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Sideshoots - associated subjects => Railway History and related topics => Topic started by: bobm on July 08, 2013, 09:38:40



Title: British Train Robbery - 8 August 1963 (merged posts)
Post by: bobm on July 08, 2013, 09:38:40
Today (8th July) marks the 50th anniversary of the Great Train Robbery.

Much of the story has been told many times, but there is an interesting five page article in the August issue of The Railway Magazine.  I hadn't realised that the official name of the bridge where the loot was unloaded has been renamed "Train Robbers Bridge" and appears on the official plates advising what people should do in the event of a bridge strike.  I am not sure I agree with the renaming, and neither does the article's author.

There is also a documentary on BBC Radio 4 on Saturday (13th) at 8pm as part of the Archive on 4 Series.

The event certainly made headlines around the world but we should never forget the injuries suffered by Driver Mills and Fireman Whitby.  Both were never the same again and by 1972 - less than ten years after the incident - both were dead.  Whitby was only 34 when he died, Mills was 65.


Title: Re: 50th Anniversary of the Great Train Robbery
Post by: broadgage on July 08, 2013, 10:35:28
Agree, not something to glory in, in view of the serious injuries received by the crew, but no harm in factual and respectful reporting and remembering.

IIRC was there not a proposal to make a film about the crime, and BR declined to assist in view of the injuries received by the crew ?



Title: Re: 50th Anniversary of the Great Train Robbery
Post by: JayMac on July 08, 2013, 18:21:45
Both 'Robbery' (1967 starring Stanley Baker, loosely based) and 'Buster' (1988) used British Rail locations for establishing shots at stations and suchlike, but I'm not sure that either of the actual robbery scenes were filmed on BR metals.

Certainly in the case of 'Buster', the robbery scene was filmed on the Great Central Railway.


Title: Re: 50th Anniversary of the Great Train Robbery
Post by: bobm on July 08, 2013, 18:27:57
According to the Railway Magazine the 1967 film used the Market Harborough to Rugby line.  Meanwhile IMDb says Marylebone stood in for Glasgow Central....


Title: Re: 50th Anniversary of the Great Train Robbery
Post by: JayMac on July 08, 2013, 18:53:46
the 1967 film used the Market Harborough to Rugby line. 

Which may have already been closed, if filming was after June 1966.


Title: Re: 50th Anniversary of the Great Train Robbery
Post by: bobm on October 01, 2013, 21:31:12
Pleased to note that, according to the latest Railway Magazine, Network Rail has decided to change the name of Train Robbers Bridge to Mentmore Bridge.


Title: Great Train Robbery: Luton Model Railway Club re-creates heist (BBC News)
Post by: JayMac on April 13, 2014, 00:25:04
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-26970204):

Quote
The Great Train Robbery has been re-created in miniature by a group of model railway enthusiasts.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74174000/jpg/_74174290_side_angle.jpg)
A spokesman said Luton Model Railway Club did not condone what happened that fateful night

Built by the Luton Model Railway Club, the diorama depicts the night in August 1963 when a gang of robbers stole ^2.6m from a night train in Buckinghamshire.

Scenes depicted include bags of cash being unloaded from a carriage and the robbers making off with their swag.

The club said it did not condone what happened, but felt the infamous heist would "make an interesting display".

'Part of the national consciousness'

It was at 03:00 BST on 8 August that the train travelling between Glasgow and London Euston was stopped by the gang on a bridge between Linslade and Cheddington.

They broke into the High Value Package coach and made off with 120 mailbags weighing about two and a half tonnes stuffed with ^2.6m in used banknotes (about ^41m in today's money).

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74174000/jpg/_74174292_002fb148-bc58-4aee-8cdb-62dafaec3886.jpg)
The diorama was created using the 'O' Gauge 7mm finescale model

The model railway enthusiasts were inspired by last year's 50th anniversary of the infamous raid, and it took them a year to complete their homage.

Nigel Adams, from the club, said: "We do not condone the actions of the event, but it is a fact that the Great Train Robbery has become a part of the national consciousness for many people over a certain age.

"We have tried to portray this event in a sensitive way, taking due regard for the injuries sustained by the locomotive crew on the night."

The diorama features sound and lighting effects "to portray the account of the event", said Mr Adams.

"There are 15 figures on the display, although we have taken care to present them as just that - figures on a model.

"We do not identify any 'personalities' due to the sensitive nature of the subject."

The historical reconstruction, which includes a commentary, will be on display at Stopsley High School, Luton on Saturday and at the National Festival of Railway Modelling in Peterborough in October.

More images of the diorama with the BBC item (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-26970204).


Title: Great Train Robbery memorabilia sold at auction
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 19, 2015, 15:56:52
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31532247):

Quote
Great Train Robbery memorabilia sold at auction

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/80840000/jpg/_80840561_robbery5.jpg)
The sale demonstrated the "enduring appeal" of the robbery, said auctioneer Jonathan Humbert

Monopoly money used by the Great Train Robbers as they lay low in the aftermath of the raid has been sold at auction, along with various other items associated with the infamous heist.

The money, used in a game played while the gang was holed up at a remote farm near Aylesbury, made over ^400.

A watch worn by Ronnie Biggs during the 1963 raid went for ^900, while a ^1 note taken by the robbers fetched ^750.

They were among dozens of lots sold, fetching a total of about ^20,000.

An ignition key and petrol caps from getaway vehicles and a length of wire used to alter railway signals were among other items sold to various buyers in the UK, America and Japan.

Jonathan Humbert, of J P Humbert Auctioneers in Towcester, Northamptonshire, said the sale demonstrated "the enduring appeal of this most audacious robbery".

Bruce Reynolds planned the attack, at Mentmore Bridge in Buckinghamshire, on an overnight mail train travelling from Glasgow to London on 8 August 1963.

The gang of 15 wearing helmets and ski masks made off with ^2.6m in used banknotes - worth some ^40m today - a then-record haul.

Train driver Jack Mills was struck over the head during the robbery and never worked again. He died in 1970.

Reynolds evaded capture for five years but eventually spent 10 years in jail. He died in February 2013.

Biggs, who died aged 84 in December 2013, was jailed for 25 years but escaped from prison in 1965 and fled to Australia and then Brazil. He eventually returned to the UK to serve out his sentence.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/80839000/jpg/_80839210_thetrain2_eveningstandardgettyimages.jpg)
The ^2.6m haul of used banknotes was stolen in 30 minutes



Title: Re: Great Train Robbery memorabilia sold at auction
Post by: bobm on February 19, 2015, 20:52:41
I must admit I feel a little uncomfortable about people profiting from this.


Title: Re: Great Train Robbery memorabilia sold at auction
Post by: JayMac on February 19, 2015, 22:42:38
Yep.

What happened to the 'Chance' and 'Community Chest' cards? Particularly the 'Go to jail. Move directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect ^200' ones?


Title: Re: Great Train Robbery memorabilia sold at auction
Post by: Tim on February 20, 2015, 11:18:01
I must admit I feel a little uncomfortable about people profiting from this.

Me too.  Nothing wrong with interest in what was, after all, a significant crime.  But as with the Kray brothers, the lionising of the thugs involved make me feel uncomfortable too.  (why is it always London criminals treated like that?) 

Ultimately the gang were insufficiently punished for a nasty crime which cost an innocent train driver his health and happiness and the fact that they never showed any regrets or empathy with the victim.



Title: Great Train Robbery 1963 talk
Post by: infoman on May 06, 2023, 17:59:02
by Ian Boskett
Tuesday 9th may 2023 BAWA club 589 Southmead Road, Filton, BRISTOL, BS34 7RG 19:30 for 19:45 and all are welcome.


Title: British Mail Train Robberies
Post by: grahame on August 04, 2023, 21:56:20
Preparing for the 60th anniversary of the Great Train Robbery on 8th August 1963 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Train_Robbery_(1963)) ... came across this modern day equivalent from today's Daily Record (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/two-teens-accused-trying-steal-30627180)

Quote
Two teens accused of trying to steal mail from a Royal Mail train near Lockerbie
Officers for the British Transport Police said a signal box had also been damaged which forced the closure of the West Coast Main Line between Lockerbie and Carlisle for several hours.

Two isolated incidents, or are mail train robberies a daily thing?


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: Electric train on August 05, 2023, 07:08:10
Preparing for the 60th anniversary of the Great Train Robbery on 8th August 1963 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Train_Robbery_(1963)) ...

Should I warn Thames Valley Police to be on the lookout for a suspicious  character from Wiltshire hanging around Train Robber Bridge in Buckinghamshire ????  ;D


came across this modern day equivalent from today's Daily Record (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/two-teens-accused-trying-steal-30627180)

Quote
Two teens accused of trying to steal mail from a Royal Mail train near Lockerbie
Officers for the British Transport Police said a signal box had also been damaged which forced the closure of the West Coast Main Line between Lockerbie and Carlisle for several hours.

Two isolated incidents, or are mail train robberies a daily thing?

I do not think so, there are not that many Royal Mail trains running today and certainly Royal Mail is not carried on regular passenger trains like it used to be.  If this type of crime was common place it would be all over the media and would be headlines in the Dail fail and Daily excuse as a public outrage



Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: grahame on August 05, 2023, 07:24:47
Preparing for the 60th anniversary of the Great Train Robbery on 8th August 1963 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Train_Robbery_(1963)) ...

Should I warn Thames Valley Police to be on the lookout for a suspicious  character from Wiltshire hanging around Train Robber Bridge in Buckinghamshire ????  ;D

Nah - but your could  bring this to their attention: http://www.passenger.chat/foss8.html


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 05, 2023, 13:19:05
Preparing for the 60th anniversary of the Great Train Robbery on 8th August 1963 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Train_Robbery_(1963)) ...

Should I warn Thames Valley Police to be on the lookout for a suspicious  character from Wiltshire hanging around Train Robber Bridge in Buckinghamshire ????  ;D

Nah - but your could  bring this to their attention: http://www.passenger.chat/foss8.html
Then you could visit Tom Long's Post. (https://magpieseven.wordpress.com/mercian-enactment-society/tom-longs-post/) The 18th century equivalent of a train robber!


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: bobm on August 05, 2023, 14:29:48
Probably worth the annual reminder that very few in the railway refer to the 1963 event as “great”.


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: Electric train on August 05, 2023, 16:02:06
Probably worth the annual reminder that very few in the railway refer to the 1963 event as “great”.

I agree nothing great or heroic about it, Jack Mills never fully recovered from his injuries


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: stuving on August 05, 2023, 17:01:51
Two isolated incidents, or are mail train robberies a daily thing?

No, it's the same one incident as was reported two days before (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=27740) this mention in the Record.


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: ChrisB on August 05, 2023, 20:34:32
I think Graham might have had a few when he started this thread....


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: broadgage on August 05, 2023, 23:54:24
Probably worth the annual reminder that very few in the railway refer to the 1963 event as “great”.

I agree nothing great or heroic about it, Jack Mills never fully recovered from his injuries

To be charitable, "great" could be taken as an indication of the scale of the robbery, which was undoubtedly greater than almost all other robberies. And NOT meaning "great" as in any way admirable, heroic, or to be commended.
To avoid confusion, it would in my view be better not to use the word "great" when referring to this crime. "The train robbery" or if an indication of the scale of the theft is required "The huge train robbery"


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 06, 2023, 09:02:31
We still talk of the "the Great War", a name given over a hundred years ago when usage was slightly different to today. Which reminds us that this train robbery was closer in time, and quite possibly in terms of use of the word "great", to the end of WW1 than to today.


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: grahame on August 06, 2023, 09:43:36
We still talk of the "the Great War", a name given over a hundred years ago when usage was slightly different to today. Which reminds us that this train robbery was closer in time, and quite possibly in terms of use of the word "great", to the end of WW1 than to today.

Indeed - the (online) dictionary gives two definitions

1.
of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above average.
"the article was of great interest"

2.
of ability, quality, or eminence considerably above average.
"the great Italian conductor"

The First World War and the 1963 train robbery both fall into the first definition.


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: broadgage on August 07, 2023, 04:55:24
We still talk of the "the Great War", a name given over a hundred years ago when usage was slightly different to today. Which reminds us that this train robbery was closer in time, and quite possibly in terms of use of the word "great", to the end of WW1 than to today.

And the "great storm" of 1987.
And the "great depression" of the 1930s.

Neither event was considered to be admirable.


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: eXPassenger on August 07, 2023, 18:24:56
I always thought that 'great' referred to magnitude and not magnificence in this context.


Title: Re: Brisish Mail Train Robberies
Post by: TonyK on August 08, 2023, 15:54:10

And the "great storm" of 1987.


These days, you are as likely to hear "They say it will be as bad as the Great Storm of a couple of weeks ago".

I'll have a half of what grahame's drinking.


Title: Re: British Train Robbery - 8 August 1963 (merged posts)
Post by: broadgage on October 12, 2024, 23:37:56
I see no harm in remembering the event, talking about it, and making and exhibiting models, provided that this be done in a suitably respectful way.
Not something to glorify or profit from.


Title: Re: British Train Robbery - 8 August 1963 (merged posts)
Post by: infoman on October 13, 2024, 05:57:59
I recall going to a model show exhibition at the UWE in North Bristol a few years ago and a guy had set up a stall with loads of info about the train robbery.

I have also been to two talks about the train robbery in the last couple of years by the same talker.



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