Great Western Coffee Shop

Credit or debit card has become almost universal, but I remember at one time being told that this method of paying was purely a facility that companies could offer, and that potential customer owing money / debts being settled could legally be required to pay / settle debts in cash.

Will people who turn up at the station with a card have to scurry off to the nearest ATM?  ::)

TOCs are obliged by their Franchise Agreement and the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/RSPDocuments/TSA%20V9_4%20-%20Main%20Agreement%20(Volume%201).pdf#page=196) to accept credit and debit cards at regulated stations (http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/RSPDocuments/SCHEDULE%2017%20-%20August%20'12.pdf#page=10). Furze Platt is one such station.

If for technical reasons that isn't possible then I'd hope passengers would be given permission to travel and to then purchase at the next available opportunity. I don't think sending them to an ATM is particularly practical as it could mean missing a train. Looking at Google Maps the nearest ATM is a 6 minute round trip on foot. That one is in a convenience store and may not be free to use.

According to Link's ATM finder (http://www.link.co.uk/ATMLocator/Pages/ATMLocator.aspx), it is a free to use cash machine - but I agree with bignosemac, that is hardly the point.  Passengers without cash should be allowed to buy on board or at their destination station (or interchange station if there is time).

And vice-versa for those TVMs where cash payments have been disbaled (some stations on the North Downs Line at least) where the passenger does not have a usable card, no other facilities available etc.

The law is that cash is legal tender and a vendor can refuse to accept other forms in payment such as cheques and credit/debit cards at their discretion. As pointed out above, contracts such as the rail companies have may provide that the company has to offer such a service. Remember also that there are legal limits on the amount and form of a cash payment. A shop may refuse to accept a cash payment offered in the form of a large number of small value coins, the exact limits of which I cannot now recall. As a former cashier I well remember people who collected all their small change in a large container coming in to pay their rates bill and they were a pain in the neck. Although in law I could have refused such payment, it was my authority's policy to accept any method. Of course in those days there was no such thing as cards.

The other side of the coin (or should that be note) is some places will not accept ^50 notes for low value transactions.  That includes those TVMs which do accept cash.

You would think that FGW would have one or two mobile credit card machines for use in emergencies. Not a hope!

'Legal Tender' actually has a very narrow definition and a shop/service provider is neither breaking nor complying with any laws as regards the denominations it is willing to accept or refuse. It's entirely a matter between the shop/service provider and customer to agree price and payment. Only when it comes to the settling of debts does 'legal tender' become legally defined.

From  The Royal Mint's Legal Tender Guidlines (http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines[/url):

I have had my ^20 coins (not notes) refused when attempting to pay my council tax bill and also when trying to purchase a ticket from Liverpool Street. Mind you they are sterling silver and pretty rare.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10288185/Royal-Mint-creates-first-20-coin.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10288185/Royal-Mint-creates-first-20-coin.html)


I do remember one dispute I had with my useless local council. I threatened to pay in ^1 coins if the issue was never resolved. It wasn't so I phoned the bank up, made an order for the ^1 coins, then went to the council offices and paid for it in ^1 coins. Took the poor lass ages to count it all up, told her the real reasons why and who she could harass and blame upstairs for it.
Anyway the very next day an apologetic phone call came and the issue was resolved pretty quickly afterwards.

Well the station were free to say no as they are under no legal obligation to accept a ^20 coin. Or any monies proffered. It is entirely a matter between customer and service provider/retailer as to how a transaction is completed. If they refuse your money you have no recourse to law. Legal tender does not have to be accepted before a debt arises.

With the council though you offered legal tender to settle a debt. They can still refuse your ^20 coin, but the debt would remain. A debt is not discharged if you offer legal tender and it is refused. Should the council sue to recover the debt they would be unlikely to be awarded costs after refusing legal tender and prosecution for non-payment would likely fail. The court would likely just order the debt be paid and the council told to accept the legal tender.

I remember doing something similar when settling with my "ex";  some investments were in my name, but the agreement made was that I get the equity in the house and she get the investments.  That was arranged in two halves and she was unhappy (British understatement!  ;) ) when I simply transferred assets over so that she could the convert them to whatever she wanted without losses "churning" though several forms.   She was - furious - "I wanted and asked for CASH".   So that's what she got for the second tranche - and there was a special bank order and rather a lot of bits of paper!  "That was very silly and childish ... I meant a cheque ... "  ;)

All a very long time ago - Lisa and I have been married 16 years this year after courting for two,  and I didn't even know Lisa until I was divorced.  Don't think of the ex too often these days, thanks for bringing her back SDS  ;D . Wounds do heal, though ... saw her last summer at our daughter's wedding and reception; she seems happy with her new 'family'. Should probably have asked for some cash to help with wedding costs.

As a now ex Local Government Officer it is sad to read the comments above about useless local authorities but I suspect they may be right. 50 years ago one of my first jobs was as a local authority cashier (before I qualified as a professional CIPFA accountant) and the emphasis was always on customer service and helping the customer even if it meant spending quarter of an hour counting a huge bottle of coins brought in to pay the rates bill. I was also a rent collector for a while and well remember one very elderly tenant who lived alone and was both blind and deaf. I was told that after dealing with her rent payment, I had to clear out the fire, bring in from the back yard the logs and coal for the day and make sure the fire was going. I communicat5ed with her by writing with my finger on the palm of her hand. But that was in the days when there was customer service and my boss, the Borough Treasurer, always used to say try and give a smile and a thank you to customers. It makes me glad that I am now retired when I read how public service has deteriorated over the years.

I went down the post office today to be annoying see if they would accept my coins.

The cashier had never seen a ^20 coin before. I also have a load of ^5 coins/crowns as well. Apparently they can accept the ^5 coins for payments of services, but the ^20 is a no no as its not on 'approved list'.
What the hell they gonna think when the new ^10/ ^25/ ^50/ ^100 coins start appearing??

I suppose part of the problem is that it is hard to tell an official Royal Mint ^5 coin apart from a Tom/Dick/Harry ^5 coin, which if you are lucky is only valid in Jersey, if at all.

I've done some research and it appears the Royal Mint have never produced a ^20 coin - BUT one will be released and shipped to those that ordered one this July according to their website (http://www.royalmint.com/pre-register/2014-20-pound-coin).

That link states quite clearly that the first ^20 coin has now sold out. The one currently advertised will be the second issue of a ^20 coin.

The ^20 'George & Dragon' coin was struck and issued in 2013. 250,000 issued and now sold out. Plenty available on the second hand market.

Ah I misinterpreted the page as saying those that ordered previously were getting delivery this July with a 2nd batch after that.

Seems a shame to spend a ^20 coin given their rarity.

The ^20 coin caused a bit of a stink when it was introduced because it was clear from the start that banks wouldn't have anything to do with them and it only has about ^8 worth of silver in it.

It seems we are getting like those countries that produce large numbers of commemorative coins in different denominations to force completest collectors to buy them all.

They even did a ^1k kilo coin. However this was gold and well wasn't cheap.

I'd be slightly careful with that statement, i may have misread it however. Although I may be talking here about Civil Debts. An Original "Creditor" cannot refuse payment for a debt. For example. I fail to make a payment on my mobile phone contract and the account is passed over to a third party debt collections agency. The collections agency can hassle me for payment (within strict reason and guidelines they frequently ignore), but if I decide to ignore them and pay the original creditor directly. I have every right to do so. The DCA will throw all its toys out the pram will not like this. Tough. That's law.

There is one mobile phone company that springs to mind (well three actually; they're all one and the same now) who will "refuse" to accept payments for accounts once the debt has been assigned to a collections agency. (Note; Assigned, not sold where this is a big difference). However if you put a letter in the post with a cheque for the overdue amount and remind the Mobile Company of it's requirements as defined by the Financial Conduct Authority... The matter will become "closed" and the account "settled" very quickly... Funny that ::) ;D Might take the DCA a while to go away, who will get rather upset they've lost their commission... My heart bleeds!

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I'm sorry, but the comments here *are* right... I had trouble with some Council Tax a while back where I was completely unaware that I had an outstanding Council Tax Bill I had never paid. The first I became aware was when a Bailiff turned up at my door at my new address. Consquently he didn't get his "Walk-in Possession" and he went away again after getting bored as I didn't come to the door.

A phone call to the district council came to show an outstanding balance of ^19.70 on my previous address. A lengthy argument kicked off as to resolving the matter. I offered to settle the account immediately and was told to speak to the bailiffs. I refused and said I will only pay original creditors and not any third parties. When asked why I had not notified the council of my new address I was giving a brilliant example which I blew well out of the water was thus:

"If you move house and notify your electric company, you should in turn notify your gas company too"

"Ah yes. But if I have a dual fuels tariff with my utility provider I only need to inform one company who will deal with both accounts there and then. So one would expect that in asking for a change of claim for the smallest amount of Housing Benefit I receive, that as the council are the same company, somehow this would be brought to the attention of the Council Tax Department. As such if I only have one fuel I.E. Only a Electric Supply, I would only notify Council Tax anyway as it's not relevant to notify for something that doesn't exist. I.E. a Housing Benefit Claim. So I'm sorry but that is not a valid argument and has only strengthened mine"

I was then asked how I would like to resolve the matter. I asked to pay the bill and close the matter. Again told to speak to bailiffs. I was then rather flippant and suggested that if I kept being harassed by bailiffs for ^19.70 + Their Fees that there would become a point where my mental health conditions would render me unaccountable to my actions.

This is when the conversation changed completely "If you can supply proof of your mental health condition sir, I will contact the bailiffs and request they return the account as you would be classed a vulnerable person"

Not perhaps the route I wanted to take at all... But it worked I guess ::) :-[ :-X :-\