Great Western Coffee Shop

Three out of four of the following groups have something in common, and one's an odd one out.  Which is the odd one out in each case, and why?  I'm fully expecting multiple different (and correct) answers ... which may not be the ones I had thought of!   I'm also prepared for special cases I hadn't noticed which render my questions not quite 100% - however, let's try.

Bit of an experiment ... please just try one each to start with even if they are blindingly obvious ...

1. - Marlow - You can catch a train going more than just one stop
Windsor and Eton Central
Marlow
Stourbridge Town
Cardiff Bay
Marlow - 2 trains on branch allowed not just one - eightf48544
Stourbridge Town - not worked by a conventional emu - eightf48544
Cardiff Bay - only one in Wales - Electric Train


2.
King's Cross
Cardiff Central
Marylebone
Haymarket
Haymarket - Only one without "Great" in name of regrouping operator - eightf48544

3. Haltwhistle - At others you can connect to a narrow gauge heritage line - ellendune
Haltwhistle
Blaeneau Ffestiniog
Aberystwyth
Ravenglass

4.
Andover
Liskeard
Alton
Brownhills West
Brownhill - disconnected from National Network - Eightf48544

5. Fishguard and Goodwick - only one managed by a train operator who serves it.
Mottisfont and Dunbridge
Fishguard Harbour
Fishguard and Goodwick
Bristol Temple Meads
Or ... BRI, only one operated and owned by the same organisation, or FGH, only one never renamed,etc ....

6. Nant Gwernol - others are upper termini of funiculars - Stuving
Constitution Hill
Nant Gwernol
Lynton
Ptarmigan

7. Yeovil - only one with multiple stations not in a ticketing group
Dorking
Dorchester
Tyndrum
Yeovil
Dorking - two lines at the town have no connection - Stuving
Dorking - Able to buy a ticket between stations - Brooklea

8.
Hull Paragon
Glasgow Queen Street High Level
Inverness
Perth
Glasgow Queen Street - no direct service to King's Cross - readytostart
Perth - through station (others only have terminal platforms) - Stuving

9. Shippea Hill - only one with services on more than one day a week
Brigg
Pilning
Shippea Hill
Denton
Denton - Island platform - Eightf48544

10.
Dunrobin
Duncraig
Falls of Cruachan
Sugar Loaf
Sugar Loaf - in Wales / others in Scotland - bignosemac
Falls of Cruachan - others are request stops - bignosemac

11.
Corrour
Kintbury
Ridgmont
Flint

12. Heathrow Airport Central - Can't buy tickets to all other 2,500+ Rail network stations
Heathrow Airport Central
Gatwick Airport
Southampton Airport
Prestwick Airport
Prestick - only one is Scotland - Electric Train
Heathrow - only one subterranean (and other reasons too!) - Electric Train
Heathrow - only one from which you can make a free journey - eightf48544

Do you mean as in:

7.
Dorking
Dorchester
Tyndrum
Yeovil

All have two stations on different lines, but only at Dorking are they not connected nearby.

Yes - that is a classic answer which is a correct one, but not the one I had intended.

12
Prestwick Airport is odd to the others because it is in Scotland the others are in England
Hearthrow Airport Central is odd to the others because it is Subterranean

Two excellent answers ... and there's another that was the one I had originally thought of!

Heathrow Airport Central is also on the Tube Map the others are not
Heathrow Airport Central is also TfL Zone 6 the others are not
Heathrow Airport Central is not owned by Network Rail the others are (Heathrow Airport Central is owned by BAA)

Yes, and indeed it's an effect on passengers of the last of those that I had in mind .. the unique (?) inability to buy a ticket to any other UK station at the time of travel when you start your rail journey from there.

It looks very much like I've started a thread that's going to turn into a series of discussions.  Excellent  ;D

I'll try number 1.

Marlow is a single line branch off a single line branch plus you can have 2 trains one the line. Whereas the other three are just single lines from Junction to Terminus with one train operation.

Although isn't Stourbridge Town the shortest branch on Newtwork Rail also it's worked by Parry People movers not conventional DMUs.

Marlow was indeed the 'odd' one and you're on the track (or tracks) had in mind.  My thought was that it's odd because you can go more than one stop on a train from there without changing ...

10.

Sugar Loaf is in Wales, the other three are in Scotland. Or,

At Falls of Cruachan timetabled services always stop. At the other three they stop on request only.

Graham duirng the day you are right you don't have to change at Bourne End the 2 car reverses in the Malow platform after the train crew have worked the "points" by placing the Marlow staff in the aparatus and obtaining a token for the Maidenhead line by a release from Slough (Old panel).

When there are two trains on the branch the Marlow Donkey (which must only be a 2 car to clear the points) is locked onto the branch by the release of a token (by Slough) from Maidenhead. A train can then run from Maidenhead to Bourne End where it terminates in the other platform. These can be 5 cars some of which are through trains to and from Padd.




 

8.
Hull Paragon
Glasgow Queen Street High Level
Inverness
Perth

Glasgow Queen Street is the only one without a direct service to London Kings Cross - though it used to have one.

1.

Cardiff Bay is the odd one out because its in Wales the rest are in England

Heathrow Central is also odd because you can make a free journey on the T4 shuttle!

Tongue firmly in cheek.

No 2 Haymarket all the rest belonged to pre grouping companies starting with Great! 

Tongue position noticed.  I'm going to contend that in any list of four stations, every single one could be "odd one out" for some reason!   All the following are correct selections ... yet none are what I had thought as I made up the questions!




Goodness yes ... so it is!

There are both standard gauge and and historic narrow gauge railways at Blaeneau Ffestiniog (Ffestiniog Railway), Aberystwyth (Vale of Rheidol Railway) and Ravenglass (Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway).

Although part of the former standard gauge branch line from Alston to Haltwhistle has been reopened as a narrow gauge line it has not so far reached Hatlwhistle.

Therefore Haltwhistle is the odd one out.

Well reasoned, and correct to what I had in mind.

Lots of good answers which I have attempted to cut in to the original questions.    I'm not sure about Duncraig / Dunrobin / Sugar Loaf / Falls of Cruachan - thought they were all request stops, but looks like that has changed for Falls of Cruachan - for this year?

5.

Bristol Temple Meads is the only one of the four owned and managed by the same entity.

The "Marlow Branch" is technically a single line with branch each with their own ELR (Engineers Line Reference)  Maidenhead - Bourne End is WBB and Bourne End - Marlow MWB.  

Two trains cannot be allowed on one of the lines at any one time; WBB is protected by "Token Block" (Tyer's No 9 key token) and MWB is protected by "Electric Train Staff"

8. Did you have in mind that Hull Paragon, Glasgow Queen Street High Level,  and Inverness are termini but Perth is a through station? That's so, though confused somewhat by the railways' insistence that, notwithstanding what it says on the building itself, Hull Paragon Interchange (HUU) is a bus stop next to Hull station (HUL).

Oh gosh - actually I didn't have that in mind.  And "throughness" is arguable at Inverness as there are a few trains for which it's an intermediate stop , with the train reversing into a platform, all of which could be considered to be bays!

Topologically, it's clear enough whether you can drive a train out of either end of a platform and go somewhere, and "through" I think captures that. "Terminus" may not be its exact opposite, as it suggests something about services, not just track. But is there another word?

By the way, I've just realised that you started this thread less than 24 hours ago, so you may feel my suggestion (though not the first for that question) maybe premature; in which case I apologise.

Goodness only knows ...  ;) ... discussion stations and how to categorise might include Bere Alston, Ormskirk and Porthmadog Harbour


The intent / spirit of that rule (in these quizzes) is simply to avoid a large numbers of answers being given by just one or two people before anyone else gets a chance, and I'm more than happy that the spirit's been followed - especially in an experimental type of quiz like this one that's throwing up so many curved balls!

9. All four have a token 'parliamentary' service, but Denton is the only one without a train calling on Saturdays.
Denton is also the only one which only has a service in one direction.

5.   All have been renamed by adding to the original wording, except for Fishguard Harbour.

Or something like that...

Paul

6.  Constitution Hill, Lynton, and (the) Ptarmigan are all top stations of funiculars. Nant Gwernol is the upper-end terminus of a "plain" narrow-gauge hill railway. Now, if you tell me that's not what you intended ...

Phew!   That is exactly what I intended  ;D

A good pair of reasons why Denton is the odd one out.   My original thought was that Shippea Hill (I have been there and it looked pretty flat to me!) is the odd one out due to pattern of service, but I do agree that Denton is pretty odd!


Oh wow - you're somewhat beyond my ken with that, but I don't doubt that you're right.   There was a post earlier that the operator and owner are the same only at BRI ... also true, and it's along those lines that my original odd one out thoughts lay.

Ah right, then Fishguard Harbour is the one that isn't owned OR operated by Network Rail, but belongs to Stena Line.  Often held up as the contrary example to the rest of England and Wales whereby smoking is allowed on the platforms, isn't it?

PAul

For question 5, I would suggest Fishguard & Goodwick. Because (to my rather limited knowledge) it is the only one to have had a building demolished and then replaced in an attempt to maintain the character of the station, due to it being in a conservation area. Sadly, they made a right hash of the design of the replacement building and hence utterly failed to preserve the character. The locals have done a better job of adding character using flags and flowers than the new building, which doesn't do the original justice at all. Had they got the building right, heritage-style signage etc. (Birmingham Moor Street and perhaps Kings Lynn, although I've not seen much of that and haven't been there) might have made it a really special station. Wasted opertunity there. Don't think I've ever heard of Mottisfont and Dunbridge before now, but a quick Google shows it still seems to have an original-looking station building.

Not sure about that, Fishguard Harbour is both owned and managed by Stena Line isn't it, unless the Fishguard and Rosslare railways and harbours company is actually still a seperate entity from Stena Line. The platform signage certainly doesn't seem to be either Network Rail or Arriva designs.

I forget whether Fishguard & Goodwick was actually called that originally (I don't have a copy of the railways of Pembrokeshire book, so can't check). Was it actually officially titled that to begin with?

I've read different stories about why smoking is allowed at Fishguard Harbour. It might just be because it belongs to Stena but it might also be health-and-safety related, because when it was banned on the platform the smokers went too close to the level crossing.

I know Wikipedia isn't to be trusted but it says that Fishguard Harbour is owned by Stena and managed by ATW. National Rail Enquiries also says FGH is managed by ATW.

Fishguard and Goodwick is owned by Pembrokeshire County Council and managed by ATW.

Mottisfont & Dunbridge is owned by Network Rail and managed by First Great Western (although I believe that SWT now cover the station management on behalf of FGW).

Bristol Temple Meads is owned and managed by Network Rail.

That's how I came to my answer that Bristol TM was the odd one out, being owned and managed by the same entity.

My intent was that the answer's Fishguard and Goodwick, being the only one of those stations that's managed by a company who run passenger trains serving it.   The majority of UK stations are managed by companies running their trains, but there are exceptions ...
* Fishguard Harbour - Stena (served by Arriva Trains Wales)
* Bristol Temple Meads - Network Rail
* Mottisfont and Dunbridge - First Great Western (but served by South West Trains)
... but I do see questions over some of those; my latest understanding was that the transfer of Dean and Mottisfont to SWT management hadn't actually happened, and I wasn't aware that Arriva Trains Wales might manage Fishguard Harbour.  Such is the complexity of some of these oddballs.

Thank goodness I started this in "the lighter side" ...

7. Dorking is the odd one because it is possible to buy a ticket to travel between two (of the three) stations there - Dorking West and Dorking (Deepdene)

9 Denton is the odd one because its an Island Platform. The others have two platforms.

But then again Pilning has three running lines!

And then again Shippea Hill is the odd one out because it has services on more than one day per week.


So it is  ;D

And you could also say the Yeovil is the odd one out because all of the others are or have been grouped by the ORR for passenger count purposes to the extent that annual figures have been badly distorted, whereas Yeovil has always been properly two locations.

Try 4 Brownhills West it's disconnected from the National Network on the Chasewater Railway.

I'm going to give you that one as it's better than the answer that I had in mind (Liskeard)

Graham by your definition of through trains through a terminal station Hull Paragon qualifies as there are through Bridlington to Shefield trains. Which reverse at Hull. To my mind both Inverness and Hull are terminal stations. If you keep going in same direction as you arrive you are going to make an aweful mess of the concourse and the train!

Consider the case of the 17:14 Kyle of Lochalsh to Elgin (not, I admit, a train that any of us here uses often).  The driving can that is at the front when it leaves Kyle of Lochalsh is at the front when it leaves every single intermediate station, including Inverness, therefore there has been no net reversal anywhere alone the way and it hasn't been into a terminal  ;D

There used to be a similar arrangement at Dorchester South ...

How does that work? Does it not actually call at Inverness, and just have a PASS time in the working timetable? Or is there a platform on the through side of the triangle?

It runs through on the avoiding line and then reverses back into the main platforms.  I did it a few years ago.

Runs on the avoiding line as a parliamentary service to keep that stretch of line open and then reverses into Inverness station.

Ah, thanks both. Is that a national odd one out, as a National Rail passenger service which reverses at somewhere other than a station?

Nope - most Liskeard - Looe services reverse at Coombe Junction without going all the way to the station.  It's unusual though.  Oh - and there's a Reading - Oxford Crosscountry service that reverses at Foxhall Junction.  Not sure about the 03:58 Swansea - Paddington either - perhaps that reverses at "Ogmore Junction" ... not sure of the exact geography though!

Interesting though the 17:14 Kyle Elgin is I still think Inverness is a terminal station as you have to stop at the buffers on every platform!

Might be booked to do so - but never has when I've caught it - just passes through Didcot platform 3 (slowly) on it's way round the curve to Oxford where it invariably arrives early.

Here's the booking for today

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C72843/2014/08/13/advanced

1M79 Reading to Birmingham New Street
21:46 ex Reading
22:05 to 22:13 at Foxhall Junction
22:27 at Oxford

Yesterday's shows it as on time arriving at Foxhall, leaving 3 minutes early, 4 early into Oxford
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C72843/2014/08/12/advanced

1M78 - previous train on same route - takes 24 minutes direct from Reading to Oxford:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C72836/2014/08/13/advanced
So extra jaunt adds 17 minutes to the schedule.

Just sits on the curve & doesn't reverse.

Eh? How can it get to the West Curve (between Foxhall Jcn and Didcot West Curve Jcn) to be able to sit there?

Needs to have reversed at Foxhall Jcn.

Realtime Trains shows it has used the West Curve under the 'Line' heading. DWC (Down West Curve) between Foxhall Jcn and Didcot West Curve Jcn. Followed by DCL (Down Chester Line) between Didcot West Curve Jcn and Didcot North Junction, then DO (Down Oxford) from Didcot North Jcn. (1st attachment)

As the timing points have been activated, the service must have gone via a reversal at Foxhall Jcn and on to the West Curve.

Take a look at this example of the same service on the 5th August:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C72843/2014/08/05/advanced (2nd attachment)

Service left Reading 15 minutes late and ran via the Didcot Avoiding Line. Therefore it didn't reverse at Foxhall Jcn. This can be deduced as it did not activate the timing points at Didcot Parkway, Foxhall Jcn and Didcot West Curve Jcn. Each has 'No report' in the timing column.

This one on Monday didn't reverse but did go through Didcot Parkway station and onto the Down Chester Line:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C72843/2014/08/11/advanced (3rd attachment)

I presumme it's booked that way to keep Crosscountry drivers route knowledge up to date so that in the advent of problems on the  Didcot avoiding lines and/or Didcot West Jn to the station, they can be routed that way.

I think it's a parliamentary service to be able to say that the west chord remains open for (and served by) passenger trains.

I'm on that train at least once a week (different days) and I've only gone the booked way twice since January. Very rare as you say - 1 in 3 in your examples.

Four out of five days last week. Only on the 5th August (Tues) did it not take the curve.

Previous week the same. On Tues 29th July it didn't reverse.

The week before that it ran via Foxhall Jcn on three of the five days.

And four weeks ago (14th-18th July) it ran as booked on all five week days.

I've looked at the last full six weeks running of 1M79 on Realtime Trains. According to RTT, out of the 30 week days, it ran via it's booked route and reversed at Foxhall Jcn on 25 occasions. 83% as booked.

So, not very rare recently. My example extracts were picked specifically to show the alternative routes, not to hightlight any perceived infrequency in the 2146 running via its booked route.

There appears to be a statistically significant correlation between the presence of ChrisB on the train and it running via a more direct route than the one booked.    How odd ... ChrisB - is this, perhaps, a train which you only catch when there are significant delays, thus biasing your sample?

Only if i've struck unlucky! It's completely random the days I catch it...

It's nearly always done the Foxhall reversal whenever I've seen it or been on it, so I would go along with BNM's percentage.  I'm guessing the only time it doesn't is when the driver/TM's route knowledge has actually lapsed.

Its arrived at Oxford at 2223....just sitting waiting right time. 7 mins early into Oxford, I find it hard to believe that its done it tonight either

You could have answered your own question ChrisB, with a quick look at Realtime Trains. No mind, I've done so for you.   ;)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C72843/2014/08/14/advanced

Yes, 4^ minutes early into Oxford (against scheduled arrival time), but it still made its booked reversal at Foxhall Jcn.

On an iphone? You try.....:-)

Realtime trains (website, not app) works pretty well on an iPhone as the screen reformats for the device screen size nicely using 'responsive design' scripts I presume?  Unlike some websites I could mention...  :D

We seem to have got diverted off this quiz at Foxhall Junction  ;D

I have gone back and written in as many of the correct answers (whether they are the ones I had come up with or others) as I can filter out - but it's a real mashup.  And for completeness,  here are at the ones where the answer I was originally thinking of didn't come out:

2.
King's Cross
Cardiff Central
Marylebone
Haymarket
Marylebone - only one without a platform 0

4.
Andover
Liskeard
Alton
Brownhills West
Liskeard - only one that hasn't been talked about or tried for a Parry People Mover

8.
Hull Paragon
Glasgow Queen Street High Level
Inverness
Perth
Hull Paragon - only one that doesn't have seven platforms

10.
Dunrobin
Duncraig
Falls of Cruachan
Sugar Loaf
Sugar Loaf - only one that doesn't / hasn't had a "private" label on it

11.
Corrour
Kintbury
Ridgmont
Flint
Ridgmont - only one without a through service to London

Some of those may be subject to discussion / interpretation / addition of facts that muddy the waters - please do feel free to jump in with "yes, but" or "I have a better alternative".

Parry People Mover was talked about for Liskeard-Looe by Mr Community Rail himself in 2004 - http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/ppm36-feature.htm

Which all goes to show the difficulty of setting quiz questions!  :D

On a technical note, the reason that I didn't do too detailed a check on Liskeard / Looe for this question was (a) the steep gradient, (b) the seasonality of the line / could a PPM cope in summer? and (c) relative length of line.   However, I do note that the Edwardian Railcar was used on the line and indeed it *is* a logical candidate for isolated lightweight operation.