Great Western Coffee Shop

http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk/Plan-reopen-disused-railway-line/story-19171644-detail/story.html

http://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news/10501940._/?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Re-open-the-Cheltenham-to-Kingham-railway-line-to-link-with-East-West-Rail/262628167202496

http://www.cotswoldsconnect.com/forum/thread/46/re-open-the-cheltenham-to-kingham-railway-line-to-link-with-east-west-rail/

No chance.   ::)

If you were to twist my arm into a binary response, I'd agree. But we should never say 'never...'

I didn't read the attachments in Grahame's original post, but when the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Railway finally reaches Honeybourne, then Cheltenham to Kingham may well be possible

Well thinking in those terms it's possible now - there's even a choice (via Worcester or via Swindon and Didcot). However I think the point of this campaign is that it'd be nice (and probably even a bit quicker) to be able to go via Andoversford and Bourton :-)

The Oxford Mail carries the following report:
COUNCILLORS have questioned whether there is sufficient demand to warrant reopening a railway line between Cheltenham and Kingham.
Gloucestershire County Council was asked to consider the plan at a council meeting on Wednesday following a Facebook campaign.
Lib Dem councillor Paul Hodgkinson said the line would bring a ^much-needed west-east public transport link, which is sadly lacking^.
But cabinet member for infrastructure Will Windsor-Clive, a Conservative, said it would cost about ^300m to ^500m to reinstate the 24 miles of track.
He said: ^In 2008, proposals to reinstate the Lewes-Uckfield line in Sussex, which is around nine miles in length, were costed at ^141m.
^Reinstating the Cheltenham to Kingham line would additionally require substantial new track through both Cheltenham and Bourton where the old route has been built over, the rebuilding of the Dowdswell Viaduct and the recommissioning of the Sandywell Park Tunnel.
^I would question whether there is sufficient demand, particularly given it would not provide a faster route to London, to persuade any Government that this is a good investment.^
The Facebook group, Re-open the Cheltenham to Kingham Railway Line, has gained 58 ^likes^.
The passenger service on the Cheltenham to Kingham line was suspended in 1962.

News reports on this scheme (they are mostly very similar) repeat the observation that reopening this line would not give a quicker route from Cheltenham to London. I think this rather misses the point. Currently the only way east from Cheltenham and Gloucester involves going either via Worcester (a 25-mile diversion) or via London. The Cheltenham-Kingham line could however be viewed as a logical extension of the East-West route (http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/), currently being revived.

There is also potential for a new east-west freight route along this line, especially if the chord at Yarnton was rebuilt (though this would be expensive due to the need to cross the Oxford Western Bypass).

Anything would be possible these days if unlimited funding is available. Unfortunately, it never is.

Looking at the map, this would also involve crossing the A44 at Peartree (formerly a level crossing), where there is now a large roundabout before the former track bed forms part of the A4260 dual carriageway to Kidlington.  Finally, there is the A34 dual carriageway.  Add to this the fact that the embankment from Yarnton was removed many years ago. I think that it was used in the construction of Cumnor bypass a few miles away.

Personally, I think that if there is any money floating around to restore lost rail links in the area (which I doubt) then there would be a much stronger business case for the route from Yarnton to Witney and, possibly Carterton.  The rush hour traffic jams between Witney and Oxford have to be seen to believed!

Well without getting into detailed design (!) I imagine you'd go a bit south of the A4620 roundabout, but I agree that there are plenty of schemes that should get the green light ahead of this one - the Campaign for better Transport has a shopping list of 36 (http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/campaigns/public_transport/rail/lines_that_should_reopen/top_36), but I suspect we all have our favourites!

Red Squirrel makes the most significant point. Reinstatement of Cheltenham to Kingham extends the current East-West plans. Bring it on.

I think you need to extend it from the current terminus rather than building bits 'n pieces

Interesting list one that I'm surpirsed is not under links in the Network is Bourne End - High Wycombe. It links the major town in Bucks Slough Maidenehad (alright Berks) and Wycombe Aylesbury and Milton Keynes,  and With east West and Biscester curve a 3rd  alternative to Oxford plus Bedford and links from the GMWL main line with Chiltern WCML and MML.

That is getting very convoluted!

I'm not surprised at all....little cost/benefit ratio, I suspect. Oxford is quicker on the current route, and currently, only 1 train/hour is due to stop at Wycombe for Oxford, although that might change.

What demand is there for Slough/Maidenhead to Aylesbury? Pretty slim, I would suggest.

Might make a list of 100, in my opinion

Actually the major demand is actually (Maidenhead) Bourne End - Wycombe the other links already exist which give the longer journey opportunities. The next is probably Aylesbury - Milton Keynes. So a Maidenhead to Bedford (via Milton Keynes) is a stock working with lots of other jounreny opportunities with perhaps one change.

I would have thought just Bourne End to Wycombe would attract more passengers than Bently Bordon or Madeley jundction - Madeley (although teh trak already there.

How many buses run Bourne End-Wycombe currently? That's usually an indicator of demand.

Every 30 minutes, with one of those extending to/from Maidenhead.  There's also a similar frequency on the Wycombe-Slough route.  There undoubtedly is quite a lot of demand (my experiences of the A404 aren't great!), but not enough to justify the quite large cost I would imagine - several housing estates and business parks on the old route and a challenging terrain both in gradient and housing density to try and work out a new alignment.

And why stop at Cheltenham? I would suggest that the trains should originate and terminate at Cardiff. At the moment the huge, vaguely triangular swath of country with its apex at Bristol out to the North Sea coast between Norfolk and Lincolnshire (i.e., between the South Wales to London and South Wales to Birmingham lines) is not easily accessible by rail for people living in Bristol and points west.

I'm sure a convincing business case can be constructed, the population in this triangle is not insignificant...

Currently the only way east from Cheltenham and Gloucester - there's even a choice - involves going either via Worcester (a 25-mile diversion) or via Swindon and Didcot.
However I think the point of this campaign is that it'd be a lot quicker to be able to go via Andoversford and Bourton :-)

The Cheltenham-Kingham line could however be viewed as a logical extension of the East-West route, currently being revived.

And why stop at Cheltenham?
I would suggest that the trains should originate and terminate at Cardiff.
At the moment the huge, vaguely triangular swath of country with its apex at Bristol out to the North Sea coast between Norfolk and Lincolnshire (i.e., between the South Wales to London and South Wales to Birmingham lines) is not easily accessible by rail for people living in Bristol and points west.

I'm sure a convincing business case can be constructed, the population in this triangle is not insignificant...

There is also potential for a new east-west freight route along this line, especially if the chord at Yarnton was rebuilt (though this would be expensive due to the need to cross the Oxford Western Bypass).  Looking at the map, this would also involve crossing the A44 at Peartree (formerly a level crossing), where there is now a large roundabout before the former track bed forms part of the A4260 dual carriageway to Kidlington.  Finally, there is the A34 dual carriageway.  Add to this the fact that the embankment from Yarnton was removed many years ago. I think that it was used in the construction of Cumnor bypass a few miles away.
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I note the comments that have been made above, by various contributors.

The good news is that the reinstatement can be done by deviating the route South of Cheltenham and at Bourton on the Water with only a handful of buildings having to be demolished.
This would avoid disruption and bring the cost down.

Deviated railway South of Cheltenham
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=339271092871536&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898403.&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=340125222786123&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898462.&type=3&theater

Deviated railway West of Bourton on the Water
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=312283648903614&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898660.&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=295147507283895&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898855.&type=3&theater

There is space beside A40 road for a railway at Andoversford, because the A40 road only follows the M&SWJR trackbed for a short distance South of Old Gloucester Road.

Railway at Andoversford
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=283967861735193&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898641.&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=324736567658322&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898618.&type=3&theater

Cheltenham Kingham Rail is spamming the site to further their own ends, not seen a intro post to explain who they are its obvious what they want ............. free advertising.

I do welcome groups / individuals who want to build / re-open railways, a hello we are would be nice

Look, I'm sorry but this proposal is a non starter.

If we had a limitless pot of money it would be nice, but there are hundreds of more worthwhile infrastructure projects (including ROADS) that are further up the queue.

Sorry if I'm being harsh, but I think it needs saying.

Why not concentrate on more realistic targets such as electrificatino and 125 mph upgrade of the Bham to Bristol line? You could cut the Cheltenham to Bham journey time to about 30 minutes.

BTLine has hit the nail right on the head. We keep hearing about hundreds of ideas for re-opening old rail lines. Most would never get pass the value for money assessment and apart from the costs of reinstatement of such lines, would require massive public subsidy to keep them operating which is just not available within the current financial provisions.

totally agree. cf BML2 in Sussex - tunnel through South London to Canary Wharf? Yeah, right.

Yeah, pah! Next thing someone will suggest spending ^16BN on a tunnel from Paddington to Abbey Wood! Dream on..!

it'll carry far more pax than BML2 which'll cost more....

The BML2 campaign estimate ^315M for the Sussex phase, including Ashcombe Tunnel. Maybe the true cost would be three times that figure.

I can't find cost estimates for the London phase (do you have them?), but isn't that kind of tied up with Crossrail 3?

I've seen no mention of CRossrail3 on the BML2 website....does Crossrail3 even exist as more than a bright idea yet?

Agreed about the cost estimate being atrociously wrong....they don't seem keen on getting the Grip reports done (even to level 3!)

Crossrail 3 is referred to in passing here, near the foot of the page (http://www.bml2.co.uk/the-news.html). I think it is fair to say that it is more of a concept than a plan, but it seems to cover similar ground to the 'London phase' of BML2.

If you weren't factoring in the London phase, then I'm a bit confused as to why you say that BML2 would cost more than Crossrail.

I was....

I meant that BML2 make no tie-up with Crossrail3, which you think they would do to bring down the cost of their pet project....

The London section stands no chance in our lifetime, methinks - and the DfT advisor is right, the number of pax in Canary Wharf is a small % of those working in Central London, and thus the cost benefit won't get to the heights required to get built....

BML2 is further up the queue than Chelt to Kingham, but it's got a flaw. The big problem with BML2 is that it doesn't serve the West End and City.
Changing at Canary Wharf/Stratford to Crossrail/Jubilee/Central line doesn't cut it - those lines are/will be full.

What's needed in South London is either a Crossrail style tunnel to take stoppers off the main lines, giving a 4 fast tracks to London, or a set of express tunnels from London Bridge to Purley.

Of course, that's DECADES away as Crossrail 2 is next (and it's debatable if we can afford it at the same time as HS2!)

Agree with Btline that Cheltenham Kingham is a non starter, only slighly higher thatn teh Windosr Link!

Re South London and the tunnels. I would have thought on street trams would be the answer for local traffic good way of getting cars off the roads

Here's a good analogy: