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Title: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: signalandtelegraph on January 18, 2008, 12:39:44 Not sure if this has been posted before but have a look at page 16. Presumably in preparation for stock cascade following implementation of Crossrail? :o
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/StrategicBusinessPlan/R4%20-%20Wessex.pdf (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/StrategicBusinessPlan/R4%20-%20Wessex.pdf) Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Shazz on January 18, 2008, 14:34:28 Long wayto go yet to get Crossrail, and i'm sure it'll get canceled like the last 2-3 times it has been already...
Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Lee on January 18, 2008, 14:42:22 signalandtelegraph is (I assume) referring to a plan for gauge clearance for Class 165/166 units on the Portsmouth-Cardiff and Westbury-Weymouth routes.
Some way from approval methinks, as it is part of the Network Rail Discretionary Fund CP4 Candidate Schemes list. Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Shazz on January 18, 2008, 14:47:35 arnt they all the same gauge anyway?
Or have i missed something here... Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Lee on January 18, 2008, 15:02:08 arnt they all the same gauge anyway? Or have i missed something here... Example quotes from the Save The Train forum : Graham did I hear you mention at one of the meetings that these 166 units wont 'fit' through Trowbridge station? There was some talk along those lines, Nick, yes. It's not an easy "wll fit" / "won't fit" scenario, I don't think ... I learnt more about this later. It's that the Thames Turbos haven't actually been tried out on the route and they're slightly wider so they're not officially cleared, Trowbridge station being (it is said) the narrowest point. Real problem? Don't know!! Although I suggested that the 166-s be used on Oxford / Salisbury, ther could be other alternatives that are multi-step offered by the extra stock availability. Or in plainer English, the 166-s could be used on a service where the line WILL take them, and release 158-s or similar for Oxford - Salisbury Another reason for doing this could be that the London-Reading corridor is in line for some of the DfT's 1300 carriages (see quote below.) The link below details where the 1,300 carriages (assuming they get built) are likely to be deployed. http://www.dft.gov.uk/about/strategy/whitepapers/whitepapercm7176/railwphlsospecimen Regarding the FGW area, the London-Reading corridor is battling it out with services in the Southeastern, Southern, South West Trains, Chiltern, London Midland, FCC, One and c2c areas for a share of around 900 extra coaches. Bristol is battling it out with Leicester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Nottingham and Sheffield for a share of around 50-80 carriages. In theory, this could release some Turbos for the Wessex routes. Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: John R on January 18, 2008, 20:44:54 Turbos were built wider than standard stock as they were designed to run only on the GW main line, which was engineered to Brunel's Broad Gauge. So they can't run on most other lines.
Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: vacman on January 19, 2008, 11:29:56 We don't wan't those horrible things! we wan't more 158's!
Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: dog box on January 19, 2008, 19:55:56 We don't wan't those horrible things! we wan't more 158's! totally agree........seems to be a bit of an illusion on here at times that people think just because its newer it must be better which is in fact very wide of the mark..a 150/158 is always a better bet than a turbo Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Shazz on January 19, 2008, 19:57:10 I don't see why the rubos don't get deployed round brizzle, would make far more sence...
Or even devon/cornwall for that matter! Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: smokey on January 20, 2008, 12:22:32 Be a Cold Day in Hell before a class 166 runs into Cornwall.
The Thames Turbo unit's were built to a bigger loading gauge than most stock, which keeps them to London-Oxford-Worcester, not sure think maybe able to work Didcot to Bristol, as there was a Oxford-Bristol TM service which I think was Thames Turbo worked. Need meggar bucks spent to clear a class 166 to work to Penzance. Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Jim on January 20, 2008, 12:24:14 Be a Cold Day in Hell before a class 166 runs into Cornwall. The Thames Turbo unit's were built to a bigger loading gauge than most stock, which keeps them to London-Oxford-Worcester, not sure think maybe able to work Didcot to Bristol, as there was a Oxford-Bristol TM service which I think was Thames Turbo worked. Need meggar bucks spent to clear a class 166 to work to Penzance. There was indeed an Oxford-Bristol TM, which was worked by Turbo's. Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: vacman on January 20, 2008, 18:42:50 Orrible unit's, think i'd rather travel on a 143! 165's are about the most uncomfortable unit's on the network with their horrible hard seats!
Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Conner on January 20, 2008, 20:48:40 Orrible unit's, think i'd rather travel on a 143! 165's are about the most uncomfortable unit's on the network with their horrible hard seats! 166's are okay for short distances though.I've only ever been on overcrowded 165's aswell which doesn't help my perception of them. Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Btline on January 27, 2008, 17:32:42 Chiltern operate Thames Turbos on their commuter lines. London to Aylebury, High Wycombe (even as far as Princes Risborough).
Maybe the European loading gauge helps here! Thames Turbos are dreadful. There is also evidence of them becoming clapped out (see my post on the "reliability" thread). Remember, when London Midland get 172s, the cascaded 150s will be pretty much clapped out- they are at the moment- they were banned from the Lickey Incline a few years ago, and they can hardly get up the Old Hill incline in B'ham at the moment!! Note: This only applies if the train stops at Old Hill when facing towards B'ham! I would have thought they might have to be scraped! I can't see them lasting in the Wessex region, especially under FGW, who are incompetent, and don't service trains (only spending time and money refreshing them- often for the worse). No- I would not get your hopes up just yet. Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Timmer on January 27, 2008, 17:40:15 We need the stock no matter what condition its in. They can't be any worse then the pacers that operate on FGW.
Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: smokey on January 27, 2008, 17:40:57 Chiltern operate Thames Turbos on their commuter lines. London to Aylebury, High Wycombe (even as far as Princes Risborough). Maybe the European loading gauge helps here! Thames Turbos are dreadful. There is also evidence of them becoming clapped out (see my post on the "reliability" thread). Remember, when London Midland get 172s, the cascaded 150s will be pretty much clapped out- they are at the moment- they were banned from the Lickey Incline a few years ago, and they can hardly get up the Old Hill incline in B'ham at the moment!! Note: This only applies if the train stops at Old Hill when facing towards B'ham! I would have thought they might have to be scraped! I can't see them lasting in the Wessex region, especially under FGW, who are incompetent, and don't service trains (only spending time and money refreshing them- often for the worse). No- I would not get your hopes up just yet. Totally agree train servicing is pretty dire, it wasn't a clever move by the powers to be, to shut the Main Engineering Works down and transfer all repairs to Depots. Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: mada on January 27, 2008, 19:59:05 I would have thought they might have to be scraped! I can't see them lasting in the Wessex region, especially under FGW, who are incompetent, and don't service trains (only spending time and money refreshing them- often for the worse). No- I would not get your hopes up just yet. I suppose FGW could re-engineer them same as the current refurbs i.e replace the engines. Have they considered using HST's on CDF to POM to free up some 158's? Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: qwerty on January 28, 2008, 16:19:02 Be a Cold Day in Hell before a class 166 runs into Cornwall. The Thames Turbo unit's were built to a bigger loading gauge than most stock, which keeps them to London-Oxford-Worcester, not sure think maybe able to work Didcot to Bristol, as there was a Oxford-Bristol TM service which I think was Thames Turbo worked. Need meggar bucks spent to clear a class 166 to work to Penzance. There was indeed an Oxford-Bristol TM, which was worked by Turbo's. From Memory, (I don't have a sectional appendix in front of me) 165/166's can work to Bristol from Swindon (not sure if that is via both routes). But are not permitted Bristol-WSM or Bristol-Westbury. But they are permitted Westbury-Taunton-Exeter. Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Lee on January 28, 2008, 19:37:42 I think that now might be a good time to do a "topic recap", for the benefit of anyone reading it for the first time.
In its Strategic Business Plan, Network Rail have proposed a gauge clearance scheme for Class 165/166 units on the Portsmouth-Cardiff and Westbury-Weymouth routes. It is part of the Network Rail Discretionary Fund CP4 Candidate Schemes list, and has not yet been approved. Title: Re: Stock Cascade Eventually? Post by: Lee on January 28, 2008, 20:02:47 From Memory, (I don't have a sectional appendix in front of me) 165/166's can work to Bristol from Swindon (not sure if that is via both routes). But are not permitted Bristol-WSM or Bristol-Westbury. But they are permitted Westbury-Taunton-Exeter. If true, this would be very interesting, as Jacobs Consultancy proposed running Turbos down to Weston as an extension of their Bristol-Oxford service option, which was rejected by the SRA (link below.) http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/lf/CoIUTS.xls Here is how Jacobs saw it (bearing in mind that they wrote their franchise reports in 2004) : Quote This option tests extension of some Oxford to Bristol services to Weston-Super-Mare, replacing the through train from Avonmouth in that hour. This option enables the busy 0735 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol to be operated by a 2-car class 165 unit and the 1727 return services to be operated by a 3-car class 165 formation. This offers both an increase in capacity over the 2 and 4-car class 143 respective formations employed on these trains and the opportunity to withdraw completely from one class 143 strengthening diagram. Overall the option saves one class 143 at the modest additional cost of one class 165 2-car diagram. The additional class 165 diagram is however able to be additionally utilised to operate the new morning train from Bristol to Oxford. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |