Great Western Coffee Shop

I had to travel to worcester the other Saturday, xmas shopping, so decided to catch the 13.21 from Evesham. The booking office at Evesham is closed by then so as normal one would purchase a ticket from the train manager, 9as i have done many times in the past)
The train arrived on time, I and about 30 others also boarded it, we were slightly delayed departing as we had to wait the arrival of the london train, which the train manager did alert us to.  So we set off, on reaching Pershore, no sign of the train manager, about another 20 people got on the train, and away we went again.
We arrived at shrub hill, again no sign of the train manager, then the quick trip to forgate street.

I have NEVER not paid my way on any train, but is this not good practice for FGW, i would hate to think how much revenue was lost. There are signs everywhere regarding fare dodging, fair enough if there are other methods of getting a ticket ie, automatic machines, but Evesham and pershore and others along the route do not have those, so passengers rely on the train manager collecting fairs on such services.

Im guessing FGW were being in a festive mood, or the train manager just couldnt be bothered to do his job!!. I only had to make a one way trip, so maybe those returning did get a ticket for the trip back!!.

As a footnote, i have travelled to london a few times with no ticket checks being made, it does make you wonder about those that get away with persistant fare dodging, it seems so easy to do.

I forgot to mention, the train was a 3 car a Turbo and i was in the rear car !!

Hi, Shaun, and welcome to the forum

"Revenue Protection" (i.e. making sure fares are paid) is a major issue and it's probably fair to say that it's presently improving somewhat from how it used to be, but there is still an awful lot of "leakage" - not only with regard to people who want to pay but aren't offered an opportunity, but also with regard to people who take deliberate action to avoid paying when they could.

Looking back a couple of years, there probably weren't enough revenue protection staff, and the on-train ticket machines were / are getting old so there were too-frequent cases that the conductors couldn't issue tickets.  The old fashioned way of writing out a ticket by hand cannot, apparently, be used any more.   After a shocking long lead time, I understand that additional "Avantix" machines have arrived or are due, and that more revenue staff are available too.

Under the previous franchise, something called "cap and collar" meant that any additional money taken (by roving ticket staff, for example) went 20% to First and 80% to the DfT, which as First had to pay the extra ticket staff meant that they had to collect 500 pounds to pay 100 pounds in wages and equipment and other costs - it was rather like an 80% tax.   I'm relieved that's now changes, and hence the move forward on revenue collection but it's a long process as is so much with the railways.

I'm actually relieved to see that this was a single incident ... that news should help discourage others reading this from trying it on as a regular way to get free travel, and in the big scheme of things the occasional free ride isn't a massive problem - never the less, I suspect your post will be read by someone in 'the know' and a quick check on what went wrong will be made.

Your single fare from Evesham was probably ^7.10 ... a return would have been ^7.20.   Assuming those returning on the way back had to pay, they will have saved themselves the princely sum of 10p

And finally - thank you for posting this.  It's not only for revenue protection that these things need to be sorted - it's also to ensure true recording of passenger numbers.   As services are changed over coming years, incomes and journey number figures are a major input, and a severe revenue hiccough could result in significant train service changes.

FGW do now have a Tevenue Protection team for that area. It's only a few in number & maybe their shift was elsewhere that day?

Thank you for your welcome and concise reply. I do remember last year too, i was doing a trip to didcot with my son and was due to change at oxford, and i had to hunt down the train manager to pay just after we left charlbury. I personally didnt want to be in an embarrassing position of not having a ticket if checked on the oxford / didcot leg of the journey. I did find the manager...chatting away to the buffet car staff !!.  It may well be the case that due to the frequency of stops and the amount of people that board the trains that head towards London in the morning, they simply dont have time, i would guess that they are checked after oxford, but many do get off at oxford and there are barriers there.

Thanks for your interesting and useful comments, shaun H - and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum from me, too.  :)

I managed to get all the way from Maidenhead to Bristol Temple Meads and then all the way back from there to Paddington yesterday (lost property issue!) with no ticket check...Quite shocking really.. I had a ticket btw..

I've been in a variety of situations when it comes to fare checks:

On one end of the scale I've been stung for getting an earlier (quieter) train with an advance ticket and ended up paying for it (Paddington to Swindon). And at the other end one Saturday I ended up getting the first train from Swindon in to London (06:11) and last one back (23:30) one check (well it was more a glance to see if I had a ticket like object) on the way at Paddington (while waiting to present my ticket and railcard) and no checks and open barriers on the way back.

And none of the staff really seem to care I have a railcard either. If I wasn't as honest as I am I could have gotten away with a handful of recent trips I've made without paying my way.

Have also seen several people block/jump the unmanned ticket barrier upstairs at Swindon and carry on their way freely.

...I'm sure FGW are working on it though, as said above.  ::) ;D

Some random thoughts which turned into a bit of an analysis (up early this morning / but not working "earlies")

a) Opportunity to buy the correct ticket(s) - from "best" through to "ouch"
- easily provided at departure station or soon after joining initial train
- provided at departure station but difficult to access
- available later en-route without you having to seek it out
- available later en-route with you having to seek it out
- provided prior to exit from a controlled area at destination
- available after passing out of controlled area at destination
- not available at all

There are four categories of fare evasion
- People who don't pay because they take steps to avoid paying
- People who don't pay because they don't have an opportunity
- People who intentionally pay below the correct minimum fare(s)
- People who accidentally pay below the correct minimum fare(s)

b) Ticket inspection - where
- to enable entry to controlled area
- during travel on train
- to enable exit from a controlled area
- nowhere (i.e. none of the above)

b) Ticket inspection - frequency
- virtually every journey
- sometimes
- rarely / hardly ever

The thoroughness of ticket inspections tend (at times, I suspect) to be based on a quick visual profile, and how deeply they go in checking railcards, etc, based also on the demeanour of the passenger. So "didn't bother to check my rail card" is almost like a badge of trust.

Ticketting duties for a train manager come behind safety duties, and train dispatch and running duties.  And those duties sometimes involve exchanging information with other staff members, or indeed advising passengers rather than selling tickets. If there are one or two awkward tickets, or a lot of people joining at a station without ticket sales, it can be impractical to check everyone joining before the next station.  Bear in mind that the railway has grown far faster than was planned in the last decade and that systems are having to cope with numbers for which they were not designed.

I travel between Paddington and Bristol TM fairly often and have never once had my ticket checked. On my connecting service to/from Yatton it is generally always checked.

There's only one station that those trains call out through the day that doesn't (yet) have barriers, and one other where some platforms are not barriered.  So there is an element of alternative checking in play. Having said that, the network's complex and there are some times that the barriers are unstaffed and left open, so there no guarantee that you will be checked at either end of your journey

I travel between Swindon and Nailsea daily and probably get my ticket checked around 1 in 3 journeys. When I travel from Swindon to London I get my ticket checked most times. So I'm very surprised at your comment that you've never had your ticket checked.

Might there be a difference in the pattern of checking tickets between first class and standard class?

I tend to travel off peak in the afternoons at weekends. The trains are generally quiet so I see no reason why ticket checks cannot be made. Whilst I agree Paddington has barriers, my last journey was from platform 8 so I didn't need a ticket to enter the station.

Maybe, but my travel between SWI and PAD is standard class, and as I said, on those journeys my ticket is usually checked (I'd say around 2/3rds of the times).

I could have used my season ticket to get through the barriers at Maidenhead though and travelled for free it seems.. I guess my journey was slightly out of the ordinary as I wasn't actually leaving Bristol Temple Meads (though since the lost property office is there I guess it's not that an unusual situation) and we too came into platform 8 at Paddington so no check there either.. I did note it was the same train manager (and in fact the same train :-)) on both journeys..

Whilst there may be barriers at stations between Paddington and Bristol TM served by high speed services, excepting some platforms at PAD and all of Chippenham, there still should be regular checks on board. Barriers aren't intelligent enough to check someone is on the right train with an Advance, they can't check that someone is dumb-belling, they are of no use checking someone who has started at an unbarriered station and has interchanged at say, Reading or Didcot, they can't prevent someone travelling in 1st Class on a Standard ticket.

Agreed, I find it frustrating that I bother to pay to travel and nobody is there to check. It's no wonder so many people choose to evade their fares!

Because of a lack of on board ticket checks today, First Great Western lost out on ^5 from me. Ready, willing and able to pay my Weekend First upgrade from Taunton to Newton Abbot, but a noticeably absent TM meant the ^5 stayed in my pocket.

My travelling companion was due to pay a ^15 upgrade having travelled much further than me. He too was not presented with an opportunity to do so.

Presumably you were thus unable to claim your 'free' 1st class drink & biccies though without your 1st class upgrade proof?

Complimentary refreshments were offered and declined soon after I boarded. I was actually quite surprised to see a 1st Class Host on FGW during Twixmas.  :P

I had come prepared with some ales to enjoy with my travelling companion. Three bottles of Hobgoblin for a fiver from Spar. 1st Class Host kindly fetched some tumblers for us to drink them from. ;D

A little update from my initial starting post on this topic, on new years eve i took my 9 year old son to birmingham from cheltenham spa, using cross country services. We got the tickets from the station (i have a railcard so used that too), you then have to pass through the barriers. On board the train after about 10 mins we were checked including the railcard by the TM. At new street, no checks were made.
On the return journey, no check at new street, but again on the train a full check. Incidently, a girl had boarded the train at NS with no ticket, the TM made it very clear to her that she should have purchased a ticket BEFORE getting on the train as he issued her a ticket.
I have travelled using XC many times and have always been checked at some point, it just seems FGW arent so bothered, one thing i have noticed with FGW is that the TM will go through the train collecting fares from unstaffed stations, but not check tickets of those already on board, which can give rise to the dishonest traveller trying their luck !!

If FGW stopped once between Worcester & say, Charlbury, I'm sure you'd be checked. If XC stopped at Worcester or Bromsgrove, say, I don't they'd check you.

Mostly down to distance between stops