Title: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: bobm on February 22, 2015, 18:32:16 From Journeycheck
Quote Cancellations to services between Hungerford and Bedwyn Due to an obstruction on the line between Hungerford and Bedwyn all lines are blocked. Apparently part of the parapet on a bridge at Froxfield has fallen on to the line after a lorry passed over the bridge. A train from London to Penzance ran over the debris while one from Penzance has been sent back from Bedwyn to Westbury and will then come via Melksham and Swindon making it around an hour late.. Stopping services to Bedwyn are terminating and starting back from Newbury. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 22, 2015, 18:37:08 HSTs through Melksham ... oh, if only. ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: grahame on February 22, 2015, 18:51:58 HSTs through Melksham ... oh, if only. ;) :D ;D 1A91 - the 16:02 Plymouth to Paddington - is routed via Melksham on Mondays to Thursdays from 5th January to 2nd April. Passing time 18:28. Which brings me to the question "when counting passengers using the TransWilts, do we count longer distance services". Further post to follow on this one - it relates to how to get realistic counts / statistics this summer. But, basically, I think we welcome the HSTs but don't count them as part of the TransWilts passenger count in either today, or the Monday through Thursday, scenarios. Title: Hungerford 22 Feb 2015 Post by: Southernman on February 22, 2015, 19:17:11 From FGW Twitter re terminating 16.34 Paddington to Penzance at Hungerford due to an obstruction:-
@FGW @JonnyBaum Hi Jonathan, this is still under investigation. Early indication it was a collapsed bridge. Andy Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: PhilWakely on February 22, 2015, 19:18:49 HSTs through Melksham ... oh, if only. ;) :D ;D I'm not sure what the minimum gap between Up trains is through Melksham, but 1A85 has just left Westbury for the second time (19:08) 123 minutes late and 1A90 is 'at platform' with a planned departure of 19:07, so there will be two up HSTs within minutes of each other :) Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: hoover50 on February 22, 2015, 19:30:33 From Pewsey Neighbourhood Policing Team Facebook page:
Wiltshire Police are currently dealing with a single vehicle road traffic collision where a large vehicle has collided with a railway bridge at Oak Hill nr Froxfield, Marlborough. This has caused some damage to the bridge and this has led to debris on the railway line. Whilst a train has hit this debris, no one has been injured. Police and others are at the scene and are currently dealing with this issue. Trains are currently on stop and Network Rail should be contacted for information in relation to this incident and any ongoing travel concerns for the stretch of railway between Pewsey and Hungerford. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: Brucey on February 22, 2015, 19:33:03 The train that hit the debris was reported full and standing according to personal staff accounts on Twitter. Will be a comfortable experience for those on board awaiting replacement road transport....
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: a-driver on February 22, 2015, 20:18:30 The train that hit the debris was reported full and standing according to personal staff accounts on Twitter. Will be a comfortable experience for those on board awaiting replacement road transport.... But it shows a train, which is full and standing, can do an emergency stop without anyone onboard being injured. I think a lot of passengers believe a train will stop on a sixpence when the emergency brakes are applied. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: bobm on February 22, 2015, 20:20:41 Having been on an HST that hit a shopping trolley a few months back, I was surprised how smooth the resulting emergency stop was.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: a-driver on February 22, 2015, 21:13:53 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-egWoTIYAAEgJE.jpg)
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: bobm on February 22, 2015, 21:17:48 I assume the tracks at the top are the up line, in which case it looks like it was fortunate the first train through was a down one.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: SandTEngineer on February 22, 2015, 21:18:21 B****y that was a very lucky escape (akin to the Newbury signal collapse). if the train had been on the other line............... :o
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: a-driver on February 22, 2015, 21:29:52 The train that hit the debris has suffered damage so I would assume both lines were badly obstructed and the photo has been taken after the train had passed through which would be why there is no debris on the railhead itself.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: JayMac on February 22, 2015, 21:32:59 I think that picture deserves one of my...
Crikey! We should also be grateful that the vehicle that hit the parapet didn't end up on the tracks. That could have been another Oxshott: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11702877 Or worse, Great Heck. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Heck_rail_crash :o Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: Palfers on February 22, 2015, 22:32:20 Feel sorry for the hst load of people what happend to them taxis or was a bustitute sorted out surely they wernt told to wait for the next train?
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: bobm on February 22, 2015, 22:38:56 The train is now moving under its own power to Westbury (currently over 4 hours late). Passengers will then be transferred to an empty HST for their journey onto the West Country.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: BBM on February 22, 2015, 22:47:26 The train is now moving under its own power to Westbury (currently over 4 hours late). Passengers will then be transferred to an empty HST for their journey onto the West Country. From RTT it looks like an empty HST was sent from Bristol towards Bedwyn but never got any further east than Lavington for some reason: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O75807/2015/02/22/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O75807/2015/02/22/advanced) Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: bobm on February 22, 2015, 22:48:24 Think it was turned back to Westbury once the failed train got moving again.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: BBM on February 22, 2015, 22:51:33 Think it was turned back to Westbury once the failed train got moving again. @dangilby has just Tweeted: "Now ended up back on the same train & heading to Westbury - turns out 800 passengers won't fit on a rural station platform #bedwyn" EDIT: RTT now showing that the rescue train appears to be heading west again from Lavington about 10 minutes behind 1C89 Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: LiskeardRich on February 22, 2015, 23:25:14 Looks like a very late arrival to penzance. They keep saying on Twitter that buses and taxis will be used onwards from exeter, but this has appeared in journey updates.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: JayMac on February 22, 2015, 23:28:00 Reading through @FGW on twitter and FGW on Facebook this afternoon/evening I have to say that the social media team have done an excellent job in keeping people informed. Particularly those tweeting from (or about people on) the affected train. Such direct Customer Service on a Sunday afternoon/evening would have been unthinkable as little as five years ago.
One father very concerned about his son getting to boarding school in Tiverton. FGW have also said on twitter that passengers will be compensated following this incident. An incident that would normally fall outside of FGW's Passenger Charter compensation commitments. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: JayMac on February 22, 2015, 23:31:35 Latest is a replacement HST running as 1Z89 2315 Westbury to Penzance.
I pity to people heading to quieter stations in Cornwall. Arriving at 2-3am... Latest from the incident site is that 33ft of Bridge parapet ended up on the tracks on the Reading side of the bridge. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: LiskeardRich on February 22, 2015, 23:32:19 Tonight's sleepers will have an interesting route I guess. They've got to go Honiton/Yeovil due to line closures in the taunton area, so at a guess they will then have to go via melksham after westbury or is there an alternative option?
Melksham will see a few extra trains today and tomorrow passing I would think? Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: LiskeardRich on February 22, 2015, 23:34:17 Latest is a replacement HST running as 1Z89 2315 Westbury to Penzance. I pity to people heading to quieter stations in Cornwall. Arriving at 2-3am... 0230 from Plymouth with a 0430 arrival into penzance. It's now being run past exeter as a spare driver and TM were found, due to the high number of passengers on board heading for cornwall. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: JayMac on February 22, 2015, 23:46:55 Least worst option from the operator's point of view.
Trying to find enough accommodation and/or onward road transport for a full and standing HST would probably have taken just as long as transferring passengers to another train and continuing the journey. Getting multiple hundreds of passengers from a quiet corner of Wiltshire, either to a bed for the night (and onward transport in the morning) or onto replacement transport to multiple destinations (remembering that this was a diverted service with scheduled calls at both Yeovil stations) would be a logistical nightmare. I just hope those for Taunton and Tiverton were catered for once the decision was made to provide a replacement HST from Westbury. Bit of a pain for them if they have to go to Exeter via Yeovil Junction and then get a taxi home. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: JayMac on February 23, 2015, 00:16:06 Looks like the Newbury Weekly News (http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/2015/train-services-disrupted-after-vehicle-crashes-into-railway-bridge) got the scoop:
Quote Train services between Newbury and Westbury are currently suspended after a lorry crashed into a railway bridge near Froxfield and a passing train hit debris. Wiltshire Police who are currently at the scene said that they are dealing with a single vehicle road traffic collision in which a large vehicle has collided with a now partially collapsed railway bridge at Oak Hill near Froxfield. Police said the collision which happened around 5.30pm tonight (Sunday) had caused ^some damage^ to the bridge which has left debris on the railway line. The 16.34 train service from London Paddington to Penzance subsequently hit the debris, with no reported injuries. National Rail said that train services had been suspended at Newbury because of the obstruction on the line between Bedwyn and Hungerford and that ^there is no firm estimate yet of how long disruption will last.^ Services between Westbury and Reading may divert via Chippenham and Melksham. West Country Travel said on Twitter that due to the partly collapsed bridge all lines are blocked and that trains to Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn and Pewsey will not be served. Disruption is now expected to continue into Monday morning rush hour. West Country Travel said: ^The train in question is reported full and standing ^ no injuries to passengers and now First Great Western are looking to rescue them ^ the means by which this will be achieved still being arranged (empty train about to leave Bristol to stand by at Westbury).^ Not quite sure who 'West Country Travel' are though. ::) Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 23, 2015, 00:22:42 Journalists, eh? ::) ;D
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: LiskeardRich on February 23, 2015, 00:32:58 BNM CfN they are an actual source...
https://mobile.twitter.com/wctrav The truck involved is a Stobart lorry. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 23, 2015, 00:37:45 In which case, my apologies. :o
How do they apparently have the ability to provide more up to date and detailed information than First Great Western? ::) Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: LiskeardRich on February 23, 2015, 00:45:41 In which case, my apologies. :o How do they apparently have the ability to provide more up to date and detailed information than First Great Western? ::) I wondered that myself. Their website is informative. They seem to have a number of sources for info. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: JayMac on February 23, 2015, 00:59:43 How do they apparently have the ability to provide more up to date and detailed information than First Great Western? ::) I suspect they have access to certain industry feeds. Or are very good at watching RealTime Trains minute by minute. No. Definitely the former based on what they've posted. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: JayMac on February 23, 2015, 02:07:46 The latest is that Network Rail have checked the rails with ultrasonic equipment and the less high tech LPT (Liquid Penetrative Testing) dye test. Superficial damage to the rails and a couple of sleepers with minor damage that can be replaced at a later date.
Also, it's been determined that it's safe for trains to run under the damaged overbridge. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on February 23, 2015, 09:28:18 Time for phones to be fitted to bridges to enable emergency calls to signallers to alert them? Or at least signs with a phone contact number perhaps? (a lot cheaper option - but puts numbers into public domain)
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: stuving on February 23, 2015, 10:07:36 Time for phones to be fitted to bridges to enable emergency calls to signallers to alert them? Or at least signs with a phone contact number perhaps? (a lot cheaper option - but puts numbers into public domain) They should already have them*, according to the relevant document (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/ResponsetoaBridgeStrikeovertheRailway.pdf). Part of the standard notice wording should read: "In the event of any road vehicle striking this bridge please phone THE RAIL AUTHORITY on 020 7928 2090". However, the document starts by saying: Quote 3.1 Network Rail is carrying out a programme to install identification plates at all bridges over the railway. These plates give contact details to enable a bridge strike to be promptly reported to Network Rail Operations Control. Generally, two identification plates are installed on each bridge, in positions where the public should be able to read the instructions. The principle that identification plates as shown in Appendix A may be erected by Network Rail on bridges over the railway not owned by Network Rail has been accepted. The agreement of the bridge owner to the location of the plates, the method of fixing, and arrangements for their installation and maintenance is to be obtained. Identification plates should record the ownership of the bridge. That was dated 2008, so I guess they will not have put them up everywhere yet. * Notices, not phones. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on February 23, 2015, 10:18:08 I've seen a couple - not exactly "in-your-face" as a driver though.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: bobm on February 23, 2015, 11:08:58 I understand the driver whose train hit the debris was the same driver who was involved in the fallen signal incident near Newbury. He must hate the Berks & Hants line.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: tomL on February 23, 2015, 13:22:19 I understand the driver whose train hit the debris was the same driver who was involved in the fallen signal incident near Newbury. He must hate the Berks & Hants line. In the words of Del Boy "Stay lucky!...." Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: hoover50 on February 23, 2015, 16:00:39 FGW have also said on twitter that passengers will be compensated following this incident. An incident that would normally fall outside of FGW's Passenger Charter compensation commitments. I guess the insurance company of the lorry involved is going to have to stump up rather a lot of dosh in compensation to Network Rail and FGW :-[ Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 23, 2015, 16:25:32 FGW have also said on twitter that passengers will be compensated following this incident. An incident that would normally fall outside of FGW's Passenger Charter compensation commitments. I guess the insurance company of the lorry involved is going to have to stump up rather a lot of dosh in compensation to Network Rail and FGW :-[ Do you mean in respect of Consequential losses? .......now which is the organisation that always refuses to do so? ;) In all seriousness though, a great effort by NE's engineers to get it up and running again in time for this morning's rush hour. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: JayMac on February 23, 2015, 17:09:23 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-31583420):
Quote Passengers stranded for hours after train hits debris (http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/81172000/jpg/_81172969_81172968.jpg) A lorry hit the east wall of the railway bridge at Froxfield causing debris to fall on to the track Hundreds of passengers were left stranded for several hours after a train hit debris on a railway line in Wiltshire. The debris had fallen from a bridge after it was struck by a lorry in Froxfield on Sunday. The driver of the First Great Western 16:34 service from London Paddington to Penzance needed treatment for shock but no other injuries were reported. Network Rail said the line had since been reopened after repairs were made. Andy Mellors, deputy managing director of First Great Western, said: "The train ran into the debris and caused some damaged to the underneath of the train including the braking system and that meant the train had to have some attention on site before we could get it to move forward." He added the train company would be carrying out a review into what happened so any lessons could be learned from it. One passenger told BBC Wiltshire: "All of a sudden there was an almighty bang, the lights went out and that was it. "We all looked at each other and panicked and thought what has just happened, have we derailed, what's gone on?" She said passengers initially thought the train had struck a tree. The train was moved on by 23.30 GMT after emergency repairs were made. (http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/81174000/jpg/_81174149_81174148.jpg) The rubble from the railway bridge has now been cleared from the railway track Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on February 23, 2015, 17:12:44 let's hope Mr Stobart doesn't send another errant truck that way until the repairs have been made....hate to think what might happen.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: stuving on February 23, 2015, 17:34:55 let's hope Mr Stobart doesn't send another errant truck that way until the repairs have been made....hate to think what might happen. Indeed, and it's not left to chance. As it says in the introduction to "Response to a Bridge Strike over the Railway": Quote 1.3 When a bridge parapet is significantly damaged or even totally demolished in a bridge strike, urgent action is required to put interim arrangements in place to enable train services to be restored with minimum delay whilst maintaining the safety of the railway and the highway or road pending reconstruction or repairs. Interim arrangements which include traffic management and temporary safety barriers and fencing, must be sufficient to prevent an errant vehicle from landing on the railway. There has been an occurrence of a second bridge strike before damage from a previous strike has been reconstructed or repaired resulting in a vehicle on the railway, when the robustness of the interim arrangements was insufficient. Later, there is a section called "Acceptable temporary safety barriers and fencing", and where the Highways Agency are involved you''ll have to use something off their "LIST OF EN1317 COMPLIANT ROAD RESTRAINT SYSTEMS (http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ha/standards/tech_info/files/List%20of%20EN1317%20Compliant%20RRS%20January%202015%20-%20Final.pdf)" Incidentally, the following note also appears in that procedure: Quote The Highways Agency considers that Network Rail Operations Control should not be provided with telephone numbers of Highways Agency control centres, but that the 999 system should be used. Police will forward the call to the appropriate control centre. Now why does that not surprise me? Something to do with their reputation, I think. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: thetrout on February 23, 2015, 17:56:48 Time for phones to be fitted to bridges to enable emergency calls to signallers to alert them? Or at least signs with a phone contact number perhaps? (a lot cheaper option - but puts numbers into public domain) There are already. Some of them showing their age as they reference "Railtrack" However if you're in a single vehicle collision with a bridge as a sole driver with no passengers and become seriously injured... It might make phoning Network Rail impossible... So a different solution may be needed. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: hoover50 on February 24, 2015, 08:35:34 From the Gazzete & Herald:
A train ^jumped^ off the tracks in Froxfield, near Marlborough, when it hit debris that had been knocked onto the railway line by a lorry which collided with a bridge. Train services between Pewsey and Hungerford were severely disrupted after the Eddie Stobart lorry hit the bridge at Oak Hill at around 5.15pm last night. The 4.34pm First Great Western train from Paddington to Penzance collided with the debris at around 5.25pm. No passengers were injured but the train was unable to be moved until around 10pm while safety checks were carried out on both the train and bridge. Boat owner David Hartland, who moors near to where the incident happened, said:^I looked out of the window of my boat and I could see this lorry was stuck. It shouldn^t have been on the bridge but it must have been following a sat-nav. ^The bridge fell onto a track as a whole and there was another guy who was just driving past and he stopped and rang the police straight away to tell them to stop the trains. ^About five or ten minutes later the train came along and hit the bridge and then jumped off the track and landed back on it and then it jumped about a mile up the track. ^It was quite an event. All I heard was crash, bang, wallop.^ Network Rail engineers worked through the night to clear the track and make sure the bridge is safe. A spokesman said: ^Staff from both Network Rail and First Great Western were despatched to site immediately. ^Both lines to and from Westbury were closed, with services diverted via Melksham, while work took place to clear the debris, repair the train and secure the bridge.^ The train arrived at Westbury at around 11pm and the line reopened at approximately 5am today. Road replacement coaches, taxis and additional train services were put on while the line was closed. A First Great Western spokesman said: "We're very grateful that no-one was injured in what could have been a much more serious incident, and would like to thank all the passengers on board for their patience in difficult circumstances while we worked to get people moving as quickly and safely as possible. "Full refunds have been offered to everyone on board, and we will be contacting each of them to see if there is anything further we can do to help." Customers on other services delayed by this incident are likely to be entitled to compensation. http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/towns/marlboroughheadlines/11811680.Rail_services_delayed_after_train_hits_rubble_on_track_at_Froxfield/ Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on February 24, 2015, 10:16:46 Quote ^About five or ten minutes later the train came along and hit the bridge and then jumped off the track and landed back on it and then it jumped about a mile up the track. yeah, right. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: a-driver on February 24, 2015, 11:56:52 If that was how it was reported to the police that the train "jumped off the track and landed back on it" and then "jumped about a mile up the track" then the witness has very good eyesight!
I would imagine a report like that would mean that the whole train would have been inspected as well as the track for any sign that part of the train had become derailed. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: Worcester_Passenger on February 24, 2015, 15:37:59 Where is Jenny Agutter when you need her?
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 24, 2015, 15:38:21 Quote ^About five or ten minutes later the train came along and hit the bridge and then jumped off the track and landed back on it and then it jumped about a mile up the track. yeah, right. Typical.............surely it could have jumped OVER the debris? ;D Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: thetrout on February 24, 2015, 17:22:54 Must have been the wrong sort of rocks........... (groan)
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: Palfers on February 24, 2015, 19:24:59 Haha I'm just imagining the hst going around like the opening credits on have I got news for you!
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: stuving on March 11, 2015, 10:24:12 Quote RAIB is investigating a collision between a high speed train (HST) and a bridge parapet which had fallen onto the railway at Oak Hill, an unclassified road off the A4 on the edge of the village of Froxfield, between Hungerford and Bedwyn. The accident occurred at about 17:31 hrs on Sunday 22 February 2015, when the heavily loaded 16:34 hrs First Great Western service from London Paddington to Penzance (train reporting number 1C89) hit brick debris while travelling at about 90 mph (145 km/h). The train driver had no opportunity to brake before hitting the debris, and the impact lifted the front of the train. Fortunately, the train did not derail, and the driver applied the emergency brake. The train stopped after travelling a further 730 metres (800 yards). There were no injuries. The leading power car sustained underframe damage and there was damage to the train^s braking system. The bridge parapet had originally been struck at about 17:20 hrs by a reversing articulated lorry. The lorry driver had turned off the A4 at a junction just north of the railway bridge, and crossed over the railway before encountering a canal bridge 40 metres further on which he considered to be too narrow for his vehicle. A pair of road signs located just south of the A4 junction warn vehicle drivers of a hump back bridge and double bends but there were no weight or width restriction signs. The lorry driver stopped before the canal bridge and attempted to reverse round a bend and back over the railway bridge without assistance, and was unaware when the rear of his trailer first made contact with, and then toppled, the brick parapet on the east side of the railway bridge. The entire parapet, weighing around 13 tonnes, fell onto the railway, obstructing both tracks. This was witnessed by a car driver who was travelling behind the lorry. The car driver left his vehicle to alert the lorry driver and he then contacted the emergency services by dialing 999 on his mobile phone at about 17:21 hrs. (http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Froxfield.jpg) Image of debris on track before the collision, looking east. Train 1C89 approached on the right-hand track (image courtesy of a member of the public)RAIB^s investigation will consider the sequence of events and factors that led to the accident. The investigation will include a review of the adequacy of road signage and the overall response to the emergency call made by the motorist who witnessed the collapse of the bridge parapet. It will identify any safety lessons from the accident and post-accident response. RAIB^s investigation is independent of any investigations by the railway industry or safety authority. We will publish our findings at the conclusion of the investigation. This report will be available on our website. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on March 11, 2015, 10:31:48 Here's hoping that plates with emergency numbers are recommended NOT to be affixed to bridge parapets....
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: stuving on March 11, 2015, 10:34:43 Here's hoping that plates with emergency numbers are recommended NOT to be affixed to bridge parapets.... Why not? Is it that likely anyone will demolish them on both sides?Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on March 11, 2015, 10:38:02 Who knows? Is it likely that trucks will reverse back into bridge parapets?
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: Trowres on March 11, 2015, 13:49:18 Dialled 999 - about 17:21
HST at 90mph hit debris - about 17:31 Still something to be said for red knickers on a stick...hope some improvements come out of this as the issue is nationwide. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: LiskeardRich on March 11, 2015, 14:47:14 Who knows? Is it likely that trucks will reverse back into bridge parapets? Is this the second occurrence in recent times or have their been other instances. The other instance I'm aware of was the concrete mixer falling onto a train through a parapet. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: LiskeardRich on March 11, 2015, 14:49:51 Dialled 999 - about 17:21 HST at 90mph hit debris - about 17:31 Still something to be said for red knickers on a stick...hope some improvements come out of this as the issue is nationwide. Somebody is going to have questions to answer if those timings are correct. But whenever I've tried to report an emergency the emergency call has taken so long before they even decide what to do, I fear this may come down to the 999 operators delays and questioning process. 10 mins to take a 999 call, relay to signaller, stop trains is a little concerning Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on March 11, 2015, 14:55:38 Oh God, it takes the 999 operator several minutes to collect all your details & details of the event you're reporting. I also suspect they don't have direct contact to the correct signalling centre (why would they, they're not rail related & working out where each signalling centre is & what area it covers isn't there job) and only call a central NR centre....where they do have to locate the event & relay the message.
Not a hope in 10 minutes. Only way would be to put the right phone number on each bridge. But then it's open to pranksters. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: bobm on March 11, 2015, 15:05:59 Only way would be to put the right phone number on each bridge. But then it's open to pranksters. Precedent already set - numbers are on many level crossings. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: brizzlechris on March 11, 2015, 15:17:29 There already seems to be a more direct number (assuming it is still current) in situ at some locations...
e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/1hlOd Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: PhilWakely on March 11, 2015, 18:21:32 There already seems to be a more direct number (assuming it is still current) in situ at some locations... e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/1hlOd I've seen these signs on a number of bridges where the railway goes over the road, but have not seen any where the road goes over the railway. I am intrigued about repair techniques as well. Here is the result of an incident that occurred about 20 years ago (not directly above the track admittedly). The 'temporary repair' as it was described then has been replaced several times since! https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.73778,-3.477733,3a,75y,6.41h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdSRiWz_dXSDpow6QONHELw!2e0 (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.73778,-3.477733,3a,75y,6.41h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdSRiWz_dXSDpow6QONHELw!2e0) Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: stuving on March 11, 2015, 18:37:37 I've seen these signs on a number of bridges where the railway goes over the road, but have not seen any where the road goes over the railway. Here's a repeat of something I posted less than three weeks ago: They should already have them, according to the the relevant document (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/ResponsetoaBridgeStrikeovertheRailway.pdf). Quote 3.1 Network Rail is carrying out a programme to install identification plates at all bridges over the railway. These plates give contact details to enable a bridge strike to be promptly reported to Network Rail Operations Control. Generally, two identification plates are installed on each bridge, in positions where the public should be able to read the instructions. The principle that identification plates as shown in Appendix A may be erected by Network Rail on bridges over the railway not owned by Network Rail has been accepted. The agreement of the bridge owner to the location of the plates, the method of fixing, and arrangements for their installation and maintenance is to be obtained. Identification plates should record the ownership of the bridge. That was dated 2008, so I guess they will not have put them up everywhere yet. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: Super Guard on March 12, 2015, 09:44:04 Oh God, it takes the 999 operator several minutes to collect all your details & details of the event you're reporting. I also suspect they don't have direct contact to the correct signalling centre (why would they, they're not rail related & working out where each signalling centre is & what area it covers isn't there job) and only call a central NR centre....where they do have to locate the event & relay the message. Not a hope in 10 minutes. Only way would be to put the right phone number on each bridge. But then it's open to pranksters. Perhaps the 24 hour central NR emergency number: 03457 11 41 41 should get more awareness (or given a simplified 3 digit number most can remember). https://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/1346.aspx Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: stuving on March 12, 2015, 10:08:35 Perhaps the 24 hour central NR emergency number: 03457 11 41 41 should get more awareness (or given a simplified 3 digit number most can remember). The reference document cited above (Response to a Bridge Strike over the Railway: A Protocol for Highway and Road Managers, Police and Bridge Owners / April 2008 / NR/GPG/CIV/007) shows the number 020 7928 2090 in the examples of bridge-mounted plates is. That seems to be a Wessex emergency number; presumably plates elsewhere would have numbers for other regions' control centres. The text does not mention the phone number and how it is chosen. I imagine that, when these plates were first used, a local number would have been important. Given almost all calls will now be from mobiles, even the concept of a local number is irrelevant. Given the changes in numbering for free and public service calls, especially from mobiles, a new national number would seem quite sensible - even if it is routed to a local centre. At first sight it seems hard to justify the cost of changing all the plates - but assuming every bridge is inspected quite often, that may not be the case. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on March 12, 2015, 10:27:03 From a mobile, it couldn't tell where the 'local' number was.
Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: stuving on March 12, 2015, 10:59:14 From a mobile, it couldn't tell where the 'local' number was. What "it"? The phone system, for routing? Of course it does.All cell phone systems have to track every phone from cell to cell to call it, and usually have extra information about where it is within a cell. Currently none of this is handed over to outsiders except with an emergency call (under the E112 directive). There was a plan to make mobile networks add equipment to give better accuracy than that, but it seems to have been given up. Later this year is (in theory) the launch of eCall. That will put a little box on every new car, that has Satellite positioning, which will make an automatic emergency call if it detects an accident (or if you press a button). That call arrives at the PSAP (public-safety answering point) with satnav-quality positioning accompanying it. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on March 12, 2015, 11:15:26 Given the changes in numbering for free and public service calls, especially from mobiles, a new national number would seem quite sensible - even if it is routed to a local centre. This national number would not be able to determine the place of the mobile call, which is what I was referring to. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: LiskeardRich on March 12, 2015, 18:21:49 From a mobile, it couldn't tell where the 'local' number was. Yes it could, the AA can track you to within 50m from where your mobile is when you call them. Last time I broke down I didn't know where I was, and told he AA that. The woman on the phone was able to tell me the location my phone was transmitting from which was in fact about 10 metres away from where I actaully was. The bigger problem is if called from an office, as many offices use remote phone lines routed through servers that could be anywhere in the country. My office in cornwall half our outgoing lines have 0116 codes the other half have 01923 which is Watford. An ambulance was required about 18 months ago and 999 connected to Hertfordshire ambulance service. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: stuving on March 12, 2015, 19:43:06 From a mobile, it couldn't tell where the 'local' number was. Yes it could, the AA can track you to within 50m from where your mobile is when you call them. Last time I broke down I didn't know where I was, and told he AA that. The woman on the phone was able to tell me the location my phone was transmitting from which was in fact about 10 metres away from where I actaully was. Interesting. That appears to be illegal, unless you gave your permission for it. If your phone did the locating (via its GPS), you may perhaps have done that by enabling that feature. But while the AA like to call themselves the fourth emergancy service, legally they are not one. While some new legislation may have sneaked through, I think this is still covered by The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003 (SI 2003 No. 2426). The relevant sections are: Quote Restrictions on the processing of location data 14.^(1) This regulation shall not apply to the processing of traffic data. (2) Location data relating to a user or subscriber of a public electronic communications network or a public electronic communications service may only be processed^ (a)where that user or subscriber cannot be identified from such data; or (b)where necessary for the provision of a value added service, with the consent of that user or subscriber. (3) Prior to obtaining the consent of the user or subscriber under paragraph (2)(b), the public communications provider in question must provide the following information to the user or subscriber to whom the data relate^ (a)the types of location data that will be processed; (b)the purposes and duration of the processing of those data; and (c)whether the data will be transmitted to a third party for the purpose of providing the value added service. (4) A user or subscriber who has given his consent to the processing of data under paragraph (2)(b) shall^ (a)be able to withdraw such consent at any time, and (b)in respect of each connection to the public electronic communications network in question or each transmission of a communication, be given the opportunity to withdraw such consent, using a simple means and free of charge. (5) Processing of location data in accordance with this regulation shall^ (a)only be carried out by^ (i)the public communications provider in question; (ii)the third party providing the value added service in question; or (iii)a person acting under the authority of a person falling within (i) or (ii); and (b)where the processing is carried out for the purposes of the provision of a value added service, be restricted to what is necessary for those purposes. Quote Emergency calls 16.^(1) For the purposes of this regulation, ^emergency calls^ means calls to either the national emergency call number 999 or the single European emergency call number 112. (2) In order to facilitate responses to emergency calls^ (a)all such calls shall be excluded from the requirements of regulation 10; (b)no person shall be entitled to prevent the presentation on the connected line of the identity of the calling line; and (c)the restriction on the processing of location data under regulation 14(2) shall be disregarded. There are a number of amendments made in The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) (Amendment) Regulations 2011 (SI 2011 No. 1208). However, the only relevant one I can see is to the definition of "location data" in section 2, adding the italicised words in: Quote ^location data^ means any data processed in an electronic communications network or by an electronic communications service indicating the geographical position of the terminal equipment of a user of a public electronic communications service, including data relating to^ (f)the latitude, longitude or altitude of the terminal equipment; (g)the direction of travel of the user; or (h)the time the location information was recorded; It should be easy to find information about this, and how to opt in and out, from your mobile provider - like on their website - shouldn't it? Apparently not. Title: Re: Bridge strike near Hungerford - 22 Feb 15 Post by: ChrisB on March 13, 2015, 10:32:11 Yes, it's done via the gps, and it needs a real person to look at the data on a map.
Software that re-routes calls to a central number to the 'right' signalling centre can't do this. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |