Great Western Coffee Shop

Scenario - I know an old bloke with a younger wife.    He's got his senior rail card and wants to go off for a fortnight to all sorts of exotic places on an all line rover ticket.    The wife wants to come along too, but not every day (Tenby - fantastic. Up early to do Stockport to Stalybridge - NO THANK YOU).

Questions
1. Can the old boy's rover be registered with both a senior and two together railcard, so that he can travel alone or with his partner?
2. Two together is "not before 09:30" and all line rover is "anything except 10 am alight/join at [stations].  Which takes precedence on an all line rover?

His partner would need another rover, at the two-together discount (if its applicable?) It's non-transferable.

The conditions on the rover beat the card's conditions, I believe

Thank you - wasn't clear from the sites I was reading


Yes, two rovers are needed, and it's 34% off for the senior.  And I think you're saying 34% off for his younger wife too, provided that she only travels with him, and even though his ticket is marked with the senior rover so that he can travel to Denton alone!

I can't see how this is possible.

Tickets are only valid with the correct railcard. They would either have to travel together at all times to comply with the Two Together conditions, or the husband buys a discounted ALR with his Senior railcard and the wife buys a full price one. The husband cannot be issued with an ALR that has both discounts on it.

If the husband travels alone on a Two Together discounted ticket he is not complying with the conditions of issue and would be open to refusal of travel, Penalty Fares, or prosecution.

If they do decide to travel together at all times with two 'Two Together' discounted ALRs then the railcard condition takes precedence and travel cannot begin anywhere each weekday before 0930, or at 1000 at the specified stations.

Are you sure? The Rover says you can't travel before 10. Surely usage of a railcard that allows travel earlier than the rover conditions won't be allowed?

That's what I said.

An ALR discounted with Two Together is not valid anywhere before 0930 weekdays, except the stations listed*, where, as is common for all ALRs - discounted or not, it is not valid before 1000 weekdays.

*
Birmingham New Street
Bedford
London Euston
London Kings Cross
London St Pancras International
Luton
Luton Airport Parkway
Milton Keynes Central
Stevenage
Watford Junction

National Rail Enquiries says:

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but the 1000 restrictions on ALR don't really apply to those listed stations, but rather to boarding or alighting SOME TOC's trains, but not all. E.g. New Street where 1000 restriction only applies to Virgin and XC, but not London Midland or Arriva Wales (I don't think any other TOCs serve New Street). I am sure most users of Coffee Shop know this anyway! Yours in peace!

No that's an excellent reminder.  And at Birmingham, taking your example further ...
a) it IS valid on - say - a Cheltenham Spa to Wolverhampton journey that calls before 10 a.m. (just don't walk up the platform to stretch your legs!
b) You can board a Birmingham to Penzance train at New Street covered by a single to Five Ways and a season ticket / rover that will take you beyond Five Ways - quite a low cost add on to buy the extra option rather than having to go out via Worcseter to Cheltenham if you want to start early.

Does the "not before 10 a.m." really mean "from 4 a.m. to 10 a.m" ... or is it from midnight?

Can you really do that if the train doesn't stop at Five Ways?

If one of the tickets is a Season or Rover valid for 7 consecutive days or more, or at least 3 days in a period of at least 7 days, and the other(s) is/are not, then there is no need for the train to call at the split point.

Gosh. What an interesting factoid!

National Rail Conditios of Carriage, part 19. Which deals with the use of multiple tickets for one journey.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf#page=12

Slightly off topic, but I recently discovered that day ranger tickets are not subject to the minimum fare on the 16-25 railcard.  Had it confirmed several times by FGW that the Devon and Ride Cornwall rangers are both not subject to the minimum fare, which was confirmed when I used both tickets on consecutive days before 10am.

(Wouldn't it be great if all railcards had the same restrictions)

All valid in 1st Class? The same or no minimum fares? The same or no time restrictions?

To which restrictions do you refer? I certainly wouldn't want to see a time restriction added to the JCP or DSB. Nor for the SNR outside the South-East. I don't think South-East TOCs would go for discounted 1st Class fares to bring into line with DSB, SNR and HMF.

Would you want a minimum fare across all cards?

The thing is the individual restrictions are tailored to the target market of each Railcard.

Mornington Crescent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mornington_Crescent_(game)), all over again.  ::) :o

I've been sold an Oxford Evening Out (which is strictly a rover/ranger) with a Network Railcard discount on weekdays several times, even though it's well below the minimum fare. But oddly there's no Cotswold Line Railcard discount on it. Not that I'm complaining - it's excellent value in any case.

The reason why no discount is allowed on the Oxford Evening Out rover ticket with the Cotswold Line Railcard is quite simple.  The rover is valid beyond the boundary of the railcard at Oxford - to Banbury, Didcot Parkway and even Bicester Town (bus).   An enquiry to FGW Fares Implementation Officer some while ago confirmed that it was not intended to apply for any further "easement" for the use of the Network Railcard.  Therefore, strictly speaking, the Network Railcard discount should only be given on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays.