Great Western Coffee Shop

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29098340

Hmm do we have an election coming up? Ah yes so we do.

Link fare & pay rises to performance,reliability and customer satisfaction and you'll soon see huge efforts by all concerned to improve all three.

No problem for MPs to absorb the fares rises. There pay is set to increase by 9% next year.  ::)

Yes we've already had this discussion on another thread :-p

This was supposed to be a positive thread considering the Government were criticised recently for a.) RPI+1% increase and b.) allowing the flex.

It's good news this has been capped and the flex scrapped regardless of election or politics, could you perhaps bang your worn-out drum on one of the many other threads.

In the Comprehensive Spending Review in October 2010 the Chancellor said that in Januarys 2012/13/14 regulated fares would rise by RPI+3% each year.

Then in the November 2011 Autumn Statement the Chancellor reversed that decision and the rise went back to RPI+1% for 2012. No general election approaching.

Then in October 2012, the Prime Minister announced that the rise for 2013 and 2014 would also remain at RP1+1%. No general election approaching.

Now in September 2012 we have RP1+0% and see the 2% flex removed. General election approaching.

The correlation between fares rises and a general election approaching is flawed. They're either done for financial reasons, to head off opposition criticism, or because there are elections every year. Somewhere there will local elections in May, every May.

Play nicely please ladies  ;D

.......if we're going to start censuring people for making the same suggestions (once in this case!) in different contexts then perhaps we should start with deleting all the ".....aren't customers horrible/ungrateful/abusive/ignorant/stupid" rants, should free up a good few gigabytes!

Seriously though, I may not agree with other people's opinions or points, but I'd never start making comments like that - I respect other people's views and enjoy reading the diverse opinions on here.

...........off to bang my drum now, hopefully the neighbours won't mind the noise...

Not sure where "Gigabytes" come from ... all messages total just 145 Megabytes.  ;D

As Admin ... There is a natural tendency for a thread starter to feel a degree of ownership over it, and occasionally a frustration when it heads off in a different direction to what the OP (Original Poster) intended.  Where that's clearly way off topic, the thread may end up being split; where it's off opinion, then the point of the forum is the discussion.    But is is really good to see the original poster coming back to help guide the thread along, and be involved in what (s)he started.  Thank you, Super Guard; good topic too

My own thoughts on Regulated Fare increases ... The fares system's a bit of a mess - witness some of the other threads around at the moment comparing cost per mile, season ticket ratios, and terms and conditions to Peterborough and Cambridge - similar journeys from Berkshire / Wiltshire, yet perversely different on times allowed.

By removing the flex (and 1%) from regulated fares, a government wins "brownie points" for reducing the headline largest increase possible - from 5.5% (2.5% RPI + 1% over + 2% Flex) to 2.5%.  But they have also removed any opportunity for the sorting out of issues within this basket - they have to adhere to a strict formula and indeed are more ministry managed (perhaps) than before privatisation.  Having said which, I suspect that flex in the past has been used to pump up fares where they will stand it, or on services that are growing fast, rather than in the social interests of fairness to travellers.

But then regulated fares are only a small part of the fare basket, I think, and other changes can make a much more radical difference.  For sure, you won't see an unregulated fare going up by a huge amount, but look at some of the other changes around.   I'm noting a few grumbles about there being fewer good prices advance (and advance first) tickets available than there used to be - that won't show up in any of the standard percentage increase stats, I don't suppose, but it's still a higher overall price being paid by users of these tickets up to the next step.

Another example came up on Friday evening, when the Melksham Railway Development Group met and discussed Santa.   If we were able to follow the same formula as last year, each adult would cost us ^3.35 for the train ticket, and each child ^1.   This year, the cost for each adult will rise to ^4.45 and each child to ^3.35 - that's a 33% rise in the adult fare, and a staggering 235% rise in the child fare [Groupsave changes].   And since the train fare represents a significant part of our costs ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/maybesanta.jpg)

Now - we are looking at various options, which must include putting up the price, cutting out other parts of the package, seeing if there are other fare alternative, subsidising the trip from our marketing budget ...  so at the moment it's  ? not X

Finally - (and on that positive note!) we DO appreciate the fare changes implemented by First on the TransWilts which have enabled Trowbridge / Westbury / Frome / Dilton Marsh passengers to travel to Chippenham / Swindon via Melksham at a direct lower fare than in 2013 - a significant improvement for those people.   Alas, like all good news stories that one has now gotten itself a bit lost in amongst the twice-a-year furrour about the rise in fares - announced August, implemented January.

I apologise if I caused any offence, however rail staff could have 0% or 10% rise and the government will still do what they want with the fares policy.  You have made your point on more than one occasion elsewhere, and I actually agree with it.  I just don't think it's relevant in this discussion.  I appreciate that's probably up to the mods though.

However, I thought this would be welcomed given the much criticism I have read about "flex" and the over-inflation rises, and not turn into another discussion about staff salaries and benefits.

You are correct re: ownership as OP.. Also worth adding that many rail staff do care about how the public perceive the industry and accept while there's many failings, many are trying to keep you all moving on-time as much as possible.  Niggles about salaries, benefits and whether any of us care about the product and quality of service we provide does get tiresome and that's where my frustration came out.  Apologies again.

No-one wants to pay higher prices for any service or product, but there isn't anyone who expects a 0% freeze on fares currently, so a RPI freeze and flex ban is about as good as it gets.

As grahame has already indicated, the moderators / administrators of the Coffee Shop forum are delighted to see such a lively and topical debate being conducted in such a polite manner: thank you all for your contributions.  :)

My recent post in another place highlighted some glaring anomalies in the fares system http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14530.msg160834#msg160834 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14530.msg160834#msg160834)

(earlier I wrote)

Exactly one of the threads I was thinking of as I wrote examples earlier on ... but then my post was already getting long to the extent of diluting some of the points.

I recall that although BR certainly had "form" for price increases, they were sufficiently commercially astute to modify fares according to prevailing market conditions, and that sometimes recessions led to reductions in fares. Saver fares were introduced in this way, and at least one manager cut fares in South Wales to reflect the economic realities.

No offence taken old chap, I'm sure we all have bigger fish to fry.

The point I (perhaps rather clumsily) was trying to make was that people wouldn't object so much to fare increases if they could see (tangibly) that performance was improving and the service was more reliable, and that also linking reward to performance (both on the rails and in terms of customer service) may help focus minds more on it......but anyway Amen from me!  ;)

Last year I could buy (and did) single advance tickets from Oxford to Paddington for ^5.00 each way for most trains on a Saturday. Looking on the web now for up to the end of November, i.e. plenty of time to get the cheapest tickets, the cheapest fare I can see is ^8.90 each way, i.e. an increase of 78%.