Great Western Coffee Shop

It's come to my attention (though I don't fully understand how / why) that it can be cheaper to buy a return ticket for a journey and then change it ("excess it up") if you want to come back via a different route or overrun on your return journey.

Example ... Bradford-on-Avon to Swindon - 9.90 return via Melksham (07:22 B-o-A to 08:18 SWI).   However, I miss the train I had intended to take on my return (the 15:14 gets me to B-o-A at 16:22), and decide to go via Bath Spa, which has a return fare of 18.10, rather than wait for the 17:36. 

What extra do I pay?   
To whom?   
How is it calculated?

An FAQ style answer on excessing would be really useful, I suspect.  Do I have a volunteer to write one?

Not a FAQ, but the attached document may help. Somewhat dated (September 2010), but I don't believe that the rules have changed. It is the guidance for what Excess to charge when there was no opportunity to buy before boarding, but the same principles apply when buying from a staffed station.

Another excellent resource is RailUK Forums Fares & Ticketing Guide (http://railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=153). Section 4 deals with Excess Fares.

Regarding a 'Change of Route' in one direction of a return journey, you pay half the difference between the fare held and the appropriate fare, valid at the time you wish to travel, for the alternate route journey being undertaken. In your case that excess should be (^14.30-^9.90)/2, which is an additional ^2.20 to pay.

Your example has an original ticket which is an Anytime Day Return (via Melksham), however, as you wish to return via the alternate route at an Off Peak time, the appropriate fare to excess to is the Off Peak Day Return (Any Permitted). With a change of route excess you don't have to keep to the same ticket type, and in some cases that isn't even possible.

I regularly travel from Shirehampton to London with an Off Peak Day Return (via Warminster/Salisbury) and excess the return portion to allow travel home from Paddington. The excess I pay is dependent on when I wish to leave Paddington. As there are no Day Return fares on the Any Permitted route, I can choose whether to excess to the Super Off Peak Return, Off Peak Return, or Anytime Return, paying half the difference. A bonus of this excess is that, once excessed, the return portion becomes valid for a month.

Presumably that's before boarding for the return leg?


OK ... thanks.   It seems odd that the cheapest way to travel is to purchase one ticket and then change part of it, with all the hassle involved.   Would it even be possible to end up with a negative excess sometimes?

P.S.  I probably won't be encouraging everyone to start using this mechanism!

I've got a similar problem this weekend. I need to go from Worcester to London on Sunday, returning on Monday. On Sunday the train turns into a bus between Oxford and Didcot, and I'm minded to travel by way of Birmingham and Euston (or Marylebone) instead.

The Off-peak return via Birmingham is ^51.30. Via Evesham it is ^49.50. Time restrictions aren't an issue.

If I go out via Birmingham and come back via Evesham, what do I need to buy?

The cheapest way of doing it is to buy a return from Worcester-London route Evesham and a change of route excess to route Birmingham for your outward portion. I think those fares are out of date by the way, the current fares are ^51 route Evesham and ^52.90 route Birmingham. So the excess should cost 95p, half the difference between the two.

You can't (in theory) end up with a negative Excess as, in most cases, the Any Permitted fare will be valid for the cheaper via station x route already, meaning no Excess is required.

And yes, if facilities exist it's best to get the 'Change of Route' Excess prior to boarding on the leg that is to be changed. For some Excess types this a requirement, not a request. However, a 'Change of Route' Excess can be purchased on board without penalty. They are a right afforded by the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.


Whereas I would always encourage people to do so. As I said, changing one's route, in one direction only if that is the most convenient, is allowed by the NRCoC. It's a positive bit of the ticketing rules, and to not suggest its use leaves people paying more than is necessary for the tickets for the journeys they wish to undertake. 'Change of Route' specific to the TransWilts, with its new via Melksham fares, offers up journey flexibility to take the alternate route via Bath when TransWilts service times are not suitable, as highlighted in the example in the OP.

Why pay for the Any Permitted when there is a mechanism in place (not a loophole) to allow flexibility of route?

My thanks to both of you.

You are of course quite right. I have an old copy of the Avantix fares software here. Sorry.

Meanwhile, Worcester - London doesn't have an 'Any Permitted' fare. We have variants for
    via Birmingham
    London Midland only
    via Evesham
    via Evesham or Stroud

The most expensive on that list is effectively the Any Permitted fare. However, if the more expensive routed ticket is via a specific station, rather than Any Permitted and a 'Change of Route' is required, then the Excess procedure still needs to be gone through. A 'zero fare' Excess ticket printed with the new route would be the result. 

The route London Midland only ticket brings up a point worth mentioning. It is not possible to excess a ticket route TOC Only such as London Midland only to another route, for example Any Permitted.

Although it technically isn't possible, many staff will do the excess anyway.  I've had them done at many Southern and SWT stations in the past.

It isn't advisable to try and get such an excess on board though, as you would otherwise be permitted to do so is obtaining a change of route excess.

It can also be used to travel long, either on the outward or return, on a line of route. Can end in a zero excess, rather than paying a single fare.

For example, starting at Warwick going to Oxford, but returning to Warwick Parkway. Excessing the return to Parkway produces a zero excess, rather than paying a single from Warwick to W/Parkway. The returns from both Warwick stations are the same. Can save you money if you remember!

Be careful as some guards do not sell excesses much and may mistakenly overcharge you/ sell you the wrong excess.

It took me months (and several letters to HQ) to get a refund from Virgin Trains. (Thanks to people on this forum for helping!  :) )

If you are properly informed & know what excess you need, but won't be sold it - personally, I refuse to pay & appeal any penalty fare. Never once paid yet.

I ought to have documented my experiences of this journey.

On Sunday February 2 we travelled from Worcester to London via Birmingham. Via Birmingham so as to avoid a road replacement service between Oxford and Didcot. There was a fair queue at Foregate St and I chickened out of SS's scheme of buying a via-Evesham ticket and immediately excessing it via Birmingham. So I bought via-Birmingham tickets instead.

Came back on Mon Feb 3. Very helpful person in the Paddington ticket office did the necessary. Very quick. Zero fare excess, so the railways are ahead.

Tickets were inspected on the 17:22 from Paddington, but very cursorily. The TM didn't clock the extra bits at all.

I occasionally buy a First Off Peak Return Westbury - Newbury. On the return Journey I ask the TM for an excess to Frome which is Zero. I've had this done a number of times without issue. Some TMs however don't like issuing Zero Excess tickets as it can cause someone in the hierarchy to get upset (Or so I'm told). Usually however it is issued.

On the occasions it hasn't been I've changed trains at Westbury to Frome and explained the problem to the Guard on the Frome train. Showing a screenshot of brfares for both Westbury - Newbury and Frome - Newbury solves any potential problem. I have only ever had to do that once (Same day I was declined an excess actually) and was told the same as on the Newbury - Westbury train. Buy the excess before travelling. This particular case however I started my journey at Newbury when the ticket office was closed as it was at Westbury.

On a lighter note a guard joked with me that I should have used easement 700391 to buy my excess at the interchange station ;D

---

There is also a trick I am led to believe that allows you to buy an Off Peak Day Return from say Bruton - Castle Cary and then get the outward only portion extended to Exeter St Davids. I'm told this trick saves alot of money and can be particularly useful for First Class tickets where an FCR/FSR doesn't exist (First Off Peak [Day] Return)

And I should have said thank you to Southern Stag for the post that suggested this - Thank you.

Avantix (mobile ticket machines) record zero fares and as such zero excess are recorded as zero fares.

There was a problem back in the day of sportis, of guards overriding the fares to make them zero, however this was never recorded on the end of shift stats, thus free ticket and no comeback.
A full explanation has to be recorded for every zero fare and if you have too many of them regardless of explanation you will get called in to have a word with your manager. Zero excesses at the booking office are recorded slightly differently.

At least this is what ive been told.



Easement 700391
Customers travelling from Newbury via Bedwyn may double back via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

Thanks for the explanation, SDS.  I thought I'd missed out on a hilarious joke  :)