Great Western Coffee Shop

I was struck by some statistics the other day reporting the TransWilts service as "full and standing" and yet the passenger count was around 10% below the number of seats that the train has.   And I know I don't always sit down in that last seat ...

To help me understand the metrics (and I'll admit more for academic interest than for any known consequential use of the data on this occasion) please tell me under which circumstances you would occupy a seat from the options given.   Let's make an assumption that you are travelling solo - I'm aware that most of us are more likely to sit beside someone we know ....

A couple of other options I have encountered.

I will often ask someone sitting on an aisle seat if I can sit in the unoccupied window seat and, though not strictly relevant here, I will not always ask someone to move out of my reserved seat if there is similar accomodation nearby.

As for not asking someone to move their Under 5 from a seat, that is where self-preservation kicks in.  I'd rather not spend the rest of the journey sitting next to a fractious child and their even more fractious parent trying to pacify them!

/Pedant alert/


This makes me immediately want to select 7! Oh I can't - damn!

I didn't initially select this one, but then I recalled a memorable occasion when I did.  The train I got off at Paddington was involved in an incident when the fuel tank fell off and caught fire. When some of the passengers got out of the train a person was killed by a passing train.  The safety notices on HSTs today were the result.  Of course my following train was heavily delayed and arrived at Swindon at about 1:00 am rather than 21:00.

<excuse>We are limited by what the software we're running offers and how it says things.  Not really worth my while pouring in huge amounts of time to fix as "yous all knows what it means"</excuse>

That will probably be thetrout ...  ;) :D ;D

nah... he's lording it up in Coach H!  ;D

I once had to ask someone to move their child so I could take my seat - on a flight from Heathrow to Cagliari. It was ghastly! The child was uncomfortable, its parent was uncomfortable; fortunately when the vomit started flying none of it hit me (it's bad enough when your own child throws up on you...).

BMI calculations determine that I am almost obese. I don't think I am particularly wide but I do have a beer belly at the front. I dislike sitting in the middle or window seat in the row of 3 on a turbo. I find those seats very cramped and uncomfortable. I normally only sit there if the other occupants are not taking up much space themselves. I often used to avoid the rush hour crush by popping into the Mad Bishop at Paddington for a bit. Probably where my belly came from.

It looks like my comments previous have been taken on board... ;D

For the record my personal preferences/habits are thus:

• 1) I will always sit on an Aisle Seat or Individual Seat (latter is rare, depends on my mood of the day) ::)
• 2) If I cannot get an Aisle Seat or 'flip down' seat in the Vestibule I will stand or perch on the luggage rack
• 3) If standing is not an option (i.e. Medical) Then I will seek the conductor/TM out if possible to explain the reasons for a seat OR ask someone nicely if they wouldn't mind freeing a priority needs seat

Number three on that list is exceedingly rare and have only had to do it twice this year!

• Anyone is welcome to use the Window Seat next to me and I will always stand to allow the person to move in and out as per their needs/requirements throughout the journey
• I sometimes put my bag on the window seat next to me when sat at a Table. If someone wants the window seat I will move the bag without hesitation - This is done as I will otherwise forget the bag if with me ::)

Agreed; generally I don't do this either. And for those who do request their reserved seat. I can understand if the train is busy, but when there is for example an Empty Carriage my logic brain hurts at this point.

A while back I took a CrossCountry HST service from Exeter St Davids - Birmingham New Street. I took a seat in Coach A. It was the pair of seats facing the Disabled Toilet (Where the Wheelchair Space is). In general, no-one really wants to sit in those seats because A: It gets cold if the vestibule door doesn't close because of the droplight windows and B: It's directly opposite the toilet. These reasons however are exactly why I like these seats.

No reservation flags on the seat or anything. The service was diverted between Taunton and Bristol so I had settled myself in for the journey (i.e. Laptop out, Mobile Phone Charger etc etc). When the train pulled into Bristol Temple Meads it reversed there but had to wait for nearly 30 minutes before it's booked departure.

Whilst I was seated someone boarded around 8 minutes before departure and said that he had reserved this particular seat and requested I move. (He was a 'suit') Ordinarily I would move. But there must have been at least 5 tables of 4 free in Coach A alone and a few more in Coach B.

So I refused (Sorry folks). Explained the seat wasn't marked as reserved, it was a priority seat and there wasn't exactly any shortage of seats. Was told he would get the TM. Invited the suit to do so. TM came shortly after departure and I explained why I didn't particularly want to move. TM agreed with me and told the suit to go away and sit somewhere else. Suit was not happy...

Oh, I read every post on this forum, young trout ...  ;)


... and that is no way for you to refer to ladyfriendtrout!  :o :D ;D

I will actually catch an earlier train so that I can travel in relative comfort . On a 165/166 service I'm happy to sit in a window/isle seat but not the middle of a group of 3. I don't want to wake up realising I gave fallen asleep on their shoulder :)

But wheres the abstain option??? I might want to vote, but not using any of the choices provided. lol

Conversely, I can understand someone sitting in (my) reserved seat if there aren't (m)any seats available, if the train is (near) empty, why anyone would *choose* to sit an an obviously-reserved seat is beyond me - hence I *always* ask them to relocate in these circumstances. Sorry, but why sit there when there are plenty of *unreserved* seats is beyond me....and serves you right to having to move, frankly.


Edited to fix quotes - bobm

Indeed. And then there is the minor point that your Advance ticket isn't valid if you don't sit in your reserved seat...

::)

What I was getting at is if a seat is NOT marked as reserved and mid journey someone tries to eject you from the seat as per my case above.

If I see a seat is reserved I'm not going to sit in it! If I did for whatever reason I would expect to have to move and would do so.

I may have a good eye for pedancy and detail but I'm not a mind reader for knowing which seats are reserved but not marked as such... ::) :-[

Maybe I'm being naive. But if the seat is not marked as reserved and someone asks you to move mid journey when there are plenty of available seats (I'm suggesting like 90% of the carriage for First Class) that to me just seems far too precious and defies common sense!

Really?  That is news to me.  After all my pious comments about fare-dodgers it looks like I have been travelling for years without a valid ticket!

Best one I ever had was someone trying to evict me from a seat in coach F.  He was adamant I was in his seat so I asked to see his ticket - which he refused as I was not an "authorised person".  Fair enough.  Luckily the train manager was nearby and she looked at it.  "Yes sir, that F means your seat is facing.  You are in coach H."

I then went back to eating my fillet steak.....  ;D

Maybe that person wasn't the first to find it confusing.  See NRE website (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46581.aspx):



NRE website (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46546.aspx) says:


Other members may be able to quote chapter and verse from the Codex Ferrovia...

Glad I'm not the only one then...  :D

I've been aware of this and usually sit in the designated seat.   However, when it turns out to be at a table of 4 already occupied by Mum, Dad and child ... with the rest of the carriage quiet ...

Because the HSTs can end up the wrong way round on occasions?...

Should the day ever come when I am asked to sit in the reserved seat shown on the reservation, I will gladly do so. These days I usually travel on SWT, no seat reservations with Advance tickets, and East Coast where you choose your seat so this is rarely an issue for me. I really would like FGW to introduce the 'choose your seat' facility now. They use the same booking interface as East Coast so why not?

OK ... many thanks for your inputs; 62 people took part in the poll.

87% of you would sit next to someone (in a pair of seats) but only 46.5% would sit in the middle of a group of three seats.

93.5% of you would ask someone to move their bag / luggage so that you could sit down, but only 11.5% of you would ask someone to move their under-five child so you could sit.

38.5% of you would wait of have waited for a later (or taken an earlier, perhaps) train in order to get a seat or a more comfortable journey, and 61.5% of you would (in some circumstances) choose to stand even if seats were available

---

I'm not surprised at the adverse reaction to the middle seat of a group of three, and the results do help explain why some of the TransWilts services are reported "passengers standing" and yet the passenger count is slightly under the number of seats on the train; a useful understanding point.

I hadn't expected such a high proportion willing to ask people to move their bags, nor the dramatic difference between the people who will say "please move that bag" and "please move that child".

On that last point, a bag is inanimate and can go on the floor, in a rack or on one's lap.

An under five can be very animate, and sitting next to one who has to now sit on their parent or guardian's lap is unlikely to lead to a peaceful journey. Can't really put 'em in a luggage rack either.

On the other hand, I understand some teenagers make a point of travelling in the luggage rack - it's apparently some sort of 'youff statement' ...  ::)

The luggage rack is also popular with commuters.  Considerably more comfortable than the floor.

Certainly the case on some buses, where I have been known to sit on the luggage rack rather than sit down next to somebody. Other buses though the bar of the rack is so uncomfortable I have had to sit on the floor once or twice, also on trams/trains where there are no luggage racks that are suitable for sitting on.