Great Western Coffee Shop

We have discussed before the merits and pitfalls of trains advertised as pick up only at Reading.

Anyone on tonight's 19:15 from London Paddington to Swansea may have had a surprise.  As the train left London full and standing it was decided to skip the pick up only stop at Reading.  I don't know if any announcements were made before departure - if not, next stop Swindon!

Do you know if there were many over carries then?

No I wasn't on the train tonight - but I have seen people alight at Reading from it in the past.

 ;D

More of that I say.

Having a train that is pick up only on just one day of the week is always likely to catch people out.

That said, there is far too much abuse of nominally 'pick up only' services that call at Reading, by Reading commuters. So, little sympathy for any Reading bound folk who found themselves at Swindon this evening.

There are at least 6 people ranting on Twitter about it not dropping them off at Reading.
The following has been posted to their Facebook about the overcrowding

I wonder why it was so full tonight? Reading that post on facebook it sounds like the conditions were not ideal..Trains to Swansea appear to run every hour after that so it's not like it was the last one..Unless they are all as busy?

Not sure what theproblem was tonight but eveything feom 19:15 to 20:00  on the Down Main was running slowly through Slough.

Hopefully some of the Reading commuters will think again before needlessly filling long distance services!!  ;D


Most of the Swansea services are pretty stuffed at that time of day, the first quietish one out of PAD is usually the 21:15. Fridays are particularly busy, as with most long distance services - I've seen people standing in aisles & vestibules on either the 18.45 or 19.15 on a Friday until well beyond Swindon and quite possibly a few were standing until Cardiff. A good weather forecast or large public events tend to make matters worse...

 

An awful lot of smug self satisfaction on this thread regarding this - I would perhaps suggest its more appropriate to focus on the appallingly overcrowded conditions on the train, and the effect this had on the customers - I spoke to someone who boarded it before it got too crowded and apparently the conditions were dangerous long before it left Paddington and for the whole journey there were people feeling ill, more than one fainted and one poor soul lost control of his bladder as he was unable to get to the toilet - several customers went to platform staff at Paddington before the train left to point out the dangerous overcrowding but were waved away - Health and safety legislation appears not to apply to FGW - one of these days there is going to be a tragedy.......no doubt I will now be told "well its the customers fault for acting like sheep and boarding an already busy train" but it is also incumbent on FGW to ensure that they provide a safe environment -  this is known to be a regularly busy service, use boarding controls and/or ticket restrictions, it's not rocket science.......if this means telling people to wait for the next service then do so - in my industry safety comes first, before everything else.

My understanding is that it does apply, but the generally accepted methods and rules indeed may lead to us thinking that it doesn't.


There's a paradox in that the rail industry goes beyond other means of transport to look after the safety of its passengers, to the extent that the injuries / deaths per mile are way below those of road travel.  And yet we do, indeed, pack 'em in.  I'm sure there's a risk assessment out there somewhere.   

For sure, one of these days someone's going to pass away on an overcrowded train ... but perhaps that person could equally pass away on a quiet train?  I agree that it's more likely on the busy service - but I'm not sure how much that's due to the busyness, and how much it's simply due to there being more people on the train, so more chances?

I am, by the way, asking the questions / putting the points here rather than suggesting any view or answers.  I would love to see a limit to loading of 150% on HSTs, and on class 153 and 158 units.

There is an element of this on the 19:15 on a Friday as it is not advertised as having a Reading stop.  However there is a presumption by many that ALL HSTs stop at Reading.  Further up the thread it was posted that six had reported on Twitter being overcarried.  Now I don't know what the percentage of those affected who would take to Twitter is, but say it is 10% - that means 60 people were on the train who shouldn't have been and would have eased the overcrowding.

It would be interesting to see what the loadings are like next Friday.

When told that it was a late decision to pull the call at Reading, one of the posters on twitter complained why it hadn't been taken off the board at Paddington. But I suspect this was a presumption on his/hers part that it was on there in the first place.

Whether or not the train is stopping there, I would put clear signage at Paddington to say "First set down, Swindon. Reading passengers may not board this train", and repeat that with on board announcements prior to departure. Then excess anyone who ignored it. Harsh maybe, but the purpose is to stop people from Reading using the train to make space for longer distance travellers, and you sometimes need a stick as well as a carrot. 

I was once on an HST at Paddington following disruption when the a train was so full that they announced that it would not leave unless some people to get off.  They asked Passengers for Reading to use a specified alternative train (also an HST for Plymouth if I recall).  Needless to say none did.  So we waited quite a time and the Reading train went first.

That was a case where they should just have announced that the train would not call at Reading and that there was an alternative train waiting at Platform x.  

Provided FGW clearly announce on the train that it is not stopping at Reading (and in my experience they do routinely anyway) then Reading passengers are trying to abuse the system and if they get carried over they must face the inconvenience.

The removal of the stop at Reading is designed to prevent the overcrowding that does occur. There are many fast trains an hour to Reading and only 1 an hour to Swansea.  Standing as far as Reading is not good. This is one way FGW try to manage this for its longer distance passengers who, incidentally, pay much more per mile  than the Reading passengers on a like for like ticket (anytime single 55p per mile for Reading, Swindon 78p, Bristol Parkway 84p, Cardiff 67p, Swansea 8070p).  They should perhaps, therefore have some priority for seats.  

Modified to correct the maths

I wonder if those who were over carried last night were excessed from Swindon to Reading. I doubt it - it would be on social media by now if so.

It would never have been on the board at PAD - the Reading stop, I mean. First station shown would be Swindon. Just goes to show that pax don't read the board before boarding, and just assume that all HSTs stop at Reading.

Other than the operator doing a tad more to educate pax (put an 'A' board with suitable poster at both entrances to requisite platform probably the easiest?) - and then let those Reading pax suffer. Sorry, but it does need both carrot & stick for the benefit of the majority on the train going further.

They'll only get caught once....

If you look at the board at Paddington that list all the trains, every HST that stops at reading has a * at the start of the line.  So the ones that don't do not stop at Reading don't.  Would it be clearer if they reversed it? As I said before whenever I have been on a non-stop train the train manager has always made a special point of announcing it on the train. 

People don't read the posters though. The best way would be a triage of annoucements.. but then again people don't listen to them much either.  ;D

Surely if it just an overcrowding issue for those two trains ONLY then is the answer to remove the stop on a permanent basis?  There must be plenty of options on other services for the limited number of people wanting to join the trains at Reading.

I am guessing by the time of day though the overcrowding is common on all services leaving padd at that time and without increasing capacity it's not really going to help and I think we all know that increasing capacity is not a simple matter of adding additional trains.

For South Wales, they could catch a train 15 mins earlier and change at Swindon, so hardly a great imposition. And whilst that might put more seat pressure on the earlier service west of Reading, given it will have just let the Reading hordes off, I can't imagine that would be too big a problem. It would be more of an issue on any pick up only services going to the South West though.

Post electrification I still think one answer would be to run a few peak hour 10 or 12 coach 115 mph emus from Paddington to Swindon calling only at Reading and Didcot. Offer a reasonable discount for season ticket holders if they were restricted to using these services at times when they were running (ie they could use the longer distance services at other times of day) and I bet you would go a long way to solving the problem of capacity east of Reading and could configure IEPs more appropriately for longer distance travellers.  Could be possible if the HEx paths become free in the early 20s?

yep - that's been my solution for some time - check back up this/other threads

I'm fairly certain that in the evening peak at Paddington there was a service for Wales that didn't stop at Reading and the CIS boards had a line stating this clearly. In addition the PA announcements backed this up (I can't be sure but it may have been a Carmarthen service). Because I've never travelled on that service IDONT know if that is intended to be a pick at Reading only service.

Two things I'm not sure of with respect to Reading pickup only services

1) what the window labels say
2) what does real time trains report

Friday's service showed it stopping at Reading and gave no indication that it was pick up only. However, that's a problem for RTT to solve (if it so wishes) - don't think you can expect the railway to take account of unofficial web services that may give inaccurate information. National Rail's site is a different matter, as it is the official source of information, but I'm not sure it's possible to look back to Friday on that.

Well if you ask National Rail for a Train from Paddington to Reading next Friday, it does not list the 19:15.  If you then ask for a train to Swindon it is listed, but if you ask for calling points it lists Reading as depart only.

RTT is actually correct from what I can see. If you look at the public timetable on RTT rather than the working timetable, it will not give you an arrival time for Reading.

What happened to people travelling from Reading? If this were the normal arrangement then they would just plan to catch an earlier train, but in this case it would have been a cancellation as far as they were concerned, although if advised early enough and on the platform early enough, some could have made it to Swindon. So implication for FGW would be compensating an hour's delay, plus dealing with missed last connection to Milford Haven (should there be anyone requiring it from Reading). Of course, if it were that busy, they wouldn't have been able to get on anyway.

On a regular basis on the 1803 PAD-PNZ I would invariably have passengers on at Reading for the Frome stopper (1805 ex-PAD), and despite 2-3 announcements before departing there would normally be a handful of passengers travelling to Newbury or Thatcham via Taunton.

On the same train when it is pick-up only Friday nights at Reading, I would stand on the platform and tell passengers this is not for Reading.  I've been called a liar (and worse) because "this always stops at Reading".  :-\

In the days when the mail was still carried by train there was a night when a postie loading bags on the Travelling Post Office at Reading somehow got shut in one of the baggage vans and endured a rather cold journey to Bristol Temple Meads.  He then travelled, in somewhat more comfort, on the Up TPO and arrived back at Reading some five hours after he left.  His colleagues, realising what had happened, covered for his absence and no more was said.

There was at one point a 19.12 departure to Swansea which was first stop Bristol Parkway and the normal stopping pattern thereafter. It appeared in timetables for a while and possibly ran once or twice, but according to a FGW train manager I spoke to one time, it was canned by the DfT, even though FGW had available trains, staff, paths etc. It would've provided a very welcome relief to the overcrowding on the Paddington to S.Wales services at that time of day and I'm sure would have been a popular service.

It certainly ran once - last August - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12791.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12791.0)

That's correct, although I don't think you can expect Joe Public to realise the implications of not showing an arrival time as being "you can't get on this train and get off it at Reading". In reality, I doubt whether anyone on that train who expected to get off at Reading was relying on RTT - most just boarded knowing full well it usually stops at Reading  but they shouldn't be on board, and maybe a small proportion were genuinely caught out.

The 1915 FO should always be first stop SWI (ie not PU or SD at RDG). This train gets extremely overcrowded (I define overcrowding by Thameslink 'standards') and I have known some TMs refuse to take the train due to the overcrowding.

It will only take a few PAD-RDG season ticket holders to be excessed for not using their brain and looking at the screens, ah it says it doesn't stop at RDG maybe today it doesnt.

The trouble is it's all customer service now and I bet FGW would refund any excesses that were rightly issued.

I think the inconvenience of an extra hour+ onto the intended 25 minute journey would be enough for one to double check in the future, rather than excessing (just my personal opinion).  It is something that would have to run non-stop every week, or it just causes confusion for all.


I am sure there are window labels without Reading on.

Indeed there are labels which do not say RDG on them. It is normally agreed before hand by the AOM to remove RDG from the CIS (which is default not to show it).
Sometimes the XX:03 FO WoE services get the RDG stop taken off the CIS as well.

In the past I used to inform people I knew went to RDG that the 1915 FO wasn't scheduled to call and got abuse thrown back at me, so now I just don't care. Sooner it becomes perma first stop SWI the better and get some revenue guys to excess the lot of them. (Seeing as you can't PF them).

I have sympathy with SDS because of the abuse, but my vote would be with Super Guard as it is a more customer centred approach for those who made a genuine error.

Genuine error not to read departure boards and just assume?....hmm

If you have got used to the idea that all HSTs stop at Reading or that the 19:15 stops at Reading on other days - Yes genuine error not looking at the departure boards.

I have the feeling that this is one of those threads where contributors nay have to agree to disagree.

I am curious to know what contributors feel about the scenario where a clear PA announcement was made prior to departure from paddington stating that "this service is not scheduled to stop at Reading" . Should passengers who chose to ignore this be excessed?

Absolutely!

Still think that more than an hour's delay would be sufficient disincentive. Assuming they did get the train back!

After PAs are made and its shown as first stop SWI then defo Excess with a threat that if they are caught again then prosecution could result!

Because of the selfish nature of those who are deliberately ignoring the 'pick up' only rule that have been put in place for a reason, to allow those who are travelling long distance on less frequent services to be able to travel, I have no sympathy with anyone who ends up in Swindon or Taunton.

Sadly the only solution available to FGW to stop this happening is to remove Reading stops on some peak time services. Yes that would be an inconvenience for those wishing to board at Reading, but as has been suggested travel on an earlier service and change onto the train that didn't stop at Reading further down the line.

I'm going to state that my journey from London to Thatcham often requires a change at Reading and often the option of catching an earlier service isn't always available to me.

Having said that I feel there are enough service options to get me back to Reading without catching a service that May or May not stop at Reading allowing me to change for a local service

That is not such much a problem for South Wales services where there are other services to Didcot or Swindon to catch the train - but still an inconvenience. However on the West of England run it is less easy. Apart from the fact most are pick up only at Reading at present so could potentially run non stop under your suggestion, those which aren't tend to run via Bristol so you'd either end up prolonging your journey even more or end up on a XC Voyager.

I agree though something needs to be done - perhaps manual ticket checks on the platform?

Block the staircases and switch all escalators into to "down"?

Elf and safety would have a field day !

Charge them to return to Reading too!

A poster on rail forums who's a TM for fgw has said there was approximately 80 for reading ended up in Swindon. This is almost a full carriage on a HST that the further traveller has been deprived of and potentially turned away.

And you cannot tell me that all 80 didn't know that they shouldn't have been on the 1915.

"But im an Annual Gold Card holder so I know everything and how dare you tell me what to do.... I pay your wages etc etc etc"

Not to forget the equivalent amount of space taken up returning these individuals to Reading...

Well if they had tried that in 1972 they would have ended up in some very exotic places  ;D  :D  ::)

(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/1379866239/WR%201972%20Timetable.jpg?cache=0.937130767153576)