Title: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: grahame on September 28, 2014, 03:21:39 From the "Wiltshire Star" at the end of last week ...
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/batheng.jpg) Note - "Only 18 responses since July" to the Consultation (I wonder if that's because people don't know, or because people trust Network Rail to do understand users and do their best anyway, or because they don't mind) The web site for inputs mentioned in the article is: http://www.myenvolve.com/project/railelectrification It links to further detail at: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/great-western-route-modernisation/banes/ Quote The electrification of Bath^s railway moved a step closer today as Network Rail outlined how it plans to electrify the rail route through the city and on to Swansea via Bristol as part of its electrification of the Great Western Main Line. Electrification will open the way for a new generation of electric intercity trains to be introduced on routes serving Bath from 2017, meaning more seats, more legroom, more tables and a reduction in journey times for passengers. It will also deliver a greener, quieter, more reliable railway with fewer emissions being released into the atmosphere and a reduction in noise as electric trains replace existing diesel ones. Network Rail is undertaking a package of work in preparation for the electrification of the Bath railway corridor, most of which will be completed at night so trains can operate as normal for passengers. Work which cannot be completed at night and which will affect services to and from Bath is to be combined during a six-week period in summer 2015, from mid-July to the end of August, with work completed in two main phases during those six weeks. The first three-week phase will affect only the immediate Box Tunnel area (near Corsham), while the second three-week phase also closes the entire railway immediately east of Bath station and the direct route to Trowbridge. By maximising work over a six-week period it will be completed with the minimum possible level of disruption to passengers. Network Rail will also be using this period to complete other work that was due to be undertaken in the Bath area over the coming years, minimising disruption further still. Patrick Hallgate, Network Rail route managing director, said: ^The work that we will be undertaking at Bath is part of our wider electrification project, delivering not only a greener and quieter railway but a better service for passengers across the south west. ^We realise that this work will cause disruption to rail users, but we are working closely with all the relevant parties to minimise that disruption, and when the work is complete, it will pave the way for a massively improved rail service.^ The work is planned for the summer of 2015 to avoid other major improvements being carried out by Network Rail at Reading and Bristol, while also avoiding bat and newt breeding seasons. The major elements of the work are: Lowering the track in Box Tunnel and installing electrification equipment Canopy works at Bath Spa station Installing specially designed electrification equipment in Sydney Gardens, in recognition of its unique status as a World Heritage Site. Huge care will be taken to ensure that the electrified rail route protects the special status of the City of Bath and its listed buildings. Network Rail, First Great Western, Bath & North East Somerset Council and Bath Tourism Plus are working together to ensure that disruption to passengers and visitors to the city is minimised, keeping passengers on trains, wherever possible, rather than having to use coach services as the railway around Bath is modernised. A firm objective of all parties is to ensure that Bath remains open during these works next summer, albeit with a reduced level of service. Service provision measures currently under consideration include: Ensuring commuters and off peak passengers can travel by train by keeping the rail route west of Bath open throughout the improvement works, so that a reduced service from Bath Spa to London Paddington and Bath Spa to Bristol Temple Meads and Cardiff Central can operate. Keeping passengers on trains that normally travel through Bath Spa by diverting services where at all possible Implementing a high quality coach service between Bath Spa and Chippenham, Trowbridge and Westbury which would operate at the same frequency as rail services, connecting passengers with onward train services at those stations. Easing ticket restrictions to enable passengers to use alternative rail routes. Allowing car park season ticket holders to use car parks at alternative train stations. Final plans for the programme of work and alternative travel arrangements will be announced this autumn following consultation with businesses, tourism representatives, passengers and user groups over the coming months. Mark Hopwood for First Great Western said: "By working with businesses and the community in Bath we are developing a train service plan that supports the local economy while also allowing Network Rail the vital access it needs to the railway in order to electrify the route. Our goal is to ensure the route is modernised in the shortest time possible and with the minimum level of disruption to our passengers." Cllr Paul Crossley, leader of Bath & North East Somerset Council, said: ^These modernisation works offer a fantastic opportunity to improve rail services for visitors and commuters coming to Bath. ^We^re really pleased that Network Rail and First Great Western are working together to put meticulous plans in place to ensure that disruption is kept to a minimum during the short period of works. We^re also keen to make people aware that Bath will still be very much ^open for business^, and assist them in getting around easily so they can continue to enjoy the wide variety of shops, entertainment and visitor attractions which our beautiful World Heritage City has to offer.^ Nick Brooks-Sykes, chief executive for Bath Tourism Plus, said: ^A fast, efficient and frequent railway connection to London is key to future growth of the visitor economy in Bath. We therefore welcome the plans to electrify the lines and introduce new rolling stock. We recognise that there will inevitably be some short term disruption, so welcome the fact that Network Rail and First Great Western will be working with BTP to minimise this where possible and to support BTP in informing potential visitors of route and timetable alterations.^ Some further work will be needed in 2016 west of Bath that will require further changes to train services on some weekends, but this will not be on the scale of the summer 2015 alterations. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: grahame on September 28, 2014, 04:18:04 I've been through the sign up procedure ... here are the questions I was given the opportunity to answer once I had done so.
Quote Please use this survey to feedback your views on the proposed 6 week disruption period in summer 2015 and the associated electrification of the Great Western Mainline 1.Would you agree that the long term benefits will outweigh the short term and temporary disruption that local residents and rail users will face during its construction? Reduced carbon emissions being a key benefit strongly agree agree disagree strongly disagree Will it be worth it? 2.Please let us know your preferred method of receiving updates as they become available: Local drop in meetings Social media - facebook and twitter 3.If you would like to receive updates by email, please enter your email address below: 4.Would the improved capacity and performance of the new electric trains encourage you to make more use of the train service than you do currently? Yes, No change No Will you use trains more? 5.We would value your views on the Electrifcation programme and how it may affect you. We are constantly reviewing the programme and welcome your feedback [box for free format text input] Myenvolve is a locally based survey portal, and if you sign up you'll be offered other surveys too - including a connection into the TransWilts one we ran a few months ago to look at the effectiveness of our marketing and how well we were / weren't doing in terms of reaching people by particular means. That TransWilts survey helped form our summer plans! Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: Electric train on September 28, 2014, 08:53:44 It's not surprising this far out there is a lack of responses we (most of) the general travelling public don't think that strategic of how is this going to affect me in a years time.
An example of responses to consultation is Thameslink's closure of London Bridge to TLP and Southern services during August this year; the consultation and awareness campaign (posters, flyers, Twitter, website meet the manager etc) commenced in earnest a year before and then ramped up and became very intense in the final few weeks "Town Hall" meetings were held, but still on the day there were some regular users still complained they new nothing about the closures! they were however briefed about the big closure this Christmas for several moths. All NR and the TOCs can do is keep repeating the message by posters, adverts, meet the manager and on board and station announcements in the hope it will catch 90% plus of the travellers Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: grahame on September 28, 2014, 09:24:14 All NR and the TOCs can do is keep repeating the message by posters, adverts, meet the manager and on board and station announcements in the hope it will catch 90% plus of the travellers I *do* hear you about the travelling public not looking strategically ahead ... and I hope that in due course all of those ways of getting the message out are used to the full, and additionally community resources such as the three CRPs who's services / stations will be most effected, and perhaps rail user groups too, are consulted / asked for help. At this stage, the consultation strikes me as being largely between NR and the TOC, with some local [county level] council involvement; the online survey that's had such limited results doesn't ask the question "how can we do this to make it easier for you, the travelling public". It's almost as if the public's regarded as so uneducated in this matter that it's not worth even seeking suggestions, with the "consultation" really being a mechanism to collect a mailing list of interested parties. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: grahame on September 28, 2014, 09:25:36 Engineering works, Bath and Box, Summer 2015
In order to undertake works associated with the electrification of the railway through Chippenham and Bath, we understand that there are to be significant closures for engineering to take place in the summer of 2015. That's not new information - it's something we knew would be happening even before the trial service started last December, and we knew it would effect us even though our line's not being electrified and our trains will remain diesel powered at present. We do have more details now * For three weeks at the end of July and the start of August 2015, the line through Box tunnel will be closed. * For the following three weeks, the western access to Bath Spa will be closed in addition. The following diversions are planned. a) For the first three weeks, London to Bristol trains via Chippenham and Bath Spa will run once per hour, diverted between Thingley Junction and Batheaston Junction, reversing in the Trowbridge area. b) For the second three weeks, a London to Bristol and Bath service will run via Swindon and Bristol Parkway to reverse there to Bath Spa where it will terminate. The Portsmouth to Cardiff service will divert north of Trowbridge via Chippenham to Swindon. I understand that Network Rail have been "consulting widely with Stakeholders" and are said to be doing "everything they can to mitigate the effects of the engineering". I know they've been talking to the train operators, and to local authorities ... not sure about community groups, CRPs, etc ... I will ask Heart of Wessex and Severnside when we meet them later this week, as they'll be effected like the TransWilts. And there was no mention at the West Wilts Rail User Group meeting last week. The Myenvolve consultation (see separate post) doesn't appear to have attracted very many inputs [Why? - separate discussion!]. Is the time may now be ripe to approach Network Rail (and First Great Western) from a passenger viewpoint, making any constructive inputs / comments which might be useful? I am going to suggest ... a) That the London to Bristol via Chippenham and Bath Spa services for the first three week period also call at Melksham and Trowbridge stations on their diverted route, and thet the regular TransWits service is SUSPENDED in order to provide capacity. With the London to Bristol service making intermediate calls, there would be no need to either try to shoehorn in local trains or to provide substitute buses ... saving expense and making better provision. The trains have to slow right down to go round the corner in Melksham anyway, and come to a complete halt and reverse at Trowbridge, so the extra time taken will be limited. b) That the Portsmouth to Cardiff service diverted via Swindon call additionally at Melksham and Chippenham. The Chippenham call will provide for an hourly service, all be it with a change of trains, from Chippenham to London, and the calls at Melksham on these services will remove the need to run local TransWilts trains (happy for them to be SUSPENDED if the alternative is provided) and would save putting passengers off onto buses (which they hate). For the second three week period, I understand that rail replacement buses will be running from Chippenham to Bath Spa, and from West Wilts to Bath Spa (not sure of the pattern of that / starting point for the services can trains from the south be turned at Trowbridge, Bradford-on-Avon or Freshford??) Also for the second three week period, I raise the question (but I am not answering as I've not got the knowledge) whether the Portsmouth - Swindon service will carry on to Cardiff and / or Temple Meads via Parkway, or will turn around there and transfer passengers into HST services from London. And finally for that second three week period, I question whether the London to Bath Spa trains will call at Bristol Parkway, Filton Abbey Wood, Keynsham and Oldfiield Park. For all six week, should / will / can an extra service (shuttle?) be provided between Swindon and Chippenham each hour to maintain the 30 minute frequency that station usually supports? Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: SandTEngineer on September 28, 2014, 11:05:30 Just to advise that the signalled reversal happens on the Down Line (for Westbound trains) and the Up Line (for Eastbound trains) north of Trowbridge at
Edited: To correct place name. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: grahame on September 28, 2014, 11:08:56 Just to advise that the signalled reversal happens north of Trowbridge at Bathampton South Junction and cannot take place at the station itself as the signalling is not configured to do so. That's a shame ... looks like a change of trains at Bradford-on-Avon then, or buses, or TransWilts trains trying to fit in as well ??? Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: John R on September 28, 2014, 11:40:54 At least for the second three week period it seems like a no-brainer to call the Cardiff - Portsmouth trains at Chippenham and Melksham, assuming the short platform at Melksham isn't a problem.
Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: grahame on September 28, 2014, 12:04:01 ... assuming the short platform at Melksham isn't a problem. Shouldn't be ... some of the Cardiff / Portsmouth 158s call at Dilton Marsh which is even shorterer! ;) Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: SandTEngineer on September 28, 2014, 12:46:44 Appologies. In my original post above I should have said 'Bradford South Junction' and not 'Bathampton South Junction' which is closer to Bath :P ::)
Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: mfpa on October 31, 2014, 12:19:09 Engineering works, Bath and Box, Summer 2015 * For three weeks at the end of July and the start of August 2015, the line through Box tunnel will be closed. * For the following three weeks, the western access to Bath Spa will be closed in addition. The following diversions are planned. a) For the first three weeks, London to Bristol trains via Chippenham and Bath Spa will run once per hour, diverted between Thingley Junction and Batheaston Junction, reversing in the Trowbridge area. b) For the second three weeks, a London to Bristol and Bath service will run via Swindon and Bristol Parkway to reverse there to Bath Spa where it will terminate. The Portsmouth to Cardiff service will divert north of Trowbridge via Chippenham to Swindon. I'm confused. If the western approach to Bath Spa is closed for the second three weeks, how will the trains reverse from Parkway to Bath Spa? Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: grahame on October 31, 2014, 12:24:17 I'm confused. If the western approach to Bath Spa is closed for the second three weeks, how will the trains reverse from Parkway to Bath Spa? My error - EASTERN approach not western. Sorry. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: mfpa on October 31, 2014, 12:33:13 Fair enough.
Is it fair to say that for these six weeks the service level between Bath and Filton will be broadly similar to what it normally is? And, presumably, the line between Bath and Bristol will be closed for a few weeks at some point and replaced by a bus service. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: grahame on October 31, 2014, 16:58:51 Is it fair to say that for these six weeks the service level between Bath and Filton will be broadly similar to what it normally is? Network Rail's leaflet says "2 trains per hour [from Bath] to London or Cardiff / Gloucester via Bristol Temple Meads" for 1st to 31st August 2015. I take that as being 1 HST and 1 train which divides at Temple Meads, with portions going forward to Cardiff and via Gloucester. I may be reading too much into it though. Not sure what the capacity is for turning trains back at Bath, nor the anticipated passenger number bearing in mind they'll have no through rail passengers from the east. Quote And, presumably, the line between Bath and Bristol will be closed for a few weeks at some point and replaced by a bus service. Not totally sure on that - the issue with Box Tunnel, Sydney Gardens etc is that the track needs to be lowered, as I understand it. That may not be the case anywhere from Bath to Bristol Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: Timmer on October 31, 2014, 17:28:13 I expect that most of the wiring work between Bath and Bristol will take place overnight which is the plan for most of the wiring work across the network. Maybe some work at weekends when it comes to wiring the tunnels between Bath and Bristol.
Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: ChrisB on November 01, 2014, 18:53:34 This is for the tunnels I believe
Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: Tim on November 11, 2014, 13:12:09 I tend to agree with Graham on his comments on stopping diverted services at Melksham.
It seems a shame to undermine a growing level of patronage there. I also think it is a shame that the opportunity isn't being taken to put back the third side of the Thingley triangle to allow a Chippenham- Bath train to run via Melksham without a reversal. For such a short bit of track you would mitigate the delays during the closure of the tunnel, provide an on going diversionary route when the tunnel is closed in future and (perhaps in compensation for suspension of Melksham stoppers during the summer works) Give more options for transwiltshire / Bristol metro services. For example coupled with reopening a platform at Chippenham you could run a Bristol Metro route Temple Mead-Keynsham-Oldfield Park-Bath Spa- Corsham-Melksham-Chippenham thereby drawing Wiltshire into the Bristol hinterland. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: Red Squirrel on November 11, 2014, 13:52:13 I tend to agree with Graham on his comments on stopping diverted services at Melksham. It seems a shame to undermine a growing level of patronage there. I also think it is a shame that the opportunity isn't being taken to put back the third side of the Thingley triangle to allow a Chippenham- Bath train to run via Melksham without a reversal. For such a short bit of track you would mitigate the delays during the closure of the tunnel, provide an on going diversionary route when the tunnel is closed in future and (perhaps in compensation for suspension of Melksham stoppers during the summer works) Give more options for transwiltshire / Bristol metro services. For example coupled with reopening a platform at Chippenham you could run a Bristol Metro route Temple Mead-Keynsham-Oldfield Park-Bath Spa- Corsham-Melksham-Chippenham thereby drawing Wiltshire into the Bristol hinterland. After a bit of staring at maps and head-scratching, I conclude that you must mean the missing chord at Staverton. Actually I wonder what purpose the chord at Thingley served - though given that it was opened during the war and closed before 1960, I presume it had something to do with munitions and the various facilities buried round Box. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: grahame on November 11, 2014, 14:29:58 After a bit of staring at maps and head-scratching, I conclude that you must mean the missing chord at Staverton. Actually I wonder what purpose the chord at Thingley served - though given that it was opened during the war and closed before 1960, I presume it had something to do with munitions and the various facilities buried round Box. There was a major freight depot / yard at Lacock, just to the south of Thingley, and freight from there feeding into the MOD areas around Box tunnel. The chord also allowed freight from that yard to have a good route in from and out to the Bristol area. Restoring the chord at Bradford Junction was in the Network Rail electrification proposals at one stage, just as the extra platform line at Westbury was in the Reading program. Both would have been potentially beneficial spinoffs of their programs, and undoubtedly would have / will help as works happen. However, both were "nice to do" options and were naturally removable as the projects were pared down. The cynic may wonder if they were initially included, indeed, to allow negotiating space. Looking ahead to either curve being re-instated in the future, I have to admit to being of two minds. I can see use for both / either of them, but I can also see a danger in that if local passenger services on the TransWilts were split to go two ways at one end of the line or the other, we could end up with two services both with a frequency below the minimum needed to attract general growth. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: Tim on November 11, 2014, 16:29:25 I did mean the cord at Staverton / Bradford junction not Thingley. My mistake sorry.
Having now looked at a map, I see that Thingley junction is east of Corsham so that a Corsham stop couldn't be included on a Chippenham-Bath route via Melksham. I take Graham's point too. Re-instatement of Staverton cord could lead to more services stopping at Melksham but it isn't really a "Transwiltshire" project. Depends where Melksham wants to be directly connected to - Bath and Bristol or Bradford, Trowbridge etc. I imagine it gets political at this point. Complicated too. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: eightf48544 on December 31, 2014, 21:20:59 I am beggining to think that small schemes like reinstating Bradfrod North curve and electrfying Bath to Thingley Junction via Melksahm and Bedwyn via Westbury would provide a far more resiliant and and useful railway rather than HS2.
Other schemes that spring to mind are Okehampton Bere Alston how long is Dawlish going to last? Connecting Birmingham Moor Steet to the Camp Hill line to give Birmingham another Suburban link. East West which does appear to be going ahead. Uckfield Lewes to relieve the Brighton main line. In my neck of the woods reinstate Bourne End High Wycombe, just think of the connectivity with the Bicester link West Bound on East West and via Clayton junction to Milton Keynes and Bedford maybe Cambridge. This links the principle towns of North and South Bucks/Berks/Oxfordshire Milton Keynes Aylesbury Bicester Oxford High Wycombe Maidenhead and Slough. Woodhead maybe as part 1 of HS3 but needs to serve Sheffield Midland. Build all new stations on two track mainlines a 4 tracks with platform loops. Schemes like this would seem to me to add far more useful services than HS2 and serve a greater population than HS2 which bascially only serves about 6 destinations. As to whether reinstating the Bradford curve is a Transwilts project I would have thought an hourly service from (Weston) Bristol to Swindon(London?) via Melksham together with a Swindon Salisbury Southampton would be very much a Tranwilts project. Title: Re: Consultation inputs sought - electrification disruption around Bath, 2015 Post by: ellendune on December 31, 2014, 21:33:36 I am beggining to think that small schemes like reinstating Bradfrod North curve and electrfying Bath to Thingley Junction via Melksahm and Bedwyn via Westbury would provide a far more resiliant and and useful railway rather than HS2. The services you suggest seem really good, but none of them will add capacity to the West Coast Mainline, the Midland Main line or the East Coast Mainline - which is what HS2 is all about. Other schemes that spring to mind are Okehampton Bere Alston how long is Dawlish going to last? Connecting Birmingham Moor Steet to the Camp Hill line to give Birmingham another Suburban link. East West which does appear to be going ahead. Uckfield Lewes to relieve the Brighton main line. In my neck of the woods reinstate Bourne End High Wycombe, just think of the connectivity with the Bicester link West Bound on East West and via Clayton junction to Milton Keynes and Bedford maybe Cambridge. This links the principle towns of North and South Bucks/Berks/Oxfordshire Milton Keynes Aylesbury Bicester Oxford High Wycombe Maidenhead and Slough. Woodhead maybe as part 1 of HS3 but needs to serve Sheffield Midland. Build all new stations on two track mainlines a 4 tracks with platform loops. Schemes like this would seem to me to add far more useful services than HS2 and serve a greater population than HS2 which bascially only serves about 6 destinations. As to whether reinstating the Bradford curve is a Transwilts project I would have thought an hourly service from (Weston) Bristol to Swindon(London?) via Melksham together with a Swindon Salisbury Southampton would be very much a Tranwilts project. Similar improvements on these routes would still not address the basic problem - they are full! And those 6 destinations - they seem to have a population far in excess of the whole of the South West of England! And they are already connected to other places as well. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |