Great Western Coffee Shop

There were a few delays today (Tuesday) as well as yesterday, due to "poor railhead conditions" which I assume is the old "leaves on the line" excuse.

Seems the RHTT trains are not being as effective as was hoped?
 :(

I expect the RHTT will be as effective as they usually are, but at this time of the year drivers are more cautious under braking and trains are not as effective accelerating, so there will be delays no matter what.  As usual we can expect bad days between now and early December but the exact number depends on what good old Mother Nature throws at us.  A cold and dry autumn making things much more manageable than a mild, wet and windy one.

In answer to the next question, yes other railways do have the same problem - but they don't necessarily apply the same countermeasures. For example there's a regular series of seasonal announcements by SNCF here (http://www.sncf.com/fr/presse/fil-info/automne-feuilles-mortes-115488).

This mentions a programme of comparing notes with other European railways, and trying out each other's ideas. I suspect everyone uses rail washers and braking/traction control, and SNCF are going to try the adhesion gel used here. Their party trick is to stretch nets above the track - so look out for that, maybe coming to a cutting near you soon. 

Every. Single. Year...apologies if it was said in jest, but the old 'old leaves on the line excuse' thing really wears a bit thin.

It's not an 'excuse', it is a genuine and very real problem caused, more often than not, by the dreaded sycamore leaf, which is a particularly slippery character, especially when formed into a highly effective railhead lubricating paste when ground up by the many wheels of passing trains, ably assisted by our generally damp and quite prolonged autumns. Nothing unusual though, happens everywhere where broadleaf, deciduous trees exist near railways in climates which experience an Autumn leaf fall.

Don't know about you, but I'd rather suffer a few minor delays here and there caused by cautious driving at poor adhesion sites, rather than the huge delay (or much much worse...) incurred in sourcing a replacement driver in the event of a SPAD...

Of course there is also the greater risk of losing a train in the signalling system caused by the leaf fall railhead residue insulating the rails from the wheels in track circuited areas (called a 'Wrong Side Failure' whereby the track circuit shows section clear when its actually occupied by a train; a condition that is safety related and dangerous).  A lot of modern signalling systems can mitigate the risk by checking for sequential operation of track circuits.  Of course this is not a problem in axle counter areas.

Whenever I'm tempted to roll my eyes at "leaves on the line", I remember back to my schooldays commuting from Orpington to Sevenoaks by train across the North Downs via Knockholt summit, and remember one frost winter's day when even our electric train struggled to pick up current (an sparked) to the extent that I really wondered if it was going to stall.  We crept though Chelsfield and got some relief through the tunnel just beyond the station, but it was a mightly slow journey with a lot of fireworks outside!

I was on the train to Bristol from Reading this morning and the TM advised that the (Slight) delay was due to "Poor rail conditions in the Paddington area".................haven't seen many trees around there, or maybe it was the wrong type of rain this morning?  ???

One of their few benefits...  ;)

A 150 on Monday just made it up the bank after a stop at St.Germans on Monday afternoon on the 1349 Plymouth to Penzance working. Lost 20 minutes but we made it!! This train as usual was heaving with standing passengers with many transferring from XC with loads of luggage at Plymouth.

HSTs slipping in Cornwall this evening.

Apparently there is/was a 20mph speed restriction at Rattery which isn't/wasn't helping.

 I can live with delays, and understand the problems associated with the 'leaf fall' season.

 What I find disgraceful is the decision of XC to cancel the first 2 trains out of Plymouth this morning.
 Stood at Totnes  waiting the 0558, no problems and on time. The next 'up service' is then 0750.

 It is well documented the problems XC have with Dawlish and sea water, but this has been going on for years
 and still no cure.

To be fair I believe the 05:05 from Penzance stopped additionally around 07:25

Well, the leaf-fall season is now pretty much over and despite it being a mostly mild, wet and windy one, the train service held up pretty well this year I thought.  A couple of bad days and a few heavy delays, but the service didn't seem to fall apart regularly like it has in the last couple of years.

Leaves are still on half the trees round here - the one across the road is as late as I can remember. Maybe the stretched out nature of autumn has helped reduce the quantity at any one time.

Unless they're next years leaves grown early due to the extremely un- December like temperatures !!!

Hope so as I won't have to pick them up from my front garden.

They have claimed cures in the same was as they claim to have sorted out the toilet smell problem.

I expect that the only real cure for the sea wall problem is to swap the sets round with trains that don't have electrics on the roof.  The class 220s are unsuitable trains for the routes they are used on in so many ways. 

I believe the AT300 802s have brake resistors on the roof too?  Hope they are mounted in a less vulnerable position.

Will have?

No AT300 derivative for Greater Western has been built yet. One would hope that Hitachi are aware of, and will learn from, the problems the Class 220/221s have.

Hitachi now have a proven track record of delivering a product to specific requirements in the UK with the Class 395. No reason why the same won't be true for the GW AT300s.

There aren't any suitable trains to swap them for though, are there.

I believe the class 800s are part of the AT300 family, and some of those have been built and indeed already in the UK (one in North Pole depot). But I believe you are correct that the new Hitachi units (class 802 I'm led to believe) which are intended for running trains past Dawlish have not been built yet.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/116884.aspx

 No XC service again passing Dawlish,  yet as far as I am aware the weather is relatively calm ?

Usual XC panic if dicky forecast and Can Voyagers due to electrical equipment on roof.

My partner is a train driver and I will tell you now people laugh at leaves on the line but it's no laughing matter, I must say Totnes is bad for poor railhead conditions there isn't much they can do! Doesn't help that Network Rail sometimes send out the RHTT after the 1st passenger service...

Hi, Sam - and welcome to the forum.    I guess there's only a limited number of Rail Head Treatment Trains, and if the only one they've got in south Devon is doing the Newton Abbott to Plymouth line, it can't be doing the Plymouth to Newton Abbott until an hour later?

I know it's bad and the 1st train out of Plymouth on a Sunday usually gets stuck my partner had a nice 103 min delay on it the other week! And then the RHTT got stuck behind that! Totnes is just horrible for slippy rails the amout of times my partner has come home late because of it is unreal

I was by the sea wall at nine this morning, an hour and a half after high tide and the waves were still crashing onto the track.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/daw2812.jpg)

There could be problems again on Wednesday morning with high tide at Teignmouth due at 08:58 and 60mph winds forecast.

First time I've seen this category "Significant disruption" in Journeycheck, seems a good idea

Things pretty rough in the Westcountry, just seen some footage from Plymouth Hoe, for those who know the area the Tinside Lido is completely submerged - looks like the railways are holding up pretty well under the circumstances.


West Country overview

UPDATED 11:45
Penzance - most signalling issues resulting from weather conditions resolved and virtually back to normal.
Dawlish - Standing water in the 4 foot (between the rails) of the Up Line - 5mph speed restriction in force.
Teignmouth - Now only one track circuit failure on the Down line.
Ivybridge - Two track circuit failures one on the Up and one on the Down.
Looe branch - Reinstated with 2L91.

well XC could acquire a couple more HSTs and dedicate them to the sea wall run.  Might they be able to get them from EMTs in exchange for a couple of voyagers?

I am sure that this throws up various issues but doesn't seem flat out impossible if there was a will to do more than check the weather and tide orecast and simply give up trying to run the service when the tide is high. 

Edit to fix quoting - Grahame

And how/where would the Voyagers be maintained? Back at XC every night?

And where would the EMT Drivers come from with Voyager knowledge ?

Maintaining a few Voyagers for EMT at Central Rivers would hardly be out of their way. And similarly, it would be relatively easy to train the required number of drivers.

But having said that, unless the financials were strongly in their favour, I can hardly see EMT giving up their HST's for Voyagers, purely to enable XC to retain a service west of Exeter on a few days a year. I suspect passengers would regard them as an inferior product too, unless the interiors were refurbed (=more cost).

It does beg the question though, and digressing away from the original topic, as to what is going to replace the Midland HST's post 2019, given the delay in completion of the MML electrification north of Kettering to 2023.

There are several options, none of which are ideal.  The last RAIL magazine had an article suggesting the use of a HST power car with Mk4 coaches.  Personally I think the easy option of just allowing some HSTs to continue beyond the 2019 deadline will be what happens - we know the SoS for Transport has that power if they wish to use it.