Great Western Coffee Shop

The 142 units "will not be used West of Newton Abbot" has been promised and written on this forum, but one has turned up in Cornwall. Because of sharp corners, they're not supposed to work down there, and many people aren't too happy with the quality of ride compared to the trains they replaced in the South West peninsula. 

Can I offer an alternative use for such a unit?

06:00 Exeter - Yeovil - Westbury - Swindon (arr 08:30)
08:45 Swindon - Westbury - Salisbury (arr 10:00)
10:15 Salisbury - Swindon (arr 11:30)
11:45 Swindon - Salisbury (arr 13:00)
13:15 Salisbury - Swindon (arr 14:30)
14:45 Swindon - Salisbury (arr 16:00)
16:15 Salisbury - Swindon (arr 17:30)
17:45 Swindon - Westbury - Yeovil - Exeter (arr 20:15)

Not sure of the pathing etc ... I know it would need to be changed somewhat in certain places; I do know that it's clear of the other passenger service on the TransWilts single line section from Chippenham to Trowbridge since the only remaining trains on that under the current timetable are out of the way in the morning BEFORE this schedule makes its first run, or don't run until AFTER it is out of the way!

A promise that one would provide a service North East of Trowbridge - if kept - would be most welcome, and give it a few months to bed in you would have a busy service.

Note the good Swindon commuter provision, the building up (with the 06:18 and 18:45 services off Swindon, 07:45 and 20:20 arrivals back there  remaining) of a sensible TransWilts service, and the ability to reroute some of the Malvern to Warminster services to Frome to provide the more frequent service that town justifies. 

You simply can't send it via the WoE, not only is is at capacity at most parts of the days, but FGW have no business there!

Yeah, I agree that there are capacity issues (but it is going "with the main flow" at both extremes of the day), but I thought that the sleeper and 125s went that way when there was engineering work going on from Exeter to Taunton and it keeps FGW's business running at those times  :D

I guess I consider the customer passenger too much. Via Yeovil, the service would give a daily train for a practical day in Swindon from Yeovil(41000), Axminster (6000)  and Honiton(11000)

Via Taunton .... the new service would provide a direct link from Exeter and Taunton (county town of Somerset) to Trowbridge (county town on Wiltshire) - I suspect that's not such a big market though.

I would allox a 158 on that diagram though, as Exeter - Swindon via Salisbury is a treck ;)

So perhaps SPM - Bristol - Westbury - Transwilts - Bristol - SPM would be more sensible with the use of a 142.

There's nothing official to say that 142/143's can't work in Cornwall!

I thought the quote (and forgive me if I dont get it exactly right) was "Network Rail would have kittens" ?

We've had a thread on Axminster line before  - and didn't we work out it wasn't viable?

Network rail wouldn't let the 142s go beyond Warminster towards Salisbury .

And none of the traincrews are trained on them either .

At the moment!

143619 did its fair share of workings last year. Scratched most of the Devon lines aswell, so to speak  ;)

Any photos taken of these workings?

Our resident 'spotter' (sorry Jim - I will stop now) has some: http://jimsphotoallery.fotopic.net/c1093423_13.html

That was the year before my friend!

I didn't have a great Cam at the time - but yes - I was on it!

Not good shots:


Eggesford: http://jimsphotoallery.fotopic.net/p34439386.html

Topsham: http://jimsphotoallery.fotopic.net/p34439388.html

Exmouth: http://jimsphotoallery.fotopic.net/p34439390.html

Destination: http://jimsphotoallery.fotopic.net/p34439393.html

Thanks for that.

No worries, your resident "spotter" has been of use!

Hi, Zippy ... welcome to the forum!  Your words at the moment could be prophetic  ;D

I have been told "can't be done" about making any improvements at all on the TransWilts service, and had it explained to me the reasons why there would not be any improvement.  But then with a closer look at the case, a closer look at options rather than a knee-jerked "no" without the full facts, and some options have come to light - things are sounding much more positive now.  The cynics may suggest that there's still no chance and the population in these parts is having its "expectations managed" and perhaps there is indeed an element of that.  But I thinks there's also a lot of genuine people who are woking to make that appropriate service happen.

So, Jim, I appreciate the "doesn't look practical" answer and I'll go so far as "haven't yet found a viable solution".  But that doesn't mean there isn't one out there.

Network Rail Southern are a lot more Organised than Network Rail Great Western, NR Southern WON'T Let ANGLE GRINDERS (142s) on their lines.

Could point out that NR Southern enforce Safety Issues better than NR GW.

Got that in writing? has a 143 ever made it to Southampton? Jim? ;)

They aren't allowed as they can somehow touch the 3 rd and go ZAPP

142s aren't that bad really, just could do with a refurb!

Nope, sadly. If it did go, I would think twice before doing it!

With repect to Vacman and others who seem to think 142's are alright for Cornwall.

Do you know what a VMFL is (or was)?

Traveling around on 142's on the Devon Braches and it may seem that things are ok, however sound waves travel in straight lines, audible engine and track noise inside a Carriage is only a fraction of the sound heard by persons standing trackside.

Indeed even with all the windows open on a 142 the majority of sound heard inside is reflected sound.

What sounds like a gentle Squeal inside a 142 as it passes over points sounds like someones murdering pigs, the whole sty full to track workers.

Noise indicates track damage and wheel damage, I remember seeing Iron Fillings on the sleepers on bends in Cornwall when 142 were last around, not dull rusty ones but bright new fillings indicating that everywheel was acting like an Angle Grinder.

I remember that a Brand New wheel set on one 142 lasted less than 1500 miles (think it managed 1150 miles) before being worn down to Scrapping size when working in Cornwall.

Worked out what VMFL is yet?

In a last desperate bid to save face after the Fanfare launch of Skippers (142's) BR fitted VMFL* but this just cause bigger problems with other rolling stock as grease got everywhere causing SDAP's to occur to other trains.

*VFML Vehicle Mounted Flange Lubricaters.

Keep 142 East of Totnes!

Do you really have that much spare time on your hands to find petty little reasons to complain about 142's? Get another job,  I hear a little known train company called First Great Western need some more train crew!

With respect I would say a Unit needing NEW Wheel Sets after less than ONE WEEKS work is hardly Petty.

It takes an empty HST a minimum 1hour 20minutes to cover the 80 miles from Pymouth to Penzance (non stop).
Why so long?

The LOW line speed, why a LOW line speed, the Sharp bends in Cornwall, (and as a by the way, branch line bends are even worse).

When the Railway where built, many on low budgets followed River Valley's, like in Wales with easement's made to the sharper bends.

In Cornwall Rivers flow North or South (in Very General terms) to the Coast whilst the Main Line Cuts though East to West hence there are some very winding parts to the Main Line.

Something People also forgot about Fixed Wheel stock Like 142s, is that being on Single Axles they have a much greater chance of Flange mounting Rail Head than bogie stock, and whilst the 2nd axle of a Bogie is very likely to rerail the other Axle before problems get worse that doesn't happen on railbuses.

The Victorians did away with 4 wheel passenger stock about 1855 (well stopped building it), foolish to bring it back, now had the 142 been 6 wheelers it would be different.

PS The Cardiff Valleys must have shallower bends than Cornwall as VMFL are not required on the South Wales fleet.

The Fal branch would be fine for 142/143's along with the St Ives, where do you think these trains have been for the last 20 years? the moon? (probably the best place for them admittedly), no, they've strangely enough being working trains all across the north of England. no we don't want these units down here BUT if it means more trains and more capacity then i'm up for it! Oh, as for smokey working for FGW?? He wouldn't last 5 minutes in a passenger facing role!

When did Plymouth become part of Cornwall? Or is Plymouth simply too special for these delightful rust buckets?

Might surprise Vacman that I've worked in a Customer Facing Role for many years without trouble, the only trouble was when I went to the assitance of a young Lady having problems with a drunk boyfriend who was to free with his punches, and as the Lady Backed up her boyfriend later, I ended up in Jail, only thing as other witnesses backed me up I was totally discharged.

And as for 142, 143, 144, they should never have been built, and whilst FGW are using 142's then I hope they do try to keep then from operating West from Newton Abbot because Track damage Will occur on the Devon Main Line to PLymouth.
Last time I looked 142 were banned from Looe and Gunnislake, able to reach Bere Alston.

Plymouth has always been considered part of Cornwall, Railway wise, remember before the Joint Devon and Cornwall Railcard, Plymouth was in both Devons and Cornwall's Railcard areas. Bit like holding Joint Nationality Passports from 2 Countrys.

You want to look at the sectional appendix, 14x unit's aren't banned from any part of Cornwall, they are restricted to a max of 15mph between Bere Alston and Gunni.

I was commenting on you complaining about the noise being reflected inwards than anything else

If the 14xs weren't built many lines in this country would have had to close. 14xs are cheap and saved many rural lines!

Might not have written that very well, but trains are a lot noiser Trackside than inside the Vehicle even with the Windows open.

If the 14xs weren't built many lines in this country would have had to close. 14xs are cheap and saved many rural lines!
[/quote]

Might have to disagree about some of that.

By the time Class14xs were built closing Passenger Railway lines had become something of a political Hot Potato, the 14xs would have cost very little more if built with a shared Bogie in the centre like Many Tram systems have.

The additional Railware on some lines will wipe out the savings over the operation of the service by a 153.

BR's cost saving on Single lines such as Between Truro and St Austell didn't make the projected savings,
1st train failures cause massive more train delays than on Double Track and that costs big money.
2nd Railware on Single lines was expected to be double, nope, watch an engineer filing metal first you file 1 way then the other, Railware was more like 20 times that expected

Might have to disagree about some of that.

By the time Class14xs were built closing Passenger Railway lines had become something of a political Hot Potato, the 14xs would have cost very little more if built with a shared Bogie in the centre like Many Tram systems have.

The additional Railware on some lines will wipe out the savings over the operation of the service by a 153.

BR's cost saving on Single lines such as Between Truro and St Austell didn't make the projected savings,
1st train failures cause massive more train delays than on Double Track and that costs big money.
2nd Railware on Single lines was expected to be double, nope, watch an engineer filing metal first you file 1 way then the other, Railware was more like 20 times that expected
[/quote]Whatever our personal opininons of 14x unit's we all know that they weren't the best unit's ever built, but, they are far from un-successful, so far they have performed relatively reliably in the North of England and the Valleys for nearly quarter of a century, and are set to carry on for a while yet! they are basic, rough and noisy amongst many faults and BR should have spent the little extra and built a load more 150's and 156's at the time, but BR are wonderful though if you listen to most people these days?? Since their introduction on the "Devon Metro" services it appears that the amount of cancellations due to train faults has gone down, well it certainly hasn't gone up. In a perfect world the 142's wouldn't have been built BUT THIS AINT A PERFECT WORLD SMOKEY!

Sorry to be a bit of an anorak, but Plymouth was historically a county borough - that is, outside either Devon or Cornwall.  Alright, I'll shut up now.  :-[

Thanks for the History lesson, any more little tit-bits like that Chris?

It could still be considered to be, politically, as like Torbay it is independant from Devon Country Council.

No, that's it from the anorak me!  ;)