Great Western Coffee Shop

A bit fed up! 28.08.13 I bought a ticket at Frome 15 minutes before the scheduled arrival of the 1015 train,  the platform was well full, what happens? Two coaches again. The train was already full and standing. I actually forced my way on to the train, there was barely any room, poor girl with crutches I helped on and had to wedge against me at the door. People left behind on platform. Very few people buy a ticket at Frome before boarding, ticket machine doesn't accept cash (even though it says it does! )  Absolutely no attempt to collect the fares on the train, so presumably the management would never know how horrendous the journey was.

Welcome to the forum, Alan

Fare collection comes after safety and after operation in the role of the train manager.  Usually there is time for fare collection but at times of unusual passenger flows (i.e. many more people than usual) on trains that stop at lots of intermediate stations (such as Frome towards Bristol) and are full and standing, the whole train won't be covered.

It worries me too - but a little less than it used to.   Firstly, the conductor reports passenger counts at various stages on the journey for each service, and my understanding is that's going to be a well-educated estimate if he / she's not able to get through and actually count.   Secondly, with barriers in Bath and Bristol, people headed there will be able to / required to catch up on ticket purchase before they leave the station.  And thirdly - there is a point where some income leakage is cheaper than collecting ... I've seen it and discussed it before in relation to substitute bus operations late at night, where providing an extra member of staff to collect a few pounds from one or two local travellers (long distance people already having tickets) would cost more than the revenue raised, even before you allow for "cap and collar"; you have a different scenario but ... nice day, last week of school holidays, perhaps an event on that FGW weren't aware of such as Frome Town v Freshford Village in the cricket cup at Freshford ...

As I say , it worries me - especially if it's something along the lines of "you can ALWAYS avoid paying from X to Y on the 10:xx" ... but not quite as much as it used to.   I would like to see other / better fare collection systems in place to reduce travel being taken for free, but adding staff in case of occasional peak (?) or even for one busy train per day probably isn't best.   On line tickets (no need to collect) and things like that should allow the very limited time train managers have to pick up the few remaining people who need to buy on train, and irregular and pseudo random checks should ensure that most people don't 'chance' it even if there tickets are checked only occasionally.  But, yes, it feels we're quite a way from there at the moment and many of us (sorry, I'm one) resent seeing freeloaders on a train and think "did I really need to pay".  The answer to the last rhetorical question is a resounding "yes" just in case anyone who come to this thread many wonder.

Long answer ... hopefully helping rather than drowning discussion.  Big topic.   Welcome, Alan

Thank you very much for the welcome and VERY  comprehensive reply!

Don.t forget also, that additional stock doesn.t grow on trees and 2 Coaches are the norm on Weymouths beyond Westbury except weekends and School Holidays.

Perhaps with all this genetic engineering we could soon get to a stage where additional stock does grow on trees. 

.. I'll get my coat.

And I'll get my goat...

... and the ticket vending machines at Nailsea & Backwell also claim to accept payment by cash, but they don't, and haven't done for years now ...  ::)

Apart from that: Welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, Alan!  :)

Nor Yatton, the last time I tried.

Hi Alan and may I offer my welcome to the forum too.

I am a regular user of Frome station. Your comments about the 10:15 intrigue me slightly. This is the first Off Peak northbound service from Frome of the day. But for it to be as busy as you suggest. It seems they may have used a different set for that working on that particular day. Wasn't this also the week of Reading Festival? You may have just been unfortunate on this particular day as there have been alot of festivals in this area recently.

Your comments about the ticket machine however I do agree with. Personally I won't use it, as in the past it has double charged me for a First Anytime Return from Frome - Shrewsbury (one of the only tickets I buy that is priced in the hundreds). It can also be very picky with certain types of cards and as you say does not accept cash.

Frome and Trowbridge had their ticket machines (TVM) removed around 2008 - 2009 due to vandalism in an attempt to get at the cash inside. At a cost of ^30,000 or there abouts per machine. The loss of revenue was smaller than constantly repairing the TVMs. (As I understand anyway). Frome
got it's machine back in the last 18 months. Trowbridge is still waiting for their 2 to be returned!

When I make local journeys they are nearly always to Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads or Taunton. These stations are all manned with a gateline so at some point, be it on the Frome - Bath Spa train, a connecting train or at the gateline at the end of the journey. I will have paid the fare due.

I also think it's wise to point out that some of these passengers will have season tickets, staff passes, company warrants etc. I also regularly travel to Southend-on-Sea and nearly always have a ticket in advance of travel.

I'm going to finish there as I'm typing on a smartphone and need to get off my train in about 10 minutes. However I hope that gives you some further insight into Frome station.

Any questions feel free to ask away :-)

Thanks for your input,  you're right on the stock, two coach SWT unit. When the ticket machine first reappeared at Frome it did accept cash, then stopped. My issue is that there is frequently a queue at said machine and people in front of you spend ages trying to find the ticket they want,  get to the 'buy' bit and find that it won't accept cash.  The sign on the machine still says 'cash or card'.

Ah the 2 Coach Class 158 South West Trains unit? Presumably First Class was empty?

This is the SWT unit, hired in because FGW don't have anything spare. This is not going to get better until stock begins to be cascaded as new stuff comes into operation elsewhere.

Like thetrout, I am also a regular user of Frome station, and agree that it is rare for the 1015 to be quite so overcrowded, but it's always busy. In the summer you do get quite a lot of longer distance holiday traffic returning from Weymouth, interchanging at Bristol or Bath. When added to the usual local traffic and day trippers, it can get extremely busy. I remember on one occasion the 1015 being a single coach train, and FGW ran a bus service to mop up the passengers who could not yet on the train.

Regarding ticket purchase at Frome, the staffed ticket office is normally open at this time of day. However, when the regular member of staff is off, it is not uncommon for the ticket office to be left unstaffed all day (I don't know if this was the case on the day in question). Furthermore the self-service ticket machine is currently hidden behind scaffolding during a major refurbishment of Frome station, so it would not surprise me if more passengers than usual are boarding the train at Frome without tickets.

Yes, must have been a one off,  I've been on the same train this morning since Dorchester, nearly at Frome now,  plenty of spare seats!

Reason I posted that is the hired in South West Trains Class 158 Unit has it's First Class declassified. So you *can* actually sit in there with a Standard Class ticket.

Both myself and my sister went to Bristol last Saturday week and ended up on the 20:07 Bath Spa - Frome train. We decided to sit in the First Class section so she could charge her iPhone. I knew it was declassified however a lot of people clearly didn't/don't. No announcements were made saying "If you're standing you can sit in the blue seats"

The issue however that causes is when you take the 16:05ish (from memory?) from Bath Spa - London Waterloo. That is a South West Trains service and First Class is not declassified!

I agree it would seem most likely a one off. As I said, I believe that was Reading Festival Week so it wouldn't surprise me at all.

I caught the 1015 Frome to Bath yesterday (06/12/2013) which was full and standing, and the usual carriage added at Westbury wasn't there, so pretty busy as far as Bath. I followed two girls to the barrier where staff were shouting "We don't need to see your tickets, the barriers are open", outside the station door 1st girl: "We could have done that for free."  2nd girl: "We did." 1st girl: "Oh yes!" !

The likelihood is that they'll have had to buy a ticket to get back onto the platforms later that day however....

Collection of fares on HoW services does seem VERY hit and miss it has to be said. I travelled Frome - Weymouth earlier this year on the 17:47 and could not buy a ticket before boarding. Arriving at Weymouth still no ticket checks = no fare paid... Weymouth ticket office being closed I couldn't then pay my fare there either. I couldn't then make up I boarded a London Waterloo service from there and got to Waterloo where the barriers were wide open and no ticket checks either. Infact the Catering Trolley was more prominent on that service! I had a First Advance for that service though... Still not brilliant either way!

There are trains from Frome which are pretty much a very likely free ride if you wanted to play the dubious Fare Evasion Game (I won't name them!) But I purchase my ticket at an interchanging station as normally I connect into a different train. Or I already have my ticket having purchased ahead of time. Staff at Bath Spa are normally happy to sell a ticket without any question (Only a very small number of times has there been a slight problem) Bristol can be a bit more problematic and depends on who is working the barriers that day. Some staff are great and a very, very small number obstructively unhelpful!


Unfortunately if I was a gambling man... I wouldn't bet on that at all :-X :-\ ::)

You were right not to bet on that! I happened to travel back at the same time as the said ladies and witnessed how they got away with it (even at BTH barrier) I shall not elaborate just in case any of their friends are looking for advice.

Posting personally here, rather than as an admin: I found it rather amusing that 'girl 1' was apparently completely oblivious to the fact that she'd just travelled on the train for free ...  ::) :o ;D