Great Western Coffee Shop

I posted some comments about the redevelopment of Birmingham New Street (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16246.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16246.0)) a few weeks ago, saying that it was a fine shopping centre, but that I was less convinced about it as a railway station.

Travelling through Paddington yesterday, I saw the attached.

Am I just getting old and grumpy? "More places to eat, drink and shop" doesn't strike me as the primary purposes of a station.

You have to have something to do when the trains are all cancelled.

Don't Network Rail make money by providing outlets to rent out.

And there's something wrong with getting old and grumpy?  ;D

Stations are aping airports and airports have become a nightmare because most of them unsuccesfully try to mix two distinct types of traveller: business and leisure. Business travellers generally know where they need to go, the shortest way to get there and have very little need of shops (W.H. Smiths and Boots being possible exceptions), using the airline lounge to grab a snack and a drink before boarding. Leisure travellers have more time to spare and are amply catered for by a variety of restaurants and retail outlets. On Monday I had to get from one end of LHR T5 to the other and it took ages; not because of the volume of users but because many of them were ambling around aimlessly (which, I admit, they are perfectly at liberty to do). Heathrow used to be better than Gatwick but there's now little to choose between them. Contrast that with an almost-exclusively-business airport like London City.

Stations (especially terminii) are much more like the business model at peak times. The addition of shops and eateries can be welcome if there are delays but generally they tend to encourage the ambling model - which just doesn't rub well with us grumpies!

I agree, they aren't the primary purposes of a station but I don't mind as long as the design of them respects that fact. The main entrance of Manchester Piccadilly looks like you are entering a shopping centre, not a railway station, and in my mind is therefore an example of station retail done wrong. See this photo (not mine) (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spar_in_Carmarthen.JPG) for an example of how shops can redesign themselves to be more in-keeping with an area (ignore the big white sign in the window, which isn't). Of course, that Spar shop in Carmarthen isn't in a railway station, nor is the style likely to be in-keeping with many stations, but I think it suggests what should be possible.

I believe they do, which is probably the main reason I'm not completely opposed to the idea of putting retail units in stations. It doesn't help however that Network Rail also charge for toilets at the stations they manage, surely the rent from the retail units can pay for the upkeep of the toilets. Don't most cafes outside stations have customer toilets at no extra charge? In a station like Kings Cross or Paddington, there are several eating/drinking establishments but you have to pay to use a Network Rail toilet! Even if they didn't have retail units, I'd be strongly opposed to charging for toilets.

Do airports charge for the use of toilets?

There are of course free to use toilet facilities at Paddington
But you have to know where to go !  ;)

Both pubs....

And curiously enough, St Pancras, the London terminus which has probably undergone the most extensive re-development of a London terminus to date, has (or at least had, quite recently) free to use toilets. Anyone know why St Pancras should be different to most/all of the other major London termini?

Has the downstairs pub got toilets?

The one I use has...pin code protected, but that doesn't change

I didn't realise that.  Noted for the future!

A few other places with free toilets too...

There's usually 20-30 free to use toilets at Paddington.  You just need to board one of the trains to get to them... ;)

.....but not use in the Station if it's an HST!

But in most cases you can't then flush them....   ;)

To quote the great Dustin Hoffman in Meet The Fockers, "If its yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down..."   :D

I don't know for sure, may be due to Network Rail managing on behalf of HS1 Ltd?

Well since this has turned into a toilet thread ::) I for one would appreciate more info than the tantalising stuff so far on where the free ones are at Paddington.  I must have spent a small fortune in 30p's....

The disappearance of free to use public toilets is a national scandal - maybe minor to some, but a major inconvenience (pun intended) to others

As already mentioned, the two pubs - The Mad Bishop and Bear on the first floor of The Lawn, and The Beer House on the concourse.

Then there's the Network Rail Reception (accessible for disabled (no RADAR key required), baby change, or just by asking nicely...), the Hilton Paddington hotel accessible from the mezzanine level of The Lawn, and just outside on Praed St you have Burger King and The Pride of Paddington pub.

Thanks, but I must have misunderstood - I thought a Pin code was needed

For the Beer House yes, but it never changes, so once you have it...

For The Mad Bishop and Bear, no pin code.

Does the McDonalds on platform 1 have toilets?

Of course if you have a first class ticket the excellent GWR First class lounge on platform 1 also has toilets.

Don't think so

The McDonald's doesn't have toilets.

And the 1st Class Lounge can be accessed for around ^4-^6 giving you access to the toilets, hot and cold beverages, fruit and snacks and, depending on the time of day, breakfast pastries, sandwiches, cake, wine.

At lunchtime for example, A couple cups of coffee, biscuits, some sandwiches, crisps, and a piece of fruit for ^6? Bargain.

Yes, NR does. 

Passengers expect retail facilities at stations.  Retail is nothing new on stations ever since 1 November 1848 when W HS Smith & Son opened its first bookstall at Euston.

Also it does give Government something to sell  ::)