Great Western Coffee Shop

With no advance warning, the NRG instructions now includeThis is, IMO, a major change as many routes that are valid in the guides are not shown online.

This also means that ATOC are free to change the routeing of any ticket at any time without publishing changes in a documented form.

I'm guessing they've implemented this rule to make it easy for routes to be checked.

That amendment cannot be enforced without the NRCoC also stating that a route allowed by the Routeing Guide must be crossed checked with a journey planner.

ATOC are seriously trampling over the rights of passengers and I predict there will be some incidences of major conflict between passengers and staff.

I want to see some evidence of consultation between ATOC and Passenger Focus and ATOC and the DfT. I suspect however there has been none - both bodies being incredibly supine when it comes to protecting passengers from the worst excesses of TOC pricing managers and their cabal, ATOC.

There are also changes to the maps and permitted routes.

Some other "loopholes" have also been closed, e.g. the London to Birmingham via. High Wycombe ticket being valid via. Loughborough and Nottingham.

Closing loopholes is fine when they are patently wrong. That's part of the game for routeing exploiters like me. It's a bit like whack-a-mole though. Another will pop up somewhere else.  :P

However, closing long standing Permitted Routes, in a fit of pique after being spanked in court, is just childish -  TOC/ATOC saying, "It's our ball and were going home."

Therefore, if application of the rules in the routeing guide indicates that a route is permitted, any failure of the Journey Planner to show the route as valid is, by definition, a fault within the JP's implementation of the rules.  ::)

I assume these changes have to have an effective from date. What about people who have already bought tickets for future travel?

The changes are effective immediately, i.e. this morning some routes were valid, this evening they aren't.

As for tickets purchased already, members on other websites (RailUK Forums) are saying that you entered into a contract on the previous edition, so that is what applies.  I have no legal training so cannot comment.

I completely agree with that. This ridiculous fake new rule assumes that every rail passenger is going to have access to a computer or similar device capable of connecting to the Internet to check the JP... :o :D :-\ ::)


I have no legal training either, But I would also agree with that. My personal understanding is the contract cannot be changed unilaterally. So either the previous terms and conditions should remain in place for tickets purchased before 09/10/2013 or the TOC should provide you with a full refund with no fees applied for renegading on their part of the deal...!

*edited to add*

Of course, there are also instances when the JP brings up possible routes/journeys that are almost certainly wrong... The via Elgin "Bug" was almost certainly one of them that would not be permitted in the routing guide.

Poor Grahame is going to have much work in trying to explain fares to his Melksham audience. I've just noticed that Melksham to Taunton via Trowbridge and Bristol isn't valid, but Chippenham to Taunton via Melksham Trowbridge and Bristol is.  ??? ??? ???

I have a promotion and marketing meeting tomorrow;  I would suspect that any / all general publicity will provide main-stream advise on ticketing, with just a small footnote section along the lines of

<sub>"do you know that you're allowed to buy a ticket for a longer journey than you make [in most cases].  An example of when you might do this is is you're making a return trip but starting from / coming back to a different station.   For example, if you start at Westbury in the morning and travel to Swindon, but go back to Dilton Marsh in the evening, you can buy a Dilton Marsh to Swindon return which will be cheaper than buying two singles.   Occasionally, buying a ticket for a longer journey than you'll actually be making in both directions can work out cheaper"

and

"You are usually allowed to break your journey on return tickets, and again that can save you money on getting multiple tickets.   You can also travel on multiple tickets for separate parts of a journey - if you have a London to Didcot ticket, you can buy a Didcot to Melksham ticket before you leave London - the booking clerk will be happy to sell it to you - and you don't even have to get off the train at Didcot, but you must travel on one that calls there.   Occasionally, buying tickets in parts can actually work out cheaper."

With a "please check validity and routes before you make journeys using these facilities, as the rail industry  requires you to have correct tickets.  If in doubt, ask.   You may also like to consult our passenger forum at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop where helpful and knowledgeable individuals will explain the rules to the best of their ability"</sub>

All in small print, you will note.    Best thing is to encourage fair regular fares, and many of the TransWilts fares are very fair - indeed bargains!

There is now a "tool" on the National Rail Enquires website, located here (http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/planjourney/search) which is headed "Your ticket summary".  Apart from showing an image of a pre-2007 train ticket (one where the time is printed instead of the validity field, a roundel is present and the former BR region is printed), it is supposed to show you the validity times, group stations and valid routes for any ticket.

Only problem..... it hasn't actually been coded yet ::)

An update: another new edition of the National Routeing Guide has been issued on 23/12/2013.

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide/

My emphasis in bold.

So you find the routeing guide allows the journey. But the journey planner says no. Why have the routeing guide in the first place then eh?!?!

Yet more changes at ATOC.  The Routeing Guide maps are no longer available in a handy downloadable PDF, but now served through the Google Maps API with rather ambiguous connections in many places.

http://data.atoc.org/routeing-guide

::)

I'm not terribly sure how you can connect at Melksham (see attachment) ... perhaps in preparation for the day when the East - West Link to Weymouth semi-fast train overtakes the Swindon to Bristol via Bradford-on-Avon commuter service every hour?

I am not sure it means that - Kemble is also shown as an interchange

I wonder if this has anything to do with people printing the maps? Printing from a PDF is usually straight forward for 1 specific page. Google Maps API is a nightmare. Also a right sod to open on a poor internet connection.

I've noticed a few maps have changed or been split. My loophole that allowed Paddington - Oxford via Bristol has gone; the map which allowed it has been split into two >:(

Easement 70004 has gone (Perhaps only have myself to blame for that one) However the ScotRail Easement for Doubleback at Inverness does remain ;D

Also looks like the Easement allowing tickets to Brentwood via Shenfield for interchange only has gone... If GreaterAnglia think I am going to sit on a Class 313 from London Liverpool Street - Brentwood with my track history they've got another thing coming! :-X :-\ :-[

Boy someone at ATOC has been busy.

The FRPP/The Manual is now internal only on pre-approved IPs (previously if you knew the login you could get in).
NRE now has fare restrictions on URLs
www.nationalrail.co.uk/9D for example or www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/SSR_9D.pdf (these will be printed on new tickets)
Now the NRG has been made harder for pax to use (against) the TOCs. Curious though is the Greenford - Stations Byond Hayes easement via pad still there? Surprised the RDG-PAD season tkt holders haven't caught onto this one as a RDG-AML season is a lot cheaper then RDG-PAD and it's still valid via pad.

Reading to Hanwell is cheaper still. Also valid via Paddington.

I couldn't remember if that had been deleted 'amended' or not.

Apologies. It looks like the Brentwood easement is still in the Routeing Guide. I was Spelling Shenfield wrong on the search tool ::) :-X :-\

Amended my previous post accordingly