Great Western Coffee Shop

ERTMS only works in metric.....

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2013/10/01-end-of-the-line-for.html

Poor old Yardley Wood station - it was nice knowing you. Somehow 09144ley Wood Station doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

All aboard for Mile End.  ::)

Cruacha(I)n anyone

ETRMS is not the only driving force behind this.  It is becoming increasingly more difficult in engineering terms to work in imperial units modern GPS surveying and measuring equipment work in metric; materials, components etc are supplied / manufactured in metric dimensions, weights and volumes

There are now whole generations of engineers that were educated only in metric, I was trained in both and worked with a mix now if I say to an engineer or tradesman I want something 6 11/16" by 100 by 21/32" they go  ??? ??? ???

My current project we refer to "chainage" but in actual fact it is meters.

Picky of me to point it out, but I've noticed an increasing tendency towards using the US spelling of 'metre' - which I find odd given that metric units are less-widely used there. I know I should learn to live with this kind of thing, but it sticks in my craw; also it is to my mind useful to keep the distinction between the unit of measurement (the metre) and the measuring device (the meter). While I'm on the subject, does anyone else find it irritating that people pronounce 'kilometre' to rhyme with 'thermometer' rather than follow the pattern of 'milimetre' and 'centimetre'? Again, it sounds like a device for measuring 'kiloness' rather than a multiple of a metre.

Just me then  :)

At least the railways didn't repeat the daft mistake that was introduced on the roads with the (otherwise excellent) Warboys signage, whereby 'm' is used to mean 'miles' - how are they going to get round that one when they finally bite the bullet?

I know I'm generally old and increasingly curmudgeonly anyway, but I for one will only start using metric instead of imperial measurements at such time as our leaders start showing some leadership and the national media follows suit.

And in particular, when the weight of royal babies starts being announced in kilogrammes I'll know the game is lost for once and for all.

With apologies for referencing the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2374332/Kate-Middletons-Royal-baby-boy-heaviest-future-king-100-years.html

Saundersthirtypointfoureightcentimetres is a bit of a mouthful.

Will all those stations with -ton in their name have to change to -tonne?

No.

I find it helpful to know that a foot is pretty close to a light-nanosecond though.

If we're truly going decimal, does Sleights become Sltens?

I have a dim recollection that when our currency went decimal (15 Feb 71; 21 Feb for buses!) the plan was to complete metrication by 1974. We seem to have slightly overshot that target!

It'd be interesting to know what percentage (or should it be fraction?) of people wish to see the current mess of partial metrication projected ad infinitum, rather than pressing on to complete what is surely an inevitable process. I appreciate that there are some issues that would require thought (for example, some counties have retained cast iron 'heritage' signposts with distances in miles) but none of this should be insurmountable. As a first step, introducing 'M' instead of 'm' as the abbreviation for 'mile' on road signs would surely make sense.

I see metrication as another example of how the rail industry is shaking off it's old-fashioned image. Good to see!

Definitely WITH you on the first, but kilo-metre? You serious? Sorry, but it rhymes with thermometer.

I recognise I'm probably on the losing side of this argument (if indeed it is an argument!), but the non-idiomatic pronunciation follows millimetre and centimetre by putting equal stress on all syllables - so more or less 'killametre'. I've noticed that people who insist on the idiomatic US-style pronunciation seem to want to avoid the obvious pronunciation at all costs, coming out with weird alternatives like 'keelometre'. Strikes me as wilful  :)

I agree with you Red Squirrel! Too many American influenced spellings! One of my pet hates as it were! Apologies your quote above not highlighted! I did something wrongly while writing the reply. I am not good with technology!



Moderator note: Fixed that for you trainbuff! bignosemac

Personally, I never understood the reasoning behind the introduction of a decimal coinage which included a half penny ...  :P ::) :o

Ah the halfpenny was very useful. I could got to the tobacconist and get my dad's cigarettes for 54 and a half pence and then charge him an extra halfpenny for getting them!  For a long time he thought they cost 55p.

Imperial is miles better.

The change is never going to happen, it is part of British culture and language. Even young people who have been educated in metric state their hight in feet and their weight in stone. Why would they use metric? No-one would know what they are on about!

This is only happening as part of the EU superstate. High Speed One should have been laid out in miles from the start to stop any of this nonsense spreading from Europe.

If EMRTS can only cope with metres then so be it, stick convert speeds to mph and put stickers over!

The mixture of metric and imperial at St Pancras is a mess and dangerous.

I am glad, as an engineer, that I never had to do engineering calculations in imperial units.

I am also glad I never had to work out 17.5% VAT on ^ s d.

As for the stone.  I know my weight in both measures and the medical profession quote it in kg.  I suspect it will change with time.  I also am quite happy talking in metres or feet and inches, but then when I started work I had to read the drawings in metric convert the units in my head and tell the 60 year old kerb layer in inches. 

As for the mile - I think you are correct - the change would be very difficult. 

But just as industry changed to metric long before the general public I see no reason why railways should not change.  As you say both units at St Pancras are dangerous. If we do not change you only move the danger point somewhere else.

My 7 year old nephew didn't have a clue what I was talking about when I said I was x stone in weight. He knew his weight and height in metric units only. That's all he's been taught thus far in school. I believe that imperial isn't actively taught at any age any more, except for the anachronisms of the pint and the mile.

Having watched a Driver's Eve View video last night of Eurostar from Brussels-Midi to London St Pancras I can say there is no mixture of imperial or metric. It's metric all the way, buffer stop to buffer stop.

As for SouthEastern's Javelins, yes there are both imperial and metric speeds used, but I see no issue with this. Drivers are trained to deal with the difference through their route and traction knowledge. Speed boards are black on white for mph and white on black for km/h. Javelins have full overspeed protection on HS1 via the TVM (Transmission Voie-Machine - track to train communication) system and for classic lines TPWS is fitted. Even if a driver were to mistake a mph sign for km/h when on classic lines he'd be going slower than permitted anyway.

Interestingly, a few minutes ago, I tried a similar (unscientific / unrehearsed) test on my 17-year-old son: when asked his height, he replied in feet and inches - while offering his view that 'metric was much more logical'!  ;) :D ;D

No-one?  Not even all those who have been educated in metric units?  I fear you are merely talking about my (our?) generation.  I remember my grandparents being in denial over decimalisation of UK currency and my parents fighting centigrade (as then known).  We will go the way of all flesh and in due time the stone and the yard will become as quaint as the perch the ducat is today.

Meanwhile, in the same way as I can buy my petrol in litres and measure consumption in miles per gallon, we will live with split personalities over measurement.  The one thing I want to be sure of when I am on a train is that those who are maintaining and operating the equipment are highly educated in whatever measurements they choose to use so I am safely delivered to my destination.

Indeed - you wouldn't want to escape disaster by a hairs-breadth!  :o ::) ;D

In my experience women still prefer their cloth measurements in inches - particularly when the centimetre equivalent reaches three figures!!

Ah, it's all coming back to me ...

A "new pound" of ten shillings was considered, and looked more likely at one stage, so it was rather a surprise that Halsbury recommended keeping the pound. That meant a half new penny was needed to counter the "decimalisation causes price hikes" headlines. Of course massive inflation happened very soon for other reasons, so the "half p" only had a short life.

I thought it was obvious that making 1 shilling=10p was a good idea, as most transactions were for sums of that size - shillings and pence rather than pounds. Exchange markets ought to be able to cope with a factor of two change surely? - but Halsbury thought not. I remember a rather surreal TV interview where Jim Callaghan managed to go through an example (obviously carefully learned) showing "how simple it was" to convert some odd amount (say 17/4) into new pence. In fact, the easiest way to do the conversion is to a 10s unit and then halve the answer. (Try it - you can do 1.73 just by looking at it, then convert to 86.5p).