Great Western Coffee Shop

Unfortunately no-one could find the off switch for the departure screen during today's naming ceremony at Swindon.   ;D

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/hststarr3.jpg)

On the subject of today's naming ceremony, I photographed the power cars on their way from Laira to Swindon for the ceremony. When somebody saw the pictures, I was asked the question "What is the sense in coupling the two locomotives?" (which I interpreted as "why can't a single power car go on its own?")

Can any of the technical minded or actual drivers on here give a proper, technical answer to that question assuming it is more than "It can't go backwards!"

(http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww255/PhilWakely/20818856173_363ee5bcb5_k_zpsbhertonv.jpg)

(http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww255/PhilWakely/P9152743_zps2giyhxn1.jpg)

I think that's an absolutely brilliant picture #1, Phil: whereabouts were you, to include that great (Devon, I think) landscape in the background?

Between Stoke Canon and Rewe, just north of Exeter - so, yes you were correct with your Devonshire landscape assumption  :) 8)

Just one word springs to mind for me - symmetry!  ;D

I am not technical - but I am told it is to do with braking force.  A single power car would take longer to stop that two coupled together.

There is also a practical consideration in yesterday's case.  A single power car would have needed to continue to Didcot to turn on the triangular junction before heading home.

Thanks, I'll relay that on to the person who asked the question.
 
Or, alternatively, for a longer 'round the houses' route - continue on to Reading and take the B&H without the need for reversal  :)

Surely, no protection at rear (lights etc)?

And it couldn't be driven in reverse, which is prob the stonger reason

I am quite sure there is a lamp bracket on the back; and that it can be driven in reverse.  I would expect though it has to be reversed under the supervision of a shunter on the ground.

I await II's contribution...

I seem to recall that, when the subject of whether a class 43 can run by itself has been raised in the past, somebody has produced a link. Said link lead to a page which shows an occasion when a lone power car was detached from a set of coaches and carried passengers to the nearest station.

Not sure about driving one in reverse, I guess it is possible but not easy.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14548.msg160949#msg160949

I have seen one running on its own, through Reading. I can't remember which way it was going - I mean east or west, it was certainly pointy end first.

I assume it was running from depot to depot, and the likelihood of it having to stop and reverse was assessed as small: probably less than for it failing and needing to be rescued. For the jaunt to Swindon that probably wasn't true. Even if reverse running was not planned, if it could not be ruled out you wouldn't let one out on its own.

I can't think ot can go very far in reverse..how can any driver/pilot see forward without leaning out of the cab window?

At this point I think we should have a reminder of the shortest HST ever to run in passenger service (not the first time I've posted this link...)

http://www.luxsoft.demon.co.uk/village/hst.html

Also previous forum discussion about this somewhat unique occurrence :

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14548.0

Graham posted that link a short time before you did

Great minds think alike ChrisB.   :P ;) ;D

I Allways wondered whether an HST could be driven from the back end of the power cars ? I think the prototype was a DVT of some sort wasn't it .

I've just spotted that there is a real link between the Luxulyan incident and the naming ceremony shown in the OP.

Power car 43035, the unit that actually derailed at Luxulyan is also the un-named, accompanying power car involved in the trip from Laira to Swindon for the naming ceremony  :)

Thoughtwhy were both power cars in blue. I thought FGW was rebranding to all green.

I'm putting my money on quite a significant number of the HSTs never getting this livery, they'll be gone elsewhere or scrapped before they are all done...

Paul   

3 in a row at Paddington on Monday morning...complete with GwR reservation labels....

So how do trains, in general, reverse? I remember once being on one which failed to slow down sufficiently coming into a station and overshot the platform. It reversed maybe a hundred yards until it reached the platform. So I know they can, in as far as they do have a reverse gear ^ this was some sort of small DMU ^ but under what circumstances are they allowed to? As far as the previous signal? "Only as necessary"? Do they have to get some sort of permission from signalman? The guard walking behind with a red flag?!!!

I cannot answer for today's world, but I remember one occasion in 1983, shortly after Pinhoe station re-opened. We had three trains a day in each direction - 3 down in the morning and 3 up in the early evening (essentially for commuters into Exeter). Anyway, the last of the up trains, 1825 EXD-AXM was always formed of a P126 W55xxxx diesel railcar. I was on it on this occasion and the driver genuinely forgot that he now had to stop at Pinhoe, but was going slow enough to pull up about 150 yards beyond the station (just before the line becomes single). There were about a dozen passengers wanting to get off at Pinhoe, but after the driver got out and walked back to the signal box, he gave us the news that he was not allowed to reverse - so we were all carried on to Whimple. The guard gave us all passes back to Pinhoe, which were of no use as we were on the last stopper of the day. So, we were told to use them on the bus (which left Whimple shortly after 8pm and therefore a wait of about an hour!).

Similarly I was on a London bound HST that overshot Chippenham in 1997 (about a week or so after Southall I recall) and stopped a couple of hundred metres beyond the platform.  A tannoy annoucement confirmed that we would have to carry on to Swindon

I wonder why mine was allowed to reverse then? Could it be because it hadn't passed from one signal "block" (is that the term?) to another? Maybe it hadn't gone as far as I remember and part was still in the station. Or perhaps it wasn't allowed, but just did! It was in the late 80s at Stroud. As another passenger said, "Good job he didn't do that at Swindon!"

I was once on a Turbo which reversed - it was the evening Oxfordshire Halts service, back in the days when Combe and Finstock were request stops, and the driver hadn't realised that there was a passenger wanting to get off at Combe. Quick sprint down the train and he set off backwards. Whether it was authorised or not, who knows...

Once upon a time, a very very long time ago, it was explained to me that extra stops can be made at Llanaber but not at Morfa Morddach on trains not scheduled to call there even by request - because Llanaber is hidden away but Morfa Mawddach can be seen from Barmouth, including from the signal box.

Several years ago at Tamworth (pre-Pendolinos, so that gives some idea of date), I was waiting on the northbound platform for a train to Preston. There's four tracks on the WCML at Tamworth - two platform lines and two through lines in between. We could see the train in the distance, stopped before the points that give access to the platform lines.

There must have been a problem with the points, for the train ran past on the through lines, almost disappearing in the distance. And then reversed into the platform - and this was a loco + coaches!

Further delays meant that we arrived at Preston just over an hour late.

Generally, trains can reverse as quickly as they can go forward.  The transmission just changes direction and away you go.  In practice 'propelling', as it's known, is getting less and less common and now only regularly happens with freight trains being formed in yards or occasionally, at locations such as at Didcot, where they will go out onto the main line in order to propel back into another siding.

Happy to be corrected, but the last time regular propelling was allowed on FGW was at Stratford-Upon-Avon where a local instruction meant the driver used to reverse from Platform 1 back to the crossover for Platforms 2/3.  The TM was always observing from the rear end and that practice was halted a good ten years ago now, not long before FGW stopped serving Straford.  So, technically there's nothing stopping a HST from reversing at 125mph, but the rules (quite sensibly) forbid it. 

In the case of station overruns then, with permission of the signaller, trains can go back to the platform as long as they haven't gone more than 400 metres past the platform.  Things that might stop permission being given for such a wrong direction movement are features such as level crossings or signals which mean the move cannot be done safely.  That being said, there is an exception for Combe and Finstock where permission need not be obtained if driving a Turbo and part of the train is platformed.  This is due to the short length of the platform.  But, in all cases, the driver must change ends rather than just select reverse!

Presumably the train was loco + coaches with a DVT*, so had a cab at both ends (although the driver would have had to walk along the track since the loco is not gangwayed to the stock)???

* Driving Van Trailer

I don't think the driver changed ends the time I remember ^ presumably the guard (conductor, TM,... ) was at the other end. Or maybe he did and I just don't remember it.

It was a VERY different railway back in the 80s  :o