Title: USA - railways, public transport, services and incidents (merged posts) Post by: grahame on May 13, 2015, 06:37:06 Overnight news of a late night North West Corridor Regional service from Washington DC to New York derailment.
Currently reported as 5 dead, 50 injured ... thoughts with them and their families. Very sad that the first news reports I see say "Terrorism is not suspected". No news yet, of course, of the cause - it's happened on a curve; don't know whether it was going to fast or not ... coming off on a curve at speed you're going to end up with a mess, whether or not a speed limit was being exceeded. Title: Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015 Post by: stuving on May 13, 2015, 09:57:20 Here's a link to a report from the Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/philadelphia-train-crash-multiple-injuries-in-amtrak-derailment), and its start:
Quote Amtrak train crash: at least five killed in Philadelphia derailment Mayor describes ^disastrous^ scene with dozens more injured in train wreck on north-eastern Jana Kasperkevic in New York, Warren Murray and agencies Wednesday 13 May 2015 08.24 BST At least five people were killed and dozens more injured when an Amtrak passenger train crashed in Philadelphia on Tuesday night. The Northeast Regional 188 service was carrying 243 people including five crew when it went off the rails between Washington DC and New York City. The front of the train was going into a turn when it started to shake, according to passengers. The Philadelphia mayor, Michael Nutter, said five people had been killed. He described a ^disastrous^ scene after going down on to the tracks. Authorities said another six people were critically injured and 65 taken to hospital from the accident on what is a busy route between New York City and the US capital. (http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/5/13/1431495271738/fe7fa7eb-b82e-40b9-b84e-2e33194615ef-620x372.jpeg) Note that the line is the Northeast Corridor. Title: Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015 Post by: grahame on May 14, 2015, 13:32:54 Note that the line is the Northeast Corridor. Correction noted - my error / rushed and garbled post. From BBC: Quote A passenger train that derailed in Philadelphia, killing at least seven people, was travelling at twice the speed limit, say safety experts. Full story, http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32694447 with graph showing that Europe is much safer than USA (in general) for rail travel. Includes slightly confusing graph "passenger miles per injury" v year - so the LOWER curves are the more dangerous countries Quote The author, Kevin Hassett, writes: "Based on data spanning the period 2004-12, for example, to expect one transit-related injury, a passenger would need to ride the French railroad for 4.9 million miles or the German railroad for 4.1 million miles. Yet he would need to ride America's railroads for only 84,300 miles, on average, to sustain one injury." Title: Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 16, 2015, 20:37:39 From the Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/15/amtrak-crash-positive-train-control-nearly-operational):
Quote Amtrak crash: safety mechanism to slow speeding trains was close to operational Positive train control system was simply awaiting authorization to use private airwaves that would have made transponders along train^s route operational As families begin holding funerals for the eight people killed by Tuesday^s Amtrak train derailment, officials say a safety mechanism that could have stopped the crash was close to being in operation. The seven-car Amtrak Northeast Regional train 188 left the tracks just after 9pm Tuesday outside of Philadelphia^s 30th Street station, with more than 200 passengers on board. The train was traveling at more than 100mph, more than twice the posted speed limit. Federal and local authorities are investigating the accident, and criminal charges are possible. Had an existing safety system been in use, however, the accident may have been prevented. On the Amtrak line between New York and Philadelphia, transponders already on tracks could have slowed the speeding locomotive, but the system was awaiting testing to use the private airwaves that would have made the technology operational, federal officials said. The safety systems, called positive train control (PTC), were required on commuter and some commercial rail lines in 2008 by Congress in the Rail Safety Improvement Act. The law requires the systems to be implemented by the end of 2015. Federal railway regulators say the technology uses digital airwaves and GPS to slow speeding trains on bends, preventing speed-related derailments. The technology can also prevent head-on collisions, and stop trains from speeding through work zones, rail regulators say. In early March, the Federal Communications Commission had just finalized its approval a deal between the railroad and a private purveyor of digital frequencies to begin the safety devices. The deal was years in the making; Amtrak had been working to obtain the frequencies since 2011. However, Amtrak, a publicly funded railroad run by a for-profit corporation, struggled to complete the safety project under its existing funding. Congressional Republicans voted to further cut that funding Wednesday, just hours after the preventable accident killed eight people along the rail. No railroad has finished the safety upgrades to date, federal railway regulators said. ^Knowing many railroads were struggling both financially and technically to meet the deadline for PTC implementation at the end of this year, we have twice asked Congress for authority to better manage the deployment of this safety system as quickly and safely as possible,^ said Kevin F Thompson, spokesperson for the Federal Railroad Administration in a statement emailed to the Guardian. ^Additionally, we have twice requested additional funding from Congress to help Amtrak and commuter railroads implement PTC. While we wait for Congress to act, we will continue to work with all of our stakeholders to ensure that railroads have PTC in use across the country as quickly as possible.^ On Wednesday, the House appropriations committee voted to cut Amtrak^s funding by more than $250m from the $1.4bn it invested last year in the publicly funded, for-profit rail. In New York one of the first funerals for one of the crash victims was held Friday morning. Justin Zemser, 20, was a US naval academy midshipman, according to Reuters. Some of the first legal repercussions of the crash are beginning to surface. Philadelphia police are investigating it as a criminal incident. National Transportation Safety Board member Robert Sumwalt said in a Thursday media briefing that the train^s brakes appeared to be working properly, and that there did not appear to be anything unusual in a track inspection. Federal transportation investigators have yet to interview the train^s engineer, Brandon Bostian. Philadelphia police said Wednesday that Bostian had refused an in-depth interview, and left a police station with a lawyer. His attorney said Bostian has no recollection of the moments leading up to the crash, according to several media reports. However, Reuters reports that Bostian is scheduled to be interviewed by the NTSB in the coming days. ^We look very much forward to the opportunity to interview him. We appreciate that opportunity. We feel that interview will provide us a lot of information,^ Sumwalt said. Title: Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015 Post by: ellendune on May 16, 2015, 20:46:17 So should the relatives be pointing the finger at the Republican budget cuts as the fault?
Title: Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015 Post by: ChrisB on May 16, 2015, 20:51:32 The driver, surely?
Title: Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015 Post by: grahame on May 16, 2015, 21:03:36 The driver, surely? No - not "surely" .... Quote The Amtrak train that derailed along the nation^s busiest tracks may have been struck by an object in the moments before it crashed, investigators said Friday, raising new questions about the deadly accident. from http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/15/philadelphia-amtrak-crash-gets-weirder-fbi-to-investigate-possible-projectile-strike/ May I remind you all of the big danger of deciding on responsibility for accidents ... Title: Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015 Post by: ellendune on May 16, 2015, 21:07:53 May I remind you all of the big danger of deciding on responsibility for accidents ... Sorry if I overstepped a line that is why I asked a question rather than expressing an opinion. Title: Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015 Post by: ChrisB on May 16, 2015, 21:10:10 Something striking the train wouldn't result in it doing 100mph in a 50 limit, would it? Unless it was a rocket up its rear, I guess.
And I put a questionark after my comment too Title: Re: Amtrak derailment, Philadelphia - 12 May 2015 Post by: grahame on May 16, 2015, 21:31:21 May I remind you all of the big danger of deciding on responsibility for accidents ... Sorry if I overstepped a line that is why I asked a question rather than expressing an opinion. Something striking the train wouldn't result in it doing 100mph in a 50 limit, would it? Unless it was a rocket up its rear, I guess. And I put a questionark after my comment too I'm just making the point before we go further than we should ;) A further report I saw referred to checking the windscreen for something striking it. And that may not be good for the driver {for example} (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/train-driver-injured-yobs-who-3436844) Title: USA - railways, public transport, services and incidents (merged posts) Post by: JayMac on May 17, 2015, 15:23:29 from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32771048):
Quote Bus passengers in Atlanta, Georgia had an extremely lucky escape as their bus waited in traffic. The passengers realised that they were stuck in the path of an oncoming train, and started shouting to the bus driver to open the doors. Video inside the bus caught the dramatic and frightening moment when the train collided with the bus. Video of the incident accompanies the story. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32771048 Title: USA - railways, public transport, services and incidents (merged posts) Post by: grahame on August 12, 2016, 20:55:32 http://shareably.net/dog-in-totes-nyc-subway-v1
Quote There’s a new rule in New York City’s subways, and owners of large dogs are having to get very creative in response. It reads, "No person may bring any animal on or into any conveyance or facility unless enclosed in a container." Title: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: broadgage on September 29, 2016, 16:15:14 Fatal train crash in new Jersey, USA.
3 lives confirmed to be lost with fears that the death may be significantly higher. No news as yet as to suspected cause. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37503920 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37503920) Title: Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: broadgage on September 29, 2016, 16:18:58 Slightly later reports state that train ran off the end of the line at a terminus, through the ticket barriers, and that part of the station building has collapsed.
At Hoboken station, new Jersey, a busy commuter station. It is feared that people may be trapped under the wreckage. Title: Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: Jason on September 29, 2016, 16:23:45 The front page of CNN would confirm that.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160929091616-02-new-jersey-hoboken-transit-super-tease.jpeg (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160929091616-02-new-jersey-hoboken-transit-super-tease.jpeg) Title: Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: ChrisB on September 29, 2016, 18:13:41 One now being reported dead, 51 injured in hospital, 3 critical
Driver survived, one of the injured Title: Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: broadgage on September 29, 2016, 19:36:27 Later reports on BBC TV news implied that the installation of some new safety system that could probably have prevented this accident was "underway but not yet completed at the location of the accident"
"positive train control" If I heard it correctly, sounds a bit similar in scope and purpose to TPWS. Title: Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 29, 2016, 20:07:47 An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37503920):
Quote Hoboken station crash: New Jersey train disaster 'kills one' One person has been killed and 108 others injured, some of them critically, after a commuter train crashed into a railway station in the US state of New Jersey. The train reportedly went through ticket barriers and into the reception area of Hoboken station. Images show extensive damage to the train carriages and station, with part of the building roof caved in. Witnesses described a scene of horror at the station. A huge emergency services operation swung into action following the crash, with firefighters and transport staff helping people from wrecked carriages. Hoboken is across the Hudson River from New York City. Many commuters use the busy station to travel into Manhattan. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie confirmed there had been one fatality. Earlier reports said three people had died. "We're not going to speculate on the cause of the accident," Governor Christie said at a news conference. Mr Christie added that the person killed in the accident was struck by debris while standing on a platform. He did not provide more details on the victim. Mark Cardona was on the platform at the time. The "runaway" train missed me by 10-15 feet (3-5m), he told the BBC. There was "absolutely zero chance to react", Mr Cardona said. "It went full speed into and then through the building. I froze. People were screaming... The ceiling started to collapse. I ran for my life." Ben Fairclough, a witness who was at the station, told the BBC: "I wasn't on the train, but I arrived just after it happened. There was water coming down off the roof and people climbing out through the windows. There were people sitting down with blood coming from their head. There were lots of injuries." US rail safety In 2008 the US Congress passed a law requiring all trains to install Positive Train Control (PTC) systems by the end of 2015. But most rail companies were unable to meet the deadline as the system is expensive and complex to install. Some rail lines - including New Jersey Transit - threatened to shut down completely if it was enforced. In response, Congress extended the deadline to install PTC systems to 2018. Rail lines can then apply for an additional two-year extension to finalise updates and test the system. But safety targets for New Jersey's commuter trains say PTC installation should be completed by 2018. According New Jersey Transit's most recent PTC progress report, none of the 440 trains on the New Jersey Transit rail line are equipped with PTC, nor have any employees been trained on the equipment. PTC safety systems are designed to automatically override the actions of train engineers if the locomotive is travelling too fast. In effect, they act as a safeguard against "human error" which could cause derailments or collisions. The system uses wifi, GPS and a specific coding system to relay real-time information from trains to control centres. Last year, the Guardian reported that US trains were far behind those in Europe, which have had automatic safety systems for years. New Jersey Transit posted on Twitter that the service out of Hoboken station had been suspended as a result of the crash. (http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/132A9/production/_91450587_5a9a4266-2152-4da7-a256-99f4a176bb38.jpg) The train ploughed into the station (http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/294E/production/_91447501_28ca9d97-75ef-414b-8fbb-91b5a1e824a9.jpg) The roof of the station collapsed (http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/18492/production/_91447499_d50d54ef-b636-4d52-98e6-cb6925524812.jpg) Passengers fled wrecked carriages (http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/E852/production/_91447495_0a6e9641-70bf-41c3-a5ed-dd0a0b68b705.jpg) Emergency workers treated the many wounded Title: Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: ChrisB on September 29, 2016, 23:29:23 That page has been updated to name the lady killed by flying debris on a platform. There's also a link to details on the safety system. The New Jersey Transit considered it too expensive to fit when first required by State legislators, so deadline was pushed out to 2018, with a further two year extension possible!
But at least no one killed on the train itself (yet) Title: Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: ChrisB on September 29, 2016, 23:41:23 Blimey! This thread is really far West!
[edit]was in Across the West thread when I posted this[/edit] Title: Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 29, 2016, 23:49:47 A valid comment, ChrisB: this topic was indeed on our 'The Wider Picture' board - until I renamed it, to clarify some facts of the sad incident as they became known.
I've now moved this topic back to where it belongs, with my apologies for any confusion. :-[ Title: Re: One killed, many injured in train crash at Hoboken station, New Jersey - 29 Sep 2016 Post by: Noggin on September 30, 2016, 11:43:47 That page has been updated to name the lady killed by flying debris on a platform. There's also a link to details on the safety system. The New Jersey Transit considered it too expensive to fit when first required by State legislators, so deadline was pushed out to 2018, with a further two year extension possible! But at least no one killed on the train itself (yet) The saga relating to PTC, which indeed, is similar to AWS and other systems that apply the brakes in the event of an overspeed/SPAD. You can read more about it at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control). In many ways the fact that so few people were killed is down to the robust construction of US rolling stock, which of course is terrible for energy consumption and performance, but does help in tragic circumstances like these. Title: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: SandTEngineer on December 18, 2017, 18:21:29 This looks really serious. The train has derailed off an overbridge onto one of the state highways.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42401707 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRWDMuZVoAA38b4?format=jpg) Quote Train carriages have plummeted on to a motorway in Washington state, causing "multiple" fatalities, police say. The train derailed and the carriages fell on to the I-5 highway below. Images from the scene show emergency services treating people on the ground. It appears that at least four carriages have left the track; one of them is upside down on the highway. Several cars on the highway were struck by the derailed carriages, the Pierce County Sheriff's department says. Sheriff department spokesman Ed Troyer said that there were "multiple" fatalities on the train, but no motorists had been killed. The fire department had taken many people out of the train and they had been taken to hospitals, he added. One carriage was hanging from the tracks, while another was upside down Passenger Chris Karnes, on board the train, said the carriage he was on careened down an embankment then came to a stop: "We could hear and feel the cars crumpling and breaking apart, and water came out from the ceiling." "In order to get out... we had to kick out the emergency window," he said. Amtrak said that there were approximately 78 passengers and five crew members on board the train. The incident happened near DuPont, which is southwest of Tacoma. Officials have set up a family reunification centre at DuPont city hall, and asked people not to come to the scene of the crash. The was the first time an Amtrak train carrying passengers southbound had run on a new section of track running parallel to I-5, called the Point Defiance Bypass. The crash occurred around 07:30 (15:30 GMT), about 45 minutes into train 501's journey between Portland and Seattle. Before the crash, it was travelling at more than 80mph (130km/h). The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: Oxonhutch on December 18, 2017, 19:22:56 As a part-time railwayman, something about this stinks. I'll leave it at that right now.
Condolences to all. Awful time. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: grahame on December 18, 2017, 19:39:12 I noted that the line opened ... today - https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Rail/PNWRC_PtDefiance/default.htm - and as such there will be some rather different factors to the norm to be considered.
Quote Overview The Point Defiance Bypass Project will reroute passenger trains to an inland rail line along the west side of I-5 through south Tacoma, Lakewood, and DuPont. Sound Transit currently uses a portion of this route for Sounder commuter rail service to Lakewood. This project will improve passenger train reliability by reducing congestion with freight trains and eliminating travel on tight corners and tunnels. Why is WSDOT upgrading tracks for passenger trains to bypass the Point Defiance area in Tacoma? Passenger trains, including Amtrak Cascades, currently must slow down due to curves and single-track tunnels on the BNSF Railway main line tracks near Point Defiance and along southern Puget Sound. This project reroutes passenger trains to an inland route. The bypass is on an existing rail line that runs along the west side of Interstate 5 (I-5), from south Tacoma through Lakewood and DuPont. It reconnects back to the BNSF Railway main line near Nisqually, on the east side of I-5. It also adds a new Amtrak Cascades station in Tacoma's Freighthouse Square building. Freight train traffic patterns will not change with most freight trains continuing to use the existing main line near Point Defiance and along southern Puget Sound. The few freight trains that currently use the bypass route will continue to use it during and after the project. The End Result The end result is more frequent, more reliable, and faster Amtrak Cascades service. The improvements will allow passenger trains to use the bypass route without being delayed by freight or Sounder trains. After the completion of other capital rail projects, two additional daily round trip passenger trains could be added. Freight train traffic will not increase on this line beyond the minimal amount that utilizes it today. When completed, the Point Defiance Rail Bypass project will bring a total of six daily round trip Amtrak Cascades trains and one Coast Starlight train through Tacoma, Lakewood, and DuPont intersections, with an average crossing time of 45 seconds per intersection and a maximum speed of 79 mph. Project Benefits Improved Amtrak Cascades reliability. Faster, more frequent Amtrak Cascades service. What is the project timeline? The environmental and design process began in July 2006, and was completed in 2008. The new line opens to service on Dec. 18, 2017. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: stuving on December 18, 2017, 19:44:07 I saw that said this was a new bit of line. It is mostly straight, alongside I5, then does quite a sharp wiggle to cross it to the south side to join the old Point Defiance line. I reckon that bend is around 260 m radius, which is pretty sharp to be taken at 80 mi/hr. But new track is tested, and American safety rules on this kind of thing are as strict as anyone else's.
It looks as if the front of the train did leave the track to go straight on, down a slope to the road. As it slowed the following carriages concertinaed and some came off on the inside of the turn and so they came down the side of the embankment beside the bridge. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: trainer on December 18, 2017, 22:24:18 On this site we encourage people not to speculate on such accidents too much and often first impressions prove inadequate explanations. However, according to several news sources (inc. The Independent and Sky News) President Trump has no such qualms and is already using (exploiting?) this awful tragedy to push his infrastructure agenda. An example of poor infrastructure or not, it's certainly not old and in need of replacement and one wonders how at such an early stage it can be used as an example of anything.
A very sad day for all concerned and as others have, I express my sympathy for the individuals caught up in it. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: grahame on December 19, 2017, 06:40:40 On this site we encourage people not to speculate on such accidents too much and often first impressions prove inadequate explanations. However, according to several news sources (inc. The Independent and Sky News) President Trump has no such qualms and is already using (exploiting?) this awful tragedy to push his infrastructure agenda. An example of poor infrastructure or not, it's certainly not old and in need of replacement and one wonders how at such an early stage it can be used as an example of anything. A very sad day for all concerned and as others have, I express my sympathy for the individuals caught up in it. Mr Trump's suggestion that this shows the need for infrastructure modernisation seems to be at odds with what is being said elsewhere. True, we don't speculate before anything's know here ... but so much is bang said and talked about that I'm going to quote an online sources. From ApNews (https://apnews.com/83757b6c224148549b783567e79b1901) Quote DUPONT, Wash. (AP) — An Amtrak train making the first-ever run along a faster new route hurtled off an overpass south of Seattle on Monday and spilled some of its cars onto the highway below, killing at least three people, injuring dozens and crushing two vehicles, authorities said. Attention quickly turned to the train’s speed. A website that maps location and speed using data from Amtrak’s train tracker app showed the train was going 81.1 mph (129 kph) about a quarter of a mile from the point where it derailed, where the speed limit is significantly lower. There were 80 passengers and five on duty crew when the train derailed and pulled 13 cars off the tracks. Authorities said there were three confirmed deaths. More than 70 people were taken for medical care — including 10 with serious injuries. About two hours after the accident, a U.S. official who was briefed on the investigation said he was told at least six people were killed. The official said he had no new information to explain the discrepancy in the numbers. The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. A track chart prepared by the Washington State Department of Transportation shows the maximum speed drops from 79 mph (127 kph) to 30 mph (48 kph) for passenger trains just before the tracks curve to cross Interstate 5, which is where the train went off the tracks. The chart, dated Feb. 7, 2017, was submitted to the Federal Railroad Administration in anticipation of the start of passenger service along a new bypass route that shaves 10 minutes off the trip between Seattle and Portland. It was not clear how fast the train was moving at the precise moment when it derailed. National Transportation Safety Board investigators were at the scene trying to determine the derailment’s cause. Kimberly Reason with Sound Transit, the Seattle-area transit agency that owns the tracks, confirmed to the AP that the speed limit at the point where the train derailed is 30 mph (48 kph). Speed signs are posted two miles before the speed zone and just before the speed zone approaching the curve, she said. Positive train control — the technology that can slow or stop a speeding train — wasn’t in use on this stretch of track, according to Amtrak President Richard Anderson. He spoke on a conference call with reporters, said he was “deeply saddened by all that has happened today.” Bob Chipkevich, a former NTSB director of railroad, pipeline and hazardous materials investigations, told The Seattle Times the crash looked like a high-speed derailment based on television images. In a radio transmission immediately after the accident, the conductor can be heard saying the train was coming around a corner and was crossing a bridge that passed over Interstate 5 when it derailed. Dispatch audio also indicated that the engineer survived with bleeding from the head and both eyes swollen shut. “I’m still figuring that out. We’ve got cars everywhere and down onto the highway,” he tells the dispatcher, who asks if everyone is OK. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: grahame on December 19, 2017, 07:52:39 And from The BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42408624) ... new text at the top into which I suspect they've pasted background from yesterday
Quote A US passenger train that derailed, killing three people, was going at 81mph (130km/h) on a curve with a restricted speed limit, according to data from a train tracking website.The curve's speed limit drops to 30mph.Passengers say the train rocked and creaked as it took the bend fast before barrelling off a bridge on to a motorway packed with traffic. It happened in Washington state during rush hour on Monday and officials say 72 people were taken to hospitals. A number of those injured are reported to be in a critical condition. Authorities said all carriages had now been searched, but would not rule out a rise in the number of dead. The cause of Monday's crash has not been confirmed. Seven vehicles, two of them lorries, were hit on the I-5 highway below. Several people were injured in their vehicles but none died. State transport spokesperson Barbara LaBoe was quoted in the Seattle Times newspaper as saying the limit on most of the track was 79mph (128km/h) but drivers were supposed to slow dramatically at the spot where the train derailed. She said warning signs were in place two miles before the lowered limit. It was Amtrak's first passenger service to run on a new, shorter route. Amtrak is the name of the company that runs most passenger trains in the US, with some government funding. The derailment happened on a section of track previously only used for freight trains. Train 501 had left Seattle, heading south for Portland, at 06:00 local time (14:00 GMT). One passenger carriage could be seen dangling from the bridge, while others were strewn across the road and the wooded area next to the track.There were 86 people on board, including 77 passengers and seven Amtrak crew members, as well as a train technician. Police say 19 people were taken from the scene uninjured. Of the 72 transferred to hospitals for evaluation, 10 were considered to have serious injuries. A recording of the train's emergency call to railway dispatchers was released to US media. "Emergency! We are on the ground!" a man, possibly the conductor, radios in. In a second radio call, another crew member reports that only the rear unit remains on the rails. "All other cars appear to be on the ground in quite a mess," he says. The train's engineer has a head injury, he tells dispatchers. President Donald Trump's first reaction to the derailment was to tweet that it showed the need for his forthcoming infrastructure plan. However US media outlets pointed out his submitted federal transportation budget actually proposed cuts to funding to national rail systems. He later added that his thoughts and prayers were with those involved. The section of track where the crash happened has been recently rebuilt and upgraded using federal funds. Washington's governor has declared a state of emergency in two counties. Passenger Chris Karnes, on board the train, said his carriage had careered down an embankment then come to a stop: "We could hear and feel the cars crumpling and breaking apart, and water came out from the ceiling." "In order to get out... we had to kick out the emergency window," he added. Governor Jay Inslee said he was praying for the many injured. Officials set up a family reunification centre at DuPont city hall and asked people not to come to the scene of the crash. A local news reporter who was on the train, but got off at a stop just before the crash, said many of those on board were railway enthusiasts, keen to experience the first high-speed train on the new route. Every passenger was given a commemorative lanyard and badge to mark their journey, he said. The train involved was operated by Amtrak and Monday's service was the first 0600 departure under the new timetable and on the new Point Defiance Bypass route The train consisted of 14 cars, two of which were locomotives It was being led by a Siemens Charger locomotive and was trailing a P52 unit which was not under power, Amtrak said There were 12 Talgo carriages, each of which could take up to 36 passengers, but only 77 customers were on board Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: TonyK on December 19, 2017, 09:29:39 Whatever the cause, it is an awful accident. It is amazing, however, that it wasn't worse. Despite carriages falling onto a busy road in rush hour, no-one outside the train seems to have died as a result of this incident.
Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: Worcester_Passenger on December 19, 2017, 10:28:54 The BBC report has a link to the Seattle Times report, https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/), which has a picture from above - a very sharp curve indeed.
Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: Phantom on December 19, 2017, 12:19:15 I reckon that bend is around 260 m radius, which is pretty sharp to be taken at 80 mi/hr. But new track is tested, and American safety rules on this kind of thing are as strict as anyone else's. Doing 80 mph on an area where the limit was 30mph Inexperienced driver using the new line?, Train fault? Something went VERY wrong RIP Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: Red Squirrel on December 19, 2017, 18:01:55 The BBC report has a link to the Seattle Times report, https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/), which has a picture from above - a very sharp curve indeed. I'm sure the curvature is greatly exaggerated by the foreshortening effect of a long lens... but it's a bend alright, as you can see on Google maps (https://goo.gl/maps/8K2gYZxgL842) Edit: add link to Google maps Title: Re: Washington USA - Train Crash 18/12/2017 Post by: stuving on December 19, 2017, 18:33:43 The BBC report has a link to the Seattle Times report, https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/curve-where-amtrak-train-derailed-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/), which has a picture from above - a very sharp curve indeed. I'm sure the curvature is greatly exaggerated by the foreshortening effect of a long lens... Seen from above, it's still quite a bend for a train. There have been a lot of overspeed accidents recently, and the main three I can think of have two big common factors. The three are SNCF Eckwersheim Nov 2015, Amtrak Philadelphia May 2015, and Renfe Santiago de Compostela July 2013. Firstly, all these trains could or should have had some train control system that would prevent overspeeding, by warning the driver or intervening. It was variously turned off for testing, missing transitionally, and for Amtrak "OK, we're doing it but give us a year or two more" still applies for the latest one. When the NTSB reported on Amtrak Passenger Train 188, the chairman commented “Unless positive train control is implemented soon, I’m very concerned that we’re going to be back in this room again, hearing investigators detail how technology that we have recommended for more than 45 years could have prevented yet another fatal rail accident.” The other common factor in the first three is distraction. Phone calls, radio messages, and too many people in the cab all played a part in "loss of situational awareness". I will not be surprised if this inaugural trip over a new section of track involved something similar. Otherwise, the new track only has one very noticeable feature in it - a sharp bend following a long straight. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: froome on December 19, 2017, 18:57:16 One commentator I heard last night said the US has a very bad track record of train accidents. Is that the case? If so, any reason why?
Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: grahame on December 19, 2017, 19:53:59 One commentator I heard last night said the US has a very bad track record of train accidents. Is that the case? If so, any reason why? There do seem to be an awful lot of them. Whether that's because ATC only operates on a few lines and there are large numbers of open level crossings, or simply because it's such a huge country and accidents per mile are no worse than elsewhere, I wouldn't know. Obviously, if you have a line 10 miles long that carried 1500 journeys a day, it's a lot cheaper to maintain than a line 100 miles long with the same number of journeys, so things seem not to be quite so gold-safety plated as in the UK. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: Tim on December 20, 2017, 10:01:54 It is reported that two of the people to die were train fans and public transport advocates who had been involved in campaigning for improvements on the route on which they dies. Terribly sad http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/2-rail-buffs-killed-in-wreck-couldn-t-wait-for-12443648.php (http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/2-rail-buffs-killed-in-wreck-couldn-t-wait-for-12443648.php)
Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: grahame on December 20, 2017, 10:08:06 Quoting a little more in tribute
Quote SEATTLE (AP) — They weren't just two guys who loved trains. Jim Hamre and Zack Willhoite were also bosom buddies in their passion for public transportation who had excitedly awaited the day higher-speed trains could zip through their home turf. The two pals hopped on an Amtrak train together Monday, becoming some of the first passengers to take the maiden voyage of a faster route between Portland, Oregon, and Seattle. Hamre, 61, and Willhoite, 35, were among the three killed when the train going 80 mph in a 30 mph zone derailed south of Seattle and toppled some cars on a highway below. Dozens of others were hurt, some seriously. Family and friends said Tuesday that they were devastated by the deaths, describing the men as devoted rail advocates who were loved by many. They were both knowledgeable about the technical aspects of trains and had spent their lives advocating for such a route. "Yesterday was a moment of great happiness for them, which makes this so heartbreaking," said Carl Fowler, a friend who has worked with Hamre and Willhoite in rail advocacy for years. He added: "Despite yesterday's tragedy, the Cascade corridor that they built will be their monument." Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: didcotdean on December 20, 2017, 17:20:06 One commentator I heard last night said the US has a very bad track record of train accidents. Is that the case? If so, any reason why? Per train-kilometre the USA mortality rate is twice that of the EU average and about five times that in the UK (source: OECD).Using a different measure, on average to experience any kind of injury on a train ride in France or Germany you would need to travel roughly 50 times further than in the USA. For further perspective this is still over 80,000 miles. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: SandTEngineer on December 22, 2017, 19:24:22 An update (22/12/2017):
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/washington-state-no-passenger-trains-on-amtrak-derailment-route-until-safety-systems-are-in-place Quote Washington state transportation officials won’t restart passenger service along the rail line where an Amtrak train derailed until advanced safety systems are in place, a spokeswoman said Thursday. Barbara LaBoe, a spokeswoman for the Washington state Department of Transportation, said passenger trains will use the older rail line along the coast until “positive train control” technology is ready for the Point Defiance Bypass route. The Amtrak train that derailed on Monday, killing three people and injuring dozens more, was on its inaugural passenger run along the new bypass line that was to speed service south of Tacoma. Investigators still examining the cause of the crash say the train was traveling 80 mph when it entered a curve that has a speed limit of 30 mph. Officials pushed 'aggressive' timeline before safety tech was ready. Here’s what we know — and don’t know — about the derailment near Olympia It took authorities hours to search the wreckage. Train was 50 mph over limit when it derailed at curve before I-5 crossing Longtime rail advocates among those killed Lakewood mayor had predicted new Amtrak rail line would lead to fatalities. Man pulled gun on motorist taking food to Amtrak derailment first responders, prosecutors say Positive train control systems can detect a train that’s exceeding speed limits and slow the train. Crews have been working to set up those systems on the Point Defiance Bypass route — and had hoped to have it ready at the start of service — but were still in the testing phase this week. Officials had been working on an “aggressive” timeline to finish the new line this year, with documents showing the state had a deadline of the middle of the year to finish construction in order to fully collect on federal stimulus money awarded years earlier. The state had also vowed to open service in the fall. LaBoe said the decision to halt passenger service on the new route until the systems were in place was not an indication that the state considers the tracks unsafe. She said the new line had been thoroughly inspected and that it was a matter of sensitivity, for those killed in the tragedy and for those who will ride the route in the future. She also said officials were wanting to have renewed conversations with communities along the new route. “It’s not a question of the safety of those tracks,” LaBoe said. The older route where trains will continue running also does not have the train-control technology, but LaBoe said the state has been operating there for many years without major issues. LaBoe said the state didn’t know when the train-control systems would be ready for the new line. A spokesman for Sound Transit, which owns the tracks, has said it’s planning to activate the technology before the end of June. Sound Transit has also been working to get more train-control coverage for its Sounder trains. The National Transportation Safety Board, which is investigating this week’s derailment, has long pushed for train-control systems, repeatedly citing the issue after deadly crashes. In 2008, Congress mandated that railroads use the computerized systems by the end of 2015. But, facing cost and implementation challenges, the industry convinced Congress to extend the deadline until the end of 2018. Accidents have continued to draw attention to the issue, and some have had speed similarities similar to Monday’s crash. In 2013, a Metro-North passenger train in New York derailed while traveling 82 mph at a curve where the maximum authorized speed was 30 mph, according to the NTSB, killing four people and injuring dozens. In 2015, an Amtrak passenger train in Philadelphia derailed while traveling 106 mph around a curve where the speed was restricted to 50 mph, according to the NTSB, killing eight people and injuring many more. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: Electric train on December 22, 2017, 19:45:31 This youtube video has some interesting clips and photos and a segment on "PTC" we would call it ETCS level 2.
You'll have to excuse the presenter he is American, a youtuber and not a professional reporter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv8PEG0hcbQ Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: grahame on December 23, 2017, 00:50:41 The personal story of someone who was on the train ...
https://transitsleuth.com/2017/12/21/the-story-on-amtrak-cascades-train-501-derailment/amp/ Long piece - but worth taking the time to read to learn how things panned out ... Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: grahame on December 23, 2017, 07:38:12 The personal story of someone who was on the train ... https://transitsleuth.com/2017/12/21/the-story-on-amtrak-cascades-train-501-derailment/amp/ Long piece - but worth taking the time to read to learn how things panned out ... The American way of accident investigation in the open leads to a further drip out of evidence of what went wrong to the media. https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonwells/amtrak-engineer-knew-train-was-going-too-fast http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5207893/Curve-emergency-brakes-played-role-Amtrak-crash.html Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: SandTEngineer on December 23, 2017, 10:22:00 Oh dear......
Quote The train was equipped with Positive Train Control, a technology that uses GPS to monitor and automatically slow trains down in potentially dangerous situations, but the system had not yet been certified for use, officials said. I wonder why? Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: Electric train on December 23, 2017, 16:22:52 This youtube video is of the commissioning runs 7 Dec 17. The interesting thing to look for is the "bogies" under the coaches, they are an articulated type nothing unusual although not used in the UK except Eurostar 373. Its still usual to see twin axel bogies supporting the 2 carriage's, however if you look at the youtube video you will notice a single axel supporting 2 carriages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zv3dSuarXE The initial reports indicate excessive speed some 50 mph over the limit as the cause, I do wonder if the single axel contributed to the magnitude of the derailment also the fact there was a 120 ton plus locomotive attached to the rear. I am sure the USA TSB will look to see if the above added to the accident Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: stuving on December 23, 2017, 17:32:11 This youtube video is of the commissioning runs 7 Dec 17. The interesting thing to look for is the "bogies" under the coaches, they are an articulated type nothing unusual although not used in the UK except Eurostar 373. Its still usual to see twin axel bogies supporting the 2 carriage's, however if you look at the youtube video you will notice a single axel supporting 2 carriages. The initial reports did say the carriages were made by Talgo, so the use of what is their signature design feature isn't a surprise. They are longer than the original Spansih ones, though. Quote The initial reports indicate excessive speed some 50 mph over the limit as the cause, I do wonder if the single axel contributed to the magnitude of the derailment also the fact there was a 120 ton plus locomotive attached to the rear. I am sure the USA TSB will look to see if the above added to the accident The fixed structural pivots of the articulated bogie (even with one axle) should hold the carriages upright much better than any coupling, though once the train concertinas that effect no longer operates over the full length of the train. The analysis after the "Polmont Cow" didn't support the idea that having a light trailer at the front made derailment easier, let alone that having mass at the rear would. I think the key point is whether and where the train concertinas, and that is due to the back overrunning the front. Once the lead carriages are running off the track they must slow down fast, probably much faster even than brakes can on the track. I suspect the mass of half a train pushing a carriage, when its front end is being pushed back and sideways by the half that's derailed and now slowing, would be enough to produce this kind of opposite-side derailment. After the Polmont Cow accident (I was living in Bo'ness, which is very close, in 1984) my thought was that having a heavy lead vehicle, which would decelerate slower than the trailers behind it, would be a good idea. That ought to pull the derailed part of the consist straight and so resist it concertaing, which at Polmont the leading DVT clearly didn't. Title: Re: Three killed in Washington USA train crash - 18 Dec 2017 Post by: SandTEngineer on December 24, 2017, 08:39:21 There is an interesting report from somebody aboard the derailed train: https://transitsleuth.com/2017/12/21/the-story-on-amtrak-cascades-train-501-derailment
Title: West Virginia train hits garbage truck - one killed Post by: grahame on January 31, 2018, 17:48:08 Yet another USA rail accident fatality :o ...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/train-carrying-members-congress-involved-accident/story?id=52741522 With many members of the US congress on the train, this will bring rather graphically the whole matter of rail safety to their notice ... Title: "two dead" in railway accident, South Carolina, USA. Post by: broadgage on February 04, 2018, 11:21:01 Early reports suggest two lives lost in a collision between a passenger train and a freight train.
These are very early reports and may later prove inaccurate. Source is BBC news website "breaking news" Edited to add slightly later and more detailed report. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42935764 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42935764) Title: Re: "two dead" in railway accident, South Carolina, USA. Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 04, 2018, 20:30:25 With thanks to broadgage for starting this latest, very sad, topic - it is now confirmed that the death toll is two.
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42935764): Quote South Carolina Amtrak crash: Two killed after trains collide An Amtrak train carrying 147 people has collided with a goods train in the US state of South Carolina, killing two people and injuring 116 others. The two fatalities were both members of Amtrak staff, South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster has confirmed. He said the incident - the latest in a series in recent years - should trigger a national debate about rail safety. Just four days ago, a lorry driver was killed when his vehicle hit a train carrying lawmakers in Virginia. The South Carolina crash happened at 02:35 local time (07:35 GMT) in the town of Cayce, just outside the state capital Columbia. The train was travelling from New York and heading for Miami, when it hit the goods train, causing its lead engine and several carriages to derail. Governor McMaster said it appeared the Amtrak train had been on the wrong track at the time of the crash. (https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/15B41/production/_99879888_6419f418-3cce-49df-adb7-1851a2b7307d.jpg) Officials are trying to find out what led to the collision The American Red Cross sent rescue workers to the scene of the collision, and emergency services say all passengers have been evacuated from the train. Mr McMaster said 116 people were taken to hospital for treatment. An emergency official earlier told reporters the injuries ranged in severity from small scratches to broken bones. A shelter has been set up at a nearby school for passengers to get assistance. According to Amtrak, 139 passengers and eight staff members were aboard the train. According to Governor McMaster, no-one was aboard the goods train, run by freight operator CSX. He said it was stationary on track at the time of the crash. An estimated 5,000 gallons (22,000 litres) of fuel was spilled from the CSX train but emergency officials said there was no threat to the public. "The incident is very near the state farmers' market and other residential areas but right now, everyone is safe," Derrec Becker, a spokesman at for the state emergency department, said. One passenger, Derek Pettaway, told CNN he had been travelling from Philadelphia to Orlando in a sleeper cabin when he had been awoken by the impact of the crash. The train's staff evacuated passengers in a "really calm fashion", he said. (https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/5E21/production/_99879042_ussouthcarolinacayce9760218.jpg) The National Transportation Safety Board said it was investigating the incident. President Donald Trump was briefed on the incident and tweeted that his thoughts and prayers were with the victims. South Carolina senator Tim Scott wrote on Twitter: "My prayers are with the families of those killed in the train crash in Lexington County this morning, and hoping for the best for all those injured. South Carolina is with you all!" Concerns about safety standards on the US rail network have been raised after a number of fatal train crashes in recent years: - February 2018: Crozet, Virginia. A lorry driver died after his vehicle hit a chartered Amtrak train carrying Republican lawmakers, including House Speaker Paul Ryan - December 2017: Seattle, Washington. Three people killed when a passenger train plunged off a bridge after hitting a 30mph (50km/h) curve at 80mph - March 2017 - Biloxi, Mississippi. Four people died when the bus they were travelling in got stuck on train tracks and was hit by a freight train - May 2015 - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. A passenger train derailed, killing eight people - January 2015 - Austin, Texas. A prison bus carrying 12 inmates and three officers skidded off a bridge and hit a freight train, killing 10 people on the bus - December 2013 - The Bronx, New York City. Four people died when the driver of a passenger train fell asleep and the train took a 30mph curve at 82mph, then derailed Title: Re: "two dead" in railway accident, South Carolina, USA. Post by: grahame on February 04, 2018, 21:36:19 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42938148)
Quote South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster said the incident should "begin a conversation" about rail safety. The conversation should have begun a long time ago ... Title: USA - railways, services and incidents (merged posts) Post by: grahame on November 16, 2018, 19:43:19 From West Palm Beach TV (my usual Friday evening channel - NOT) at https://www.wptv.com/news/state/brightline-virgin-form-strategic-partnership
Quote Brightline, Virgin form strategic partnership; Brightline will be called Virgin Trains USA Brightline has announced that it has formed a strategic partnership and trademark licensing agreement with the Virgin Group. It says the agreement will establish a new brand and will rename itself Virgin Trains USA this month. Virgin will make a minority investment in Brightline, which will still be managed and operated by Brightline’s executive team as well as affiliates of Fortress Investment Group, the rail service said. “Virgin has built a respected and trusted brand in travel and hospitality. With our shared focus on customer experience, powered by a culture of innovation and disruption, we are well positioned to build on our success," Brightline Chairman Wes Edens said in a statement. Brightline is operating in Palm Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade counties and has been considering a stop on the Treasure Coast. It also has plans to expand into Orlando and Tampa. Title: Another USA train wreck? Post by: grahame on November 17, 2018, 20:16:24 From Sky News (https://news.sky.com/story/dozens-of-carriages-fall-on-to-highway-after-train-derails-in-georgia-11556779)
Quote Up to 30 carriages have fallen on to a highway in Georgia after a train derailed on a bridge, according to US authorities. The entire population of Byromville - about 500 people - was evacuated following the accident, which happened at around 7am local time. Operator CSX Railroad has confirmed that the train had 72 loaded carriages and 69 empty ones. No injuries have been reported but several roads have been closed in the area, with traffic being diverted as police assess the damage. I am translating from American as I read this and changing "Carriages" to "Wagons". Title: Re: Another USA train wreck? Post by: Electric train on November 17, 2018, 20:26:56 http://time.com/5458065/georgia-evacuated-train-derailment/ (http://time.com/5458065/georgia-evacuated-train-derailment/)
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article221830850.html (https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article221830850.html) Title: Cost overrun of high sped line - California Style Post by: grahame on November 27, 2018, 17:08:51 From Supply Management (https://www.cips.org/en-GB/supply-management/news/2018/november/contract-management-must-improve-on-bullet-train-to-nowhere/)
Quote A lack of contractor control has been blamed in an auditor’s report for California’s bullet train project seeing billions of dollars of cost overruns and significant delays. In a report state auditor Elaine Howle said the California High‑Speed Rail Authority, in an effort to beat deadlines for spending federal grant funds, began awarding contracts long before it had finished planning or assessing potential risks to cost and schedule. And a lack of oversight of contractors was firmly blamed for pushing up costs at the project which, while it has secured $28bn in funding, is now anticipated to cost a likely $77bn. The train has been mooted as an alternative to expanding airports and building new freeways to meet growing demand, especially for travel between the state’s key areas such as Silicon Valley and the Central Valley as well as San Francisco and Los Angeles. But delays and cost overruns have led to it being dubbed “the bullet train to nowhere”. [Article Continues] How do the California figures compare to major electrification and high speed projects in the UK ... in total terms, and in per-mid terms? Title: Re: Cost overrun of high sped line - California Style Post by: Noggin on November 27, 2018, 22:56:46 From Supply Management (https://www.cips.org/en-GB/supply-management/news/2018/november/contract-management-must-improve-on-bullet-train-to-nowhere/) Quote A lack of contractor control has been blamed in an auditor’s report for California’s bullet train project seeing billions of dollars of cost overruns and significant delays. In a report state auditor Elaine Howle said the California High‑Speed Rail Authority, in an effort to beat deadlines for spending federal grant funds, began awarding contracts long before it had finished planning or assessing potential risks to cost and schedule. And a lack of oversight of contractors was firmly blamed for pushing up costs at the project which, while it has secured $28bn in funding, is now anticipated to cost a likely $77bn. The train has been mooted as an alternative to expanding airports and building new freeways to meet growing demand, especially for travel between the state’s key areas such as Silicon Valley and the Central Valley as well as San Francisco and Los Angeles. But delays and cost overruns have led to it being dubbed “the bullet train to nowhere”. [Article Continues] How do the California figures compare to major electrification and high speed projects in the UK ... in total terms, and in per-mid terms? Dunno but it was possibly not helped by the absence until recently of Federal standards for high-speed rail, which has perhaps had an impact, not to mention that there's no supply chain for such construction. A more directly comparable project is the CalTrain modernisation/electrification - US$2bn for 82km of PTC and electrification, and a few new Stadler double-deck EMUs. Makes the GWML seem like a bargain, doesn't it? Title: A comparison (?) from Ohio Post by: grahame on January 06, 2019, 05:18:27 Came across a series of interesting transport projects no longer in use ... including some that never made it into use, at Urban Ghost Media (https://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2015/01/10-abandoned-railways-underground-elevated-funicular/10/)
Quote Cincinnati seems an unlikely place for anything to be kept a secret, let alone the largest abandoned subway system in the United States. But that’s exactly what lurks beneath the streets of this inoffensive Ohio town: a vast network of abandoned tunnels and half-finished stations testifying to one of the city’s many long-lost dreams. Cincinnati is a little larger than Plymouth and considerably smaller than Bristol ... Title: Re: A comparison (?) from Ohio Post by: rogerpatenall on January 06, 2019, 09:48:30 Exploring Cincinnati early one morning, I found myself inside the massive Riverfront stadium. A Janitor came over to see who I was. "What's the capacity?" I asked. "Well" he replied. "When it's full, of course". Ask a silly question. . .
Title: Re: A comparison (?) from Ohio Post by: TaplowGreen on January 06, 2019, 10:04:12 Came across a series of interesting transport projects no longer in use ... including some that never made it into use, at Urban Ghost Media (https://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2015/01/10-abandoned-railways-underground-elevated-funicular/10/) Quote Cincinnati seems an unlikely place for anything to be kept a secret, let alone the largest abandoned subway system in the United States. But that’s exactly what lurks beneath the streets of this inoffensive Ohio town: a vast network of abandoned tunnels and half-finished stations testifying to one of the city’s many long-lost dreams. Cincinnati is a little larger than Plymouth and considerably smaller than Bristol ... Don't tempt Tudor Evans. Title: Re: A comparison (?) from Ohio Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 06, 2019, 11:21:16 Don't USA cities have a lot more autonomy, both in planning and finance, than their UK equivalents? It might be interesting to compare the geology as well.
Title: Re: A comparison (?) from Ohio Post by: ellendune on January 06, 2019, 18:18:54 Don't USA cities have a lot more autonomy, both in planning and finance, than their UK equivalents? It might be interesting to compare the geology as well. Local Authorities almost everywhere have more more autonomy, both in planning and finance, than their UK equivalents! I remember explaining to someone in a European local authority the powers of the Welsh Assembly (when it was first formed) and he was amazed that his local authority had more pwers than that! Title: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: Lee on January 26, 2019, 08:34:35 Officials say the Solari board has grown obsolete. The removal is part of a modernization plan for the station - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-6634307/Last-stop-train-stations-flipping-departures-board.html
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: Red Squirrel on January 26, 2019, 11:10:10 Did anyone else detect a not-so-subtle bias in that article? The close-up photo shows departures running 3hrs and 90 mins late, whilst the wide shot shows a long list of trains that are 'On time' or 'Boarding'...
Title: US cold "snap" Post by: Clan Line on January 31, 2019, 11:18:23 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-47066018/polar-vortex-fire-used-to-melt-ice-on-chicago-train-tracks
Hope they haven't got creosoted wooden sleepers ! Title: Re: US cold "snap" Post by: broadgage on January 31, 2019, 12:20:07 It would never be allowed over here. The designer trainers worn by trespassers could be damaged !
We used to have gas heated points in the UK, and some may still exist, usually worked from propane bottles beside the track, but sometimes mains gas was used. I don't recall the UK types producing large luminous flames, small blue flames that were not noticed unless specifically looked for. Theft of the gas bottles was a major problem, or explosion thereof if fire broke out from some un-related cause. Title: Re: US cold "snap" Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 31, 2019, 13:19:45 A quick google says the minimum temperature ever recorded in the UK was -27.2°C on 30 December 1995. Even -5 is rare enough. Somewhat different from Chicago.
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 31, 2019, 13:24:38 The second photo makes it look as if the board is obscuring the ornate columns (sorry, not sure if they're Corinthian, Ionic or Doric!) but from the third shot it's clear they're not. Anyway, my view is that it's just an information board and if there are now better ways of displaying that information (complying with the ADA) then the best place for fans of old tech to see the board is in a museum.
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: grahame on January 31, 2019, 13:38:48 I confess - I'm sad to see the Solari / flipping boards go; I remember seeing them as a new wonder in Euston in - what - the 1960s, with the magic appearance of train as all the leaf sections in a column started to flip and in a handful of seconds most of them had stopped ... others carrying on till the column was complete leaving, magically, a complete train. And then, as trains departed, the left most column cleared and each of the others moves / flipped up in turn. I believe they replaced even older punched card / technical systems - vague recollections of those at Victoria, with a wooden walkway along the front, fenced off almost like a church pew in which the team operating the board scurried up and down pulling levels and placing cards to rotate slats showing station names high above to passenger looking for their trains.
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: bobm on January 31, 2019, 14:52:37 I can remember watching them flipping over and catching a brief glimpse of a station name where regular services no longer called before settling on the correct information.
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: Richard Fairhurst on January 31, 2019, 16:15:08 For those with a yen for such things, I built this a good few years ago: http://www.charlbury.info/departures/
It requires Flash so won't work on phones, and indeed most desktop browsers will be sniffy these days. Like the Philly one, it's due to be decommissioned in the next day or so. (I'm moving the Charlbury website to a new server.) But there do appear to be a few open-source Javascript implementations - grahame, are you tempted to rig one up to your lovely new departure boards here? ;D Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: Red Squirrel on January 31, 2019, 16:45:04 ...not sure if they're Corinthian, Ionic or Doric Emphatically Corinthian. I'll never forget walking into a London terminus some time in the early 80's, a little later and possibly worse for wear and tear than I should have been, and watching such a board tick a few times and then change from being full of detail that I had not had time to digest to completely and resolutely blank. Quite dispiriting. Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: grahame on January 31, 2019, 17:37:55 For those with a yen for such things, I built this a good few years ago: http://www.charlbury.info/departures/ It requires Flash so won't work on phones, and indeed most desktop browsers will be sniffy these days. Like the Philly one, it's due to be decommissioned in the next day or so. (I'm moving the Charlbury website to a new server.) Good luck with the move Quote But there do appear to be a few open-source Javascript implementations - grahame, are you tempted to rig one up to your lovely new departure boards here? ;D Tempted ... but Javascript isn't my thing and I don't want to mix up the passenger-useful facilities in a heritage wrapper. I would be more tempted to chain the departure boards, but really I have too much on my plate for the next three weeks. Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: JayMac on January 31, 2019, 17:39:40 Quote Emphatically Corinthian. Yes, the column's capitals do suggest Corinthian. Which is a shame for my intended pun. Isn't it Ionic? So sang Alanis Morrisette. Title: Re: US cold "snap" Post by: ellendune on January 31, 2019, 19:34:32 We have the benefit that nowhere in the UK is very far from the sea, which removes some of the cold temperature extremes.
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: stuving on January 31, 2019, 19:40:13 I was thinking about where I've seen any recently, and the obvious answer is France - SNCF made something of a feature of them in their stations, usually up on the wall over the door to the platforms. But I'm struggling to find out how many bigger ones have been removed so far - Montparnasse came down in 2017, St Lazare had a big renovation not long ago and I suspect lost its one, but Gare du Nord may well be there still (someone must have been there last year). I was sure Nantes still had one in September, but I find my memory was wrong again (and it would have gone once the current rebuild is finished anyway).
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: Surrey 455 on January 31, 2019, 22:37:51 I confess - I'm sad to see the Solari / flipping boards go; I remember seeing them as a new wonder in Euston in - what - the 1960s, with the magic appearance of train as all the leaf sections in a column started to flip and in a handful of seconds most of them had stopped ... others carrying on till the column was complete leaving, magically, a complete train. And then, as trains departed, the left most column cleared and each of the others moves / flipped up in turn. I believe they replaced even older punched card / technical systems - vague recollections of those at Victoria, with a wooden walkway along the front, fenced off almost like a church pew in which the team operating the board scurried up and down pulling levels and placing cards to rotate slats showing station names high above to passenger looking for their trains. My memories as a youngster were mainly at Heathrow T1 & T2 departures and a vague memory (possibly imagined) at Paddington station. Title: Re: US cold "snap" Post by: Surrey 455 on January 31, 2019, 23:21:30 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-47066018/polar-vortex-fire-used-to-melt-ice-on-chicago-train-tracks Hope they haven't got creosoted wooden sleepers ! Not sure about the US but creosote is now a banned product in the UK. An EU directive I seem to recall. When used to protect sheds and fences the toxic chemicals seep into the soil, into your vegetables, then onto your dinner plate. Lovely. Title: Re: US cold "snap" Post by: JayMac on February 01, 2019, 05:58:27 Creosote was banned for sale to the general public for amateur DIY use, across the EU, in 2003. Legislation that the UK government was a signatory to. It remains legal to use by professionals and industry. It is primary UK legislation that now controls its use.
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: Reginald25 on February 01, 2019, 07:08:58 I still think the Solari indicators allowed the hurrying commuter a faster appreciation of when the next train to the required destination was running and which platform. I specially remember the board at Paddington when commuting from Reading in the 70s.
That said, the mechanical innards must have been a nightmare (and costly) to maintain, whereas the modern ones are throwaway modules. Perhaps the NRM should have a section of a display, now they are 'history'. Incidentally I'm old enough to remember the slot in destination boards at the ticket barrier at Welling, Kent, in the 60s. Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 01, 2019, 08:48:24 It's a shame the linked article didn't say in what way they fail to meet the Americans with Disabilities Act and how the new display will comply. I imagine it might be by providing some sort of audio link for the blind via Bluetooth or wifi, but it might be something else completely. It would also be informative to know if similar facilities are required under UK legislation and how they are provided.
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: martyjon on February 01, 2019, 09:40:22 .... Incidentally I'm old enough to remember the slot in destination boards at the ticket barrier at Welling, Kent, in the 60s. Yea, I remember them too but they were on the platforms at Bristol Temple Meads INCLUDING the blank one where the platform staff would chalk up with the destinations where they didn't have a specific one. I also remember the boards above the carriage windows showing the destinations including the named express title on titled trains. There was a wooden destinations board at Bath Green Park which sadly was already out of service during my visits to that station and I was surprised at the number of destinations that were served from there besides Bournemouth West. Broadstone, Templecombe, Evercreech Junction, Bristol Temple Meads, Gloucester Eastgate, Cheltenham Lansdown Road, Birmingham New Street, Manchester Mayfield, Sheffield Midland, Leeds City, Mangotsfield, Clifton Down, Avonmouth Docks to name a few I remember. I have never found a photograph of the board so if any forum member has one or can point me to a link to one I'd be more than grateful. Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: JayMac on February 01, 2019, 13:17:45 Destination/calling point finger boards were in use well into the 1980s at Taunton, and if my memory serves me correctly, in use at Weston-super-Mare into the 21st century.
Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: Surrey 455 on February 02, 2019, 10:54:21 Destination/calling point finger boards were in use well into the 1980s at Taunton, and if my memory serves me correctly, in use at Weston-super-Mare into the 21st century. Also still being used in the early 90s at Ealing Broadway Title: Re: New dog rule on New York Subway Post by: grahame on April 09, 2019, 18:43:21 From The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/09/new-york-city-subway-dog-rule-bags-denied)
Quote 'That's not a bag': man with dog bends New York subway rule and gets denied MTA rules state dogs must be ‘enclosed in a container’ but one conductor seems to think a dog in a sack pushes that definition In 2016, the Metro Transit Authority (MTA) in New York banned people from bringing their pets on the subway. The only exception was for animals “enclosed in a container and carried in a manner which would not annoy other passengers”. But New Yorkers love a loophole, and so while the MTA probably meant dogs carried in purpose-built crates, subway riders quickly got inventive with tote bags and rucksacks – pushing the law to its high-fashion limits. On Friday, however, a man found that he couldn’t quite squeeze his dog through the loophole. He was filmed by journalist Will Sabel Courtney on the subway platform at Carroll Street in Brooklyn, arguing with a train conductor about whether he was allowed to bring his dog onboard. The dog was in a burlap sack, which the man was able to hoist over his shoulder as if it was just another New Yorker tote, but the driver felt there wasn’t enough material to call it a bag. Title: Re: New dog rule on New York Subway Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 10, 2019, 00:49:44 Cue Finn. ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: New dog rule on New York Subway Post by: JayMac on April 10, 2019, 02:41:18 I've asked him.
Finn has no plans to ride the New York subway anytime soon. :D Title: Two and a half hours to Washington Post by: grahame on July 26, 2019, 15:58:56 From Business Traveller (https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/07/26/amtrak-to-launch-nonstop-acela-service-between-new-york-and-washington-dc/)
Quote Amtrak to launch nonstop Acela service between New York and Washington DC Rail travellers will soon be able to get from midtown Manhattan to the heart of Washington DC in just over two and a half hours. Amtrak announced this week the launch of Acela Nonstop, using its high-speed, business-travel oriented trains to provide direct service between Penn Station in New York City and Washington Union Station, just a few block from the US Capitol. The new service will begin on September 23, with weekday-only trains operating once daily from each of the nation’s two busiest rail terminals. The southbound train will depart New York’s Penn Station at 0635 and is scheduled to arrive in Washington a 0910. The northbound train will depart Union Station at 1630, and arrive at Penn at 1905. Reminds me of "three hours to Plymouth" ... the one crack train of the day. Historically, we had this with the "Cheltenham Spa Express" but such trains have now faded into the clock face for the most part, with a need to make best use of paths rather than clear out the line for the headliner. Are we headed back for the one super-fast train in December? Title: Re: Two and a half hours to Washington Post by: JontyMort on August 03, 2019, 20:48:03 From Business Traveller (https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/07/26/amtrak-to-launch-nonstop-acela-service-between-new-york-and-washington-dc/) Quote Amtrak to launch nonstop Acela service between New York and Washington DC Rail travellers will soon be able to get from midtown Manhattan to the heart of Washington DC in just over two and a half hours. Amtrak announced this week the launch of Acela Nonstop, using its high-speed, business-travel oriented trains to provide direct service between Penn Station in New York City and Washington Union Station, just a few block from the US Capitol. The new service will begin on September 23, with weekday-only trains operating once daily from each of the nation’s two busiest rail terminals. The southbound train will depart New York’s Penn Station at 0635 and is scheduled to arrive in Washington a 0910. The northbound train will depart Union Station at 1630, and arrive at Penn at 1905. Reminds me of "three hours to Plymouth" ... the one crack train of the day. Historically, we had this with the "Cheltenham Spa Express" but such trains have now faded into the clock face for the most part, with a need to make best use of paths rather than clear out the line for the headliner. Are we headed back for the one super-fast train in December? To be fair to Amtrak, this service is at least new, as opposed to an accelerated existing train. At present - amazingly, to our eyes - the first usable train from NY to DC is at 0903, and the last Acela back from Washington is at 1550 (admittedly there are later Regional Expresses). The distance is equivalent to London to Darlington or Lancaster. Title: Re: Two and a half hours to Washington Post by: grahame on August 04, 2019, 02:35:05 To be fair to Amtrak, this service is at least new, as opposed to an accelerated existing train. At present - amazingly, to our eyes - the first usable train from NY to DC is at 0903, and the last Acela back from Washington is at 1550 (admittedly there are later Regional Expresses). The distance is equivalent to London to Darlington or Lancaster. Passenger trains between cities any sort of distance apart in the USA are few and far between - with this "North West Corridor" from Washington DC up to New York with service on to Boston being one of the few where there's anything like a service offering any choice of trains. Albany to New York offers about a dozen trains a day as does San Diego to Los Angeles, but much more typical are cities far further apart and minimal service; the daily train (or eve trains on alternate days) is not uncommon, and certain lines such as Los Angeles to San Francisco have squeezed out the passenger trains completely from part(s) of the route - Thruway coaches take you from LA's Union Station to Bakersfield, then a train to near San Francisco and another road transfer in. There is one train a day via the slower coast line which reduces you to one bus transfer but the direct line is at capacity with long fright trains and a path at speeds that would be required by passengers is not to be had. Not amazing to my eyes ... but then I have been there and (at first) I was amazed. Cars and flying have rendered the trains very much a minority way of getting between cities across most of the USA. Title: Re: Two and a half hours to Washington Post by: JontyMort on August 04, 2019, 14:21:00 To be fair to Amtrak, this service is at least new, as opposed to an accelerated existing train. At present - amazingly, to our eyes - the first usable train from NY to DC is at 0903, and the last Acela back from Washington is at 1550 (admittedly there are later Regional Expresses). The distance is equivalent to London to Darlington or Lancaster. Passenger trains between cities any sort of distance apart in the USA are few and far between - with this "North West Corridor" from Washington DC up to New York with service on to Boston being one of the few where there's anything like a service offering any choice of trains. Albany to New York offers about a dozen trains a day as does San Diego to Los Angeles, but much more typical are cities far further apart and minimal service; the daily train (or eve trains on alternate days) is not uncommon, and certain lines such as Los Angeles to San Francisco have squeezed out the passenger trains completely from part(s) of the route - Thruway coaches take you from LA's Union Station to Bakersfield, then a train to near San Francisco and another road transfer in. There is one train a day via the slower coast line which reduces you to one bus transfer but the direct line is at capacity with long fright trains and a path at speeds that would be required by passengers is not to be had. Not amazing to my eyes ... but then I have been there and (at first) I was amazed. Cars and flying have rendered the trains very much a minority way of getting between cities across most of the USA. Indeed so. I'm currently having a lot of fun planning a trip next year - including the Lake Shore Limited and California Zephyr. Title: Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride Post by: grahame on January 18, 2020, 03:33:04 From NPR (https://www.npr.org/2020/01/17/797355136/amtrak-asks-two-people-in-wheelchairs-to-pay-25-000-for-a-ride)
Quote Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride It costs just $16 to buy a one-way ticket on the Amtrak train from Chicago to Bloomington, Ill., unless you're the two people who use wheelchairs and tried to buy tickets recently. They were told their tickets will cost not $16 — but $25,000. When Adam Ballard saw what Amtrak wanted to charge, he couldn't believe it. "I thought it was a mistake. That's the price of a car," Ballard says. "How can that be possible? I was sure it was a mistake. But I've seen it in writing. So I know it's not." Ballard works for a disability service and advocacy center in Chicago called Access Living. He is its housing and transportation policy analyst, and a group from his office is headed to Bloomington next Wednesday for a work retreat. There are 10 of them, and five — including Ballard — use wheelchairs. Their train has three cars. Each car has one space for a wheelchair. That makes three spaces for five people in wheelchairs. In the past, when Access Living gave advance notice that it was sending a large group, Amtrak took out more seats to fit more wheelchairs. Once, it took out seats in the dining car and charged a few hundred dollars extra. [snip] On Dec. 30, an Amtrak agent for group sales based in Philadelphia wrote: "I received a cost regarding the removal of seats and I've been advised this will be over $25 K. Would you like for me to proceed with the request?" Someone from the group wrote back: "Am I reading this correctly?" The answer came back on Jan. 2. "The cost is correct," the agent wrote, citing a new policy for taking out those seats. The agent explained that it's expensive to take out extra seats and that it means taking a car out of service. "With removal of seats, it can be quite costly," the agent wrote. "In previous years, the removal of seats from the coach cars incurred fees that Amtrak absorbed ... We understand and appreciate your loyalty with Amtrak. Going forward, we cannot continue to absorb these fees. These polices have changed nationwide as of 2019." [Article continues] Title: Re: Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride Post by: rogerw on January 18, 2020, 11:44:22 Bad as that is, I wonder what the response would have been in this country as few, if any, trains have space for 5 wheelchairs
Title: Re: Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride Post by: TaplowGreen on January 18, 2020, 17:52:02 Bad as that is, I wonder what the response would have been in this country as few, if any, trains have space for 5 wheelchairs I guess the question is, does it constitute a "reasonable adjustment"? Title: Re: Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride Post by: PhilWakely on January 18, 2020, 18:27:51 Bad as that is, I wonder what the response would have been in this country as few, if any, trains have space for 5 wheelchairs A couple of years back, my nephew and several friends wanted to cycle the Devon 'Coast to Coast' path, starting at Plymouth. They were obviously unable to book all their bikes on the same service. It was suggested - and accepted - that they booked their bikes on following services and meet up at Plymouth. Not quite the same as a group of wheelchair users, but probably the best way forward depending upon the occasion. Title: Re: Amtrak Asks Two People Who Use Wheelchairs To Pay $25,000 For A Ride Post by: Richard Fairhurst on January 18, 2020, 18:33:18 A less frequent service between Chicago and Bloomington than between Barnstaple and Plymouth, though!
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/timetables/Illinois-Missouri-Services-Schedule-091317.pdf Title: USA - railways and incidents (merged posts) Post by: grahame on February 18, 2020, 21:39:02 From the Daily Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-8017127/1-person-dead-high-speed-train-hits-car-Florida.html)
Quote POMPANO BEACH, Fla. (AP) - One person died Tuesday morning when a car was hit by a high speed train in South Florida, officials said. The Brightline train, which operates between Miami and West Palm Beach, struck the car at an intersection in Pompano Beach about 10:12 a.m. Tuesday, said sheriff's spokeswoman Gerdy St. Louis. One person was confirmed dead. Witnesses to the crash said the vehicle went around the guard rails, a Brightline spokesman told The Associated Press. More than 40 people have been killed by the train, which travels at speeds up to 79 mph (127 kph) through some of Florida's most densely populated cities, according to records. An analysis of data by The Associated Press in December found the death rate is about one for every 29,000 miles (47,000 kilometers) the trains have traveled, which is the worst per-mile death rate of the nation's 821 railroads. A sobering statistic ... has me wondering what the UK figure is. Noting the figure quoted relates to all deaths and not just passenger deaths which are minuscule in the overall total. Title: Re: USA / Railroad death rate Post by: eightf48544 on February 19, 2020, 10:37:38 Does it include staff deaths?
Title: Re: USA / Railroad death rate Post by: TonyK on February 20, 2020, 11:01:50 I've had a look at ORR's statistics for 2018-19. (https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/passenger-rail-usage/) From these, we see that:
To give the UK equivalent of the Florida statistic, there is one fatality on average every 454,683 Km (282,527 miles) travelled by a train. Taking suicides from the calculation, there is one death every 5,189,655 Km (3,224,702 miles). That makes the incidence around a tenth of the Florida number if suicides are included or less than one percent if they are not. 2018/19 was the 12th successive year without a single fatality of a passenger on a train on the national rail network or London Underground, the last being the Pendolino accident at Grayrigg. Title: Re: Last stop for Philadelphia train station's flipping departures board Post by: JayMac on February 26, 2020, 03:18:02 Solari boards have also largely disappeared from airports too. One survivor, at Singapore Changhi Airport, is being decommissioned today, 26th February 2020.
News report, including video footage of the board on operation: BBC News - Solari boards: The disappearing sound of airports https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51470599 Title: How U.S. Public Transit Can Survive Coronavirus Post by: grahame on April 27, 2020, 09:05:32 A view from City Lab (https://www.citylab.com/perspective/2020/04/coronavirus-public-transit-ridership-federal-funding-bus-subways/610453/) - posted to The Coffee Shop because there are many global lessons and suggests. What will work for Sacramento may work for Bristol. What will work for Baton Rouge may work for Bath.
Quote Subway and bus systems in the U.S. face financial peril as ridership collapses due to lockdowns. To keep transit alive, here’s a playbook for immediate and long-term fixes. Public transportation has been in a state of crisis since the coronavirus pandemic began. Ridership in major cities in the U.S., Europe and China is down by 50-90% from pre-crisis levels. ... [snip] But there is a way forward. We offer these pathways for saving transit, immediately and into the future. What to do now [snip] What to plan over the next year [snip] Short-term cuts deployed to save transit agencies money during a crisis should not become permanent once the crisis is over. [snip] Big, structural change is needed [snip] As transit agencies struggle to find their footing in an uncertain future with dramatically less revenue from the usual sources, it’s time to rethink how transit agencies operate and are funded. If agencies reassess their priorities and push forward ambitious plans to reorient cities around their systems, with the assistance of the federal government, buses and subways can thrive when the country is ready to return to regular service. Title: Amtrak looks for support through Coronavirus Post by: grahame on May 28, 2020, 05:58:27 From Reuters (https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-finance-breakingvi/breakingviews-corona-capital-hockey-hbo-minority-businesses-idUKKBN23334I)
Quote DERAILED. Amtrak, America’s perennially beleaguered passenger-rail operator, is asking for an extra $1.5 billion of government support to get it through Covid-19. The provider of lucrative Washington-New York-Boston services also runs a network of often slow and money-sucking routes elsewhere. As recently as February, Amtrak was on course for its first-ever breakeven year, boss Bill Flynn told officials in a letter on Monday. Even then, he was asking Congress for $2 billion based on the rail group’s annual assessment of its needs. Faced with empty trains in the short term and a projected 50% decline in ridership for the coming fiscal year, Amtrak now needs more. The administration of President Donald Trump has previously suggested breaking it up; on the other hand, given sufficient resources, trains might be better placed than planes to offer travel with social distancing. Amtrak’s always cloudy future is more uncertain than ever. (By Richard Beales) Title: The USA votes... Post by: Red Squirrel on November 05, 2020, 09:47:09 ...but they didn't only vote for which old white man was going to try to run the country for the next few years!
It's a feature of US elections that people also get to vote on a raft of other things too. Last night: Austin, Texas voted for a USD7.5 billion property tax plan, including new light rail lines (https://www.capmetro.org/project-connect) a downtown tunnel, BRT, and park and rides. Denver, Colorado voted for 1/4-cent 'climate change' sales tax (https://coloradosun.com/2020/10/22/denvers-unique-sales-tax-to-fight-climate-change-could-be-a-blueprint-for-future-action-nationwide/) to fund climate-focused initiatives, including potential transit investments. Fairfax, Virginia voted for $160 m in bonds (https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/bond/sites/bond/files/assets/documents/pdf/2020-transportation-bond-explanation.pdf) to support local funding for Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority - the DC metro. Title: Re: The USA votes... Post by: grahame on November 05, 2020, 10:55:58 Denver, Colorado voted for 1/4-cent 'climate change' sales tax (https://coloradosun.com/2020/10/22/denvers-unique-sales-tax-to-fight-climate-change-could-be-a-blueprint-for-future-action-nationwide/) to fund climate-focused initiatives, including potential transit investments. However ... Quote To reduce the burden of the tax, the measure would not apply to purchases of food, water, fuel, medical supplies and feminine hygiene products. ... which strikes me as something of a mixed message ...Title: Re: The USA votes... Post by: ellendune on November 05, 2020, 22:21:35 Meanwhile over here local authorities cannot even raise the one tax central government allow them to levy by more than a small percentage and must rely on ever decreasing grants from central government.
What a very different world. Title: Re: The USA votes... Post by: Western Pathfinder on November 05, 2020, 23:08:47 Trump. 215
Byden . 254 Intercity. 125. Title: Re: The USA votes... Post by: grahame on November 08, 2020, 12:57:55 Biden now over the line ... and it would appear by sufficient a margin to stand up to any unorthodox challenges. With a partner who's an immigrant to the UK from the USA, but retains ties, we have been following the long and complex process that's been going on with more than a degree or two of interest; American politics has become very ugly indeed. But we are a public transport forum, so little of that from me here.
But ... from an article that's six months old (https://www.marieclaire.com/politics/a32363173/joe-biden-amtrak-joe-meaning/) ... did you know the Joe Biden's nickname is "Amtrak Joe" Quote [Amtrak] has been his primary mode of transportation to his work as a politician in Washington, D.C. and back home to Delaware, where he and his current wife reside. It started because of tragedy, but over time he became a huge proponent of trains during his time as a senator and subsequently vice president. It's become an indelible part of his life and work. So how did Joe become "Amtrak Joe," and why is it so significant to understanding who he is? and ... Quote Biden's apparently traveled over 2 million miles, the equivalent of four years of his life, on Amtrak. He's a huge advocate for rail travel, facilitating over $2 billion loan in 2016 to help them update trains and stations. He even blogged to Huffington Post about why America needs trains. In it, he talk about the importance of Amtrak to his life. "It has provided me another family entirely?a community of dedicated professionals who have shared the milestones in my life, and who have allowed me to share the milestones in theirs." Joe Biden has had more tragedy and misfortune thrown at him than most of us could even imagine, and for sure that has been significant in shaping the man. Elements of our press suggest that Trump rather than Biden would have been best for the UK, bearing in mind similarities in outlook between the UK and USA leaders, whereas the new team in Washington finds itself closer to the Eurpoean systems (and thus Europe) and does not consider our decision to leave Europe to have been a good one. But having noted that ... his approach and direction seems so much better aligned with sustainable transport and climate objectives than the chap who's finishing his four years, and his henchmen. Title: Re: The USA votes... Post by: JontyMort on November 08, 2020, 18:51:24 Biden now over the line ... But did you know the Joe Biden's nickname is "Amtrak Joe" Yes, I did. During the course of my research for a trip to the US next September (originally this September) I came across this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_ACS-64#/media/File:Cities_Sprinter_cab.jpg To be fair, therefore, his green credentials are not bad at all by US standards. Amtrak will probably be well pleased at his election. Title: Re: The USA votes... Post by: JontyMort on November 08, 2020, 21:55:14 Biden now over the line ... But did you know the Joe Biden's nickname is "Amtrak Joe" Yes, I did. During the course of my research for a trip to the US next September (originally this September) I came across this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_ACS-64#/media/File:Cities_Sprinter_cab.jpg To be fair, therefore, his green credentials are not bad at all by US standards. Amtrak will probably be well pleased at his election. Actually those ACS-64s look pretty competent machines. That said, they need to re-equip the North East Corridor with coaching stock that will work in push-pull mode. The locomotives will, but they don?t have stock with Driving Van Trailers. Title: Huge fire after truck and train collide, Texas USA. Post by: broadgage on March 04, 2021, 20:05:59 Reports state and video shows huge fire after collision, rail tank wagon was carrying petrol.
No serious injuries reported. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56117353 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56117353) Edited to correct link. Title: Re: Huge fire after truck and train collide, Texas USA. Post by: ChrisB on March 04, 2021, 20:10:40 Have you used the correct URL there - that's a truck sliding off a road and no fire?
Title: Re: Huge fire after truck and train collide, Texas USA. Post by: broadgage on March 04, 2021, 20:39:02 Have you used the correct URL there - that's a truck sliding off a road and no fire? No it was the wrong link, about an unrelated incident. Now corrected. Sorry to spread confusion. Title: "A once in a generation investment in America's railroads" Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 05, 2021, 01:38:47 Quote The train rumbles through the darkness along Pennsylvania’s southern edge before curving north towards Pittsburgh. It’s the middle of the night, and the sleeper cabins are lulled by the low hum of the engine and a rhythmic click-clacking from the tracks below. Continues... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/pete-buttigieg-south-bend-amtrak-transport-b1812129.htmlThese pleasant noises are interrupted every now and then by the blast of the train’s horn and the clanging bells of a crossing guard as we barrel through one small town after another. Their street lights flicker through the cabins for a moment before the darkness and the low hum returns. Long-distance rail travel in America today is for romantics. Taking this old train between Washington DC and Chicago isn’t the fastest, the cheapest, or even the most comfortable way to get between the two cities. To travel this way, you have to love these sounds, or at least have plenty of time to kill. Pete Buttigieg, the new transport secretary, is one of those romantics. But he has nonetheless expressed a desire to drag this country’s rail system into the 21st century. Americans, he says, “have been asked to settle for less” when it comes to rail travel. He advocates massive investment to build high-speed rail and upgrade existing regional lines, and he has the full support of ‘Amtrak Joe’ Biden, perhaps the most train-friendly president in US history. Title: Re: Huge fire after truck and train collide, Texas USA. Post by: grahame on March 08, 2021, 09:20:00 From the Web Socialist Web Site (https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/03/08/bnsf-m08.html) - stats on USA train safety triggered (earlier in the article, not quoted) by two more incidents.
Quote According to the US Department of Transportation’s Federal Railroad Administration, there were 21,061 accidents involving BNSF between 1996—when BNSF was established by the merging of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway and Burlington Northern Railroad—and 2020. Over the last 25 years, BNSF has been involved in 3,102 fatalities, including 82 employee-on-duty deaths, and 25,031 other injuries, involving a staggering 15,903 employees. When all other American rail companies are included, the total number of accidents jumps to 126,420 between 1996 and 2020, with 21,148 fatalities and 236,329 injuries, including 492 employee deaths and 136,464 employee injuries. The number of accidents, fatalities, and injuries in the US compared to the total amount of rail miles traveled exceeds those of most other highly industrialized nations. While there undoubtedly are several factors that have led to this carnage, a determining cause has been the deregulation of the rail industry coupled with a lack of extensive rail modernization and investment in safety protocols. Big country, higher numbers expected that in smaller ones ... but even taking that into account, the figures are really bad Title: Re: Huge fire after truck and train collide, Texas USA. Post by: eightonedee on March 08, 2021, 18:57:05 At the risk of showing a ghoulish interest in the figures in this article, they beg a number of questions.
The most striking is the number of non-employee fatalities - of the 3,102 fatalities in 25 years for this company 3020 are non-employees, and of the 21,148 fatalities on the US rail system 20,656 were non-employees. What is happening? It does not seem to be primarily an employment issue (although the number of employee victims at about 20 a year for the whole US is not good - the UK seems to be about 2 to 3 a year on average). From the ORR website, sadly suicides are the largest proportion of deaths on the UK rail system, at between 200-300 a year. This is a terrible toll, not only for the families of the deceased but the employees and emergency services involved in the incidents and their aftermaths. Does this though account for the lion's share of the US figures too? A visit to the following web address - https://www.bts.gov/content/transportation-fatalities-mode indicates that most fatalities are crossing deaths (showing a reduction form about 500 a year to 2-300 later on, but with the improvement stalled in recent years) and trespassers (a steady 400-500 a year). This doesn't quite fit the WSWS agenda, does it? Title: Re: Huge fire after truck and train collide, Texas USA. Post by: stuving on March 08, 2021, 20:19:14 The BTS refer to the FRA (http://safetydata.fra.dot.gov/OfficeofSafety/) for more detail, but I'm struggling to get much sense out of there. It's as bad as the Belgian State Archives, which I was grappling with earlier today (though at least it's all in one language). The closest I can find is a database query that gives detailed tables, but only per year rather than aggregated. But certainly the numbers are dominated by grade crossings and trespassers/suicides, outweighing employees by about 100:1.
Title: Re: Huge fire after truck and train collide, Texas USA. Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 08, 2021, 22:19:17 Just speculating really, but might the American statistics be as much a road safety problem as a rail safety one? Certainly Youtube is full of videos (some cautionary, some dramatic, some ghoulish) of cars and trucks crashing into trains on American crossings. While some of them might be due to faulty signals and/or barriers, a lot of them show drivers ignoring the signals. American driving tests in many states are rather undemanding by UK or European standards and their HGVs in particular are designed in a way that doesn't facilitate vision. Plus, the way in which US trains mostly go over crossings very slowly, blowing their horns, might lull road users into a false sense of security when it comes to the few trains which go faster – as well as for those which are going slowly (because "look, it's so slow, even though the barriers are down there's still time to cross..."). And the lack of fencing might be a factor when it comes to trespassers.
Title: Freight train derailment in Iowa, USA. Post by: broadgage on May 17, 2021, 15:05:25 BBC report https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-57145192 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-57145192)
No injuries reported, perhaps surprisingly in view of the scale of destruction. There is a risk of explosion as some of the cargo was fertiliser, people nearby evacuated. Title: Re: Freight train derailment in Iowa, USA. Post by: stuving on May 17, 2021, 16:15:47 Well, the USA has a huge freight railway network, and a lot of it is pretty rough. Derailments are common, as are loads of hazardous materials. This one was only yesterday:
Quote About 28 train cars derailed Saturday afternoon along a rail line in Albert Lea, Minn., with cleanup efforts continuing Sunday. A Union Pacific Railroad spokesperson Saturday that said the train “was carrying mixed commodities; however, we have confirmed two of the derailed cars are leaking hydrochloric acid. Union Pacific is working with emergency responders to determine a response plan.” After initially issuing a shelter-in-place order for nearby residents as the scene was assessed, authorities later said there was no danger to the public. There were no injuries. Title: Re: Freight train derailment in Iowa, USA. Post by: CyclingSid on May 18, 2021, 07:46:36 On North America I think of the Mississauga Miracle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Mississauga_train_derailment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Mississauga_train_derailment) Amazingly no deaths. Title: "Americans don't understand passenger trains" Post by: grahame on May 23, 2021, 08:32:01 From YouTube - with an interesting comment that Americans love trains when they come to Europe, but have so few of them that when it comes to local votes they don't know enough about them to vote for appropriate rail projects.
Title: Re: "Americans don't understand passenger trains" Post by: Lee on May 23, 2021, 10:49:49 From YouTube - with an interesting comment that Americans love trains when they come to Europe, but have so few of them that when it comes to local votes they don't know enough about them to vote for appropriate rail projects. it is interesting...I remember my fondness for the French way of life being fed when I started visiting as a young man and travelling on a public transport system that joined together so much better than back in the UK, and already had ultra-modern to us but well-established to them elements such as high-speed rail that we could only dream of back then, and still only have largely as a link to their system even now. Now that I live in France and work in that public transport system, it only makes me appreciate it even more. By contrast, Americans visiting the UK probably think that locals are living in a real-life version of one of those "quaint" classic British comedies, somewhere between The Titfield Thunderbolt and Oh, Doctor Beeching!... Title: Re: "Americans don't understand passenger trains" Post by: Electric train on May 24, 2021, 06:59:36 You have to think of the scale of the country and the fragmented federal system where each state has so much autonomy that investing in 200 mph high speed national rail is almost impossible.
A few years ago I was travelling on a train from Venice to Rome with a group that included a few Americans, they though that the 80 / 100 kph was fast as we travelled away from Venice when the train got on the the high speed line and was running over 300 kph their expression was wow Title: Re: "Americans don't understand passenger trains" Post by: broadgage on May 24, 2021, 12:40:59 I met an American family who felt that 25MPH on the West Somerset Railway was "too fast" for a "museum line" They seemed rather shocked when I told them that very similar rolling stock was still used at several times that speed on the main line.
The risk of colliding with another train distressed them and they seemed unconvinced by my explanations regarding interlocked signals making this almost impossible. They seemed convinced that where two trains cross at a station with two platforms, that only the timetable prevented accidents on the adjacent single line. I got the impression that most preserved lines in the USA have no signaling and are worked with only a single train. Title: Re: "Americans don't understand passenger trains" Post by: grahame on May 24, 2021, 18:08:23 I met an American family who felt that 25MPH on the West Somerset Railway was "too fast" for a "museum line" They seemed rather shocked when I told them that very similar rolling stock was still used at several times that speed on the main line. I hope you re-assured them that their train was only running as far as Bishops Lydeard, and not onto the section from there into Taunton where there have been three accidents with significant loss of life. Thank goodness lessons were learned in each case, and the close proximity of all three accidents was purely co-incidental. Title: Eight killed in San Jose, California rail yard shooting - 26 May 2021 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 26, 2021, 20:36:51 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57260869):
Quote San Jose shooting: Eight killed in California rail yard shooting (https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/152DC/production/_118684768_microsoftteams-image-3.png) A gunman has killed eight people at a commuter train yard in California, police say. The shooting took place at the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority rail yard in San Jose on Wednesday. Officials say the victims include transit employees and the suspect, a former employee, is also dead. The shooting broke out at 06:45 local time (14:45GMT), transit officials say. Authorities say they are checking the scene for explosive devices. San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo told reporters "this is a horrific day for our city. My attention will turn to ensuring this never happens again to our city." He added that one person succumbed to their injuries while being transported to hospital. A local CBS station reports that the shots broke out during an employee meeting for rail workers. Just before the shooting, a fire broke out at a home belonging to a Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority (VTA) employee, CBS reports. According to the LA Times, the suspect may have set his home on fire before embarking on the rampage, which authorities are looking into but have not confirmed. The suspect's age was not provided by authorities. The shooting shut down traffic on nearby streets during the morning commute. Trains will halt service at noon local time. Authorities said that a bomb squad is at the scene and searching for explosive devices but that there is no active threat to the public. They would not specify how many explosive devices had been found. San Jose Sherriff's Deputy Russell Davis emphasised that the investigation was active and ongoing. Authorities will give another update at 13:30 local time (21:30GMT). Railway president Glenn Hendricks told reporters that the attack "'happened on the yard but it did not happen in the operations control centre". California Governor Gavin Newsom tweeted: "We are in close contact with local law enforcement and monitoring this situation closely." Federal agents, including the FBI, are assisting in the investigation. Mayor Liccardo said he has spoken on the phone with Vice-president Kamala Harris - a Californian herself - and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. Across the US, there have been 230 mass shootings so far this year, according to the Gun Violence Archive. A mass shooting is defined by the group as a crime in which four or more people are fatally shot. The Santa Clara VTA operates three train lines, making up over 40 miles (65km) of rail. They also operate about 70 bus lines in the city. Title: Fire fighting from a train, USA. Post by: broadgage on July 22, 2021, 02:12:24 A forest fire being fought from atop a slowly moving train. A train of tank wagons can carry a vast amount of water if compared to aircraft or land vehicles.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-57922181 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-57922181) Title: Re: Fire fighting from a train, USA. Post by: broadgage on August 15, 2021, 22:23:33 And another one,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q218-5TWHXk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q218-5TWHXk) Title: Re: Fire fighting from a train, USA. Post by: TaplowGreen on August 16, 2021, 06:33:12 A forest fire being fought from atop a slowly moving train. A train of tank wagons can carry a vast amount of water if compared to aircraft or land vehicles. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-57922181 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-57922181) ......could be another use for your sleeper shower carriages if they carry enough water Broadgage? ;) Title: "worst ever" floods hit New York. Post by: broadgage on September 02, 2021, 11:03:41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTWuKt2mI3I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTWuKt2mI3I)
Metro largely closed, which is not surprising looking at above video. At least 9 lives lost, though this is due to the flooding in general, not metro related. Title: "Three dead" in derailment, Montana, USA. Post by: broadgage on September 26, 2021, 11:04:41 Various reports state, that the "Empire builder", a prestigious long distance train has derailed with the loss of three lives and dozens injured.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58696143 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58696143) Title: USA level crossing collision Post by: infoman on January 10, 2022, 06:10:55 Sky news are showing footage of a person being pulled from a light plane that made, I presume, an emergency landing on a road/level crossing area.
Person rescued just before a train smashed into the plane that had ended up on the railway level crossing. Title: Re: USA level crossing collision Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 10, 2022, 09:52:58 I was going to say, level crossing collisions are ten a penny in the USA – I read recently there's one every four hours – but a level crossing collision involving a plane is a bit unusual!
Title: Re: USA level crossing collision Post by: broadgage on January 10, 2022, 22:33:59 Dramatic video of this was shown on BBC TV news at about 22-25 this evening.
The pilot was dragged clear with only about one second to spare, the plane was damaged by the forced landing, and then totally destroyed by the train. Pilot injured but no other injuries reported. Title: Re: USA level crossing collision Post by: JayMac on January 11, 2022, 00:09:53 Link to the police bodycam video on the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59946362 Also, Air Traffic Control communication during the incident: There's also video circulating from an eyewitness. A very lucky eyewitness, who narrowly avoided serious injury from flying debris, following the collision between train and Cessna. Title: Gas heating of points, Chicago, USA. Post by: broadgage on January 29, 2022, 06:29:51 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60177979 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60177979)
Looks rather alarming ! And also far from efficient as most of the heat looks to be wasted in large luminous gas flames that heat the sky. The light output looks distracting to the train driver at night. Possibly a fire risk to any train that stops with flames underneath. Risk of igniting waste paper or leaves caught on the underframe ? Damage to rubber hoses or plastic insulated wires ? We used to use gas heating of points in the UK, and few installations may remain in use. These however used non luminous blue flames, carefully directed to the parts needing heating. Generally burning propane, but mains gas was used in a few places including Waterloo station. Electric heating of points is now the norm. Title: Re: Gas heating of points, Chicago, USA. Post by: JayMac on January 29, 2022, 07:16:18 This type of switch heating has been used for decades in cold climates. Inefficiency, rather than safety, is the main reason why it's becoming less common. If it weren't safe it wouldn't be used. This type of switch heating is always monitored locally by a human.
There's an alternative method that also uses propane. Gas is burned in a chamber next to the rails and a high pressure hot air blower feeds it to the switch through ducts and nozzles. These forced air systems can be controlled remotely or by temperature/precipitation sensors. Title: Re: Gas heating of points, Chicago, USA. Post by: Electric train on January 29, 2022, 07:37:04 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60177979 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60177979) Looks rather alarming ! And also far from efficient as most of the heat looks to be wasted in large luminous gas flames that heat the sky. The light output looks distracting to the train driver at night. Possibly a fire risk to any train that stops with flames underneath. Risk of igniting waste paper or leaves caught on the underframe ? Damage to rubber hoses or plastic insulated wires ? We used to use gas heating of points in the UK, and few installations may remain in use. These however used non luminous blue flames, carefully directed to the parts needing heating. Generally burning propane, but mains gas was used in a few places including Waterloo station. Electric heating of points is now the norm. There are according to a recent NR internal meeting I recently attended there are less than 5 sites on the National network operating on gas all LPG. Electric point heating on the UK National network has quite a clever control system, which has been in use for around for 30 years. There 'hot' and 'cold' rail temperature sensors which work in conjunction with a humidly sensor and some locations a blown snow sensor. Most installations have remote monitoring which detect if one on the heater strips has failed and report it back to the Route 'flight engineers' Title: Re: Gas heating of points, Chicago, USA. Post by: grahame on January 29, 2022, 08:00:52 There are according to a recent NR internal meeting I recently attended there are less than 5 sites on the National network operating on gas all LPG. Electric point heating on the UK National network has quite a clever control system, which has been in use for around for 30 years. There 'hot' and 'cold' rail temperature sensors which work in conjunction with a humidly sensor and some locations a blown snow sensor. Most installations have remote monitoring which detect if one on the heater strips has failed and report it back to the Route 'flight engineers' That is very interesting, thank you. Not asking you to name the 4 ( ? ;D ) sites - but can you comment on Bradford Junction, where the line towards Swindon has on occasions been put out of use in inclement weather when (it seems) all the other junctions up and down the line remain in service? Title: Re: Gas heating of points, Chicago, USA. Post by: Electric train on January 30, 2022, 07:50:27 There are according to a recent NR internal meeting I recently attended there are less than 5 sites on the National network operating on gas all LPG. Electric point heating on the UK National network has quite a clever control system, which has been in use for around for 30 years. There 'hot' and 'cold' rail temperature sensors which work in conjunction with a humidly sensor and some locations a blown snow sensor. Most installations have remote monitoring which detect if one on the heater strips has failed and report it back to the Route 'flight engineers' That is very interesting, thank you. Not asking you to name the 4 ( ? ;D ) sites - but can you comment on Bradford Junction, where the line towards Swindon has on occasions been put out of use in inclement weather when (it seems) all the other junctions up and down the line remain in service? Bradford Jcn is not on the list of gas heated points. There may be operational reasons elsewhere along the line that cause a problem, perhaps a turn back siding that does not have point heating Title: Re: Gas heating of points, Chicago, USA. Post by: paul7575 on January 30, 2022, 14:58:39 I can’t help feeling that the BBC probably ran the story on the basis of implying that Network Rail give up when it gets cold.
They probably never considered the possibility we’d moved on from that type of heating many years ago… Title: Re: Gas heating of points, Chicago, USA. Post by: broadgage on January 31, 2022, 07:01:24 Did we EVER use the type of gas points heating pictured in the O/P ?
I certainly recall gas heated points but these used non luminous blue flames, invisible in daylight and barely visible after dark. Usually propane burning, the metal mesh cages each containing four large propane cylinders were once a familiar sight beside the track. These propane cylinders had many other other uses and theft was a recurring problem. Also if fire broke out from some unrelated cause there was a risk of explosions. A few large installations used mains gas, including the approach to Waterloo station. Title: Re: Gas heating of points, Chicago, USA. Post by: Electric train on January 31, 2022, 21:46:59 Did we EVER use the type of gas points heating pictured in the O/P ? I certainly recall gas heated points but these used non luminous blue flames, invisible in daylight and barely visible after dark. Usually propane burning, the metal mesh cages each containing four large propane cylinders were once a familiar sight beside the track. These propane cylinders had many other other uses and theft was a recurring problem. Also if fire broke out from some unrelated cause there was a risk of explosions. A few large installations used mains gas, including the approach to Waterloo station. There was a mix of mains gas and propane. Paddington was all mains gas, it was not uncommon to see flames licking out of the ballast due to PVC pipes having holes and cracks. The gas being lit by the sparks from the brake blocks. The problem with gas heaters is the burners can get blown out by passing trains, PW staff could often be seen patrolling an area with a small propane bottle and gas torch to relight the burners. On the Southern they also have conrail heaters. The heating strips being powered by the 750V. They are place at certain signals and platforms and are between 50m and 100m long Title: 14th May 2022 - National (USA) train day - USA Post by: grahame on February 10, 2022, 08:57:12 National (USA) train day - USA
https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/train-day/ But do look out for one or two events in Wiltshire, co-incidentally, being planned for the same day! Title: Overnight homeless on the Subway - New York Post by: grahame on February 18, 2022, 21:28:01 From The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/18/new-york-city-removing-homeless-from-subways-at-night)
Quote New York City will begin removing homeless people from subways at night Mayor says public fear of subways is driving riders from the system and announces more mental health support to homeless A much most substantial issue than fare evasion - a symptom and it sounds from the rest of the article rather that they're treating the symptom much more that the issue itself, in spite of what the little bit I quoted says. We do have a rural homeless population, and one in towns and smaller cities here about, and the variety of cases as I understand it is that some are by choice, some are not, and some can't manage their choice. I do hope the handful of people who were on the street in Bath last night had some option of shelter before it turned really nasty. And then we have a substantial number of "sofa surfers" ... Title: Re: Overnight homeless on the Subway - New York Post by: grahame on February 18, 2022, 22:07:40 Or as the Daily Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-10529035/New-York-City-remove-homeless-subway.html) puts it
Quote New York leaders pledged Friday to clear homeless people from the city's subway following a spike in violence on the underground transit system since the start of the Covid-19 pandemic. Mayor Eric Adams said he was instructing police officers and social workers to remove anyone sheltering inside train cars and on station platforms. "The system was not made to be housing, it's made to be transportation," Adams, 61, told reporters. Homeless people sought refuge in the subway system after shelters closed at the height of the pandemic in spring 2020 and as workers stopped commuting to offices. Adams said police officers would work with outreach workers who would help take homeless people to shelters or towards hospital help if they appear mentally ill. Article continues. Also offers links if any of the following is of interest: Here Is What Full Mouth Dental Implants Should Cost You in Frome How Much Does It Cost To Hire A 24-Hour Live-In Carer in Frome? The Cost Of Hair Transplant In Frome Might Surprise You Single over 50 in Frome? See who's on Ourtime! Drink This Before Bed, Watch Your Belly Fat Vanish How much will it cost to replace your roof in 2022? Bowels: A Simple Trick To Empty Them Completely Title: Re: Overnight homeless on the Subway - New York Post by: Celestial on February 18, 2022, 22:53:12 Or as the Daily Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-10529035/New-York-City-remove-homeless-subway.html) puts it I do hope those adverts weren't personally targeted at you Grahame. Quote New York leaders pledged Friday to clear homeless people from the city's subway following a spike in violence on the underground transit system since the start of the Covid-19 pandemic. Mayor Eric Adams said he was instructing police officers and social workers to remove anyone sheltering inside train cars and on station platforms. "The system was not made to be housing, it's made to be transportation," Adams, 61, told reporters. Homeless people sought refuge in the subway system after shelters closed at the height of the pandemic in spring 2020 and as workers stopped commuting to offices. Adams said police officers would work with outreach workers who would help take homeless people to shelters or towards hospital help if they appear mentally ill. Article continues. Also offers links if any of the following is of interest: Here Is What Full Mouth Dental Implants Should Cost You in Frome How Much Does It Cost To Hire A 24-Hour Live-In Carer in Frome? The Cost Of Hair Transplant In Frome Might Surprise You Single over 50 in Frome? See who's on Ourtime! Drink This Before Bed, Watch Your Belly Fat Vanish How much will it cost to replace your roof in 2022? Bowels: A Simple Trick To Empty Them Completely Title: Re: Overnight homeless on the Subway - New York Post by: grahame on February 19, 2022, 08:16:50 Article continues. Also offers links if any of the following is of interest: I do hope those adverts weren't personally targeted at you Grahame. Here Is What Full Mouth Dental Implants Should Cost You in Frome How Much Does It Cost To Hire A 24-Hour Live-In Carer in Frome? The Cost Of Hair Transplant In Frome Might Surprise You Single over 50 in Frome? See who's on Ourtime! Drink This Before Bed, Watch Your Belly Fat Vanish How much will it cost to replace your roof in 2022? Bowels: A Simple Trick To Empty Them Completely If targeted, it was poor, I can assure you. I have just been out to check on damage from Storm Eunice, and can report just a few twigs down. We had repairs to a roof last year - not a full replacement, but that could be relevant in a decade or so. Title: Re: Overnight homeless on the Subway - New York Post by: broadgage on February 19, 2022, 11:57:02 I get very similar adverts, but with a different location.
Title: "Three dead" in train derailment, Missouri, USA 27/06/2022. Post by: broadgage on June 28, 2022, 01:17:57 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61958813 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61958813)
Reported as being due to collision with a truck on a level crossing. Dramatic images from the scene show the location as being rather remote but in flat open farmland, relatively benign conditions without large trees, substantial buildings, bridges, or embankments. About 50 reported injuries, and many of the uninjured being accommodated in a school. Very sad. Title: USA National Rail Strike Post by: grahame on September 16, 2022, 04:30:02 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62908922)
Quote US freight rail companies and unions representing their workers have reached a "tentative agreement" to avert the first national rail strike in 30 years. The deal follows months of back and forth negotiations and 20 hours of overnight talks on working conditions. Reading and hearing about these potential strikes, the threat of them comes across as utterly understandable when you read what the main "grouch" was/is. I'm also struck by what appears to be a strike threat has resulted in further negotiations to avert the strikes and to avoid an actual shutdown - is there a lesson there for folks in the UK to learn from and follow? Title: Re: USA National Rail Strike Post by: Electric train on September 16, 2022, 07:10:36 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62908922) Quote US freight rail companies and unions representing their workers have reached a "tentative agreement" to avert the first national rail strike in 30 years. The deal follows months of back and forth negotiations and 20 hours of overnight talks on working conditions. Reading and hearing about these potential strikes, the threat of them comes across as utterly understandable when you read what the main "grouch" was/is. I'm also struck by what appears to be a strike threat has resulted in further negotiations to avert the strikes and to avoid an actual shutdown - is there a lesson there for folks in the UK to learn from and follow? The USA railways are freight centric. The US economy is dependent on the movement of freight by rail hence the US railroad unions have a lot more economic power. A USA railroad strike would also have a major impact on us in the UK, a lot of Europe - Asia container traffic is transhipped across USA / Canada. Also looks like there has been no US Government interference in the negotiations Fortunately, in the UK we do not have the same employment laws as the USA, although I suspect the Government want to move in that direction. Title: Amtrak passengers stranded for 29 hours feared they had been kidnapped Post by: ChrisB on January 12, 2023, 17:39:16 From The Grauniad (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/11/amtrak-passengers-stranded-29-hours?utm_term=63bfcd524e47794440e9cfca37489b71&utm_campaign=BusinessToday&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=bustoday_email)
Quote Some passengers called 911 fearing they were being held hostage, prompting conductor to announce ‘we’re not holding you hostage’ Hundreds of Amtrak passengers in South Carolina were stranded on a train for more than a day, prompting several to call the police out of fear they were being held hostage. The train, which departed from Washington DC, was delayed for more than 29 hours after being rerouted due to a derailed CSX freight train, reported ABC News. Panicked passengers fearing a more serious situation eventually began dialling 911, prompting the conductor to announce, “For those of you that are calling the police, we are not holding you hostage.”. The autotrain, which allows passengers to travel with their vehicles, was set to arrive in Sanford, Florida, at about 10am on Tuesday. But after a scheduled stop in Lorton, Virginia, at 5.30pm on Monday, it halted in a wooded area in Denmark, South Carolina, an hour outside of Columbia. After a long wait, the employees “timed out”, meaning they could not legally operate the train, and had to wait for a new crew to arrive. The train had limited food supplies and multiple pets in need of a bathroom break, reported the Washington Post. The major delays caused several people onboard the train to panic and call 911. Frustrated staff asked them to stop. “For those of you that are calling the police, we are not holding you hostage,” said one conductor in a recorded video of the announcement. “We are giving you all the information which we have. We are sorry about the inconvenience.” The conductor also reminded passengers not to open their windows to smoke. Throughout the ordeal, several trapped passengers took to social media to air their frustrations. “Any help heading towards the fully booked Amtrak auto train full of elderly passengers that is now almost 10 hours past arrival time? No food, no access to medical care, crew has disembarked, no replacement. Stuck in SC,” wrote one Twitter user, who also tagged the US transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg. An Amtrak spokesperson, Christina Leeds, stated the delays were caused by the derailed freight train and that Amtrak had “[provided] regular updates to customers, along with meals, snack packs and beverages”. The train, which carried 563 passengers and 333 vehicles, finally reached its destination on Wednesday morning. Amtrak service has been increasingly affected by delays, cancellations and other travel chaos. In June 2022, over 25% of Amtrak customers experienced delays. Cancellations, while rare, also increased during the summer, reported the Washington Post. More recently, inclement weather through the midwestern region in December caused major delays. In Chicago, several trains were delayed by a winter storm. Title: Re: Amtrak passengers stranded for 29 hours feared they had been kidnapped Post by: Electric train on January 12, 2023, 17:55:44 From The Grauniad (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/11/amtrak-passengers-stranded-29-hours?utm_term=63bfcd524e47794440e9cfca37489b71&utm_campaign=BusinessToday&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=bustoday_email) Quote Some passengers called 911 fearing they were being held hostage, prompting conductor to announce ‘we’re not holding you hostage’ Hundreds of Amtrak passengers in South Carolina were stranded on a train for more than a day, prompting several to call the police out of fear they were being held hostage. The train, which departed from Washington DC, was delayed for more than 29 hours after being rerouted due to a derailed CSX freight train, reported ABC News. Panicked passengers fearing a more serious situation eventually began dialling 911, prompting the conductor to announce, “For those of you that are calling the police, we are not holding you hostage.”. The autotrain, which allows passengers to travel with their vehicles, was set to arrive in Sanford, Florida, at about 10am on Tuesday. But after a scheduled stop in Lorton, Virginia, at 5.30pm on Monday, it halted in a wooded area in Denmark, South Carolina, an hour outside of Columbia. After a long wait, the employees “timed out”, meaning they could not legally operate the train, and had to wait for a new crew to arrive. The train had limited food supplies and multiple pets in need of a bathroom break, reported the Washington Post. The major delays caused several people onboard the train to panic and call 911. Frustrated staff asked them to stop. “For those of you that are calling the police, we are not holding you hostage,” said one conductor in a recorded video of the announcement. “We are giving you all the information which we have. We are sorry about the inconvenience.” The conductor also reminded passengers not to open their windows to smoke. Throughout the ordeal, several trapped passengers took to social media to air their frustrations. “Any help heading towards the fully booked Amtrak auto train full of elderly passengers that is now almost 10 hours past arrival time? No food, no access to medical care, crew has disembarked, no replacement. Stuck in SC,” wrote one Twitter user, who also tagged the US transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg. An Amtrak spokesperson, Christina Leeds, stated the delays were caused by the derailed freight train and that Amtrak had “[provided] regular updates to customers, along with meals, snack packs and beverages”. The train, which carried 563 passengers and 333 vehicles, finally reached its destination on Wednesday morning. Amtrak service has been increasingly affected by delays, cancellations and other travel chaos. In June 2022, over 25% of Amtrak customers experienced delays. Cancellations, while rare, also increased during the summer, reported the Washington Post. More recently, inclement weather through the midwestern region in December caused major delays. In Chicago, several trains were delayed by a winter storm. And we get grumpy with a 29 minute delay Title: Re: Amtrak passengers stranded for 29 hours feared they had been kidnapped Post by: Bmblbzzz on January 12, 2023, 19:37:28 Off topic, but:
Quote The train had limited food supplies and multiple pets in need of a bathroom break, reported the Washington Post. I presume "pets in need of a bathroom break" has been lifted verbatim from the WaPo. Of course if the pets literally needed a bathroom, there are bathrooms on the train.Slightly more on topic: I recall from books and movies that American passenger trains used to carry a set of portable steps that the conductor could use to let passengers off the train if, for some reason, it stopped other than at a platform. For instance, if it overshot a request stop. I don't know if that's still the case but if it were, maybe the pets (and their owners) could use it. Title: Re: Amtrak passengers stranded for 29 hours feared they had been kidnapped Post by: Worcester_Passenger on January 13, 2023, 11:31:13 Off topic, but: They still do. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G24wWdKZbE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G24wWdKZbE) at about the 4:55 mark. And that's at a platform!Quote The train had limited food supplies and multiple pets in need of a bathroom break, reported the Washington Post. I presume "pets in need of a bathroom break" has been lifted verbatim from the WaPo. Of course if the pets literally needed a bathroom, there are bathrooms on the train.Slightly more on topic: I recall from books and movies that American passenger trains used to carry a set of portable steps that the conductor could use to let passengers off the train if, for some reason, it stopped other than at a platform. For instance, if it overshot a request stop. I don't know if that's still the case but if it were, maybe the pets (and their owners) could use it. Title: Re: Amtrak passengers stranded for 29 hours feared they had been kidnapped Post by: Worcester_Passenger on January 13, 2023, 16:41:54 Or (clearer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bANWsmK5Vgg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bANWsmK5Vgg) at the 3:45 mark.
Title: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: grahame on February 21, 2023, 22:21:27 On Feb. 3, 2023, a Norfolk Southern train carrying hazardous chemicals derailed in East Palestine, Ohio. Followed by a massive blaze and lots of issues with pollution.
From The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/pete-buttigieg-ohio-derailment-norfolk-southern-b2286658.html) Quote Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg has called on the rail industry to immediately improve safety standards or face stiff penalties after a train derailment in Ohio forced mass evacuations and a toxic chemical spill and burn off. Mr Buttigieg unveiled a package of reforms on Tuesday that would increase fines for “egregious violations”, force rail companies to provide sick pay and inform local officials when they are transporting hazardous materials through their state. Not the first such accident - US rail is has a much worse record that British, for which we should be thankful. It brings to mind, though Llangennech. Title: Re: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: Electric train on February 22, 2023, 06:47:33 Not the first such accident - US rail is has a much worse record that British, for which we should be thankful. It brings to mind, though Llangennech. President Obama brought in regulations for the transportation of toxic substances on US Railroads, during his time in office President Trump revoked the regulations. Trump administration repealed a regulation requiring modern brakes for oil trains and cancelled a plan requiring train operators to be tested for sleep apnoea, withdraw a requirement for two-person crews on trains. The USA FRA in Trump's time spelt out the broader department attitude toward rail safety: “DOT’s approach to achieving safety improvements begins with a focus on removing unnecessary barriers and issuing voluntary guidance, rather than regulations that could stifle innovation.” Derailments and level crossing accidents seem, to me, in the USA just a day to day hazard of running a railway Title: Re: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 22, 2023, 10:40:15 And 12-hour shifts.
Title: Re: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: Worcester_Passenger on February 22, 2023, 14:42:01 Apparently Trump is going to visit East Palestine today. It'll be interesting to see what he says.
Title: Re: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: Electric train on February 22, 2023, 18:00:55 Apparently Trump is going to visit East Palestine today. It'll be interesting to see what he says. Make America great again? Title: Re: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: ellendune on February 23, 2023, 07:52:43 Apparently Trump is going to visit East Palestine today. It'll be interesting to see what he says. It might not be prudent for him to mention deregulation of railway safety. Title: Re: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: grahame on February 23, 2023, 08:26:08 Apparently Trump is going to visit East Palestine today. It'll be interesting to see what he says. It might not be prudent for him to mention deregulation of railway safety. Prudency and Trump tend not to go together. Title: Re: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: Electric train on February 23, 2023, 16:23:30 Apparently Trump is going to visit East Palestine today. It'll be interesting to see what he says. It might not be prudent for him to mention deregulation of railway safety. Prudency and Trump tend not to go together. This is part of what is referred to the "rust belt" once the industrial heartland of USA manufacturing it was and psoibly will be the part of the USA where his "Make America Great Again" has the biggest appeal. I'm sure his deregulation of railroads was part of MAGA by allowing easier movement of goods Title: Re: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: stuving on February 24, 2023, 00:47:25 The NTSB has put out a preliminary report (https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD23MR005.aspx). The technical bit is that an axle bearing overheated, and was detected just before the accident and the drivers told to stop. However, the bearing failed before the train stopped, leading to the derailment. At the previous detector (20 miles away) it was not yet too hot.
Title: Re: Ohio .... accident, spill, burn off Post by: Electric train on February 24, 2023, 06:47:38 47 mph does not seem very fast to cause such a catastrophic derailment, until you take into account the length of the train 149 waggons which can be 67 feet in length 70 to 100 tons.
The use of a knuckle couplers (Janney coupler) with no buffers; these coupling will not prevent rail cars knife jacking, disconnecting in a violent vertical movement, although US rail cars carrying hazardous substances have coupling which is designed to prevent this. Title: USA - railways and incidents (merged posts) Post by: ChrisB on March 06, 2023, 14:48:40 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-64865242)
Quote CCTV shows the moment a ceiling panel came crashing down, nearly hitting a commuter at a subway station in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The Massachusetts Department of Transportation (MBTA) said the panel was installed in the 1980s, and weighed about 11kg (25 lbs) because of moisture build-up. No injuries were reported, and the MBTA said it had now removed any other panels from the station that posed an immediate safety concern. It also announced it would carry out inspections on panels in all of its stations. Click here (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av-embeds/64865242) Title: Freight train derailed in USA Post by: infoman on March 30, 2023, 13:08:50 near Raymond in Minnesota(which in the central North) near the Canadian border at 01:00am local time
The train was carrying Ethonol and corn syrup LIVE pictures from Sky No injurys were mentioned Title: Re: Freight train derailed in USA Post by: Red Squirrel on March 30, 2023, 17:14:57 The train was carrying Ethonol and corn syrup …on it’s way to a Californian Zinfandel factory, perhaps? Title: San Francisco cable cars: short film from Tom Ingolls Post by: Mark A on May 17, 2023, 22:18:48 Lovely survivors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtFpFHuy6D0&t=1s Mark Title: Re: USA / Railroad death rate Post by: grahame on January 13, 2024, 19:53:12 Four years later - the Florida toll continues
From Yahoo News (https://news.yahoo.com/ntsb-investigating-2-brightline-high-170504703.html) Quote NTSB investigating 2 Brightline high speed train crashes that killed 3 people in Florida this week FORT LAUDERDALE Fla. (AP) — The National Transportation Safety Board said Saturday it will investigate two crashes involving Florida's Brightline train that killed three people at the same railroad crossing on the high speed train's route between Miami and Orlando. The crashes happened Wednesday and Friday at a crossing along the U.S. 1 corridor in Melbourne, on Florida's Atlantic coast, where the high speed train passes through on its daily routes to and from South Florida. Since Brightline launched the 160-mile extension that links South Florida and Orlando in September, there have been five deaths, according to an Associated Press database. Friday's crash killed driver Lisa Ann Batchelder, 52, and passenger Michael Anthony Degasperi, 54, both of Melbourne. On Wednesday, 62-year-old Charles Julian Phillips was killed when the vehicle he was driving was hit by the train. Three passengers in that vehicle were injured, according to Melbourne police. Melbourne Mayor Paul Alfrey told reporters at the scene that the SUV tried to outrun the train. He said he's spoken to Brightline officials about doing another public safety campaign to warn drivers not to go around railroad crossings because the train is traveling at higher speeds. “I start by saying if the arm is down don’t go around,” Alfrey told Orlando television station WKMG. “There’s no good outcome with a train. This is an unfortunate situation. We have the loss of life again. There’s safety precautions for a reason, and people need to adhere them.” The bright, neon yellow trains travel at speeds up to 125 mph (201 kph) in some locations. The 3.5-hour, 235-mile (378-kilometer) trip between Miami and Orlando takes about 30 minutes less than the average drive. Title: Re: USA / Railroad death rate Post by: stuving on January 13, 2024, 20:38:11 Four years later - the Florida toll continues From Yahoo News (https://news.yahoo.com/ntsb-investigating-2-brightline-high-170504703.html) Quote NTSB investigating 2 Brightline high speed train crashes that killed 3 people in Florida this week I know there's a huge number of grade crossing along that line, and was wondering how many. I found a forum post saying "Brightline has 328 grade crossings in about 190 miles apparently." That sounds quite plausible. Brightline did improve some of those, by adding central reservations so you can't dodge round the barriers etc. But Floridans are just not used to trains that arrive before you hear the horn sound. NSTB have not posted that investigation yet, though they do have at least one already underway on Brightline. They classify grade crossing accidents under highways, which looks odd - but maybe isn't. The one I did find involved a vehicle stopping on one track to wait for a freight train on the other, before the barrier came down behind it. There was a fast train the other way as well ... Title: Collision between train and military vehicle, USA Post by: broadgage on September 13, 2024, 20:25:05 It appears that the military vehicle, some type of large self propelled artillery piece, was grounded or otherwise stuck on a level crossing and then struck at a considerable speed by a freight train.
No serious injuries reported, perhaps surprisingly. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c93p35wd00eo (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c93p35wd00eo) Title: Re: Collision between train and military vehicle, USA Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 13, 2024, 21:31:47 'Goose Creek' - so apt.
And the freight train just kept going. ;D Title: Re: Collision between train and military vehicle, USA Post by: Electric train on September 14, 2024, 07:18:35 Perhaps the weapon that the USA should send to Ukraine is CSX ;D
Level (grade) crossing collisions in the USA are a daily occurrence Title: Re: Collision between train and military vehicle, USA Post by: stuving on September 14, 2024, 14:22:42 If you go to Goose Creek (virtually, of course) you can see that the track is above road level and a short ramp of asphalt has been built up to it to help vehicles get across. Short vehicles, at least, since it's far too short to prevent a low-loader grounding. And there's even a sign warning of exactly that hazard! A pictorial one, which still looks odd to me in the land of verbose road signs (I think this is a recent change).
I've tried to attach a .kml file - I've never worked out how to link to Google Street View (in Earth or Maps), but we'll see how it goes. If all else fails, the location is 33°00'03.70" N 80°02'13.27" W. Plan C is a screen shot - at least that works! Title: New York teen accused of stealing subway train and crashing it - September 2024 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 19, 2024, 16:05:38 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgm1xmjjepo):
Quote New York police have arrested one of two people they suspect of taking and crashing an empty subway train. The person arrested, a 17-year-old girl, is charged with criminal mischief over the incident in Briarwood subway station in Queens, shortly after midnight on 12 September. She and her companion are accused of entering and operating the train, then causing a "collision". A search continues for the companion. No injuries were reported in the crash. The New York Police Department (NYPD) has offered few other details and it remains unclear how the pair gained access to the train. The BBC has contacted the NYPD and New York's Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) for further comment on this aspect. Nor have officers said how far they were able to travel in the train before they fled. Surveillance images released by police showed one suspect dressed fully in pink - including a shower cap - and a second person wearing blue. As well as the criminal mischief charge, the arrested teenager has also been charged with reckless endangerment. The second person was described by the NYPD as a male with a slim build and light complexion, who was last seen wearing a blue tank top and red shorts, and carrying a black backpack. A similar incident was reported in January at Forest Hills-71st Avenue station, also in Queens. Again, nobody was hurt and no damage was reported. At the time, officials speculated that a stolen key was used. They moved to reassure the public that the train would not have been able to leave its yard and reach active tracks. Title: Quietest national network station in 2023 - USA style Post by: grahame on October 26, 2024, 14:43:47 From the Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/texas-sanderson-quietest-train-station-us-b2636087.html)
Quote A sparsely populated town in Texas is home to the least-used Amtrak train station in America, only receiving 247 passengers within a year. The National Railroad Passenger Corporation, better known as Amtrak, spans across 21,000 route miles in 46 states in the US, operating more than 300 trains a day. [snip] In Amtrak data analysed by MailOnline, it was revealed that Sanderson, an area in Terrell County, Texas, with a population of only around 700 people, received 247 passengers at its station in 2023. [snip] Despite its low passenger use, the station got a $3m makeover in 2021, with a new open-air shelter, concrete platform and walkways to make the station more accessible. The station is served six times a week, westbound and eastbound, by the long-distance Sunset Limited train that runs from New Orleans to San Antonio, then to Los Angeles for a 48-hour-long journey, as well as the 32-hour Texas Eagle, which departs from Chicago on its way to Los Angeles. While only a small town, Sanderson has come to be known as the “Cactus Capital of Texas”, and is also an important livestock grazing center. Title: Re: Quietest national network station in 2023 - USA style Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 26, 2024, 17:29:00 From the Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/texas-sanderson-quietest-train-station-us-b2636087.html) Quote A sparsely populated town in Texas is home to the least-used Amtrak train station in America, only receiving 247 passengers within a year. The National Railroad Passenger Corporation, better known as Amtrak, spans across 21,000 route miles in 46 states in the US, operating more than 300 trains a day. [snip] In Amtrak data analysed by MailOnline, it was revealed that Sanderson, an area in Terrell County, Texas, with a population of only around 700 people, received 247 passengers at its station in 2023. [snip] Despite its low passenger use, the station got a $3m makeover in 2021, with a new open-air shelter, concrete platform and walkways to make the station more accessible. The station is served six times a week, westbound and eastbound, by the long-distance Sunset Limited train that runs from New Orleans to San Antonio, then to Los Angeles for a 48-hour-long journey, as well as the 32-hour Texas Eagle, which departs from Chicago on its way to Los Angeles. While only a small town, Sanderson has come to be known as the “Cactus Capital of Texas”, and is also an important livestock grazing center. Quote ... a new open-air shelter ... In other words, a roof with no sides. ;D This at a location (https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/terrell/texas/united-states/ustx1764) where the annual rainfall is 41 inches, and there is less than one passenger a day. ::) That was $3m well spent, then. Title: Re: Quietest national network station in 2023 - USA style Post by: eightonedee on October 26, 2024, 17:32:01 So it's not just the UK where it seems to cost a fortune to build anything on a railway....
Title: Re: Quietest national network station in 2023 - USA style Post by: Oxonhutch on October 26, 2024, 18:42:32 In other words, a roof with no sides. ;D Cactus capital of Texas. Think shade! Title: Re: Quietest national network station in 2023 - USA style Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 26, 2024, 18:49:19 Instead of air conditioning? :)
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