Great Western Coffee Shop

Go here to sign a petition on the Government website to get FGW removed from the franchise as they are clearly incompetent :

 http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/FirstGW/
 

As i've said many times before, it's not going to happen.

Not another...

I don't think it will be impossible for FGW to not lose the franchise.

For instance, they have already received a yellow card for performance in the first year and a half of the franchise. As a result, I suspect that if performance dies off again it is highly possible, and with pressure from user groups and Passenger Focus it would most likely be possible.

For what its worth, the next franchise up will be Southern (South Central) - and I hear one of the terms of that franchise is to look at integrating journies better with Great Western around Southampton in order to allow GW to pull out of Brighton. (the Brighton services will be withdrawn and most likely the units released will be used across the region to bolster existing services).

This process is already beginning with the recent introduction of the Southampton-Brighton service.

That service was introduced due to the South Western franchise, what I'm talking about is an entirely different kettle of fish.

My sources tell me that the December 2009 timetable will include an additional Southampton Central - Brighton service every 3 hours, calling at Southampton Airport, Eastleigh, Fareham, Cosham, Havant, Chichester, Barnham, Worthing, Hove and Brighton ....

The perfect thing about this little scheme will be that it will allow travelling between Southampton Airport and Gatwick Airport with only one change without having to lug bags on bridges or in lifts, something BAA are pushing for.

Agreed. What interests me is working out what type of services would best connect into FGW services at Southampton.

I note with interest the bit at the end of your original post.....

yawn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....usual rubbish, would you remove someone who is paying you billions^ and replace them with someone else whos only going to run it for a subsidy

And it's all going to magicly get better overnight, the DFT (government-state) are the main baddies in all this anyway, so you want them to take over the entire franchise???? It would probably be in a bigger mess than it is now!

YAWN!!!






Where ever do you hear all this claptrap?

Remember that First have only to provide the base service stipulated in the franchise contract. The advertised timetable is over well and above that so I am sorry to dissapoint you but they'll be here for a few more years yet. Still you can always dream on eh!

That wouldnt necessarily be the case. National Express took over the East Coast, having pledged to pay a higher overall premium than GNER originally did.


That's the billion dollar (or pound) question, isnt it? The DfT's past record doesnt bode well.

According to the RMT link below, on Friday 5 January 2007 FirstGroup chief executive, Moir Lockhead and (the then) FGW Managing Director, Alison Foster received a 'yellow card' warning from Department for Transport officials that unless services improved FirstGroup would lose the Greater Western franchise.
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2007/01/end_train_overcrowding_scandal.html

Do you know for sure that Tom's claims regarding the Southern Franchise are false, 12hoursunday?

"Remember that First have only to provide the base service stipulated in the franchise contract."

But they're not. Just look at their passenger charter figures.

As 12hoursunday pointed out, FGW are running quite a few more trains than they are contracted to.

First have today published their passenger charter figures for the last 4 week period. As anyone who uses this forum will expect they've taken a marked turn for the worse. As an example, Bristol area cancellations, last 12 months average 2.9%, last 4 weeks 6.8%, target, 0.5%. In other words, cancellations ran at 1360% of the franchise target.

First might be scheduling more services than they are contracted to, but that's not much use to its passengers, sorry customers, if they don't actually run.

The other services are equally awful, with punctuality on the Thames Valley falling to 64%. 

I'd be interested if you had any Devon figures?

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=265

should link to the details. For Devon, reliability "only" dropped from 0.9% cancelled over the last year to 1.7% in the last 4 week period. Punctuality worsened from 12.1% late over 12 months to 23.9% in the last 4 weeks. Targets are 0.5% and 8% respectively.

Interesting reliability was a lot worse for Cornish services, but punctuality better than target.

It would be really interesting if someone had tracked these figures from the days of Wessex Trains.

Under Wessex it was more often than not 100% for reliability on Plymouth and Cornwall services and rarely went below 99%, punctuality usually about 97%. slightly better than today!

It's often forgotten that when First's winning Bid was announced there was a Stunned Silence from the Railway Industry.
 
First's bid for Greater Western was very generous to the DfT, albeit Sea  Containers had a similar bid for GNER, but GNER ONLY RUN (or ran) Profitable High Speed Services, and even then when it came to payback time the keys were handed back.

The fact IS that First miscalculated the amount of units required, miscalculated passenger numbers, they could blame DfT for outdated figures, but to me they just didn't do their homework.

First have so far failed to Harmonise the terms and conditions of FGW, FGW Link and Wessex Trains staff, which when achieved will bring about much greater operational flexibility, as after training HST staff would be able to work local trains and vice visa, this would hopefully reduce the high number of Cancelled trains.

Personally I think First have got their sums wrong over the Greater Western Franchise and I can see First giving up the Keys in about 12-18 months, could be later say 3 or 4 years if DfT stand their ground and say Hand one Franchise back, hand them all back.

Surely if all drivers are able to drive the same stock, they would all opt to drive HSTs and few staff would be left on our crappy units?

I always knew that First would win the Greater Western franchise and despite my disapointment that they won, I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt even though the warnings both in rail journals and the media that cuts in rolling stock would bring trouble to this franchise. Looking back its been far worse then I ever thought it would be but I suspect FGW are saying that as well.

They would be rostered to work, like they do now, drivers can't just pick and choose what they want to do, otherwise you'd get drivers now saying " I want to work the main line because I don't want to do loads of trips to St ives".

Back in times now past, Train Drivers had a much more enjoyable Job as as they gained Route and Traction Knowledge their job became more rewarding with different trains to drive.

It was possible at one time for a Train Driver to work a crack express up to London and then work a Slow all stopper back home and then work a 25 mph max speed freight train the next day.

Since work has become more routine and boreing for Drivers the Amount of SPADS (signal passed at danger) increased, only modern safety features reversed this figure.

Only reported SPADS, in BR days most minor SPADS would have been covered up, these days with data recorders then NOTHING can be covered up.

IMO FGW are good at running the high speed services but I wish Wessex trains would come back to run the local services.   I know it will never happen though but I miss Wessex trains.

I think most of the ex-Wessex staff and passengers would agree with you there. Come to think of it I suspect First wouldn't mind Wessex coming back and taking the local 'West' services off their hands as thats where most of the problems are with a lot less revenue. FGW do a pretty good job with the high speed services but ever since the Dec 06 TT change the local services have gone downhill.

I agree it has gone downhill since Dec 06 however resuming the Cardiff-Taunton service in Dec 07 was a good move IMO.

I think you are right but I have still signe dteh petition because - 1) I hate First Group and they deserve as much crap as we can shovel on them, 2) I might weaken their chances of winning any more franchises, 3) who knows what will happen if/when the government changes.  A new governemnt is not going to be able to resist tinkering and it is therefoire inportant that passenger views of FGW are known to everyone concerned.

If you hate them so much then don't use their services! quite a simple answer really??

All very well and good saying that - but what if there no alternative rail services, vacman?

There's always an alternative!

If I lived in GW land I wouldn't!

I don't drive, I don't have a bike, I mainly take local bus services and rail services - so if I was trying to get from Clifton Down to Evesham that would be a bit problematic.

Maybe so but you'd just have to put up with it!

Sometimes I have no alternative but to use their services, but I do use them much less than I used to.   I travel to london on Business much less often now and when I do I an much more inclined to book a cheap fare or save money by re-booking at Didcot.   As most of my travel is on expenses I don't personally save any money but I estimate that my annual spend with FGW has gone from about ^4,000 to about ^1,500 (all boooked through the Chiltern Railways website so that the 9% commision on tciket sales is denied to FGW).  I also try to aviod Furst Group buses where possible.

The railway is a private business and if competition and capitalism is ever going to have a chance of working properly on the railways (some hope I know), good companies must prosper more than bad companies.  I consider FGW to be a bad company and therefore resent spending money with them in a way that I don't resent spending money with GNER (as was) or Chiltern.   

Stop stressing about fgw Tim mate and chill out a bit

....Deep breathing, in out, in, out.

Perhaps hate is the wrong word, but in my perfect world good companies would prosper and bad companies suffer.

Bad companies always suffer in the end, I think FGW are unlucky as much as anything else!

FGW aren't unlucky, they didn't do their HOMEWORK correctly over their franchise bid.

They were hoping to cut loads of services, run the minimum service levels that the franchise allows, squeeze more people into the trains at Higher fares and expect EVERYBODY to be HAPPY!

I can't see FIRST still running Great Western in 3 year, when they want to hand back the Keys I hope the DfT tell First, Fine, hand 1 franchise back, hand ALL YOUR franchises back!

Whats wrong with TPEX/FSR then?

And Hull trains and to an extent FCC??

It's a principal, if First want to hand back the Keys of Great Western because they got their franchise figures wrong, just remember we might have had a MUCH BETTER GREAT WESTERN service if NAT EXP or Stagecoach had won the Bid, they lost out to First's TOTALLY OVER THE TOP bid.

So it is only fair, on everybody if First want to hand back the Keys, then they hand back the keys to FCC and First ScotRail.

They would keep Hull Trains and First Trans-P,
Hull trains is a open access operation.
FTP is a joint franchise.

National Express?

They've done a sterling job with 'One' and Central Trains. Both First Great Eastern and Anglia had reasonably good reputations, Anglia Intercity in particular. One in comparison is dire.

Central Trains meanwhile was a continual hotbed of industrial action. Loads of strikes and large scale bustitution on Sundays. Also ask Northampton commuters how they feel about their Birmingham to London Silverlink service being severed in two, and what was once an express service, now turning into an extension of the West Midlands PTE stopping Birmingham to Coventry train.

Stagecoach?

SWT: Handing back perfectly good 442 units (effectively a 3rd rail unit version of the HST), and cascading 3+2 seating commuter units onto Portsmouth to London mainline expresses, so that the express trains from the Portsmouth routes could be used to on the Weymouth line, in order to save a bit of money.

East Midlands Trains: Removal of buffet cars, replacing HST's on London to Sheffield services with Voyager derivative trains.

Things aren't always as perfect as they might seem!

But at least OTHER TOC's including First ScotRail etc, are running most of their services correctly, and not cancelling them like flies around a jam jar

Central cancelled PLENTY of trains because of staffing issues! There are TOCs that are worse than FGW, National express East Coast are usually the only company below FGW for performance!

I doubt theres any figures out for National Express East Coast yet!

Really I was referring to GNER who have recently been taken over by NX!

With you on that one. 442s were great units because they were MK3 rolling stock. Great shame they were pulled off the Weymouth-Waterloo service which as you say led to 450 commuter stock being used on Portsmouth-London services.

But at least OTHER TOC's including First ScotRail etc, are running most of their services correctly, and not cancelling them like flies around a jam jar
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As another poster as pointed out, Central trains and to a lesser degree Silverlink and Midland Mainline have done exactly just that. Great Western certainly is nowhere near perfect, but it's a myth that other operators are much better.

I will not defend SWT on this one ... the 444s were procured on the basis that when Weymouth 2tph happened, the 442s would still be in service - and that alternative stock would have been searched for when the time for renewal occured. FWIW, it goes to show that Southern are keeping the current traction motors and only replacing one connector that old technology WORKS.

That I will defend. EMT is very much a different market to say, NXEC or FGW. While they may have HST stock, they also have DMUs. Meridians accelerate faster than HSTs, and as such are better equipped for services that go longer distance as it aids cutting journey times. The HSTs will be put on shorter distance services, such as Nottingham - which do not require buffets as much as Sheffields do. The replacement for the buffet car being removed is a trolley, and there is a galley being fitted to an FO at the opposite end to each rake (TGS being the other end). ATM though I believe they have run into problems with stock availability to do this, oh and that age old money.