Great Western Coffee Shop

It looks as if there are major works from Swindon to Kemble from 10th August meaning that there is one less HST stopping at Maidenhead from Paddington in the evening (one left out of two then) from 10th August until 1st September..

Does anyone know if the missing train (19.48 from Paddington) is going to be replaced with anything?

I've seen no information about this at Maidenhead.. I only know as someone told me..

Brilliant... ???

Doesn't look like it.

Excellent.. FGW know how to look after their passengers (not)

I guess that is why they are not communicating it to us then.. so it comes as a "nice" surprise  >:(

Do the people of Maidenhead who commute into London not have holidays or do none of them have them in August?

Perhaps the school holidays in Maidenhead are different to the rest of the country?

Or could it be that there will be fewer people wanting to travel between Paddington and Maidenhead at this time?

Not all of us and not 3 weeks all at the same time I guess? Does that happen in other towns then?  ::)

If it's hot in August.. And since I don't want to be fried to death.. the HSTs are my only option that makes it certain that I won't be for those three weeks if it turns out to be a little warm during that time

And no excuse for no communication anyway

Timetable leaflet for the three weeks at

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/~/media/PDF/Planned%20Changes/Timetable%20booklets/Full%20Swindon%20Kemble%20Engineering%20Leaflet%20-%20WEB.ashx

but there's no mention in there of what I'll describe as "associated" amendments.  I do also have details of changes which will effect the services between West Wilts (Warminster, Westbury, Trowbridge and Melksham) and Chippenham and Swindon, which I'll post as separate threads in the boards associated with those lines.

I would contend that major changes get longer-advanced publicity.   A returning Reading to Stroud commuter in late August will leave Reading at 17:12 and get to Stroud at 19:00, or if (s)he misses that have to wait for the 18:44 (Stroud 20:24).  As against a regular commute off the 17:12 getting in at 18:22, or a direct train at 18:18 getting in at 19:22.  This sort of stuff - a peak gap of an hour and a half, and home an hour later than normal - is out there already.

Less major changes get shorter publicity.  There's probably not the same need for people to know well ahead - perhaps so well ahead that some will forget / get confused - for the changes that won't drop people back / hold them up as long.   You may well find posters going up that include the changes - they're probably planned, probably not as prominent in that the change will be included in other engineering works lists.

It is the case that during the peak times in August there are noticeably less people on trains around where I live and although most do not have 3 weeks they stagger their holidays throughout the school holidays so the reduction is over a longer period. 

Its usually a shock when the holidays end and the trains are more crowded again!


Agreed

Awww - I am NOT happy about this. 

The 19.48 is not only the most pleasant journey out of Paddington all day, but is also the last fast train of the evening.  This will mean that I am stuffed on to some crappy stopping service with the windows sealed shut.

So what if less people use a service through summer - in case it isn't obvious commuters appreciate the slightly less awful conditions and don't want operators to artificially recreate the battery-hen conditions of the rest of the year by withdrawing services.

FGW make me so so so angry in so so so many ways.  Maybe they'd like me to get out and push?

Why not suggest to FGW a temporary extra stop at Maidenhead on the 19:45 to Plymouth or the 20:00 to Bristol?  The 19:50 to Banbury could even stop there, but that's only a 3-car Turbo so might not be the best solution!

Either way, this is just the sort of change of service that should be plastered all over Maidenhead station on posters.

It probably will be nearer the 10th....prob next week, I'd say.

Major works (redoubling the South Cotswolds) means some disruption, and whatever anyone says, August IS the quietest month for travel. Commuters know where their train goes, and those on here can't have missed us talking about these works. If you really needed more than 10 days notice, you could have put 2 and 2 together & checked the FGW website. That timetable has been around a while, showing thattrain missing.

I can say in all honesty that I was completely unaware.  And I'm someone who tries to keep up with things.  I would say with some authority that at 19.47 on 10th August there will be a lot of very very vexed passengers at Paddington so FGW need to up their game significantly.

As I said, it'll be quite unusual if posters don't materialise at Maidenhead prior to this change.

If they were already up, what changes would you have already arranged to make that couldn't be made in the next few days?

Why not take a customer-oriented approach ?  Rather than putting up posters advising of a service interruption, instead provide an alternative.

Like NickB, I fear there will be many passengers caught out.  Commuters don't necessarily know where their train is going (and over what route as most Worcester trains don't go via Swindon!) when they have, say, a dozen different train home possibilities every night many going to different destinations.  Unless I'm missing something, the replacement timetable on the website makes no mention of Maidenhead at all.  The website alterations summary makes no mention of Maidenhead and that specific train at all.  And finally, the online .pdf timetable for London to Maidenhead services makes no mention of changes to this train at all, or that services may be altered due to the works (as the London to Cheltenham timetable does).

For those reasons I think, at the very least, Maidenhead should be covered in posters now.  And serious considerations should be given to a special stop on the 19:45 or 20:00 departures instead as 'gpn01' has suggested would be the customer friendly approach.

So how on earth do they find out or check their platform at PAD every night? One looks up at the departure board for the time and destination (otherwise you might get on the slow to Oxford, say that leaves at the same time) - so I'm not a follower of your statement.

Or you listen for an announcement (but still have to check that it's going where you want at the speed you want, so however sub-consciously, do note the destination)

If you don't think that timetable is complete, how do you know that a stop isn't going to be put in? The poster when it arrives may well inform of such? And if it does - then all the info required is announced at once, which I suggest is the sensible way of doing this?

In the days before the internet, pax would have still known nowt about this at Maidenhead, and I would suggest that as long as it is all covered off in the poster when it goes up, that 10 days is ample notice.

Perhaps I'm just a simpleton, but if I'm travelling to Maidenhead I look for Maidenhead being the first stop.  I couldn't give a monkey's if the final destination is Reading, Oxford, Cheltenham or Penzance.

I suspect most people do that - but there are a few who look at the final destination... including someone I saw at Swindon on Monday who saw the train was going to London Paddington and so assumed it stopped at Reading, only to find as it was pulling out that it is the one train a day which runs fast to London....

Here's your answer:


And perhaps others look at the next fastest train boards at Paddington for 'Maidenhead'?  No mention of the eventual destination on those. 


Through searching the online timetables.  Had I not been prompted by Jo's post of yesterday though, I wouldn't have had a clue!

Guys at the end of the day one way or another you will get home!
For me it doesn't matter at all what train it is, as long as it's going in the right direction then i am happy.
However if people are really unhappy with the turbo's then why not run an Adelante FGW, then people may be happy!
After all 20 mins between Paddington and Maidenhead on a turbo isn't that bad surely :)

All stock is in use during the peaks, so no Adelante.

Is Maidenhead one of the destinations on the 'Next Fastest train to'? Not sure it is.

I still maintain that 10 days is sufficient notice though, regardless

If it actually took 20mins on a turbo, I might agree...   :D

haha :)

Chris B, after all Maidenhead isn't that important is it. Why does it need a screen for 'next fastest train' when fgw doesn't bother to supply one :). Might as well just guess the next fast train to Maidenhead, will be that nice shiny HST from that platform 9, and then lets go on a merry tour :).

That's exactly why I suggested pax look at the destination board for their train?....

This really is a non-discussion.

In the days pre-internet, no one would have heard yet about this. Posters generally go up around 10 days in advance which was considered fine in those days, so what's so different now?

It is holiday season in August, so the work can be considered to be done at the best time. It might not even be particularly hot by then, considering the vaguaries of the British Summer.

Chris, times have changed, i don't think pieces of poster will help, as most of the time especially at Maidenhead the information is hidden away. Best to send the information to people's email addresses or send it through the post. Also it's a waste and i thought Train operators where meant to go green?

Surprising.

There are usually at least 3 x HSTs running up and down all day between Paddington and Cheltenham, and in the peak too. And then there are 2 x 15x units running between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa too.  Does each of those 5 trains still have a diagram during the engineering period?   For the most part, I see an hourly Kemble to Gloucester shuttle which can take two trains, and London to Gloucester / Cheltenham offering which involves a change for the most part at Bristol Parkway onto CrossCountry services.  That will be using South Wales services from Paddington - so what will the HSTs be doing?  One or two may be reversing at Parkway in the peak for Cheltenham, but surely not all three?  If it was all three, then one would be on a 19:48 off Paddington

No Adelantes, I agree

During a normal peak, yes.

How many alight from that train generally? It's not in the peak, it's right at the end of the shoulder-peak. Then there's the holiday season too, for crew as well as pax. They may well have allowed extra staff to take time off during this work.

They may still be intending to run something?....why don't we wait & see?

OK.   And I do agree that some commuter services can be (and are) reduced in summer, such as the 08:16 arrival from Bristol into Paddington, which ceased to run on 5th July and resumes on 2nd September.

Not that it will have been factored into the planning for this blockade but I think there is a shortage of HST sets at the moment.  I was told one is out of traffic at Laira after being involved in the fatality in Cornwall on Monday night (that wasn't discovered until the following morning) and there do seem to have been a number of cancellations from Paddington in recent nights.  One yesterday was advertised four hours before it was due to leave so there must be some sort of problem.

Most nights of working the 1955 EXD-PAD, you will get a couple of refugees get on at Taunton, travelling to such places as Newbury, Kintbury and Theale.  The problem is they left London at 18:03 (Pad-Rdg-Tau---PZ) and not at 18:06 (stopper).  Some people are just on auto-pilot no matter how many screens or announcements are made.

Oh agreed. You can't account for them.....:-)

There are two different types of 'Next fastest train to' at Paddington.  One with longer distance destinations generally by the lower numbered platforms, and one with more local destinations generally by the higher numbered platforms.  Maidenhead appears on the latter, but not the former.

Even if it was 20 minutes it is definitely bad since a lot of them are SO hot and dangerous.. Which is why I prefer the HSTs and don't want one of the two we have currently potentially taken away in the middle of summer.

Well Jo if thats what it happens to be like, then maybe FGW really need to sought out the aircon on the Turbo's. I mean what really is wrong with fixing a problem that is simple.
I think that Adelante's and HST should run on more fast services, then the whole thing about travelling in comfort will be over, or so I think. At the end of the day if First Great Western cannot be bothered then why are they still continuing to run rail services? Only thing is will other operators be any better, probably not. Oh the joys of rail privatisation, i hear people say BRING BACK BRITISH RAIL, if only that ever will happen :)

That does presume that the problem is simple.


Yes more HST's and Adelantes would really be good on a many parts of the FGW network - not just Maidenhead. Do you know where there are that might be going spare?  Or are you expecting X Country, Grand Central, Hull Trains, Midland Mainline and East Coast to have spares that they don't need?  Basically we need more rolling stock across the board.

However, bear in mind the HST were not built for services that have frequent stops.  When they were introduced on GW in the 70's it was expected that they would have limited stops.  They are now working all stops west of Reading most of the time.


Yes lets bring back the British Rail whose policy was to cut services to drive away the passengers so they could save money by taking out capacity - a form of managed decline.

I've been asking them to sort out the air con for many years.. I'm not terribly hopeful...




Edited to fix quote. bignosemac

Nor i am Jo  :), guessing it's continue ignoring the issue of customers for now at least.

Ellendune
They have had a lot of time to fix the air con, and i know i am going to mention about Chiltern's method of how to fix air con's when they don't work, however why is it the case the ones on fgw continue to fail? Maybe after all the fuss, they need to take chilterns method and put it in to practise, with no excuses. It's no good to just continually leave it broken.

Lets be plain and simple about this, if fgw! didn't continually withdrawn HST's from the timetable between Paddington and Maidenhead then it wouldn't be a problem. If you say that fgw should get spare HST's from other companies then be realistic, of course we need more rolling stock across the country. Fine if it has to be turbo's fine, but the air con must be working so that people don't have problems breathing whilst in the hot conditions on the train.

And with British Rail, the times have changed, and i have no idea why you think the same actions would happen now as there did back in the day. Lets be franc, most if not all train operators need cash from the government, and it doesn't make sense to have separate little companies, when really everything should be absorbed into one company that does everything. Thats how good planning for rail services should work, and i am no rail geek :)

Euro bit off with your spelling, you know.

Well i am a little rusty with the spelling, but i am sure you know what i mean  ;)

But HST's were never designed for that kind of work.  So yes sort the turbos.


This has been discussed on another board.  Chiltern costed it into their bid and it is a franchise commitment. FGW did not so they do not have the money. I presume therefore it can be fixed, but at a price.

Says a lot about the people who let franchises doesn't it.


I agree that times have changed, but I am not sure that one big company would be any better.  It is the politicians who write the franchises or define that terms for the one big company that will determine that neither will work well.

I agree, that fgw should have planned in there franchise deal, to sort out any problems with their trains into the agreement, however i see where it is coming from its money!!!, all money!!. Government should be much stricter, but i have doubtful mind that they will ever take things more seriously. So people will continue to suffer OH WONDERFULL!!.

Isn't one of the problems with the air con system particularly on turbos the stop/start nature of the units. Many have their engines switched off between duties and during lenthly spells sat in sidings off peak. This surely reduces the effectiveness of the air con as it is initially working very hard trying to cool a train that may have been in the sun for x amount of hours!

On the subject of air con, they seem to manage in mainland Europe where temperatures are considerable higher for longer and aircon even manages efficiency on trams which are frequently stopping and have wide doors open to let in hot air at every stop.  However having been on a TGV along the southern coast of France in high summer when the aircon has failed, I can assure you that as soon as it was possible a move was made (reserved seat notwithstanding) to another coach.  Fortunately, we were going away from Paris so the train was generally emptying.  I sympathise if you put up with this daily.

I'm sure that's generally true, though it's not really fair to compare a turbo with a TGV - after all HSTs do pretty well. New French TERs are also pretty good, but older French rolling stock (Corail) has a much poorer record. The Corail carriages had reliability issues, and about 5 years ago SNCF compounded this by their rule that when a circuit breaker tripped the train crew couldn't reset it - they had to wait for an electrician to come out, often by by road if the train had failed ...

Of course any train will overheat if it loses overhead power, and TGVs have been evacuated in such cases. (Note that IEP isn't required to run cooling in that situation - but with its auxiliary diesel should be able to do so, at least if not trying to move.)

If you're a regular traveller on Chiltern, you'll also noticve that their aircon hasn't been up to much recently - either cooling like a fridge or not working at all - approx. 50% of the time.

And their silver trains appear to need to go away to have this fixed - so most are going around unfixed for weeks.

I got a reply from FGW. First they said they were sorry I wasn't happy with their previous reply which was quite interesting as it was their first reply to this particular e-mail  ::)

They said that the alternative when the 7.48pm isn't running is the 7.50pm and change at Slough.. This adds 20 minutes to what is a fast journey usually..

Does anyone know what type of train the 7.50 is I don't mind 20 minutes delay if it's not an oven turbo?

Ha Ha they've got the reference number of the e-mail I have outstanding with them about a really hot and dangerous train (and I was unhappy with their initial reply on that one) but they replied to the one about the 7.48pm. FGW customer service never fail to amaze me... Just summoning up the will to live/reply..

According to the latest FGW timetable if my eye's read correctly the 1950 to Banbury is a lovely turbo full of catering, nice staff and nice air conditioning? If only that were true :)

What FGW should do is if they are really incapable of running a HST is run a Adelante on the 1950 calling also at Maidenhead with no question's asked by anybody please.

Why bother questioning FGW when they don't reply or if they do they give you a nonsense email back.
If they did that to me I would write a whole lot of nonsense back to them, just to let them know you are wasting my time.
And that is said in the nicest possible way. Get your act together FGW!

A turbo.. Oh deep joy.. Thanks FGW.. totally excelled themselves.

That aside I did start my reply to their e-mail with "I think you're a bit confused".. I guess it'll be another three weeks or so before they reply by which time it'll be too late.. They really need to change their "we aim to reply within 5  days" as well on the automated reply.. Might as well make it more realistic.. ::)

Indeed. Joys of commuting to london these days, i for one avoid it :)

Heres an idea, if they want to only reply within 5 days or longer of receiving the email, then every day they are late, they should pay compensation for all the hassle. However whether that works is a other story..

If FGW don't pay out for running trains late they aren't going to pay out for replying to an email late  ;D

From my own experience you get a different level of reply "quality" depending on whether you write in or email them.  Writing in seems to get given to the over-12's to reply to, whereas emails are left to the pre-school kids.  It doesn't necessarily reduce the patronising nature of the reply, but they do seeeeeem to be taken sliiiightly more seriously.  As its freepost I'm happy to cough for the envelope.

PS.  Still no signs at all at Maidenhead station announcing the change, nor at Paddington.  But I was delighted to hear on the 19.06 service that there are engineering works starting in February.  It didn't specify what year.

Aah yes I was going to mention the total lack of communication still.. Maybe on Monday which is two weeks before (I say hopefully)..

The only good thing about the whole thing (for me) is that it will only affect me for the first week as I've got two weeks off commencing August 19th.. Three weeks of being roasted alive in a turbo might just have finished me off  ;D

Apparently, Jo, you are not alone in being at risk of roasting alive: see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-23550182  :o

Enjoy your holiday - going anywhere cool, by any chance?  ;)

Somewhere warm.. But nowhere near as hot as a turbo even on a coolish day  ;D

NickB
If FGW don't pay out for running trains late they aren't going to pay out for replying to an email late  Grin
Quote from NickB

Thats a true statement, although it's a shame, i really thought it would be an incentive for all the daily issues you have to go through, oh well..

PS.  Still no signs at all at Maidenhead station announcing the change, nor at Paddington.  But I was delighted to hear on the 19.06 service that there are engineering works starting in February.  It didn't specify what year.
Quote from NicKB

Engineering works due to start in February, does that mean that august's engineering work has been called off?
If so why does the 1948 HST service get withdrawn then?
If that statement is not true then i wonder if the 1948 will not only be affected in august but also in february of next year possibly, although as Nick says no year was provided. Hmm it makes you think what is happening sometimes...

 

Sadly not - the announcements on the 19.06 to Henley have been going on for several weeks.  it just amused me that FGW have an announcement for historic engineering works but haven't got one for the impending works.

Update:  There is a poster at Maidenhead station.  At the top of the stairs to platform 3 (ie. for travellers to Reading, so completely the wrong place).  I took some time to read it this morning and, even knowing what I was looking for, I couldn't find anything about the 19.48 from Paddington.  Skills.

James - there are no spare Adelantes at that time of day. Or HSTs

Hmm that's interesting, just trying to wind up the passengers even more...

I suppose all that First Great Western want you to know is that it will be withdrawn with no replacement train, whilst the 1948 isn't running.

Since FGW are so incapable of providing information about planned changes to services, the alternative is the 1950 service from Paddington to Slough but requiring a change of platforms. Hmm i foresee the Maidenhead Advertiser reporting on this very issue sooner or later...

Same can be said for Turbo's, but i find it hard that you say there's a lack of HST's when in fact the 1948 service is run with one of those, so please explain to me why there would be no spare HST's for the 1948?

Good question .. I asked it in reply #26 and didn't get an answer.   I'm guessing the answer is one of
* they're taking advantage of the engineering works to have an extra train serviced when it's not needed
* we have nowhere to turn it around.  There are platform / path issues
* it wouldn't take many passengers and we would make a loss on it
* it doesn't work out for crew rotas
* too complicated to work out
* because I say so
* I don't know
* all of the above

Or put more simply... as it's FGW after all.. They really can't be bothered.. If they are bothered to reply  at least.. I'll let you know

It's an interesting one, the HST stables overnight in Worcester, which might explain why running it as far as Swindon would have been awkward, but I agree with Jo, Nick and James in this instance that cancelling it completely is a pretty poor show.

Cannot be sure grahame, but whatever the answer is a replacement service is needed now, or poor FGW will get a headache from the media  ;)

Let us remember that it is August and, judging by my evening return journey today, numbers of travellers are significantly reduced.  Presumably FGW have taken a judgement that this reduction will be enough that there is not a significant problem. They may be right or they may be wrong.  We will only really find out next Monday evening. 

I've seen no reduction in passengers in the school holidays.. Will wait to hear what FGW don't do with interest

Well there is a reduction during the summer holidays - my unscientific eye would say about 20% less passengers than during, say, a week in February.  But then that might make many trains just full rather than intolerably full, so the removal of an entire train doesn't necessarily make for good customer service.

But the entire train doesn't alight at Maidenhead....

Yes i agreed with that point Chris, but that doesn't give a valid reason to get rid of the vital 1948.
From my know experience, witnessing by eye a medium to large group of people deboard at Maidenhead at 2006 if on time that is, so really again i have to say a replacement is needed. Now surely of all people like yourself Chris should understand this by now, if not come to Maidenhead at around 2005 and see for yourself, i think you will be amazed.
Lets be sensable since Maidenhead has recorded passenger numbers of nearly over 4 million people journeys, so its really silly whats being withdrawal.

Thanks james.. Chrisb.. have you tried it..go on...?

Now I've not had a good hunt around. But considering this starts next week for three weeks.. Has anyone seen any warnings/information?

No problem jo.
Apparently NickB has seen something on Platform 3 at Maidenhead but i think its information relating to something else. Oh dear looks like Monday evening is going to be a warzone at Paddington...

I think warzone is stretching it a little, but I bet there will be a few confused and annoyed punters.  Perhaps we should have given Jo and Nick a big sign to carry when they were on Maidenhead station over the last few weeks to try and spread the word if FGW aren't prepared to do a proper job!

I don't get to see the 19:48ex PAD at Maidenhead very often, so can't be absolutely sure of the numbers travelling in the 'quieter' summer holiday weeks, though I did see the previous fast 19:18ex PAD arrive at Maidenhead last night and at a rough guess about 100-120 people alighted, so I can't see the 19:48 attracting too many less than that.

I agree, and i wonder how many people would have been happy with the change? Not many i presume :)
I have been on the 1948 before last August and a lot of people have deboarded and looked miserable even when the service runs...
So u dont win, oh well thats life :)

The 19.18 is quieter as it's a Class-180 (well it's supposed to be)... It can take 2 or 3 minutes sometimes more for the platform to clear of people getting off of the 19.48 although admittedly it is Platform 1 at Maidenhead

On FGW site:

Monday to Friday 12-16 August, 19-23 August and 26-30 August 2013
^Rail replacement buses will operate between Swindon and Kemble.
^Trains will operate between Kemble and Gloucester/ Cheltenham Spa and will run to an amended timetable.
^Some peak services from London to Gloucester, Cheltenham Spa and Worcester Shrub Hill will be diverted via Bristol Parkway with extended journey times
^Customers for Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa should travel via Bristol Parkway, changing trains if necessary
^Customers can expect journeys to take between 30-55 minutes longer than usual.

No mention of any cancelled trains... :-[

Well Jo, there's obviously nothing that can be done, First Great Western just cannot help themselves...

i was on the 0653 from Twyford (0703 from Maidenhead) this morning, and just after passing Ealing Broadway the driver made an announcement over the PA to inform Maidenhead passengers that the 1948 would not be running for the next three weeks. He gave no advice about any alternative services.

I was at Melksham station last night, collecting a visitor.   No indication what so ever there that the 07:20 to Swindon will be running at 07:04.  Rather odd, as I've got a .pdf of the poster for the job from the FGW publicity folks.   It probably just went up at Westbury and / or Trowbridge, as there are no free poster boards at Melksham station.

Advise about alternatives at Melksham.  "The next train to Chippenham and Swindon will leave at 19:47".  ;D

I was on the 07.18 form Maidenhead and they didn't say anything.
They didn't even mention the fact that we were on the 07.18 as opposed to the 07.19.  I had feared that the change would have been missed by passengers and would have left some irate travellers at Maidenhead - but thankfully FGW conspired to make the train 10mins late anyway.   ;D
Maybe this is the new plan... just delay earlier trains to pick up everyone left in limbo by the cancellations and changes.

Officially suggested options from 19:00 to 20:00 this evening, Paddington to Maidenhead:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/padmhdaug13.jpg)

Probably done off of his own initiative, rather than any specific instruction/request from anyone.  Perhaps he reads this forum...  ;)

Oh, and anyone deciding to take the 19:50 (change at Slough) option tonight has been rewarded by a 2-Car Turbo replacing the booked 3-Car Turbo.   ::)

I took the 19.18 turbotised (should be a class 180) and very very dirty inside 19.18 option (cleaners must have overlooked it) ... There is no alternative to getting back to Maidenhead at just past 20.05 other than travelling half hour earlier.. I wonder what they are doing with the spare HST  ::)

I don't think that there is a "spare" HST. There are 3 through trains from Paddington to Cheltenham via Bristol Parkway during the Swindon-Kemble closure at 15:36. 17:48 and 18:47. These are the same departure times as the normal timetable and usually the 15:36 comes back to Paddington to form something like a 21:46 to Oxford. However during the blockade it doesn't have time to do that and finishes its day at Cheltenham and then home to bed, so effectively they are a set down in the evening at Paddington and they have chosen to cancel the 19:48 as a result.

Hope it makes sense,

ST

So what happens to the train that usually arrives at Paddington to form the 19.48 then? Where would that have been around that time? I'm sure it usually brings passengers in.. unless that is cancelled too?

Educated guess ...

18:34 Cheltenham to Paddington (due in 20:48) is not running.
19:48 Paddington to Cheltenham is not running

Incoming stock for 19:48 to Cheltenham leaving at 21:46 for Oxford instead. 
Plenty of platforms in the evening at Paddington for it to park up for a couple of hours as I recall.

But if I've guessed that right, I'm not sure why the 18:34 can't make it back via Parkway.  The 15:36 gets to Cheltenham Spa at 18:15 during the diversion, and normally gets back at 20:48.  Not a very busy return service, mind you, from the statistically insignificant sample of one trip I've made on it.

Thanks Grahame.. Sounds like a good enough reason for now even if, as you indicate, it doesn't appear to be a very good reason really...

FGW on twitter appear not to have known about this either by looking at some of the "tweets" earlier.. At least one reply said the train had been removed from the timetable until a while later someone told them what really had happened and that it was only for 3 weeks..

Is there something really really wrong with FGW and their communication, and not just to passengers??

Sounds like the 19.50 to Slough was horribly full (so I wasn't wrong then!).. :P ::)

I'll admit to having a degree of sympathy with FGW on this if the extra mileage of a round trip between Cheltenham Spa and London via Bristol Parkway is to be incurred with only the London - Maidenhead section of the round trip expected to well loaded ... the 19:45 and 20:00 off Paddington provide alternatives to Reading, with the 20:00 carrying on to Swindon and arriving there just a handful of minutes after the 19:48.   I also have sympathy for those passengers who have their journey time home doubled and are sardined to boot at the end of a long day!

Indeed Grahame.. But made even worse when it came as a surprise to a lot of them these people this evening... Communication doesn't cost much (FGW still needs to learn the art of communication)

The train that usually forms the 1948 Pad - Worcester is the 1P71 from Oxford. For the next three weeks this arrives at Paddington as usual, then runs as 5P71 1948 Paddington - Old Oak Common.

So I was right.. There IS a spare HST  ::) :P

Not necessarily. If another HST is being stabled at Cheltenham rather than coming back to Old Oak Common depot then that will not be maintained. The HSTs still all need to be maintained or they will become more unreliable.

I put something on twitter about this and a nice guy who works for FGW apparently (but not one of the people working on twitter) e-mailed someone about this and apparently the communication was "overlooked".. Quite how it can be overlooked when I've told them about it more than once is beyond me. If I was that bad at my job I wouldn't have a job anymore...

He also said they are looking to see if there is another train that can be stopped at Maidenhead to replace it meanwhile so I'm quite hopeful now..

Hope is a dangerous thing   :D

I bet they find one, in approx 3 weeks time  ;)

Me too..  I also anticipate/know that they won't reply to my e-mail on the subject till then either  ::)

You have 6 direct train options from Paddington to Maidenhead between 1900-2000, some of which take around 20 minutes - those of us who use Taplow station have 2, which take far longer, and most weekdays no service at all (apart from a bus from Slough) after 9pm, and no Sunday service.

Notwithstanding higher levels of demand and the larger size of Maidenhead, I'd say count your blessings!  ;)

An interesting point about this timetable amendment is that no other users of the 19:48 that travel further than Maidenhead International have made any comment on here. As TaplowGreen states in their last post pax to Maidenhead ought to be lucky.

  I'm sure some of the users of the 19:48 that travel further down the line have a far more traumatic journey to undertake with these changes.

Not unless they're travelling beyond Swindon - where no trains are running anyway of course.  The other stops (Reading, Didcot and Swindon) have a fast HST service within 12 minutes at 20:00 which arrives between 9-12 minutes later.  Reading also has the 19:50, though as we've discussed that's only a 3-car Turbo).  That might explain why the decision to run the 19:48 as far as Swindon wasn't made.

I'm sure it is, as II suggests, because other stations have alternatives.


Now you see I envy Taplow.   I'm working in London today, and the first train from my station was too late (09:20) for an 09:00 appointment .... and one of my delegates here is grumbling about the gap from 07:04 to 07:26 (I think he said) in services from Surbiton ... which the folks from Maidenhead might find acceptable if the trains were expresses

Well the folks at Maidenhead have a real choice of express trains between the hours of 0700 and 0800. The ones being 0703, 0718 and 0730. Then a big gap until 0800 then closely followed behind by a 0802 fast service. Then nothing until 0834 and again until 0903. My question is, why there is no 0818 or 0848 as the station around those times are very busy. After all the people from surbiton get a far more superior service of fast expresses (even if it takes 20 minutes from Surbiton, since its obviously closer to london than maidenhead is). to enjoy. I feel Maidenhead is on the list to have even less fast trains come IEP timetable introduction, and it will be more of very slow stopping crossrail services. You might as well send the crossrail services via Windsor and Heathrow to get to Central London if and its a big IF, Windsor RailLink gets built, whenever that may be...

Edited as there is a nice HST 0708 which also calls at Maidenhead, anymore nice trains out there which could stop at Maidenhead? ;D

As a general point, rush hour trains fill up quickly.

A service that calls at each station on a 10 station line during the day (Off peak), picking up an average of 40 passengers at each of them, reaches London with 400 people.    A similar stopping pattern in the peak, where 100 people would joint at each station, would reach London with 1000 on board - a significant problem if there was only space for 600.   Each train is expensive to operate and people want fast journeys; sometimes the solution is to have some faster services with fewer stops to increase overall capacity.   You will note occasional trains which don't even call at Reading.

Thats true grahame, however if say the 0800 from Maidenhead starting from Didcot Parkway, which doesnt call at reading from what i recall is cancelled, it means that everyone has to crowd on to the 0802 2 car service which can get quite interesting with people basically standing right in front of each others faces or backs!. Not nice as you know :)
For off peak times if say the 0932 and 0947 were cancelled and there where 2 or even three car trains and with journeys over 46 minutes, then no wonder why people get fed up. I think some people wish there were at Surbiton at off peak times as there are trains every 20 minutes and fast as well. Also it gets better as people get 8/10 or even 12 car train desiros compared to what thames valley travellers get..

Something off topic... How can the 0935 from Maidenhead reach Taplow in 1 minute at 0936...
Other trains take 3 to 4 minutes between the two stations, so i am a bit confused about the 0935 service, unless the turbo train travels at lightning speed to reach Taplow without getting delayed en route.

The running time Maidenhead Taplow for a a non defensive driver is 21/2 minutes, but it would goobble fuel.

Electric time should be 3 minutes.

I always reckoned the 07:23 to Padd stopping at Burnham Slough Hayes Ealing Broadway (7: 49) in NSE days had around 4 minutes in hand from Taplow  to Ealing.

The 7 minutes 07:49 - 07:56 from Ealing to Padd was a bit tight and required a clear run, but it's much better than the 12/13 minutes you get nowadays.

You can't timetable extra trains in case of cancellation! How would that work for every station across the network? Maidenhead pax are no more important than any other station's commuters!

Everyone wants fast trains and a trade off will always be necessary. Would suggest more pax travel from Surbiton for a start....

I think Maidenhead stands to gain off-peak come the arrival of Crossrail with the 4tph of Crossrail supplemented by the 2tph planned 'semi-fast' Greater Western services, presumably stopping at Slough, maybe Hayes, then Ealing Broadway.  There might also be the planned 2tph shuttle as far as Slough if the powers that be don't see sense and extend Crossrail to Reading from the outset.

The peak hour service is more questionable.  How many passengers will transfer to Crossrail knowing the journey time to Paddington will be around 37 minutes instead of just over 20 by fast train at the moment - but then they can stay on that same train and get direct to Farrington in 44 minutes or Canary Wharf in 54 minutes?  I'm guessing even the timetable modellers will have a hard time working out who will do what to any precise degree, but surveys to find out where people on the GW route actually go to work should determine the rough percentages.

My guess is that there won't be the demand for fast services that there is now, but there will still be enough people wanting to go direct to Paddington that fast peak trains (by which I mean a maximum of one stop at Slough and a journey time of 25 minutes or less) will still be provided from Maidenhead at similar intervals to now.

If it is 2 and half minutes, then the pdf timetable 8 is incorrect. I think the reason being is that fgw are trying to shave some minutes on the 0935 (formally 0932) so it doesnt take over 45 minutes but instead takes 41 minutes....
Also the time between ealing broadway and london paddington is silly. Problem with that is the silly greenford shuttle is in the way, made worse by calling at Acton Mainline. You come to London Paddington where the train waits for another train to depart thats blocking its path into either platforms 12/13 or 14 once cleared which takes i dunno 3-5 minutes. obviously there is nothing that can be done to improve the situation, until crossrail makes an appearence.

Now, I remember the First Great Western Link days (possibly thames trains also operated this timetable, although not sure about Network Southeast).

There were trains at these times, right;
1004, 1015, 1034, 1045 and so on.
Now the 1004 (i think) called at Taplow, Burnham, Slough, Hayes and Harlington and Ealing Broadway arriving at London Paddington at around 1042?
FGWL didnt have West Drayton in this service, however it now calls additionally at West Drayton for some unknown reason and departs 2 minutes earlier from Maidenhead at 1002 and arrives at 1046. So yes i agree with you totally the old days were the best, why FGW didnt retain the previous thames trains and fgwl timetable is beyond me...

Yes, well if it balances out the passenger load on fast services into london then i would also agree that people look at that option.
If they cannot be any further fast trains from Maidenhead then add additional coaches... Oh wait theres a lack of them... ok what about pacers for thames valley routes that will make additional capacity wont it?, or are they banned from the thames valley? Why is planning a rail system this bad? I suppose its something to do with budget cuts...

The advent of Heathrow Connect meant that West Drayton, Iver and Langley had to be served by longer distance trains as the Slough stoppers were withdrawn.  The extended journey times from stations such as Twyford, Maidenhead, Taplow, Burnham and Slough are indeed disappointing, but as usual there are also many positive aspects to the current timetable to that which was in operation around ten years ago:

• West Drayton has now grown to the stage that a stopping train every 30 minutes (as was the case in this timetable you want reinstating) would be totally inadequate as they now enjoy twice as many trains which are faster.
• West Drayton, Langley and Iver passengers now have a direct service to Maidenhead, Reading and Oxford
• Taplow used to only have one train per hour, now it has two
• Hayes now has an extra train each hour

Ye i agree, just a mess to be honest, but anyway what comes will need to be accepted if trains call additionally at Slough then at least its something.

You're right - all to do with mammoth underinvestment in rail over decades.

But you can see the taxpayer's (read Govt of the day) point - why should anyone north of, say, Banbury have their tax-pounds spent on rail in areas that they'll never use it?.....Also, you might be surprised to learn that the GWL isn't the only line with this problem either....

Bzzzt! No they don't.

I would rather a nice  regular, on time, comfy, air conditioned, spacious (by which I mean sufficient carriages for the passengers, not massive armchairs and tables!) slow stopper, over fast trains requiring changes, any day of the week.

Call me old fashioned, but if I am paying through the nose for something, then I want to get as much out of it as possible!

This is what is so difficult. Got to give everyone a decent service, which is fair enough.
Ok this is what i would do. I would;
^ Insert two tracks between Hayes and Harlington and London Paddington (low level). Also requires an additional two platforms to make 4 platforms (2 for slow and 2 for fast services).
Clear the whole Paddington area from those houses and build the houses or flats on top of the railway.
^ Then rebuild Acton Mainline to insert 2 further tracks
^ Then at Ealing Broadway redevelop the whole area, moving the house and flats over the railway towards the east of Ealing Broadway. Then remodel the tube layout by moving it northwards.
^ At West Ealing, Hanwell and Southall remodel the whole area so additional 2 tracks can be inserted.
^ At Hayes and Harlington a total rebuild to provide two platforms for Down Loop Heathrow and Up Loop Heathrow for the fast crossrail lines. The same design applies to the slow crossrail lines. Keep the Flyover, and after the flyover you can bring the two slow crossrail lines onto the fast lines after Hayes via another flyover to link up with the down and up relief lines to remove the conflicts from changing points.
^ Rebuild Slough Station with 4 crossrail platforms, with the other two being for highspeed trains for speeds up to 170mph...
^ Build a dive under west of slough to connect the windsor branch onto the Reading relief line.
^ Rebuild Taplow to a 2 platform station. The other two platforms arent really needed, since when engineering works are running, you have a replacement bus between Slough and Maidenhead.
^ Build turnback siding's at Maidenhead in the middle of the relief lines to allow for 2 tph crossrail services to terminate if disruption occurs.
^ No need to change Twyford, although one additional platform could be constructed for peak services.
And Reading. Now here, theres a few options. Extend some crossrail services to Tilehurst, which needs reverse sidings or terminate them at Reading, by building two dedicated crossrail platforms. Also two through tracks for high speed trains should be inserted, as well as two freight tracks that have two tracks that dont come into platforms, thus speeds can be increased.
Crosscountry trains should have two dedicated platforms of its known.
Thats what should happen in my eyes but i wont happen. Think it has a dream world paradise railway or whatever. After all you can see what benefits you could have by operating this railway or not depending on your view point :)

Yes i'll admit and hold my hands up,  that i saw problems elsewhere in the UK. Although again i say its due to bad planning...

Just as a matter of interest, James: have you costed any, or indeed all, of those projects?  ;) :D ;D

I didnt bother doing that, as it was a draft idea at the back of my head. However if i did bother to cost it i reckon it will be in the billions, and not sure the local population would like to move (even if it is only a metres away from where they currently live).
Also they wouldnt accept the compensation even if it was reasonable, cause life is worth more than dollars, opps pounds :)
At the end of the day a better and improved railway will make people happy and cheerful right?   ;D

Ask some of those living near the proposed route of HS2 and I think you might get a different answer.

Well ye thats true, however without running off topic for too long, i dont understand why there are no stations proposed in the chilterns, surely this would be built if a station was provided say at Amersham... anyway i finish it there.

Coz it's a fast hi-speed service, not a stopping service?

Well ye thats true, however i thought HS2 was going to have four tracks instead of two, enabling some trains to stop in the chilterns if stations are to be built in that area. Although i am not sure about that, maybe someone can confirm this?

Moving onto other matters, according to opentrain times there are further changes to the evening peak service from December this year (although its obviously not confirmed yet)

It looks as if the 1718 will skip stop Twyford and run non stop between Maidenhead and Reading
Also the 1836 is retimed to 1842 and runs on the reliefs arriving later at Maidenhead at 1915. Not sure Maidenhead commuters will like that...
Apart from that i didnt see any other changes, however if people know more about this, then i would like to know please, Cheers ;)

There won't be *any* timetables worth looking at for December anywhere yet, they'll only be two or three alliterations through the TT with Network Rail by now - so I'm not sure what data opentrain times is picking up.

And HS" s two lines. Not sure where you got 4 lines from.

Ok chris, thank you :)

Or perhaps 'iterations'?  Don't think you meant 'alliteration' anyway.  'Versions' would do.  Sorry to be a pedant.  :)

Open Train Times explanation of what data they use (mainly direct from Network Rail real-time feeds) can be found here. (http://www.opentraintimes.com/about)

The December timetables that you can access on Open Train Times are of course not set in stone, but are already at the stage where substantial changes are less and less likely.

For example, I have been keeping a close eye on the TransWilts ones since they were first posted on this forum (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12745.msg137131#msg137131), and there has been the odd change here and there, but by no more than a few minutes, with the timetable structure itself remaining as proposed.

fair comment - I meant iterations!

Disagree, sorry - as an example - Chiltern's 1615 & 1715 which are currently fast to Leamington Spa, and Chiltern have verbally confirmed that there'll be no change this Dec, are BOTH shown as stopping at Banbury currently. Pah!

The 16:15 and 17:15 ex Marylebone are both showing as fast to Leamington Spa on my screen having chosen Tuesday 17th December as a random date?

Hmm - I chose Monday 16th, and asked for trains from MYB calling at BAN, and they both appeared....

That is a bit strange, given that when you click on the more information panel it doesn't list Banbury as a calling point!  I think it lists anywhere that is en-route and a WTT timing point as a 'calling point' which is misleading.  It does the same thing for High Wycombe on those same trains - and we know they're not calling there.

So, in this case it's the 'passing time' rather than a station stop, but the raw data it's feeding from is correct.

But of little use if it shows every passing point....

The problem with removing HST services to maidenhead is perfectly exemplified by tonight's car crash at Paddington. I write to you from the 19.18 - a 3 car service that contains all of the passengers from the 18.36, the 19.06, the 19.18 and no doubt the 19.48 too.  It is literally hell on earth.
People live in maidenhead, and many chose to live there because it has HST services that are fast, but also have space and reasonable amenity. If you compress services, either deliberately or, as tonight, via disruption then the 'system' cannot cope.

Oh dear.. Hope you got home ok in the end NickB? It seems that only people commuting from Maidenhead really know how busy it is.. I moved here years ago due to the fast service.. A lot of other people have had the same idea.. I'm just glad I'm not working this week...