Great Western Coffee Shop

The next meeting of the West Wiltshire Rail Users Group will be on Wednesday 25th September 2013 at Bridge House, Stallard Street, Trowbridge. Guest speaker will be Richard Harrington, Inspector of Rail Accidents, from the rail accident investigation branch of the Department for Transport.

Talk starts at 7.30pm, and coffee is served from 7pm. All are welcome to come along regardless of whether members of WWRUG or not. Bridge House is near Trowbridge railway station - at the top of the steps leading to the town centre.Further details, if required, from WWRUG chairman, Roger Newman on Trowbridge (01225) 762337.

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Edit by Graham I have split this thread off from the previous WWRUG event discussions {here} (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9680.0).

Not knowing the geography of Wiltshire's county town, is the start time at the venue "do-able" from a 19:20 arrival at Trowbridge station (assuming it is on time!).

Yes - the venue overlooks the station. Get off the southbound train, out the gate (not over the bridge) and turn sharp right. A footpath just off the platform along the edge of the car park goes up a flight of steps, and the venue is on your left.  Go in the side entrance that's beside that footpath - a member of the WWRUG will be on door duty as the front entrance will be shut.

At the risk of taking liberties with grahame's website presence, here is a link (http://www.transwilts.org.uk/tobridge.html) to a simple A B C pictorial guide for getting to Bridge House from Trowbridge Station (from a previous event).  ;)

Ah - I wondered where that picture had gone  ;)

Please pardon my almost infallible encyclopaedic memory of all things posted previously on the Coffee Shop forum!  :P :-[ ;D

Here's the official poster advertising the event [as an attachment]:

25th September 2013, Bridge House Trowbridge, All welcome.

21st November 2013 - 19:30, Civic Centre, Warminster

West Wilts Rail User Group welcomes Ian Mundy, Manager of First Great Western's Publicity Department.
Assuming that this is a typical WWRUG meeting, all will be welcome ... further details to follow in due course.

The West Wilts Rail User Group covers the stations in the five major town of West Wiltshire - Trowbridge, Melksham, Warminster, Bradford-on-Avon and Westbury, and also stations at Avoncliff and Dilton Marsh.  Meetings cycle between venues close to the stations in the major towns which are appropriately rail accessible (i.e. no meetings in Melksham at present) and they're always fascinating to attend.  You'll find the group's contact details within this thread; they have been reviewing their web presence (committee meeting was last week that considered this) and as an interim (?) measure, we're covering their events in this thread.

I'm simply giving this particular event a bit of a 'bump' on the forum here - it looks as though my shift pattern may very well allow me to attend, and I have every intention of doing so.

I certainly plan to be there - and I will make sure I sit in front of you Chris!  http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12821.msg139787#msg139787 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12821.msg139787#msg139787)

Stick a Brunel style stovepipe on as well, bobm. Get CfN back for the ribbing elsewhere on the forum.  ;D

I may be able to pop along as well - not sure yet whether I'm free next Weds. Should know after the weekend.

Would certainly like to hear some insight into the work of the RAIB.

I should be able to attend - would also mean a trip through Melksham as an added bonus! Will have to find out whether a Chippenham to Nailsea season ticket is valid via Trowbridge!

Ah: my vociferous colleague bignosemac will be able to help you with that query, John R.  :P ;) ;D

bignosemac is on the case.  ;)

A Nailsea & Backwell <-> Chippenham Season is only valid on Routeing Guide map: CE

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/Maps.pdf#page=13

From that map you can see that there is no link between Chippenham and Westbury, so with your Season you can't travel to Trowbridge via Melksham and then on home later via Bath Spa.

To get from Chippenham, via Melksham and Trowbridge, back onto your season ticket route you'll need a Chippenham to Bath Spa Off Peak Day Single at ^5.10. This additional ticket is valid on Routeing Guide map: MW

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/Maps.pdf#page=78

The rules say you can travel by any route between origin Routeing Point (Chippenham) and destination Routeing Point (Bath Spa) by tracing a route and not doubling back through any station. On Map MW you can see there is the direct link between Chippenham and Westbury. Going Chippenham-Trowbridge-Bath Spa is fine on this map with a Chippenham-Bath Spa ticket. You can trace the route and there is no doubling back.

Thank you BNM. It's rather curious that I can't use my season between Chippenham and Bath Spa to go via Trowbridge, but if I purchase a single from Chippenham to Bath Spa, I can then use it via Trowbridge.

And similarly, it's odd that the only ticket I can buy direct from Chippenham to Trowbridge is an Anytime single at 7.00, whereas I can buy a ticket to Bath that's valid via Trowbridge and costs 5.10.

I look forward to trying this next week. Maybe I should print out the details and relevant pages of the routing guide, just in case!

I've said it before. Rail tickets, their pricing and their routeings often defy logic. I'm sure a Chippenham to Bath Spa fare is only intended to be used on the direct route, but the routeing printed on the ticket is 'Any Permitted' and when that is the case then passengers are allowed, under the terms of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage Condition 13(iii) (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf#page=10), to consult the Routeing Guide to see what routes are permitted.

My experience of the conductors on the TransWilts service has been nothing but positive. I'm fairly confident you'll have no problem with the ticket. There's a good chance that I may make my way to Trowbridge next Weds on the same train, and I'll be returning to Bristol via the Avon Valley, so I'll be happy to back you up!

Fare structure on the Bath Spa / Chippenham / Trowbridge triangle owes much to changes some 40 years ago, when the Intercity 125 was being introduced, and the Chippenham to Trowbridge section only carried a single summer saturday service,  variously running Wolverhampton or Derby to Weymouth and back hauled, I suspect, by a class 35 Hymek on most occasions.  On top of that structure, fares were added in 1985 from what was at that time a newly reopened Melksham station, from where the highlighted destination was Swindon, to which there was a true peak service (it left Melksham some 45 minutes after the service does these days, and returned from Swindon over an hour earlier, making for a practical commute).

With that background, it's little wonder that anomalies are rife!

On occasions when the 06:41 Chippenham to Bath Spa has been cancelled, tickets have been accepted without question on the 06:29 departure, change at Trowbridge.

And today I discover another bit of rail ticket pricing that defies logic.

On all occasions when I've travelled over the Trans-Wilts in the past year I've been using a Rover/Ranger of one sort or another. For this meeting though I'll need a point-to-point ticket and the best option is a return to Melksham where I travel out via Chippenham, switch to the return portion after the Melksham stop, break my return journey at Trowbridge for the meeting, and then continue home later via the Avon Valley and Bath Spa. What origin do I need?

Well I'm going to be in Bristol late afternoon, so Bristol TM - Melksham Off Peak Day Return @ ^10.50 would fit the bill.

But wait, I do like to check for alternatives, just in case. So let's try a Severn Beach Line station as the origin instead. St Andrew's Road - Melksham Off Peak Day Return @ ^8.70.  :o ::)

So, for all those Off Peak Day Return trips to Bristol/Melksham and vice versa that are going to be possible after 8th December, a ticket to/from a Severn Beach Line station will be cheaper than one to/from Bristol TM. Worth remembering!

See you at Trowbridge.  I've got a Thames Rover and a Bedwyn to Trowbridge advance....

So will I - with a simple Anytime return from NLS to TRO at ^13.10.  ::) ;) ;D

Another good one is that. The Anytime Day Return (SDR) (Any Permitted) @ ^13.10 is cheaper than the, nominally, more restrictive Off Peak Day Return (via Bath Spa) @ ^13.60.  ::) And cheaper again than the SDR (via Bath Spa) @ ^16.40.  ::)

And don't forget, you can buy an Off Peak Day Return from NLS-MKM for ^10.60. Perfectly valid to Trowbridge to end short. Or do the same as me - Out via Chippenham and Melksham, straight onto return portion, break journey at Trowbridge and resume return later via Avon Valley.

Quite why there needs to be a via Bath Spa routeing on many flows from Bristol and surrounding areas to Wiltshire stations perplexes me. Particularly when, in this case the via Bath Spa fares are more expensive than the Any Permitted. The only thing via Bath Spa prevents is journeys via Bristol Parkway and Swindon to Melksham, Trowbridge and Westbury. This is already prevented by the Routeing Guide. Even Bristol Parkway to Melksham and Trowbridge requires a journey via Bath Spa, despite it potentially being quicker, and with only one change, to travel via Swindon.

An update on that particular meeting:

The guest speaker, Richard Harrington, of the Rail Accident Investigation Branch, was really excellent.  He gave us a detailed explanation of the work of the RAIB and invited questions from the audience as he spoke.  Many of the audience availed themselves of this invitation, and Richard dealt with each of them in detail, before returning almost seamlessly to his presentation.  The result was a lively and very educational evening, with a fascinating presentation that overran slightly - for all the best reasons!  My thanks to Richard Harrington himself, and to Roger Newman and the West Wiltshire Rail Users Group for arranging the event.

Several of us from this forum attended that meeting - me (obviously) as well as bobm, bignosemac and John R.

Which brings me to an interesting point. I met up with bignosemac at Bristol Temple Meads and we joined the (slightly delayed) 18:30 towards Chippenham. By Bath Spa, that delay had increased a bit, so I suggested that we opt for the local stopper to Trowbridge, rather than risk missing our connection at Chippenham for the via Melksham service we had planned to use.  Almost inevitably, the local stopper was also running a bit late, but no problem: we caught that, so at least we'd be sure of getting to Trowbridge, even if we might arrive at the venue a little late.

All was going well, I thought, until the conductor appeared at the end of the carriage for a ticket check, as we were trundling between Avoncliff and Bradford-on-Avon.  At that point, bignosemac handed me his rucksack and tried to disappear under his seat - only his ample girth rendering this somewhat difficult.  I, and several other passengers, watched his antics with some amusement, I have to say.

I warned Justin 'bignosemac' that I would publish that anecdote here, if only to give him the opportunity to explain himself.  :P ;) ;D

I WAS NOT hiding from the conductor, and the implication that I was is scurrilous. :o :P ;D

On seeing him, I reached into the back pocket of my trousers for my ticket wallet. I failed to get a decent grip of it and it slipped down the narrow gap at the side of my window seat. As we were sat in an airline row that backed onto a table of four it was very difficult to retrieve. Made doubly so because of the under seat equipment (possibly aircon). Trying to fish it out from my seated position proved impossible due to the narrow gap, although I did recover an empty cigarette pack and a couple of fluff covered fizzy cola bottle sweets.

Nothing for it but to ask CfN to stand up to give me some room to get right down on my belly and seek out the wallet. Initially I could see it but couldn't reach it. After some minor contortion I was able to retrieve it.

As to the meeting, I echo chris from nailsea words. A fascinating and enjoyable presentation. Richard Harrington was indeed seamless following comments and questions from the audience - more than one or two from me. I find this way of presentation much more inclusive than to deliver an entire lecture then have a Q&A at the end. By the end you may have forgotten what you wanted to ask.

Great to hear that people found the recent talk by Richard Harrington of RAIB interesting and informative, so here are details of the next WWRUG meeting coming up in November!

The next meeting of the West Wiltshire Rail Users Group will be on Thursday 21st November 2013 at Civic Centre, Sambourne Road, Warminster, BA12 8LB. Guest speaker will be Ian Mundy, Publications Manager for First Great Western.

Talk starts at 7.30pm, and coffee is served from 7pm. All are welcome to come along regardless of whether members of WWRUG or not. The Civic Centre is in the town centre, next to the car park of Morrisons supermarket. It is within walking distance of Warminster station - allow around 15 minutes.

Further details, if required, from WWRUG chairman, Roger Newman on Trowbridge (01225) 762337.

Dan Okey, FGW Regional Development Manager, speaks to the West Wilts Rail User Group on 22nd Jan 2014

Meeting scheduled for TROWBRIDGE.

With improved train service on the TransWits line in 2014, I've written to the chairman of the West Wilts Rail User Group asking them to spread their 2014 meetings around all five West Wilts towns - Bradford-on-Avon, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury and Warminster. I think that is their stated objective ... perhaps dickyc can confirm?

I've passed this question to the committee and can advise that Melksham is being considered as a venue for future meetings. With five west wilts towns and normally 4 meetings / year it's clearly not going to be possible to hold meetings in all the towns every year - but hopefully Melksham will see its share of meetings in the future. Suits me too, since I work in Melksham! As for future WWRUG meetings:

The next meeting of the West Wiltshire Rail Users Group will be on Wednesday 22nd January 2014 at Bridge House, Stallard Street, Trowbridge. Guest speaker will be Dan Okey, Regional Development Manager for First Great Western.

Talk starts at 7.30pm, and coffee is served from 7pm. All are welcome to come along regardless of whether members of WWRUG or not.

Further details, if required, from WWRUG chairman, Roger Newman on Trowbridge (01225) 762337.

Looking further ahead, the AGM is scheduled for Thursday 27th March 2014 and will be at the Swan hotel, Bradford-on-Avon. Guest speaker will be Catherine Phillips from the Heart of Wessex Rail Partnership.

Thank you for organising an excellent speaker in Warminster on Thursday.  A fascinating talk.

I have just received (in the post this morning) my December 2013 newsletter from the West Wiltshire Rail User's group, including in its six pages significant coverage of the recent improvements to services on the TransWilts, and to fares thereon.    It also includes
* a review of the November meeting at which Ian Mundy, Publications Manager, FGW, gave us a fascinating insite into posters, literature and timetables (via carriage labels)
* comment on overcrowding, delivery of diesel fuel for train use by road, changes in local BTP team
* Member's journeys to the South of France and Carnforth
* Signalling on the Severn Valley Railway
* And this advert for their next meeting.

Update, 30.12. 2013 - please see the West Wilts Rails User Group's website for the advert - via http://www.wwrug.org.uk

It's worth being a member of the group if you're in (or interested in) the West Wilts area; they have a track record of informing on and supporting existing services, and I'm very happy to see them doing so with such good coverage in this issue for the now-existing TransWits service. 

Out of interest, how does one join?  The website, as we have discussed before, points to this thread.

You can join by contacting the membership secretary, Rob Brown, on (01225) 864221 or for more information, contact the chairman, Roger Newman on (01225) 762337. All being well, the new website should be up and running in the New Year. Richard.

Bob, the new West Wilts Rail User Group web site ( http://www.wwrug.org.uk/ ) has now been activated and the contact information, meeting details, etc, are on there. 

We previously hosted the site for the group, but they have decided to move to a new setup rather than carry on with the old arrangement.  As seems inevitable, there are some technical issues with moving domains around and ownership transfer;  we're working together to get these resolved, but there may be one or two "funnies" / glitches in service while caches time out as we do so. Initial reports of issues on their new website should probably be made direct to the group, but I'll be very much ready and willing to help on anything that turns out to relate to the transfer away from our hosting

Those who attended the talk last year by Publications Manager Ian Mundy may like to know he has moved on and is currently "Interim Station Manager - South Devon Stations"  With the current problems there I wish him luck.

I am not sure if the change is permanent but currently Andy McRae has the title of Senior Publications Manager.

It's a temporary secondment, so he will be back.

TWCRP already have an excellent working relationship with Andy McRae, so no worries there.