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Heard this rumour a few months ago, but the replacement of the 15:51 PAD-WOS HST service with an Adelante on Fridays over high the summer has gone so well that from next week it will be a Class 180 every day of the week.  When I say 'so well' I really mean terribly badly with both crew and passengers exasperated by a badly overcrowded train with people standing between London and Moreton-In-Marsh.

An attempt to reduce the overcrowding has been made by removing the call at Slough and making it 'pick up only' at Reading, but that will still mean passengers crammed on from Oxford in conditions only Maidenhead commuters ever have to put up with  ;)

To mitigate removing the call at Slough on the 15:51 (which, incidentally becomes 15:52), there is an additional Paddington to Maidenhead service at 15:40 calling at just Slough and Maidenhead, though don't get too excited about that folks as it runs on the 'relief line' and takes 31 minutes to get to Slough and 42 minutes to get to Maidenhead, so it's no quicker than the stopping trains.

To provide this Adelante for the 15:52, the 14:50 PAD-OXF, 17:06 OXF-PAD and 19:18 PAD-OXF change from an Adelante to a 3-Car Turbo, which probably isn't the end of the world as that's the first set of trains to be Turbotised when a Class 180 isn't available anyway, but that'll be one less 'comfortable' train for Maidenhead commuters to choose from on the way home.

Other changes include some removal of calls at Culham in the evening - three trains in total after 8:30pm.  And, a bit of good news, the 17:36 Paddington to Bourne End gets strengthened from three to four cars, but that's about the extent of the good news I'm afraid.

The changes are apparently designed to improve performance and take account of essential maintenance on Turbos and HSTs.

Another pretty poor show from FGW in my opinion.  It would be nice if these changes were publicised properly on the website, but there's no specific mention of what are mid-timetable alterations that I can see and though most of the downloadable timetables from the site have been altered to commence from next week many of the changes have been missed (the 15:51 PAD-WOS still calls at Slough according to the re-issued timetable).  Though that might of course be a mistake in the staff briefing document and it will still call at Slough - who knows!

I predict more confused and annoyed passengers in what is another pretty poor showing from FGW in my opinion.

Ouch.

Have the 180's reliability improved much over recent months, II ? Otherwise the HST that's now replaced with the 180, will effectively be replaced with a 165/166 more often than not!

The one I usually see in the morning seems to have been consistently on time (well within reason) and available for the past few months, so I assume they have somewhat improved ?

hmmm - there's a poster appeared this week at BAN listing all the Thames Valley changes - I've been waiting for it to appear in my Customer Panel inbox so as to post it here.....

It's been pretty good of late (especially considering the hot weather) and some Turbo replacements have been due to a lack of trained staff rather than lack of a fit and healthy Class 180.  I imagine if they're short they'll put a 2-car on the diagram that works the 12:20 PAD-GMV, return, then the 'Halts' train - as currently happens on a Friday and are, as a result, packed to the rafters!

Hmm can't say they have been that great of late:

180102 keeps coming out of service at OOC.

180104 had a consistent cross feed faults last week.

180106 lost 10 litres of fuel whilst working 1W41 at Slough last week also.

With teething problems on 103 and 106 whilst in service.

On one hand it's a good idea to place a 180 on a service with abit more of a run ie not stopping Slough but as shown above the reliability is nowhere near the required level needed. Unlike Hull Trains fleet which have improved by 500% after a lot of money being spent on improvements.

It's no fun working on a packed out 180 with nowhere for pax to go and the vestibules as hot as Death Valley at times. Witnessing the 15:51 on a Friday is hard enough.

Further more what will happen when not if the 180s fail what will replace it ? As the turbos are from what I'm aware going for a full C6 refurbishment from next month so surely there will be a shortage of them?

Granted, they've not been perfect - but better than they ever were when we first had them!  A 'cross feed' fault or was it just cross feeding?  Not much of an issue if it's the latter!


I agree, I wish they'd take a look at the vestibule air-con as, unlike in the saloon's, they're virtually all either blowing out warm or ambient air.  XC even manage to maintain they're vestibule air-con on the Voyagers to a much better level and we know how half-arsed they are about everything!  And as you say there's no shortage of people having to stand in them daily on the busier services.


They always seem to be able to rustle up a Turbo from somewhere...  ;)

There's much to be critical of about CrossCountry, but I don't think fleet maintenance can be fairly described as 'half-arsed'. CrossCountry were the Modern Railways 'Golden Spanner' award winner for an InterCity fleet in December 2012. They regularly come out at or near the top for the best Moving Annual Average Miles Per Casualty (MAA MPC) figures for their Class 220/221s.

[Quote From II]

[I agree, I wish they'd take a look at the vestibule air-con as, unlike in the saloon's, they're virtually all either blowing out warm or ambient air.  XC even manage to maintain they're vestibule air-con on the Voyagers to a much better level.]
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They need to for all the pax going to the loo to vomit. :-X

And referring to the cross feed fault it resulted in 180104 running on 2 and abit engines on the 14th August and terminated at Oxf whilst working 1W12 to GMV.

Industryinsider, i have read what you put on this original post, and i have a comment to make.
The 1540 will call at Slough, however theres no indication of a Maidenhead stop on that service. Also maybe its a good idea to run both the 1540 and 1551 (both calling at Slough) as it would balance passenger loadings better rather than withdrawing one service and operating only the 1540 which may be only a 2 car which might be full to bursting when departing from London Paddington. Just a thought i had :)

Yes, perhaps I was being a little harsh, although their maintenance is by Bombadier on XC's behalf - presumably using a maintenance contract that XC inherited when they inherited the unit lease from Virgin?  And they should be up at the top of those charts given the number of 'modern' InterCity fleets there are out there to compete with!  Either way, the fleet is in a good condition considering the hammering they get each day by far passengers per carriage than they should be accommodating.

The 15:40 is 'booked' for a 3-car Class 166 - which then returns empty to Paddington to form part of the 17:45 stopper to Reading. 

Not a bad idea to stop them both, but given the timings (the 15:40 departs 12 minutes earlier and would arrive about 5 minutes later), I don't think many would opt for the Turbo offering.

Ah sorry i thought due to lack of rolling stock, that only 2 car turbos were avaliable, however thankyou for correcting that mistake ;).

Now i agree with you people will opt for the 1551, however if it were me i would opt for the 1540 as it will have more space despite the increased journey time. Chance for last minute work to be completed within that time :)

It's early enough in the day to get it back to Paddington for it's next diagram.  Even more mileage for the Turbo fleet, but there's no shortage of spare units available at Old Oak until the evening peak properly starts at 5pm.

Are they not all being "maintained" though.. the spare units that is?
That's the official FGW response to any "off peak short formed overcrowded trains question"  ::) ::)

Maintenance and cleaning, yes, but there is still some off-peak scope as demonstrated by this example.  You can stretch the elastic only so far though and the Turbo fleet is being stretched further than ever before...

Sometimes the sets are on depot that in theory can be used, but the logistics involved in getting them on site isn't worth it - perhaps the unit can't be back to where it'd need to be to form its peak train that evening for example, or there are no spare drivers available to swap the sets around.  Sometimes there could probably could be more done to strengthen any off-peak short forms.  In this example a 'quick' trip to Maidenhead and back can obviously be fitted in.

All rather depressing. I did tweet FGW about this to see if it really was true. Their response there was "@charles_uk I have looked on our systems for the forseeable future and it looks like even into November it is scheduled to be HST's. Heather". Something tells me that is going to be a communication thing at their end and not good news.

Yesterday, I spoke to a passenger who regularly travels on the 1551 PAD-GMV, boarding at Oxford.  She said that, on Friday 23rd August it was "absolute hell".  The train arrived at Oxford absolutely full and although many alighted, a much larger number boarded - a number swelled by the 1421 Adelante from PAD having failed at Slough and its passengers having been taken as far as Oxford on a preceding terminating train. I can corroborate this story as I was at Reading at 1622 and saw the packed train enter the station.  With up to 100 waiting to board it, I decided to forego the experience and made a more leisurely journey home by the 1626 Turbo  and the 1715 from Didcot Parkway.

A similar situation was experienced on Friday 9th August when hundreds of passengers travelled on this train for the Wilderness Festival.

Personally, I have used this train about 20 times during the last 12 months.  Passenger numbers can vary wildly.  On some days, there are plenty of seats available, but on others, it is full and standing on departure from Oxford.  How, on busy days, FGW will be able to accommodate 400 to 450 passengers on a Class 180 remains to be seen!

Indeed. If only quick trips could happen, although someone will say, 'we cant operate that due to lack of capacity...'
We need to stop thinking like that and just run the train services wherever fgw can fit them in. If the freight trains block up capacity where else could they be sent via, rather than on the over stretched relief lines... just a food for thought  ;D

Oddly as it might seem, freight pays for paths too....

Yes i agree, however surely if the GWML relief lines are full to capacity, why can't the freight's be diverted somewhere else?

Several reasons, four I can immediately think of are:-

1. There may not be an alternative sensible route available (eg where would you divert the heavy aggregate trains from Merehead to Acton if they are not to go along the main line east of Reading).

2. Any practical alternative routes may be similarly congested, and may have adverse consequences for other passenger services. Even finding a path for a slower freight train across one busy junction can sometimes be difficult, when a sensible margin is allowed to avoid performance degradation to other services.

3. The alternative routes may not have clearances for the freight trains in question, e.g. the 9'6'' intermodal traffic from Southampton to the north currently uses the relief lines between Reading and Didcot. At first sight it could be rerouted via Melksham, but even if paths are available, the first service would bash many bridges on the way. Clearing the route will cost tens of millions. It might still be viable, but this would be on the wider strategic benefits it might bring.

4. The alternative routes are likely to be longer, thus costing the freight operators more. As they have contractual paths on the main line, why would they agree to this?

So, the work and cost involved to enhance a passenger service suddenly becomes very significant. There has to be a very compelling business case as to why it's the right thing to do, as opposed to "wouldn't it be nice if xyz station could have a better service".



 

I think we should be grateful there are four lines between London and Didcot - it is largely thanks to Brunel's broad gauge that we do!

Also - the alternatives are likely to be full too, especially in the peaks

Monday's 15:52 (sic) was very cosy when it left Oxford (and the air conditioning was less than convincing). I can't imagine it's going to be any more fun once the schools go back...

Does anyone know what the seating capacity of an 8 coach high density High Speed Train is and how that compares with a 5 coach 180? My guess is the seating capacity has been reduced by almost 50% but it would be interesting to know the exact numbers.

A High Density HST has about 395 Standard Class seats + 112 First Class.
An Adelante has 242 Standard Class seats + about 45 First Class.

Nearly a 40% decrease in seating then.

Thanks for that information.

A significant decrease considering standing on a high density HST beyond Oxford was not uncommon...

I think that this is called progress !

second day running this train has been late (today 40min late at Oxford due to unavailability of staff) and absolutely packed as it picks up people arriving for next train. In addition no aircon or even a breeze of air moving from the ceiling air ducts.

I travelled twice, yesterday, on the unit (180104) which formed the 1552 - to Worcester on the 0921 ex PAD in the morning and on the 1849 ex WOF back.  The aircon was working in the two coaches in which I travelled (E out and A back).  However, there was no aircon in coach C on Tuesday 3rd September when I happened to travel on it again.  Wasn't this the unit which had aircon problems, mentioned in last week's Channel 5 programme?

Certainly there was no evidence of any effective aircon in the vestibules of coaches D or E on any day this week.

As far as I am aware, the air conditioning does not extend to the vestibules in Class 180s.  They always appear to be unbearably hot in summer!

I've checked the recording of the programme and vehicle number 56904 is clearly visible, so yes it was 180104. Indeed I was on that train that evening (I appear in shot for a couple of seconds but I'll keep when that is to myself! ;)), the TM apologised more than once about the lack of a/c but I was standing in a vestibule anyway.

Yup, I was in coach C, no aircon or even blown warm air.

The air-con does include the vestibules, it's just not maintained very well/at all.  You can see the circular vents that should be blowing out cool air if you look at the ceiling - I think there's two of them per vestibule.  There is the odd one that works, but the vast majority blow out warm or even hot air.