Great Western Coffee Shop

With the 5-WES (Wessex Electric) trains due to be replaced next year (or later this year?), I've decided now might be my last chance to ride one, and compare them with the class 444 Desiro units. Unfortunately, it appears these classes are not often used on services that stop at Clapham Junction, so it looks like a walk between Waterloo and Victoria is in order. There will be two of us traveling, both with a railcard. The itinerary I've worked out so far is:

• 09:48 Winchester - London Waterloo arr 10:52 (orriginates from Weymouth at 07:55) (Anytime Single ^22.60 each)
• 11:59 London - Victoria - Gatwick Airport arr. 12:29 (Anytime Single ^13.15 each)
• 12:39 Gatwick Airport - Havant arr. 14:19 (Off Peak Day Single ^10.05 each)

Total of the three single fares for the journey is ^45.80

I don't think there's a day rover that will cover all these trains (nearest I found was Southern's Day Save, but I don't think that's valid on GatEx doesn't help me). I don't have the unit diagrams so if a 450 turns up instead of a 444 at Winchester I'll just wait until a 444 turns up, so Advance tickets are no good. Date of travel will be Monday (the 29th), but I doubt that matters since Advance tickets aren't an option.

While elsewhere split tickets seem to save money, in this case I think combining the journey into fewer tickets should help. I've found two options:
1. a Victoria to Havant Anytime Day Single for ^21.70 each (making ^44.30 when the Winchester - Waterloo fare is added)
2. a Winchester-GTW Anytime Day Single for ^29.75 each (^39.80 with the Gatwick - Havant leg factored in)
However, both these have queries:
1. because I'm breaking my journey at Gatwick, the journey planner isn't showing GatEx services, since through trains are available, so I'm not sure the ticket is valid on GatEx
2. the journey planner tells me to make lots of changes and avoids Waterloo, so I'm not sure the ticket would be valid into Waterloo (on the 09:48 train, it tells me to:

• Change at Wimbledon onto a train that stops at Clapham Junc.
• Change at Clapham Junc. onto a train to Victoria
• finally, change onto GatEx

)

Can anyone do better, or recomend anything I should print to prove validity to any ticket inspectors who question my tickets?

Well, just to prove how complicated the fares system is, the ticket office at Winchester found an even cheaper option! Off-Peak Day Return Portsmouth Stations to London Terminals at ^25.80 each plus the Victoria-Gatwick ^13.15 Anytime Single. I didn't think of buying a ticket for a longer-distance journey than I needed, but it was cheaper than the options I'd considered.

Just had a look at the routing guide (for what it's worth these days) and that ticket does offer a quite a range of routes.

I was surprised to see Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo via Eastleigh, Winchester & Basingstoke as an explicit mapped route (I know there is a direct train so it would be valid anyway).

I think that Portsmouth - London is valid via Gatwick / you may not need the extra single.

I reckon it might be valid on the Gatwick Express as well as it's "Any Permitted". There are no "not Gat Ex" style restrictions as per some other origins/destinations. The "Southern Only" variant would not be IMO (think we had a discussion on here a while back about the trading names vs. operator names in relation to the Gatwick Express).

I hope you have a good trip BTW Rhydgaled. In your OP you mentioned the journey was today, but your follow up post was dated late this afternoon so maybe you're not doing it today.

FWIW I am a fan of the 444s (the best air-con unlike the hothouse 166 I was on the other day; large windows; decent views from most seats; 2+2 layout; some tables) and I have fond memories of the 442s (particularly the "snug" part in the buffet car) so will be interested to hear your comparisons.

... and we're back to the Mornington Crescent version of the routing guide, where the rules are apparently just made up as we go along. ::)

I did wonder whether the extra single was necessary but, since the ticket office had come up with something cheaper than anything I had thought to try, I decided to assume they knew what they were doing and not argue. Either that or the ticket office didn't know whether GatEx would accept the ticket and hence played safe by adding the extra ticket.

Ah yes, the 'direct' (actually meaning 'through') train rule. I wonder if Portsmouth to London Victoria via Gatwick is a valid route or whether only the through train on that route is acceptable on the ticket. If that's the case, it would explain the extra ticket for my GatEx leg.

Thanks, it was a good trip, at least as far as Gatwick (I don't know why*, but the 377 from there to Havant gave a really bumpy and lurchy ride, in contrast to the smooth ride on the 444 and 5-WES). I left Winchester on the 09:48 as planned and made it to Havant by 3pm.

* State of the track, fault with the unit or just a poor design of unit

We're getting a bit off-topic for this section of the forum now, but I think it is hard to compare the train design itself, rather than the current interior fit (which can be changed at refurbishments). Both types were rather good, although I noticed that both types had quite wide pillars between windows (maybe I should have brought a tape measure to see which was wider). The window-size contest I think is won by the 5-WES. On both trains I think the interior was probably about as quiet as a mark3 coach on an IC125 set, but then I believe the coaches I boarded were trailers rather than motor coaches.

Regarding the current interior, on both trains we got a table bay well-aligned with the windows. The seats on modern trains tend to be unsatisfying, but in this case I think seats on the 5-WES were the more disapointing (but I think I still much prefered the unit to the 377). Note to seat designers: do not try to shape the seat to a person's body shape because pepole come in such a range of different sizes. I almost had a coach to myself on the GatEx, so I can't really comment on whether the luggage space was sufficient for an airport service (although I would say this provision was at least as much as most long-distance trains I have been on).

Regarding air-con, on the 377 in particular, I got the impression that the reduced power available on 3rd rail compared to OHLE meant the air-con was only really working when the train was coasting or stationary.