Title: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on June 26, 2015, 00:37:57 From the Western Daily Press (http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/Oh-ve-left-drone-train/story-26767202-detail/story.html):
Quote Oh no, I've left my drone on the train (http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276309/Article/images/26767202/10360207.jpg) Bryony Morgan manager of the Bristol 2015 Lab and Helen Brown of Kecks Clothing are surrounded by items which forgetful passengers have left on First Great Western trains in the past year. The public are now invited to recycle these items and put them to good use or buy them in a jumble sale. Among the more bizarre items left are skateboards, Woody and Buzz Lightyear models and even a drone PICTURE: BARBARA EVRIPIDOU Musical instruments, cookery books and even a drone are among the items left behind by careless passengers on First Great Western's train carriages in the past year. And instead of letting the abandoned belongings fester in a lost and found warehouse, this weekend the public will be able to create works of art from them ^ or buy them to give them a good home. Funds raised from the sales will go to charity. Bristol 2015 is partnering with First Great Western this weekend to host a series of "ReFound" events, giving people the chance to create their own piece of Train Treasure from lost property found on trains across the region. Taking place at the Bristol 2015 Lab on the Harbourside, Train Treasure will provide visitors with information on how to restyle and upcycle, as well as giving them the opportunity to take home a few lost gems with a jumble sale in aid of local charities. More than 400 items of unclaimed property are collected on First Great Western trains each week, with all items taken to the lost property department at Bristol Temple Meads to be logged, sorted and reunited with owners where possible. Items most frequently left behind include cycling helmets, umbrellas and items of clothing, but there are also some weird and wonderful items handed in. The department is currently looking for the owner of a drone. On Saturday and Sunday, Helen Brown from Kecks Clothing will demonstrate how to create tote bags and dresses with left behind clothing, and designer and sewing tutor Jennifer Mills will show visitors how to refashion, restyle and upcycle. The lost property available to transform will include microscooters, musical instruments, games, sports equipment, empty wallets, jewellery, clothing and sunglasses. Children can also get hands-on with the activities. The #leaftoleaf workshop will turn unsellable or damaged books into seed paper, and Elm Tree Farm will host a workshop upcycling old cycling helmets into hanging baskets. The lost property jumble sale will sell unclaimed items ^ some still with their tags on ^ for as little as ^1, ^2 or ^5 depending on their condition. All funds that are raised, and any useful items left over from the weekend's activities, will be donated to charities Brandon Trust in collaboration with Elm Tree Farm, Labour behind the Label, St Mungo's Broadway, and the Creative Youth Network. Bryony Morgan, manager of the Bristol 2015 Lab, said: "We're thrilled to be working with First Great Western to provide a new way of rehoming the many items of lost property found on their trains. Not only will the events give visitors some really useful tips for upcycling at home, but it will also raise much-needed funds for very worthy local causes." Amie Coppin, head of sustainability for First Great Western, said: "Dedicated to supporting the communities we serve and with a minimum impact on our environment, it is great to find a new home for these lost items. They've been with us for over three months so to be able to upcycle them and create a new lease of life ^ while helping raise money for local good causes at the same time ^ is fantastic." Train Treasure takes place at the Bristol 2015 Lab from today until Sunday, from 10am until 6pm, and is free. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: TaplowGreen on September 13, 2015, 09:09:21 ..........I'd be interested in folks views on the fairness (or otherwise) of these charges...
http://localbreakingnews.org/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11859626/Lost-property-rip-off-Passengers-charged-to-retrieve-own-items.html Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Timmer on September 13, 2015, 09:26:30 Nothing new, BR used to charge a fee. Someone has to pay for a Lost Property office to be run. However, I think some of the charges are a bit steep but that's because private companies now run them and have to make a profit.
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: grahame on September 13, 2015, 11:46:37 Quote But transport campaigners claim, with passengers already paying ever soaring ticket prices, that lost property ought to be offered for free. To some extent I'm a campaigner, but I cannot say I support that claim. Probably because I run a business at which property is sometimes left - I know how administratively expensive the handling of that property is, and how much time it eats up. And I don't see why the person who never leaves anything behind should in effect be subsidising the person who does so - perhaps quite often; such an effect comes from a free system. The article also talks about differential scales for returning different types of property - 3 pounds for key and 20 pounds for a laptop, for example. Admin, etc, is going to cost the same for both - let's say 10 pounds. Problem is that if you had a flat fee (of that 10 pounds), the laptop owner would pay his tenner, but the key person would say "keep 'em", resulting in a loss making lost property operation which would mean putting the charge up to 20 pounds anyway if something were claimed. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: didcotdean on September 13, 2015, 13:35:12 I have a recollection from one of the many recent railway documentaries of the admin fee being waived on an item as it had only just been brought in (and probably hadn't been booked into the system).
The radio interview I heard suggested to me the particular 'campaigner' was more concerned with it being a private company administering it. I think there is scope for improving the lost property system to reunite more people with their items and having accessible databases but that will cost money to implement. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: JayMac on September 13, 2015, 13:55:44 I wonder what the charges are at Lost Property offices run directly by TOCs, such as GWR's at Bristol Temple Meads.
I've managed to get items back from there for free (ticket wallet, bicycle*) although told I should really be charged. *Yes, I once 'lost' a bike on a railway station. Left it outside the Bristol TM booking office while I made an enquiry, then went straight to my train. I'd planned to take the bike with me. Only when I was halfway to Taunton did I remember! Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: phile on September 13, 2015, 15:56:43 I wonder what the charges are at Lost Property offices run directly by TOCs, such as GWR's at Bristol Temple Meads. I've managed to get items back from there for free (ticket wallet, bicycle*) although told I should really be charged. *Yes, I once 'lost' a bike on a railway station. Left it outside the Bristol TM booking office while I made an enquiry, then went straight to my train. I'd planned to take the bike with me. Only when I was halfway to Taunton did I remember! Don't you have to make contact on FGW via a Call Centre in India. The number of the LPO in Bristol TM is hush hush, isn't it ? Not to be disclosed. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: the void on September 14, 2015, 11:09:06 For the last two years FGW have chosen to ignore the convoluted ATOC pricing bands and have charged a flat rate of ^2 to retrieve an item of Lost Property. With the rebrand to GWR this fee has been dropped altogether and there will no longer be a charge at all. In addition, GWR have partnered with www.missingx.com and from next week, customers will no longer have to contact the call centre to register and search for lost items as this can be done online instead.
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: TaplowGreen on September 14, 2015, 15:13:25 For the last two years FGW have chosen to ignore the convoluted ATOC pricing bands and have charged a flat rate of ^2 to retrieve an item of Lost Property. With the rebrand to GWR this fee has been dropped altogether and there will no longer be a charge at all. In addition, GWR have partnered with www.missingx.com and from next week, customers will no longer have to contact the call centre to register and search for lost items as this can be done online instead. A commendable decision. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: phile on September 14, 2015, 15:44:10 Not for the poor 80 something old lady who inadvertently leaves something on a train and has no access or even possesses computer sills.
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: TaplowGreen on September 14, 2015, 15:48:28 Not for the poor 80 something old lady who inadvertently leaves something on a train and has no access or even possesses computer sills. "can be done online", not has to be - phone is still an option? Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: the void on September 14, 2015, 15:53:54 Quote "can be done online", not has to be - phone is still an option? Phone is of course still an option. Searching through MissingX is in addition to, not instead of... Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: ChrisB on September 16, 2015, 18:28:36 No sympathy, frankly...if you don't like the fees/procedure etc etc, simply don't forget your belongings! Its quite easy & not at all rocket science.
The security aspect in items transferring across the rail network takes staff time and a degree of organisation, all of which costs money. Yes one way or another, the customer will pay, its the customers property, so why not? ^20 is a piffling amount for a ^600 phone or laptop Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Timmer on September 16, 2015, 20:19:01 It's not as if we aren't told at every station stop "please take a moment to check that you have all your personal belongings with you before leaving the train".
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: grahame on September 16, 2015, 20:58:33 It's not as if we aren't told at every station stop "please take a moment to check that you have all your personal belongings with you before leaving the train". We are ... sadly, I've heard it so often, I find it's lost its effect on me. And I find myself thinking I can't take "all my personal belongings" because I've left a lot of them at home. It's a very serious announcement made for a purpose ... I don't know how it's best to do it. On the charge / amount ... we have our own little "Lost Property" at the hotel and I can confirm what a nightmare it can be. Yet we can usually tied it to a particular guest quickly, and we have mobile phone numbers and/or email addresses of everyone who stays. We don't usually charge, but we do take steps to minimise (our) costs by checking room as soon as people leave and as we usually know which businesses in the town our guests will be at - so they can collect at the end of the day. I really would NOY want the rail job! Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Penzance-Paddington on September 29, 2015, 22:02:41 It's not as if we aren't told at every station stop "please take a moment to check that you have all your personal belongings with you before leaving the train". I agree. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: JayMac on September 29, 2015, 22:11:52 Last time I left something on a train I'd had my headphones on the entire journey, bar the ticket check. I'd not have heard the reminder.
Also I think it had been proven that people tune out repetitive messages. As for charges for storing and returning lost property, I have no issue with that provided they are reasonable, reflect only the actual cost and are not profit motivated. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Penzance-Paddington on September 30, 2015, 00:31:58 I'd say ^14.80 per item would be a fair price. Obviously I'd want more money for larger items (if it was down to me).
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 30, 2015, 01:03:52 I'd say ^14.80 per item would be a fair price. Obviously I'd want more money for larger items (if it was down to me). Purely as a matter of idle curiosity on my part, Penzance-Paddington: how did you arrive at such a precise figure of ^14.80 as being "a fair price" for you to charge? Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: JayMac on September 30, 2015, 10:51:59 I'd say ^14.80 per item would be a fair price. Obviously I'd want more money for larger items (if it was down to me). I'd say that was excessive for a bunch of keys, jumper, ticket wallet/railcard... Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Penzance-Paddington on September 30, 2015, 14:16:47 I'd say ^14.80 per item would be a fair price. Obviously I'd want more money for larger items (if it was down to me). I'd say that was excessive for a bunch of keys, jumper, ticket wallet/railcard... By the time you have added up the staff, administration costs etc it adds up to around the ^15 mark. If you employ 2 members of staff in one office to deal with it for example, that could cost around ^180 a day just in staff wages. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: ChrisB on September 30, 2015, 14:38:11 Not only that, the property had to be securely transferred from wherever its recovered to the LPO. That costs money too.
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 30, 2015, 15:56:54 If you employ 2 members of staff in one office to deal with it for example, that could cost around ^180 a day just in staff wages. ^11.25 an hour? Wow! :o Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: ChrisB on September 30, 2015, 16:26:31 Including employer NI & pension...not so wow!
Try & get similar level staff from an agency & you'll get an idea of gross staffing costs Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: readytostart on September 30, 2015, 16:27:04 If you employ 2 members of staff in one office to deal with it for example, that could cost around ^180 a day just in staff wages. ^11.25 an hour? Wow! :o About right if a TOC is doing their own LPO using staff on a general station grade salary. Guessing external companies will pay closer to the minimum wage for staff in thier left-luggage / lost-property offices (such as Excess Baggage). Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: IndustryInsider on September 30, 2015, 16:35:14 In most station, even up to quite large ones, nobody is specifically employed to deal with lost property, it is just part of the job description of, for example, a member of platform dispatch staff. Of course there are costs involved, but only the very large stations have dedicated staff employed. Personally I feel a small charge is warranted for items and that charge should raise depending on how long the item has been kept (and its value), but to charge ^15 to pick up a brolley or bunch of keys is frankly absurd and fortunately the TOCs think so to.
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Penzance-Paddington on September 30, 2015, 21:35:56 In most station, even up to quite large ones, nobody is specifically employed to deal with lost property, it is just part of the job description of, for example, a member of platform dispatch staff. Of course there are costs involved, but only the very large stations have dedicated staff employed. Personally I feel a small charge is warranted for items and that charge should raise depending on how long the item has been kept (and its value), but to charge ^15 to pick up a brolley or bunch of keys is frankly absurd and fortunately the TOCs think so to. How much would you charge for small items and how much would you charge for large/designer items like laptops and tablets? Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: JayMac on September 30, 2015, 22:02:06 In most station, even up to quite large ones, nobody is specifically employed to deal with lost property, it is just part of the job description of, for example, a member of platform dispatch staff. Of course there are costs involved, but only the very large stations have dedicated staff employed. Personally I feel a small charge is warranted for items and that charge should raise depending on how long the item has been kept (and its value), but to charge ^15 to pick up a brolley or bunch of keys is frankly absurd and fortunately the TOCs think so to. How much would you charge for small items and how much would you charge for large/designer items like laptops and tablets? No doubt you Pen-Pad would find a way to criminalise losing property on the railway and charge accordingly. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: John R on September 30, 2015, 22:31:09 In most station, even up to quite large ones, nobody is specifically employed to deal with lost property, it is just part of the job description of, for example, a member of platform dispatch staff. Of course there are costs involved, but only the very large stations have dedicated staff employed. Personally I feel a small charge is warranted for items and that charge should raise depending on how long the item has been kept (and its value), but to charge ^15 to pick up a brolley or bunch of keys is frankly absurd and fortunately the TOCs think so to. How much would you charge for small items and how much would you charge for large/designer items like laptops and tablets? No doubt you Pen-Pad would find a way to criminalise losing property on the railway and charge accordingly. I find that question uncalled for. I know many of us (myself included) had good cause to disagree with the posters view on another subject. But to effectively raise the issue again, on a completely different topic, and in response to a perfectly reasonable question, seems to be goading Penz - Pad to respond. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: IndustryInsider on September 30, 2015, 22:38:12 How much would you charge for small items and how much would you charge for large/designer items like laptops and tablets? I think the ATOC sliding scale of ^3, ^5, ^10 and ^20 is probably about right, though I'd probably reduce the payment by half if the item is collected quickly, say within 3 days. It's a customer friendly act by GWR if it's waiving all charges, but I'd have no qualms personally about paying those amounts of I'd been silly enough to leave something behind. However, if the item concerned causes a security alert, perhaps the person collecting should be charged for the delay minutes they cause. ;) Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Penzance-Paddington on October 01, 2015, 00:02:55 However, if the item concerned causes a security alert, perhaps the person collecting should be charged for the delay minutes they cause. ;) And the delay re-pay for any passengers who arrive late due to an alert ;) Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: JayMac on October 01, 2015, 00:06:27 In most station, even up to quite large ones, nobody is specifically employed to deal with lost property, it is just part of the job description of, for example, a member of platform dispatch staff. Of course there are costs involved, but only the very large stations have dedicated staff employed. Personally I feel a small charge is warranted for items and that charge should raise depending on how long the item has been kept (and its value), but to charge ^15 to pick up a brolley or bunch of keys is frankly absurd and fortunately the TOCs think so to. How much would you charge for small items and how much would you charge for large/designer items like laptops and tablets? No doubt you Pen-Pad would find a way to criminalise losing property on the railway and charge accordingly. I find that question uncalled for. I know many of us (myself included) had good cause to disagree with the posters view on another subject. But to effectively raise the issue again, on a completely different topic, and in response to a perfectly reasonable question, seems to be goading Penz - Pad to respond. It was a statement, not a question. Deliberately flippant and one I stand by. And one I hope Pen-Pad responds to. Every little bit of information that can be gleaned from his postings is information that can prove or (more likely) disprove his bona fides. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Penzance-Paddington on October 01, 2015, 00:33:03 In most station, even up to quite large ones, nobody is specifically employed to deal with lost property, it is just part of the job description of, for example, a member of platform dispatch staff. Of course there are costs involved, but only the very large stations have dedicated staff employed. Personally I feel a small charge is warranted for items and that charge should raise depending on how long the item has been kept (and its value), but to charge ^15 to pick up a brolley or bunch of keys is frankly absurd and fortunately the TOCs think so to. How much would you charge for small items and how much would you charge for large/designer items like laptops and tablets? No doubt you Pen-Pad would find a way to criminalise losing property on the railway and charge accordingly. I find that question uncalled for. I know many of us (myself included) had good cause to disagree with the posters view on another subject. But to effectively raise the issue again, on a completely different topic, and in response to a perfectly reasonable question, seems to be goading Penz - Pad to respond. It was a statement, not a question. Deliberately flippant and one I stand by. And one I hope Pen-Pad responds to. Every little bit of information that can be gleaned from his postings is information that can prove (or more likely) disprove his bona fides. I'm not going to respond just so you can put me on your 'Kicked my cat' Twitter thingy. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: JayMac on October 01, 2015, 00:38:44 FGW/GWR Kicked My Cat (http://www.gwrkickedmycat.com/).
Amusing. But naff all to do with me. Not my Twitter thingy. ::) Although you may now feature if someone should link your postings here to that blog... Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: grahame on October 01, 2015, 06:16:35 Gentlemen, can we keep somewhat on track in our traditional friendly manner? Please let matters which are in the hand of the moderator / admin team be lead by that team. The tiny handful of members who were on that team for a while, but who have taken their own decision to revert to a lower level of involvement, should especially consider the extra workload put onto volunteers by the need to actively intervene in threads, and they should also consider that they're not going to be privy to the various discussions that have gone on behind the scenes on tactics to bring matters towards a conclusion.
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: grahame on October 01, 2015, 06:33:52 I have stated my thoughts earlier in this thread, and won't repeat my general view. A couple of things newly worth comment
a) There was a suggestion of 14.80 as the fee. As an average, maybe - but as a specific fee that seems very odd and although the question has been asked "why choose an odd amount", I haven't yet seen an answer. I am aware of the cynicism felt in Wiltshire where car parking charges are things like 1.10 "no change given" and people feel that it's done to get people to overpay - but that can't be the lost and found reason, where change is given. Or is it? b) The idea of loading the return of an item with the cost of delay minutes / security alerts caused, etc ... I would prefer to see such charges handled separately as they require significant investigation, calculation, etc in the rare cases they happen, and the judgement of professionals who perhaps have legal skill and aren't going to be the day to day lost property team because these security alert incidents are quite rare, and may be co-incicental on who actually finds the property and their personal level of concern. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Penzance-Paddington on October 01, 2015, 22:36:53 Quote these security alert incidents are quite rare, and may be co-incicental on who actually finds the property and their personal level of concern. Out of interest, how many passengers on here would report an un-attended piece of luggage to a member of staff/BTP? I'm just curious. Edited by Brucey to fix quotes Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 01, 2015, 22:39:39 Firstly, I'd have to find a member of GWR staff, never mind a BTP officer, on board a train, for example ... ::)
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: IndustryInsider on October 02, 2015, 02:03:21 Firstly, I'd have to find a member of GWR staff, never mind a BTP officer, on board a train, for example ... ::) There's usually one up the front. ;) Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: broadgage on October 05, 2015, 13:24:28 I must admit that I have avoided reporting unattended items for fear of causing an evacuation and consequent delays.
Reporting unattended luggage was important decades ago when terrorists used to leave bombs in public places concealed in luggage etc. Less relevant these days though as the current fashion is to keep ones bomb with one, or to carry out attacks with a gun or knife and not involving explosives. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: JayMac on October 05, 2015, 13:41:45 At the new New Street on Friday last while I busy taking photos, someone dropped a bag right in the middle of the main concourse and walked off.
Both I and another person spotted this and we went straight to the group of BTP officers and PCSOs stood by the ticket office to report it. I must admit I decided to leave the area and watch the BTP from afar. Seemed like it was someone playing silly buggers as the BTP gave the bag a cursory search and then removed it. Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: TaplowGreen on October 05, 2015, 13:52:09 I must admit that I have avoided reporting unattended items for fear of causing an evacuation and consequent delays. Reporting unattended luggage was important decades ago when terrorists used to leave bombs in public places concealed in luggage etc. Less relevant these days though as the current fashion is to keep ones bomb with one, or to carry out attacks with a gun or knife and not involving explosives. One must admit that one would rather have ones journey delayed for a while, giving one the excuse to calm ones nerves with a pint or two, than have ones constituent parts separated & redistributed throughout the vicinity courtesy of explosive devices! :o Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: bobm on October 05, 2015, 19:34:08 When I was at school in the mid 70s during the IRA's bombing campaign of the mainland it was decreed that we should all have our names visible on our briefcases. One of my classmates took great delight in painting his case with his. His surname was Ireland.
Title: Re: Railway Lost Property issues - ongoing discussion, merged posts Post by: broadgage on October 07, 2015, 00:00:05 I must admit that I have avoided reporting unattended items for fear of causing an evacuation and consequent delays. Reporting unattended luggage was important decades ago when terrorists used to leave bombs in public places concealed in luggage etc. Less relevant these days though as the current fashion is to keep ones bomb with one, or to carry out attacks with a gun or knife and not involving explosives. One must admit that one would rather have ones journey delayed for a while, giving one the excuse to calm ones nerves with a pint or two, than have ones constituent parts separated & redistributed throughout the vicinity courtesy of explosive devices! :o Well so would I ! but my point is that at present the risk of being blown up by a bomb in unattended luggage seems to be effectively zero. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |