Great Western Coffee Shop

I thought I knew the answer to this one, but I understand that customers looking to buy Standard Day Returns from Melksham to Bristol Temple Meads are being asked questions like ...

Do you live in Melksham? and Can you prove you live in Melksham?

... and are being told I should only sell these tickets to Melksham residents

What are the restrictions on the sale of these tickets?  I've had no problem in buying tickets from Melksham to Swindon at Chippenham, and from Melksham to Weymouth at Temple Meads - in neither case was any residential restriction pointed out, as appears to be the case on travel to Bristol booked at Bradford-on-Avon.

What's the catch? Is it cheaper from Melksham than Chippenham or Trowbridge?

Chippenham to Bristol 8.60
Melksham to Bristol 9.00
Bradford-on-Avon to Bristol 10.70
Trowbridge to Bristol 11.30

But what are the restrictions?  I thought that Standard day returns were open to all comers, and that they could be used for shorter journeys provided they're on the authorised route(s).

Certainly I've caught a train in Melksham in the morning but not been able to get back there of an evening, or booked an "ex-Melksham" ticket elsewhere in the morning, but been able to travel back all the way home in the evening.   Never been a problem in the past!

Aha, I see!  Presumably everyone who buys a ticket from Melksham gets included in the national statistics for journeys to that station. This will mean a misleading count for the station. That could be good - "proves" the service is used, even though cut back, and used to justify further trains. Or it could be bad as it will be used to "prove" that the cuts weren't that bad, since people are still "using" the line.

http://nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

link to national rail conditions of carriage, as I read section C You should NOT have to prove residency.

Feel Free, nay obligated to quote NRCOC at anyone who disputes this if you read it and concur ;)

Three points on what you have raised:

1. Moonraker, THANK YOU, I thought I we were into a mad 1984 (George Orwell) world of double speak where standard open tickets were no longer open.

2. Ticket sales from Melksham climbed from 3000 to 27000 in 5 years.  Just less that 40% of those tickets (IIRC) were on the "suspect" Bristol journey, Melksham to Bristol is one of the more popular journeys travelled.  So an estimate of ticket sales for journeys actually made is still 20000 (up from 3000 - or should THAT Figure have been lower too?) even if two thirds of the Bristol Journeys were rogues.    The 35% compund growth rate you'll see me quote for Melksham actually takes care of this booking anomoly, which is well know; I have seen figures that break down ticket sales by destination, and also other sources of passenger numbers that are not dependent on ticket sales measurements.   In all cases, growth well exceeds 10% per annum for the period during which the service enjoyed a service of 5 round trips a day, and that's in contrast to the specification basis of less that 1%.

3. If the 120000 journeys made per year on the TransWilts line through Melksham (leavers, joiners and through passengers) each had a fare increase of 2.50, it would raise an extra 300000 pounds per annum which is exactly the amount of money that (I am told) is needed to make a single train shuttling up and down all day between the 06:18 departure from Swindon and the 20:20 arrival back there ... financially viable

I've always understood that when a customer requests tickets for journeys the Booking office/ travel agent HAVE TO issue the tickets requested so if you want to buy a Day Return from Wick to Thurso at Swindon YOU CAN, even if it's not possible to make the journey.

More the point if only local residents can buy tickets at stations it would TOTALLY **** UP all the motorists parking at Bristol Parkway.

Not much fun for Holiday Makers wanting a day out on a Devon or Cornish Branch line, somebody pulling wool?.

They have no right to question your choice of ticket!

Yes ... I (used to) understand that but since I've taken it upon myself to learn into these things I've come across all sorts of strange quirks and rule and specials which, frankly, throw the ticketing an pricing into disrepute.   I think that Cornish residents can get a special deal whereby they can travel by train cheaper than non-residents and - in contrast - residents of Wiltshire can't buy something called a "Britrail pass" that would provide them with a good deal on a UK touring holiday, but residents of Witchita can.

But thanks, everyone, for the clarification on the specific case. Hopefully the people who've told me about this - who happened to Melksham residents, but had to use other stations because there was no suitably timed train - will now be able to point out section C to the booking office and not feel intimidated.

Cornwall and Devon, actually (and the Highlands of Scotland, bits of Wales East Anglia, Cumbria, North Yorkshire, etc...)


That's not really a 'contrast' though, since Cornwallians and Devonians can't get Britrail passes either.

No-one who resides in the UK can get a BritRail (although the rules are different for dual citizenship IIRC)...

Our equivalent is the All Line Rover.

I think it was getting late. The comment that I was making is that there are some tickets for which certain residency is required.  The first quoted case is one where the lower priced ticket is available only to the people who reside in the area, and the contrast in the second is that it's only available to people who live outside the area.

For about 80 times the price!

Devon and Cornwall Railcard only available to residents of Devon, Cornwall, Plymouth and Isles of Scilly. Cost - ^10/year and residency must be proved. Best ^10 I ever spent - makes train travel dirt cheap in Devon as an accompanying adult also gets 1/3 off and kids go for ^1 (up to four kids)

My wife and I (residents of Wiltshire) have often made use of the Freedom of Devon and Cornwall rail passes, which although not quite the same thing and not quite as cheap as the residents permits, are still a bargain if you travel around a fair bit on holiday. The basic one costs ^40 I think.

"The Freedom of Devon & Cornwall Rover provides unlimited use of all National Rail services on the map in the validity section. It is available in both 3 in 7 day and 8 in 15 day versions"

 
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/promotions/2e3b78700a040004011c93f7fece3a1d.html

You say about Devon and Cornwall tickets only available to tickets. Do we deserve nothing for tourists coming here in summer pushing up parking prices, litering the place and clogging up our roads???

Same could be said anywhere else, perhaps you would prefer to get rid of all the non-locals then!?!

Just to update on this topic:- The conductor on the 07:03 Trowbridge to Cardiff this morning was asking people with tickets from Melksham if they were residents.  He told someone that the revenue office had instructed him to because of falling revenues at other stations.

It's not because of falling revenue at other stations..... but cos' they don't like the ticket man at trowbridge.... he is telling people to get the Melksham ticket cos it's cheaper....
He might get the sack cos' they say he must not tell u to buy it but can sell it if u ask ???

I'm tempted to contact FGW CS about this ...

I suspect that most regular Trowbridge 'customers' know the routine, and it wouldn't take much effort to print a few simple handouts to inform those who should know better.

Better still it might be worth a morning off work to stand with a big poster suggesting that customers might be better off buying a Melksham return, no need then for the guys behind the desk to casually mention it.

Might even print a big ticket with 'It's cheaper from Melksham' on it.  ;)

Loads of options.

I've emailed FGW and got a reply that it is their intention to close this loophole as soon as possible, however this may take some time due to the small percentage of increases possible on regulated fares.

I've sent a reply back regarding the point that customers are being asked whether they are actually residents, and that it is irrelevant in this countries ticketing system.

Tom

All they'll do now is put up the Melksham fare, so only the people of Melksham are going to suffer higher fares!

Being the conspiracy theorist that I am - they probably are trying to gauge the number of real Melksham residents using the ticket...so they know how much to raise it by to price out those who should be paying the 'correct fare', but IMHO they're paying the correct fare anyway, they have a ticket for their entire journey so good for them!

TECHNICLY buying a ticket from A to C but only travelling from B to C to avoid the correct fare from B to C is fare evasion BUT FGW would have to prove the intent which would be rather difficult!

Quite.

On a lot of tickets you would have to prove that someone didn't break their journey!

That's a point, if you had say, a B to C, and you wanted to XS to A, and A was cheaper... would you get money back?  ;D  ;D

Very good point???

Would you? HELL AS LIKE you would.

When a Ticket for A to C is cheaper than A to B, for the same PRODUCT then the company MAY BE GUILTY of PROFITEERING, which is an Illegal Act.

I don't think so. Do you think this wouldn't have been challenged if you were correct?

P.S. Why do you use capitals and bold so often?

You got a couple of ^Million to take on ATOC?

I haven't!

because he thinks only his view matters and is the only view that he thinks is right!

Personally speaking, I'd be perfectly happy to pay a higher fare if it meant having an acceptable train service to and from Melksham.

Quite frankly I'd be quite happy to ride outside in a cattle truck if it came down to it - all I really want is a service that I can rely on. Preferably one that runs in daylight hours.

Incorrect, as it's explicitly permitted by Condition 16:

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ps. If you want to emphasise a word by typing it in upper case, it helps if you spell it correctly... :P

Nice one TerminalJunkie, common sense does prevail then.

Personally I don't like personal digs at people, and yes I do think only my view is right, but then you can't hold a view if in two minds.
(I'm open for my views to be changed by senseible debate)

Suggest Mr Vacman that you study your post and how it's written very carefully.

Maybe you should tone down the aggression in some of your post's then, I was simply giving my opinion which surely is what a forum is for??

Ok, I think you have both made your point. Let's leave it there please.