who had paid for their upgrades and agreed to move, they were promised refunds.

Not sure about open 1st class or season tickets.

To be honest the whole situation could have been avoided (taking into account the lack of reservation tickets)by not allowing any 1st class upgrades until Taunton -from there the service was fast to Reading so it would have been clear if there were any spare seats in 1st.

In my experience, Sunday afternoon services from the SW to London are often very overcrowded especially when everyone's luggage is taken into account, and taking into account the much reduced 1st class accomodation (and higher fares for Advance tickets), it's probably time to call a halt to Weekend 1st on these services.

I agree that the Weekend First policy should be reviewed - perhaps just allowing it in the half-coach section and keeping the full coach as full first class only, rather than getting rid of it all together?

I'd certainly be in favour of a ban on the weekend staff 1st class upgrades on all Sunday afternoon services from the SW (and South Wales) though they should only be used when there's space anyway.

More seats/services desperately needed on Sunday afternoons and the recent extra standard class seats are a most welcome boost on these trains giving the lie to those who claim it's only Thames Valley commuters who benefit to the detriment of others.  Imagine the crowding if all HSTs still only had 5 standard carriages still...

Just a question on this based on something I've just been asked.......are on train staff incentivised to sell Weekend First upgrades?

I believe it just counts as an ordinary ticket sale for them, so could potentially earn them the same amount of commission that selling a normal ticket on board would do.

   ......I guess that explains why they continued to sell them then.

I'm not sure that Conductors/Train Managers do get commission. I know that Assistant Ticket Examiners do.

Not a specific answer for you ... but I do know that ticket sales commission rates where paid (agencies I looked at specifically) aren't at the percentage levels they were just a few years back.  That's probably a natural commercial step, as the independents in the past were looked at to help market a product that was our of fashion, but with passenger number having climbed as they have, the sale is easier.   

A couple of years back, we took a long, hard look at the opportunity that would be afforded by having a ticket agency "here abouts" - but decided that the commercial case that was good on old commission rates had become bordeline at best, and that there was no certainty of the rate not being lowered again long before any up front investment had been recovered.

As far as I'm aware some don't, but some still do.  And for those that do, differing arrangements apply - such as the thresholds for when commission kicks in.  The usual mess of differing conditions for the same jobs that applies in the driving grades at GWR and down to the years they spent as three different franchises.


I guess, though any commission earned from weekend first certainly wouldn't be enough for someone to retire on.

What a farce.

And how many years have FGW/GWR been running these services?

As others have said, this was always going to be an issue after FC was reduced, so why are a Weekend First tickets even been sold any more?

Because on many trains there is still plenty of capacity available and it's still a popular option.

That didn't stop FGW/GWR massively increasing the cost of/limiting availability of the cheaper advance first class tickets though...

..............but what happens when the TM has sold a load of Weekend First upgrades and filled up the entire 1st class coach (often happens on Sundays heading back from the Westcountry to London), train has started at Penzance, and people who've paid full 1st class fares for maximum flexibility get on at (for example) Tiverton? long way to stand up at those prices!

If Weekend First is to stay in the now severely limited First class accommodation it should only be sold in very limited numbers at the time of purchase for selected trains only - same as Advance tickets.

Yes indeed, on those trains I agree - see my own suggestion in post #11 of this thread.  However the number of trains where I would say there is a significant problem (i.e. those you mention on Sundays, and a few others) are very much in the minority when compared to the total number of weekend services GWR runs, so, as I said, on many trains there is still plenty of capacity available and it's still a popular option, hence my reply to the post by 'Umberleigh'.

Yep, so stop it altogether on trains which are known to be very busy, and make it an option when booking on the others.......job done.

Do we actually know there is a problem here? I can well imagine that the train will fill up with weekend firsts, but how many people travel on a Sunday on a full open first class ticket (and without having made a reservation as well).  Given the cost difference between open first and a discounted standard + weekend first, I'd suggest it's probably very few.

Most likely to be those travelling on expenses (such as returning MPs), who probably wouldn't think twice about discounted fares and these pax would probably insist upon a seat <insert cynical smiley>

In which case, as we the taxpayer are paying, repeat, is tgere actually a problem here? :-)

Except I believe MPs (and many other public servants) have only been able to claim standard class fares for a few years now.

According to the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA), MPs should only be claiming for, and only be reimbursed for, 1st Class travel if the fare is the same or less than the walk-up Anytime Standard Class fare.

Taking one west MP at random, Exeter's Ben Bradshaw, his IPSA returns for 2015 show that (cross-referencing with fares data) he's only claiming Standard Class fares.

There is scope for MPs to be more proactive in seeking out cheaper fares (including 1st Class and Advances) to be even less of a draw on the public purse, but I suspect it's easier for them, or their staff, to just pay for, and claim for, the Standard Class walk-up fare fare. Then they can decide to upgrade out of their own pocket.

So it's them that are taking up all these weekend first upgrades?!

I don't think 650 MPs spread across the UK make much of a dent in 1st Class occupancy on a Sunday.

You'd have to have all 25 odd Somerset, Devon and Cornwall MPs deciding to travel on the same Paddington bound HST and all upgrading for them to be the cause of capacity issues in 1st Class.

I remember some years ago when my entire department, spread over three sites, had to attend a very hastily convened meeting at one of the three sites. Us plebs were bussed to the site whilst the management team all had walk up first class returns purchased for them. Yes - it was the beginning of the end!