Great Western Coffee Shop

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/05/19/first-great-western-looks-increase-ticket-sales-85m-campaign?

Not certain how well this is going to work !

At holiday times, many FGW services are already grossly overcrowded and offer most unpleasant journies.
I have been on a few summer peak services when the prevailing view of leisure travellers was "never again" after paying a lot to stand for hours.

And whilst First class is more comfortable, this has recently been much reduced and fares substantialy increased.

Add to that some years of disruption ESPECIALY AT HOLIDAY TIMES for electrification works and other upgrades.

Thanks to the reduction in First Class there will be up to an extra carriage for holiday makers, the majority of whom I imagine travel in First Class, so there should be some space left for FGW to fill.

Standard class, you mean?

Sorry yes, I imagine the majority of holiday makers travel in Standard not First Class.

......couldn't agree more, grossly overcrowded trains, high fares (especially on Fridays), long distance bustitution at weekends, ridiculously overpriced catering (when available).....if I was heading west on holiday rail would not be the chosen option.....especially if heading West of Plymouth, and especially if travelling with young children.

So on a saturday in August there are currently tickets available from London to Newquay (around 5 hrs) for under ^40 for a family of 4 (with a family railcard). No change required, no bustitution and your seats are reserved.  And if you don't want to pay for the catering on board then there's a Sainsburys and M&S available at Paddington.

No A303, No M5, No A30, no services on the M5 that are so crowded that you have to queue to get into, when your young child is desparate, having announced that they need to go as you are sailing past the previous service station.

Seems quite an attractive option to me.

...........so I've got to get a railcard, and commit myself and my family to one train on one day 3 months hence? It's OK if flexibility is not an issue I guess.

As to the toilet, I'd much rather go at a service station where they are kept reasonably clean and hygienic.......have you tried a train toilet on a packed service after 3 or 4 hours?

I'd take my chances on the road I think, A303 is a lovely drive, might even stop for a picnic!  :)

Don't get me wrong, if it's just me I'd take the train every time.......but if it's a group on hols, no thanks, not practical.

On an August weekend with two kids strapped in the back for six hours? Chances of a pleasurable journey, free of queueing traffic and back seat tantrums are close to zero I'd suggest.

Chances of the train getting there on time, with the kids able to move about and be distracting without risk to the parent driving? Much higher. 

In the back? The beer is in a fridge on the back seat, the kids are in the boot!  :D

Both road and rail have their merits of course, but rail tends to be very expensive if not booked far in advance.
There is also the risk of a "fine" of hundreds of pounds if not able to get the booked train.
Petrol and the costs of motoring dont vary much according to departure time.

Going by car you allways get a seat ! apart from kids put in the boot of course  :D

I have seen FGW trains overcrowded to what IMHO was a dangerous level, and was certainly very uncomfortable. I for one was not impressed at having to stand to Taunton despite having paid the full first class fare.
Bustitution is not inevitable but does seem to be a frequent event especialy around Christmas, Easter and other holidays.

So are there no overnight trains to the west country, for folk who like to travel well and truly off peak?   ;D  That's the wonder of caravanning, I can travel overnight if I'm anticipating heavy traffic.  The type of sites I visit these days are usually blessed with a parking bay for (well and truly) early arrivals.  However, now I'm retired I usually avoid Bank Holidays and such like the plague.  Whatever the season, I prefer travelling in the wee small hours, not just because it's quiet, but because I can thumb my nose at the Jeremy Clarkson camp and say WHAT road nuisance?   ;)
Holiday trains?  Sorry, my would-be green credentials fly out of the window at the thought.

23:45 from Paddington, 00:37 from Reading. Taunton at 02:35 ... Penzance at 07:53.   It has a leisurely pace with pauses at Exeter and Plymouth for more that usual time to let passengers change trains. 

Logically it could be routed via Chippenham and Westbury and call (as required?) along the TransWilts on its way, very much like the Fort William sleeper (currently also operated by First) does at Ardlui, Corrour and Roy Bridge. As far as Chippenham, there's a train just a few minutes ahead from London - the 23:30; beyond there the current last service from Paddington is 21:00 to Melksham (by bus from Chippenham), 21:45 to Trowbridge, Westbury and Frome, and 20:35 to Castle Cary. Silly idea?  Maybe, but some ideas that have looked silly in the past to certain people have come to pass.  Issues to be considered .. need to divert train during engineering works, extra jolts waking sleeper passengers at more stops, need for stop boards at Melksham. Don't hold you breath waiting - that's dangerous; see here (http://www.katu.com/news/local/Police-Driver-holding-breath-through-tunnel-faints-causes-3-vehicle-crash-260671691.html).

I'm not sure that the sleeping pax would appreciate extra stops the 'wrong side' of 0230!

I always awake at Exeter & that's too early frankly...i'd be wuite happy for first stop after Reading to be Plymouth...

As for the comparison with Scotrail sleeper, what times do those stops you mention occur? A lot later than they would on FGWs....

Indeed. The West Highland stops made by the Caledonian Sleeeper are more akin to those made by the Night Riviera in Cornwall, where the service acts as the first local train of the morning.

Having to provide alternative transport arrangements on the very frequent occasions when the sleeper doesn't use the TransWilts would not be particularly conducive to ensuring and retaining regular usage by passengers.

For the same reasons is why the Night Riviera doesn't stop for passengers at Swindon, Newbury, Westbury, Bristol, Yatton, Nailsea & Backwell, Bridgwater... all could have as much of a call on er.. calls as Melksham.

If a family is going on holiday, how exactly is committing yourself to one train 3 months in advance any different to booking a flight?  ???

Yep, flagged up in my post.  I suspect that the big problem is the Sunday night train, which is also the least important because ...


The call is for a late service from London although Cynthia's origin post looked at heading west.  Swindon and Bristol already have the 23:30 - just 15 minutes ahead, so the sleeper would provide little extra. There's a pretty late Exeter train via Nailsea too.  But the final Melksham train is a connection off the 19:00 - not 15 but 285 minutes earlier.


Yep, noted as a potential issue in my original post.  Interesting you talk about waking at Exeter where there's an extended stop, rather than on the brief pause at Taunton.  Perhaps you wouldn't notice another couple of quiet stops?  I know I don't when on the (Caledonian) sleeper, but it's personal thing.

Non-stop Reading to Plymouth is a bit of a red rag at the moment;  faster journey times (get you to Plymouth at 4 a.m.?) in place of loosing intermediate traffic.  Daytime there are very big flow indeed from Westbury to the west ... I was astonished at the crowds at about 19:30 on Sunday joining the Plymouth (or was in Penzance?) train.

I think you should be pushing for a later service local on the TransWilts, connecting off a later service from London, not trying to shoehorn in extra stops on the Night Riviera, which can, and often does, change route on the day. Sometimes even after departure. Fixing a stop at Melksham loses all the operational flexibility the Sleeper currently enjoys.

...and for that reason alone, Network Rail would veto it.

Remember, there is not even a Taunton stop on a Sunday night in either direction.

I seem to remember a documentary a few years back about the special "holiday trains" which took groups workers to resorts such as Blackpool during "Wakes week" and/or Glasgow Shipyard fortnight back in the 30s/40s/50s/60s - seemed to be mostly for Northern resorts but was there ever anything similar in the South West?

I understand that during holiday / works shutdown weeks, trains were run from Swindon to Weymouth to take the railway workers to the seaside.

Swindon had its "Trip Week" when the railway works closed and the workers went on special trains to a variety of destinations on the South Coast and into the South West.

http://swindonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/trip.html (http://swindonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/trip.html)