Title: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: Surrey 455 on March 16, 2015, 10:33:14 From Wales Online 4th March 2015
Quote Network Rail has today published its draft consultation document for rail investment projects in Wales and the borders. As well as electrification of the North Wales Mainline the other standout project is a major revamp of Cardiff Central Station. Why is the investment at the station needed? To accommodate growing passenger levels. The current annual passenger level at the Victorian built station is 13 million, but that is forecast to reach 22 million by 2023 and 32 million by 2043. As a key gateway into Wales the station hardly gives a positive impression to visitors to Wales for the first time. The reality is that in comparison to other leading train stations in the UK it has not had enough investment in recent years. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/what-next-ambitious-plans-transform-8766769 Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: TonyK on March 16, 2015, 11:54:36 Cardiff Central / Caerdydd Canolog is certainly not my favourite station to arrive at. I have often been on trains waiting for a platform, and it had a contender for Worst Public Toilet in the Universe some years back. I haven't been there recently, but a few quid in investment would not go amiss.
Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: phile on March 16, 2015, 15:58:52 There is no caf^ on the platforms, but right down below on the concourse outside the barriers and remote from train information. There is an just and open air kiosk on Platforms 1/2 and with no seating area.
Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: JayMac on March 16, 2015, 16:13:07 Cardiff Central / Caerdydd Canolog is certainly not my favourite station to arrive at. I have often been on trains waiting for a platform, and it had a contender for Worst Public Toilet in the Universe some years back. I haven't been there recently, but a few quid in investment would not go amiss. Those toilets are little improved. Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: chrisr_75 on March 16, 2015, 16:24:01 Cardiff Central / Caerdydd Canolog is certainly not my favourite station to arrive at. I have often been on trains waiting for a platform, and it had a contender for Worst Public Toilet in the Universe some years back. I haven't been there recently, but a few quid in investment would not go amiss. Those toilets are little improved. I'd second that, quite possibly the worst I've ever had the misfortune to experience, it's pretty appalling that no-one has come up with a little bit of money to refurb them and clean them (properly) more often. Swansea & Bridgend are also pretty poor in this respect. Tarting up CDF won't come a minute too soon, a very poor introduction to an otherwise fairly nicely sorted city centre. Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: Rhydgaled on March 16, 2015, 16:35:20 What next? Hopefully, in my opinion, a mass protest against the defacing of the north side of the station with a design that seems to be inspired by Havant Tesco (not my pic) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/7944912@N05/3467106355/). Hopefully this time the result will be better than Aberystwyth, where rather than drop the stupid new canopy from the plans in the face of objections they just redesigned it. It is marginly better than the original plans but still an insult to railway architecture.
The toilets were indeed dreadful last time I was there though, so something probably ought to be done (although that was before the work started on the new platform (platform 8 if I recall correctly) and southern enterance and I haven't been back since to know if they are putting the loos right as part of the current upgrade work). More floor space is needed too apparently but surely you don't need to ruin the (listed) building to do it. My suggestion would be to extend the building on the south side of the station instead, where the new southern enterance is going. Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: chuffed on March 16, 2015, 16:50:07 Whatever happens, I hope those marvellous art deco lights in the main hall do not disappear and that the Pigeon wave automata around the station clock at the west end are retained. Commissioned by Network Rail in 2002 from creator, Martin Smith. Apparently a toy train runs along it on the hour and the pigeons rise and flap in turn to avoid it, in a supposedly mexican wave. Never seen it working yet. Wales does not seem to have a good track record with automata. I never saw the steam clock working in John Forster square in Newport, either.
Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: chrisr_75 on March 16, 2015, 17:26:49 What next? Hopefully, in my opinion, a mass protest against the defacing of the north side of the station with a design that seems to be inspired by Havant Tesco (not my pic) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/7944912@N05/3467106355/). Hopefully this time the result will be better than Aberystwyth, where rather than drop the stupid new canopy from the plans in the face of objections they just redesigned it. It is marginly better than the original plans but still an insult to railway architecture. The toilets were indeed dreadful last time I was there though, so something probably ought to be done (although that was before the work started on the new platform (platform 8 if I recall correctly) and southern enterance and I haven't been back since to know if they are putting the loos right as part of the current upgrade work). More floor space is needed too apparently but surely you don't need to ruin the (listed) building to do it. My suggestion would be to extend the building on the south side of the station instead, where the new southern enterance is going. Last time I was there about a month ago, Platform 8 was taking shape, but no apparent effort going on with the toilets or any other existing facilities at all. It would seem sensible to me to close the on-platform toilets to add more platform waiting space and have a central facility somewhere inside or attached to the main building which would be much more efficient to monitor and keep clean. Agreed that they should leave the rather grand main concourse building in as much of it's glory as possible, but the whole station just feels rather too cramped and 'old' for the current passenger levels and is now in dire need of sorting out properly. Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: JayMac on March 16, 2015, 18:00:07 Whatever happens, I hope those marvellous art deco lights in the main hall do not disappear and that the Pigeon wave automata around the station clock at the west end are retained. Commissioned by Network Rail in 2002 from creator, Martin Smith. Apparently a toy train runs along it on the hour and the pigeons rise and flap in turn to avoid it, in a supposedly mexican wave. Never seen it working yet. Wales does not seem to have a good track record with automata. I never saw the steam clock working in John Forster square in Newport, either. Clock is there. Automata gone. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QW7smMMC5mw/UYQAcypCFII/AAAAAAAACqQ/zKm2D8Bqc4Y/s1600/P1000560.JPG Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: chuffed on March 17, 2015, 11:46:06 Have been in touch with the automata maker. He told me it was removed a couple of years ago, but was not informed of the reason why by Cardiff Central or Network Rail.
Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: TonyK on March 17, 2015, 12:43:21 I was at CDF for a football match at the Millennium Stadium - Bristol City in the final of the Best Johnsons Trophy or similar. I have never seen a station so packed as it was 10 minutes after the presentation and over moon / sick as parrot.
I am pleased, in a strange way, that my opinion of the toilets is not just my rather exacting standards, but is shared by many. You would think with all those Assembly Members coming and going that things would be better. Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: chrisr_75 on July 28, 2015, 12:13:49 Further update on plans for Cardiff Central have popped up on the BBC today:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-33685200 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-33685200) Quote Fresh plans have been drawn up for the biggest transformation of Cardiff Central railway station since it was built in the 1850s. Last year, Network Rail released images which included a wave effect roof which but this has now been stripped back to a more standard glass fronted entrance. There would also be new retail space and a mezzanine floor. The work coincides with plans to revamp that area of the city centre which is where the new BBC building will be. A new bus terminal is also being built in the area. The earliest work on the station could start would be 2019 but Network Rail have yet to fully cost the multi-million pound plans. Other works at the station are being carried out including a new south entrance. Currently, 13 million people use Cardiff Central per year and that figure is expected to grow to 23 million by 2023. Mark Langman, route managing director for Network Rail Wales, said: "Our railway is carrying almost 50% more passengers than we were 10 years ago and that number is predicted to grow significantly in the years ahead, with up to 32m passengers forecast to use Cardiff Central station by 2043. "There is still more to do to meet future demand and to build a station fit for a capital city." Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: Timmer on July 28, 2015, 16:35:03 About time. For a capital city station Cardiff Central is a disgrace.
Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: Red Squirrel on July 28, 2015, 17:13:28 Quote Fresh plans have been drawn up for the biggest transformation of Cardiff Central railway station since it was built in the 1850s. So this transformation will be bigger than the one the GWR did in the 1930s, will it? Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: John R on July 28, 2015, 19:20:15 Am I the only one to be sad that slowly the traditional style of platform canopies are being swept away?
Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: Red Squirrel on July 28, 2015, 21:11:37 Am I the only one to be sad that slowly the traditional style of platform canopies are being swept away? I know what you mean - I used to really like Reading! Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: Rhydgaled on August 13, 2015, 15:16:32 Am I the only one to be sad that slowly the traditional style of platform canopies are being swept away? Nope. Having seen the updated design for Cardiff Central (at the link posted above), which appears to show a 'transfer deck', like the new Reading I am even more horrified than I was when I saw the proposed Tesco-style canopy for the north entrance.Apparently, Network Rail also want to lengthen platform 0 to accomodate London services. Assuming they mean 9-car class 800/801 units, how on earth do they think they can do that? I can't see there being space for it without demolishing the existing station buildings entirely. Last time I was there about a month ago, Platform 8 was taking shape, but no apparent effort going on with the toilets or any other existing facilities at all. It would seem sensible to me to close the on-platform toilets to add more platform waiting space and have a central facility somewhere inside or attached to the main building which would be much more efficient to monitor and keep clean. The platform toilets are now in the process of being renovated. While a big improvement, and not quite as bad as Haverfordwest's revamped toilets (which have stainless steel toilet bowls), Cardiff Central's new loos are a disapointment (no toilet seats).Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: IndustryInsider on August 13, 2015, 23:47:04 While a big improvement, and not quite as bad as Haverfordwest's revamped toilets (which have stainless steel toilet bowls), Cardiff Central's new loos are a disapointment (no toilet seats). Presumably a design chosen to minimise the chances of, or impact of, vandalism? The stainless steel bowls with no lid are practically indestructible and easy to keep looking in a reasonable state, and whilst they might not look too pretty I'd rather that than a plastic lid ripped off and lying on the floor and a cracked porcelain pan! Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: chrisr_75 on August 14, 2015, 00:05:24 While a big improvement, and not quite as bad as Haverfordwest's revamped toilets (which have stainless steel toilet bowls), Cardiff Central's new loos are a disapointment (no toilet seats). Presumably a design chosen to minimise the chances of, or impact of, vandalism? The stainless steel bowls with no lid are practically indestructible and easy to keep looking in a reasonable state, and whilst they might not look too pretty I'd rather that than a plastic lid ripped off and lying on the floor and a cracked porcelain pan! Sadly I suspect they are indeed designed like this to cater for the lowest common denominator who emerge in the Cardiff evenings... The current setup is the seatless, stainless steel bowls as I recall (I try to forget any experiences of them, they really are that bad) - it's fair to say that they have failed miserably to keep them even in a reasonable condition. Appears to be a common issue with ATW managed stations going by my experiences. In terms of the toilets, what Cardiff really needs in the long term is a central facility which is easier to monitor/maintain, rather than the dispersed small facilities (ty bach is a rather appropriate term!) dotted around the platforms. Does anyone know if Cardiff is likely to revert to NR management at any point, due to its passenger volume, which is actually larger than some other NR managed regional stations (e.g. BRI)? Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: didcotdean on August 14, 2015, 11:01:38 At least they are better than an arrangement I came across in the USA once in a railway station - a row of stainless steel pans with no partitions between them! They were shielded from being seen from the outside by a wall but that was all. Went in and half way down was an old gent, trousers round his ankles trying to lower himself onto the pan aided by another.
Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: Rhydgaled on August 16, 2015, 17:50:36 While a big improvement, and not quite as bad as Haverfordwest's revamped toilets (which have stainless steel toilet bowls), Cardiff Central's new loos are a disapointment (no toilet seats). Presumably a design chosen to minimise the chances of, or impact of, vandalism?In terms of the toilets, what Cardiff really needs in the long term is a central facility which is easier to monitor/maintain, rather than the dispersed small facilities (ty bach is a rather appropriate term!) dotted around the platforms. That does sound like it might be sensible, I wonder what alternative uses the current toilet buildings on the platforms could be put to.Going back to the station design, I noticed when I was having a look round that the north end of the eastern subway is much wider than the rest (the Upper Crust outlet in the main concourse extends back into that space, under the tracks). That got me thinking; could the entire space under the station from the east wall of the western subway* to the east end of the station be openned up and linked in with the new southern concourse? And does anyone have any idea how NR think they can extend platform 0? 50m west and you hit the pointwork leading into Canton depot, 40m east and you hit the main station building. I reckon a maximum length of 195m, a long way short of 9x26m. * this has listed tiles advertising the platforms (including the non-existant platform 5 (as an aside, why is it not platform 4 that is missing?)) and shouldn't be damaged. Title: Re: What next for ambitious plans to transform Cardiff Central Station? Post by: Tim on October 07, 2015, 17:31:21 could the entire space under the station from the east wall of the western subway* to the east end of the station be openned up and linked in with the new southern concourse? I have no idea what is under there but I certainly like the idea. Opening up the station vaults to passenger and retail use would enhance the heritage aspects of the station by making the (presumably brick) vaults visible. Better than a Reading style transfer deck and fewer stairs needed too. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |