Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: 4gone on August 31, 2013, 23:29:36



Title: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: 4gone on August 31, 2013, 23:29:36
For the last 2 years or more I have been plagued almost every night with the sound of train engines that start and run from approximately when I go to bed to about an hour before I wake up - 11pm - 6am. They are FGW trains that the company has decided to lay up at Worcester Shrub Hill sidings directly parallel with and 50 metres from my sash bedroom window.
I thought it might be a bit selfish of me to explain and complain about the lost sleep and diminished health that their trains were causing as my flat is a residential island and affects few others. So my secondary approach was the cost and pollution that may be caused although I don't know what impact there might be.
There are shore lines available but maybe not enough for the normal 3 trains - I can't get a straight answer from anyone at FGW. The last response was from an Amie Coppins who is the environment manager - can't imagine what her job entails -
 "I am investigating the issue with our operational teams and I assure you I will provide an update as soon as I can. As we are now in the peak holiday period this may take some time, I appreciate you are inconvenienced by the noise but I would ask for your patience while I reach a conclusion."
That was on the 4th July - on the 4th August I asked for an update and she has ignored me.
My tack included questions about running costs etc. but she seems to have ignored that.
That has been typical of their support response.
I'm sure there are people out there that know more about things like the cost of engines running all night or what it is when...there's electrical clicks, then what sounds like a compressor starts for 30 - 40 seconds followed by a powerful explosive sound of air being released - this latter noise is either in place of or additional to the engine running.
And the engine running can be the someone has got the foot half way down on the pedal.
Sorry to bore you all.
Cheers


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: trainer on August 31, 2013, 23:44:08
Every sympathy 4gone.  Hope it gets sorted. 

Welcome to the forum.


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: johoare on September 01, 2013, 00:06:28
Welcome to the Forum 4gone.. Hopefully someone can answer your query for you as I don't know the answer.. But I am sure there are people who do know :-)


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: devon_metro on September 01, 2013, 00:14:53
Unless i'm imagining things, this has been raised on the forum before.

If I remember correctly the shore supply isn't suitable/safe/operational/whatever and the engines need to be kept running due to the lack of power.


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: a-driver on September 01, 2013, 00:33:24
Each HST has to go through and train preparation before it can enter service.  I don't know FGW's procedures but a full preparation takes 55 minutes.  This is thorough check of all safety systems and requires all the engines to be running. If there are 3 sets you are obviously looking at least 3 hours of engine noise.

Someone can probably advise on the status of the shore supply equipment at Worcester to confirm wether they are serviceable or not.  However, this equipment is more than likely supplied and maintained by Network Rail.
Even when a set is plugged into the shore supply some components of the HST will make noises.
However, if they are not serviceable one engine will have to be left running. 
Again, I don't know about crewing arrangements but there is the possibility that the driver and guard may sleep on the train overnight and as such the engine is left running to provide power (and heat in the winter)

Engines in the power cars of FGW HSTs are, and I might be wrong, leased.  Basically FGW pay for every hour the engine is running.  I doubt very much wether they would allow them to be running all night without good reason.

Where abouts is your property in relation to the train engines?  What I'm getting at is the HST has an engine at each end.  Lets call them A & B engines.  If they currently leave A engine running and switch off B would it make any difference to you if they reversed that?


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: grahame on September 01, 2013, 06:53:04
There has indeed been quite a bit of earlier discussion on this - but quite old now - at places like
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3072.msg44404#msg44404

Welcome to the forum, both 4gone with your heartfelt question and a-driver with that thorough background as to the running of HST engines overnight and prior to service, and some of the whys and wherefores.


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: a-driver on September 01, 2013, 09:26:01
The thing to remember is that there are currently restrictions regarding engine noise and pollution at London Paddington station, Reading Depot, Oxford Carriage Sdgs and Bedwyn Reverse Sdg on the Thames Valley side alone.  It make take time as there could be other parties involved (like Network Rail in regards to shore supplies) but they do investigate complaints and try to come up with a workable solution. 


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: 4gone on September 01, 2013, 11:16:23
Each HST has to go through and train preparation before it can enter service.  I don't know FGW's procedures but a full preparation takes 55 minutes.  This is thorough check of all safety systems and requires all the engines to be running. If there are 3 sets you are obviously looking at least 3 hours of engine noise.

Someone can probably advise on the status of the shore supply equipment at Worcester to confirm wether they are serviceable or not.  However, this equipment is more than likely supplied and maintained by Network Rail.
Even when a set is plugged into the shore supply some components of the HST will make noises.
However, if they are not serviceable one engine will have to be left running. 
Again, I don't know about crewing arrangements but there is the possibility that the driver and guard may sleep on the train overnight and as such the engine is left running to provide power (and heat in the winter)

Engines in the power cars of FGW HSTs are, and I might be wrong, leased.  Basically FGW pay for every hour the engine is running.  I doubt very much wether they would allow them to be running all night without good reason.

Where abouts is your property in relation to the train engines?  What I'm getting at is the HST has an engine at each end.  Lets call them A & B engines.  If they currently leave A engine running and switch off B would it make any difference to you if they reversed that?
Driver, Many thanks for your informative response and thanks to trainer, johare, grahame also.
First, I wasn't aware of the previous discussion so thanks grahame for the link. I had walked over to the station in my slippers a couple of years ago and had a lovely chat with a very sympathetic "station manager" although I don't think they're called that any more. He said that the trains parked (sidled?) further up the line until residents complained and it looks like they used to park down the line upsetting others. Now they park directly behind Shrub Hill which seeming only affects 2 flats (2 people) and we are literally 50 metres away at the end of the converted goods yard (?) which is listed. So my natural skepticism led me to think that no-one will do anything about 1 person in rented accommodation complaining about a bit of noise. That's why I felt there is a broader issue here anyway, the environmental one but clearly they are not interested in that either.

Yes, "driver" it would make a difference if the noise was coming from the back end of the nearest train and the front end of the 2 further trains - thanks again for your explanation - quite a bit  I should imagine.
The drivers don't sleep on the trains. When I've noticed the cleaners take about 40 minutes to do the nearest train, into which I can see quite easily and it's been around midnight.

I must quote the following from Mark Webber, Customer Relations Senior Officer (obviously got bored with the sedentary pace of trains)...
"...major initiative focusing on how to reduce fuel consumption particularly through aspects such as engine idling at stations and in sidings, I have logged your problem you have been having and have forwarded your comments on to our Environment Manager for her to take the appropriate action" which was obviously to do nothing. Well that formed part of a letter to me dated 9th September 2011.
They seem to think it's a problem that I have only - I think it's a problem they and the paying public have got too.


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: 4gone on September 01, 2013, 11:30:46
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r316/4jahead/map2_zpsbf7e3c75.jpg)


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: Super Guard on September 01, 2013, 12:23:55
I'm sure there are people out there that know more about things like the cost of engines running all night or what it is when...there's electrical clicks, then what sounds like a compressor starts for 30 - 40 seconds followed by a powerful explosive sound of air being released - this latter noise is either in place of or additional to the engine running.
And the engine running can be the someone has got the foot half way down on the pedal.

There was an issue at Exeter New Yard where a HST is stabled over-night on shore supply.  A request went out that the compressors were switched off while it was on the supply over night because of noise complaints.  I don't think the "electrical clicks" can be stopped, but there is a precedent there with regards to the compressor.

I cannot remember off-hand what the shore supply situation is for Worcester SH.

Edited:  Worcester SH shore-supply is still unavailable for use.


Title: Re: Cost Saving Idea For FGW - Don't Leave Engines Running All & Every Night
Post by: ChrisB on September 01, 2013, 15:54:55
Take it via Environmental Services at your local council.

They can slap cease notices on the operators which usually forces them to spend money on noise-reducing baffle fences between them & the local houses.

Chiltern caused the same problem at Stourbridge & the end result has been as stated above.



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net