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Journey by Journey => TransWilts line => Topic started by: Kim on April 29, 2013, 19:16:25



Title: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on April 29, 2013, 19:16:25
FGW are an absolute shambles. 18:30 from Bristol (timed to connect with the 19:02 from Chippenham to Melksham) 22 mins late, so the connection will be missed. Due to circumstances at work today, I'm on the 18:49 from Bristol which is timed to connect to the 19:38 from Trowbridge to Melksham. These are the only trains to Melksham, and FGW then hold us up to let out the delayed 18:30, which has no chance of making the connection anyway. Now we're very unlikely to make ours because of that. What is the point FGW?! The amount of money they have cost me on top of my season ticket over the last 9 and a half months is ridiculous.

Graham, or anyone on that train who is reading this, please get them to hold the 19:38!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on April 29, 2013, 19:21:05
Based on current running you still have a chance... your train is due in to Trowbridge at 19:34 so you should make the 19:38 with some nifty footwork.  Fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on April 29, 2013, 19:26:17
I can see an attempt to cross the bridge as fast as I can ending in the doors being closed in my face (again.) I'm disabled so I need longer to get over that bridge.

Just managed to track down the conductor. HST's take priority over these trains as a rule. Why?! That's potentially 2 sets of people with no train home instead of 1.

Relying on the mercy of someone at Westbury to hold the train. Judging by past experiences of FGW, not hopeful.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on April 29, 2013, 19:40:27
Made it! Phew!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: swrural on April 29, 2013, 19:52:28
How exciting Kim, almost like being there myself. ;D

The problem of course is the frequency (is that the right word?) of trains along the Melksham line.

GrahamE is on the case.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: John R on April 29, 2013, 19:56:18
FGW are an absolute shambles. 18:30 from Bristol (timed to connect with the 19:02 from Chippenham to Melksham) 22 mins late, so the connection will be missed. Due to circumstances at work today, I'm on the 18:49 from Bristol which is timed to connect to the 19:38 from Trowbridge to Melksham. These are the only trains to Melksham, and FGW then hold us up to let out the delayed 18:30, which has no chance of making the connection anyway. Now we're very unlikely to make ours because of that. What is the point FGW?! The amount of money they have cost me on top of my season ticket over the last 9 and a half months is ridiculous.

Graham, or anyone on that train who is reading this, please get them to hold the 19:38!

I'd have thought it's a reasonable call to delay the 1849 by 3 minutes, else the 1830 will be stuck behind it (as the 1849 calls at Keynsham and Oldfield Park), and thus lose another 6 or 7 minutes.  I'm not sure they'll have considered the fact that the connection at Chippenham is already lost in making that decision.

Why have they cost you money on top of the season ticket? If a booked connection is missed FGW have an obligation to get you back to Melksham.

 


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: swrural on April 29, 2013, 20:57:41
I agree with John R, especially his last sentence.  In any case, FGW should be looking after its Melksham pax like the king and queen.  Once it gets around (hopefully reported in the local press) that, due to the lack of frequency, FGW is pulling out all the stops to get pax home or to work, at no expense to the pax, then the prospects for the more frequent service become rosier.

Success breeds success, go for it FGW!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on April 29, 2013, 21:23:12
It was nearer a 10 minute delay at one point. The train that we waited for was at least 22 mins late - I would have thought it better to delay 1 set of passengers rather than 2.

Delays on the TransWilts which would result in missed connections and my being late for work. The earliest train back into Melksham is at 7:11 in the evening. I finish work at 4:15. It would send me insane if I waited for the Melksham train every day.

First must love this setup - I would say that more people end their journeys early at Trowbridge/Chippenham than wait for the Melksham connection in the evening. Some of those are then paying out for the bus.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on April 29, 2013, 21:36:32
The amount of money they have cost me on top of my season ticket over the last 9 and a half months is ridiculous.

Graham, or anyone on that train who is reading this, please get them to hold the 19:38!

Sorry Kim - I was on the train from Swindon in the en; back from Farnborough the other way round (and not online from the train, so didn't see your message).  Just home now after meeting.

If FGW sell you a season Melksham to Bristol and you present yourself at Bristol in time to get the schedued connection, they are (as I understand it) obliged to get you there.   If a connection fails and there isn't another train in 2 hours or less, then it's road transport at their cost.    That's the theory - see my experience at Chippenham last week when I ended up in a taxi at my expense.   I'm not a great fusser / militant; perhaps we should be ...

I'm on the early train again in the morning .. catch up then!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: John R on April 29, 2013, 21:59:33
It was nearer a 10 minute delay at one point. The train that we waited for was at least 22 mins late - I would have thought it better to delay 1 set of passengers rather than 2.


6 minutes late at Keynsham and Oldfield Park, reducing to 5 minutes thereafter. I still think this was the correct decision, as it didn't result in any missed connections of the service you were on.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2013, 07:03:05
Wasn't sure where to put this...

Further to Graham's encouragement, I posed my situation to the conductor on the 7:11 into Melksham yesterday. They asked for it (dialogue below)

Conductor: You're on this service most nights, aren't you?
Me: I try not to be to be honest, I finish work at 4:15
Conductor (looks at his watch and then looks at me like I'm mad.)
Me: This is the first train
Conductor: You could get off at Trowbridge
Me: I tried that but the fuel bill was going through the roof
Conductor: You could get a bus connection
Me: It's ^4 for a single, 50% on top of my daily train fare*

*I've just done the maths again, worse than I thought. ^1836/365 = ^5.03 a day.

Trowbridge to Melksham - 7 miles.
Trowbridge to Bristol - 23 miles.

That price difference really doesn't stack up...


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 01, 2013, 08:34:27
The pricings are all very silly, I'm afraid, Kim.  And there are some interesting relationships between the bus and train routes, and the bus and train operators, along the route ... which make for some very interesting thoughts if you start playing "what if" with fares, services and interchangability.

Tomorrow, we get to vote for our new Wiltshire councillor.  I'm judging our contest (Melksham Without South) to be - realistically - a three way race. One candidate's a taxi driver who makes what I suspect's a significant income from 20 pound runs to and from Chippenham station (there's another interesting metric) ...


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2013, 18:56:52
I'm at Chippenham, once again wasting my evening waiting for this connection. A FGW HST just came steaming through here without stopping. I bet it's gone for a diversion through Melksham to block the track up. This happens all too often at the expense of scheduled services. The train already runs too late, we don't want to be any later!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2013, 19:00:53
Just had confirmation from my lift at Melksham waiting for me that said HST did indeed go through there.

Sort it out FGW, you have turned Melksham into a joke.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on May 01, 2013, 19:03:11
Ironically I suspect that was an unplanned diversion. The line through Bedwyn is blocked due to a points problem so the 17:33 to Castle Cary, which was supposed to fill in on the Berks & Hants because of the closure nearer Taunton, has had to be sent via Melksham to avoid the blockage.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 01, 2013, 19:32:42
I'm sat in the 19:32 Westbury to Melksham - coming 'tother way.  Down Transwilts just arrives (5 or 6 late?) and we're on our way!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: John R on May 01, 2013, 19:34:08

Conductor: You could get off at Trowbridge
Me: I tried that but the fuel bill was going through the roof
Conductor: You could get a bus connection
Me: It's ^4 for a single, 50% on top of my daily train fare*

*I've just done the maths again, worse than I thought. ^1836/365 = ^5.03 a day.

Trowbridge to Melksham - 7 miles.
Trowbridge to Bristol - 23 miles.

That price difference really doesn't stack up...

But who actually uses a season ticket 365 days a year? Around 230 is more typical.

There does appear to be the option of combined rail/bus tickets to Melksham changing at Chippenham. Do these not work with a season ticket?



Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 01, 2013, 21:24:49

Conductor: You could get off at Trowbridge
Me: I tried that but the fuel bill was going through the roof
Conductor: You could get a bus connection
Me: It's ^4 for a single, 50% on top of my daily train fare*

*I've just done the maths again, worse than I thought. ^1836/365 = ^5.03 a day.

Trowbridge to Melksham - 7 miles.
Trowbridge to Bristol - 23 miles.

That price difference really doesn't stack up...

But who actually uses a season ticket 365 days a year? Around 230 is more typical.

There does appear to be the option of combined rail/bus tickets to Melksham changing at Chippenham. Do these not work with a season ticket?



I believe you are referring to PlusBus, which is only available at the time of purchasing the season ticket as far as I am aware. Can anyone confirm?

I am not sure that a Chippenham Plus Bus allows one to go as far as Melksham. Until recently (I think he's given up now) there was a passenger travelling from Melksham to Salisbury who had a similar issue to me. When he enquied about Plus Bus, he found that Trowbridge doesn't have it and was told that Salisbury Plus Bus was only valid around Salisbury.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 01, 2013, 21:47:09
Chippenham PlusBus only covers the urban area of Chippenham.

At the First Bus Customer Panel meeting a few weeks ago, I asked if bus and train tickets between Chippenham, Melksham and Trowbridge could be made interchangeable as they're run by the same company.  It was explained that this isn't possible because the bus is commercial and the train is subsidised.  Not sure I follow that explanation, as the daytime buses are commercial and the evening one subsidised, and I can buy a return ticket from Melksham to Chippenham on the bus without having to specify whether I'm coming back later in the day (commercial) or evening (subsidised).

I know there used to be an arrangement whereby if the 19:01 Melksham train was cancelled and passengers from Swindon turned up on the 19:14 arrival, the statin staff would sensibly get the bus at 19:22 to take them rather than using taxis.  Not sure how that worked.   Now that the bus leaves at 19:16, and the train is usually a few minutes late, this isn't an option as the bus pulls out as the train approaches the station.  I've had a lift from CPM twice in recent weeks and the bus left a few seconds before the train on both ... on a third occasion I think it happened too - train a bit late, no sign of the bus, and I took a 20 pound taxi.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 01, 2013, 21:51:48
At the First Bus Customer Panel meeting a few weeks ago, I asked if bus and train tickets between Chippenham, Melksham and Trowbridge could be made interchangeable as they're run by the same company.  It was explained that this isn't possible because the bus is commercial and the train is subsidised.

Posting in an impartial and dispassionate capacity: I think they were simply and blatantly trying to fob you off.  :o


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: John R on May 01, 2013, 21:55:42
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/bristol_bath/tickets/bus_rail/combined.php

No, not PlusBus. This link seems to imply that a combined ticket is available from Chippenham to Melksham.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 01, 2013, 22:57:38
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/bristol_bath/tickets/bus_rail/combined.php

No, not PlusBus. This link seems to imply that a combined ticket is available from Chippenham to Melksham.

It's probably worth asking a bit more about those.   I'll let you know what I can find out!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Southern Stag on May 02, 2013, 00:20:36
It's a bus add on fare, allows bus travel on the 234 from Chippenham to Melksham. The price is ^3.30 single, ^5.30 return, ^32.30 7 day, ^116.30 monthly, ^1163.00 annual. Tickets would be sold from your origin to Melksham Bus, with the ticket valid for train travel from your origin to Chippenham then onwards by bus to Melksham. Fares are also available in the opposite direction but would have to be purchased in advance. The combined ticket has to be bought all at once when purchasing your ticket, asking for Melksham Bus as the destination.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: JayMac on May 02, 2013, 00:31:29
As an example:

http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=PAD&dest=XBO&rlc=%20%20%20

Do note that there are only selected through fares in the system. Nothing beyond Paddington for example. And only the main InterCity stops to Paddington are included. If no through fare exists then separate tickets need to be issued. e.g. Melksham Bus - Chippenham and Chippenham - Berney Arms.

The separate add-on Day Single/Return is also Railcard discountable for those who have one.

Also, if there is no through fare you can't buy a separate period return add-on. It would have to be two Day Singles.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 02, 2013, 05:40:40
Having another look, and looking at the prices, I suspect that the bus add-on ticket adds to a train journey - in other words the 16.10 anytime day return from BRI (Bristol Temple Meads) to XBO (Melksham Bus) would not be valid for journeys from BRI to MKM (Melksham Railway Station) .  And even if it is interchangeable in the way we want, it's very expensive in comparison to the 10.60 anytime day return purely by train.

http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=BRI&dest=XBO&rlc=%20%20%20


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: eightf48544 on May 02, 2013, 06:59:25
Graham afraid you are flogging a dead horse with integrating of  bus and train fares. Treasury doctrine says buses compete with trains and both should be commercial. Unless the legislation has changed bus companies aren't allowed to cross subsidise services (original Bus Wars deregulation) so that an evening bus can't be subsidise by a profitable day time service even on the same route.

The fact that interchangable tickets between rail and bus between Melksham and Chippenham/Trowbridge would probably increase revenue doesn't come into the equation.

Interesting that there is full integration in London with Oyster. Look how useage has increased particularly on the Overground.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2013, 07:08:08
Graham,

According to JourneyCheck and FGW Journey Check, the train that we were just waiting for that was on time/06:40 whatever/delayed/cancelled is not even cancelled!! Just about to get to Trowbridge and see what it says there.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2013, 07:21:31
Not even cancelled. Could you share that picture of the cancelled on the board please Graham? I'm going to send FGW a complaint accompanied by a bill for the petrol. They probably won't pay it even though it was only wasted due to their misinformation, but it's worth a go.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2013, 07:28:08
The TransWilts left Trowbridge at 7:18, 31 mins late. Could have got that, connected onto the 7:24 and still got to work by 9. Petrol wasted for no reason, thanks FGW.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: BandHcommuter on May 02, 2013, 09:31:51
Graham afraid you are flogging a dead horse with integrating of  bus and train fares.

Although First appear to have managed some sort of fares integration in the Bristol/Bath area http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/bristol_bath/tickets/bus_rail/freedom.php (http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/bristol_bath/tickets/bus_rail/freedom.php), so it must be possible in principle, and it would be very useful on routes where train or bus does not provide sufficient frequency . I wonder if the real barrier is simply the perceived complexity of the commercial and revenue allocation arrangements (even between bus and train operators sharing a parent company), and it is just considered too difficult in respect of the scale of benefits, and in the context of other management priorities?


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on May 02, 2013, 09:41:47
Of little comfort to the passenger waiting on the station but both last night's and this morning's root causes were not the fault of FGW.  A points failure at Bedwyn effectively blocked the line from Newbury to the west forcing trains to be diverted via Swindon/Melksham while this morning a freight train got into difficulties on the single line.  The train from Gloucester to Melksham and on to Southampton was sitting on the main line waiting for the branch to become free and was about to be sent on towards Bath to reach Trowbridge when the freight train got on the move and cleared the line.  As a result of all that it held up the morning South Wales service which goes via Bristol Temple Meads.

One of the problems Melksham has is it is in a "black hole" when it comes to railway reporting systems.  The times of trains calling or passing are not sent back to the Live Departure boards - hence the "no report" you often see.  This also means that if a train is delayed after Chippenham or Trowbridge (depending on the direction it is going) the problem is not picked up until it reaches the next reporting point after Melksham.

Now whether there is anyway an audible message can be broadcast from the help point to alert those on the platform I don't know but it might be worth investigating.  However it then falls to someone to actually send the message and whether that would be FGW or Network Rail I wouldn't like to guess.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 02, 2013, 09:54:12
My log ....

I arrived at Melksham station at 06:30 for the 06:38 to Westbury, arriving there (planned) at 06:55 to catch the 07:01 to London - arrival 08:38 into Paddington, taxi to my place of work today for around 09:00.  The information point showed "on time" on its display.

At 06:34, a freight train passed through, northbound, and as the line is single track I (and six others waiting on the platform) were concerned that the southbound train we were waiting for would be late, and various connections missed.   I pressed the information button on the help point, and was informed by the person I spoke to that the 06:38 was only one minute late, and I would make the connection.

06:38 and 06:39 came and went, and the train did not appear.  The information point still showed "on time".

At 06:50, still showing "on time", I called again and was told that the train was 15 minutes late.  As I spoke to the person on the help desk, the display changed to say 17 minutes late.   He told me that I was unlikely to catch the 07:01 from Westbury, but there were plenty of alternatives - I could catch the 07:04 and change at Swindon, or the 07:09 and change at Bath.

At 07:00, the display changed to "CANCELLED", and three other people headed off in one of their cars to Trowbridge.  A fourth walked away towards the bus stop.  I decided to hold on, with the final 2 passengers, for the 07:20.

At 07:08 (approx) the southbound train pulled in!  The advise of the conductor ("should we get on this train") was that he didn't know about connections at Trowbridge to Bristol for the other two, and that I would be able to connect into the 07:51 at Westbury to Paddington.   I decided to wait for the 07:20, as this offered an earlier connection at Swindon from my recollection.

At 07:15, "On time" for the 07:20 changed to "07:24" then a few minutes later to 07:28.   The train eventually left just before 07:30.

For the record, there were about 40 people on the train when it arrived in Melksham from Trowbridge.  About half a dozen joined at Melksham. Some got off and about the same number on at Chippenham.  And I counted 47 getting off at Swindon - so the load was 47 plus anyone staying on board for the continuing journey of that service to Gloucester.  Also for the record, the connection into the 07:58 (Paddington ONLY) train from Swindon did "make", and in coach A where I travelled, about half the seats were occupied - not all that different to the density loading of the TransWilts train!

One of the other passengers for the 06:38 was trying the train for the first time today to see how it worked for him communting.  As the delays unfolded, hw vowed he would never use the train again.

Questions ...

1. Why was the freight train sent through in priority to the passengers?

2. Why were we told that the down train was only one minute late and assured that the connection at Westbury would be OK when that was not the case?

3. Why was I advised to catch the (late) train and change into the 07:04 at Westbury which would bring me back through Melksham, calling there again if I made it?   Would it not have been right to tell me to wait for the 07:20?

4. Why was everyone told the 06:38 was cancelled (and so people made other plans at their own expense) ... when in fact it was still running and turned up a few minutes later?

Credit goes to the crew of the late 06:38 and the conductor of the 07:20 this morning - for honesty.  Will it make the connection - "Don't Know" isn't what we wanted to hear, but it was correct - in contrast to other sources. And full credit to the crews for a positive attitude and being as helpful as possible with the hand and information they had been dealt.  And as we approached Swindon, it was good to be filled in further - that the connection would make, and to be told which of 2 platforms it would be on, and where they were in relation to the incoming train.

07:58. Swindon to Paddington, due 08:54.  Left on time from Swindon. Arrived Paddington 08:52 ... rushing now to start work 25 mins late. Not bad in the circs


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on May 02, 2013, 10:25:15
1. Why was the freight train sent through in priority to the passengers?

From what I understand and looking at realtraintimes it looks like the freight was either on the single line or very close to it when it failed.  Had all been well it would have passed through Melksham before 06:00 and not been a problem.  All the time it was either close to or on the single line it was going to hold up the 07:04 from Westbury so a bit of a no win.  Reversing was not an option so it had to press on - holding up the southbound service and meaning a late start for the 07:04 as a result.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: paul7575 on May 02, 2013, 10:34:58
Interesting that there is full integration in London with Oyster. Look how useage has increased particularly on the Overground.

Bus/tram and tube/rail/overground are certainly integrated on the same smartcard for payment purposes, but fares are not linked across multi-mode journeys in the way Graham is asking.  A to B on tube followed by B to C on rail including overground would be linked as one journey, but buses and trams are not linked in the same way.  And each bus or tram leg is charged separately - this is a regular criticism of the bus charging system.

So basically it comes down to bus and other mode charges being added together for capping purposes - but they still aren't through fare tickets as people normally understand them.

Paul


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 02, 2013, 10:49:38
1. Why was the freight train sent through in priority to the passengers?

From what I understand and looking at realtraintimes it looks like the freight was either on the single line or very close to it when it failed.  Had all been well it would have passed through Melksham before 06:00 and not been a problem. ....

That's actually fair enough - "one of those things" I guess.  And I guess you may have explained my question (4) too. 

But why such patently wrong information from the help point staff when it was patently obvious to us (and, surely to FGW staff in control too) that there was no way the delay would just be a minute.   And why the advice to ride down on the train (when it turned up) to Westbury and then catch the service back the other way, stopping at Swindon.

By accepting / following the first piece of advise, I lost the time in which I could have driven to Westbury and caught the 07:01 from there.  By following the subsequent advise, I would have been left at Westbury until ... rather later, having also missed the via Swindon service.    Is there an "if you don't know, guess" directive to call centre staff?   Would "if you don't know, admit it and find out" be better?


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 02, 2013, 11:09:48
From what I understand and looking at realtraintimes it looks like the freight was either on the single line or very close to it when it failed. 

The NR log for the delay says smoke was spotted coming from one of the wagons by a driver of another train as it went through Trowbridge, and it was stopped at Bradford Junction for examination - which meant a block on all other lines, so as 'bobm' says I think it was indeed not possible (or sensible) to send the southbound TransWilts service from Thingley Junction.

Interestingly, and something that might explain the 'Cancelled' information, is that Genius is still showing the southbound train as 'not calling at Melksham'...  ???


Edited to fix quote. bignosemac


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 02, 2013, 13:27:54
From looking at the app, the one minute late estimate I believe came from the fact that the train departed Chippenham one minute late. This didn't account for the way that the train was then held at the signal just outside of Chippenham because of the freight train.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Southern Stag on May 02, 2013, 16:40:15


Interestingly, and something that might explain the 'Cancelled' information, is that Genius is still showing the southbound train as 'not calling at Melksham'...  ???

Seems the Melksham stop was only 'cancelled' for 3 minutes before it was reinstated again.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 02, 2013, 18:57:58


Interestingly, and something that might explain the 'Cancelled' information, is that Genius is still showing the southbound train as 'not calling at Melksham'...  ???

Seems the Melksham stop was only 'cancelled' for 3 minutes before it was reinstated again.

Maybe ... we were waiting there and it flipped from "18 late" I think to Cancelled.  We all looked for backup alternatives, and it had disappeared off the screen by the following time I looked.  That was probably about five minutes, and the next train showing was the 07:20.     The first I knew of it running after all was the two tone horn ... and I commented to one of the others "oh no - not another freight.  How late will that make the 07:20".

It might be only three minutes to some people, but it's a twelve hour gap signalled to other.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2013, 07:10:38
Enquired about the reason for today's fiasco and was told that they had a problem getting their onboard communicator to work as it's new, and they can't leave without it being operational.

Perhaps some more training in advance? Or why not stay with the previous system? 'If it isn't broken, don't fix it' springs to mind.



Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 03, 2013, 07:16:44
Enquired about the reason for today's fiasco ...


"Today's Fiasco" was an 6 minutes late TransWilts, which drifted up to 8 minutes.   Enquiry person said that London connection at Westbury would not be held, and I would probably have to wait for the train nearly an hour later.

Can't afford the time / loss of customer face and confidence.   Drove to Chippenham (12 mile round trip @ 40p / mile = 4.80) and parked there (7.10).  And what was the point in buying a Melksham VIA WESTBURY ticket at a higher price when on both of the 2 days I wanted to use it the train was cancelled / delayed to the extend that I couldn't use the service?

Not a very good show this week.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 03, 2013, 07:43:21
Definitely think that FGW should be challenged on the timing of the 6:38, as I am struggling to see any benefit of the 'service' running at that time.

- There is only a 5 minute connection at Westbury. As a regular user of the 06:38, that isn't an unusual occurrence, but a 5 minute delay on the morning service never bothers me because of the point below
- I alight from the TransWilts at Trowbridge, to go onto Bristol. Trains are at 6:44 or 7:02. The TransWilts gets in at 6:47, so for the sake of three minutes, I have to stand around for fifteen.
- If the service ran earlier, the chance of any delays being caused to the northbound service by a late running southbound service are reduced.

I am not surprised that reliability is an issue when they run services so close together over a single track, and believe that the service has worsened since they retimed the 6:37 departure from Melksham and the 19:10 arrival to 6:38 and 19:11. The evening service is now hardly ever on time, whereas it always used to be.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: John R on May 03, 2013, 12:12:50
Definitely think that FGW should be challenged on the timing of the 6:38, as I am struggling to see any benefit of the 'service' running at that time.

- I alight from the TransWilts at Trowbridge, to go onto Bristol. Trains are at 6:44 or 7:02. The TransWilts gets in at 6:47, so for the sake of three minutes, I have to stand around for fifteen.
- If the service ran earlier, the chance of any delays being caused to the northbound service by a late running southbound service are reduced.

It would need more than 3 minutes to make the connection work. For it to be a valid connection it would need to shift 8 mins earlier (to allow 5 mins at Trowbridge), and bear in mind this would then require earlier departures all the way back to its start point at Gloucester. I'm not sure those that use the service from the South Cotswold line to commute east of Swindon would appreciate an extra 8 minutes cooling their heels at Swindon, just so that a more convenient connection is made at Trowbridge for the benefit of pax from Melksham heading towards Bristol.

Very often we see situations like the one you describe and think it would be easy to change. But it has to be remembered that fitting in services is a complex task, and tweaks like the one you describe can have implications over a very wide area, and to a large number of other passengers.

In respect of the reliability of the northbound service, there's over 20 minutes between the southbound service leaving the single line and the northbound entering it, so I don't think reliability would be significantly improved.

The answer for Melksham is not tweaking of the existing paltry service, but provision of a much more adequate and appropriate service. Which is where the Coffee Shop started several years ago, and for which we still wait.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on May 03, 2013, 12:37:22
It would need more than 3 minutes to make the connection work. For it to be a valid connection it would need to shift 8 mins earlier (to allow 5 mins at Trowbridge), and bear in mind this would then require earlier departures all the way back to its start point at Gloucester. I'm not sure those that use the service from the South Cotswold line to commute east of Swindon would appreciate an extra 8 minutes cooling their heels at Swindon, just so that a more convenient connection is made at Trowbridge for the benefit of pax from Melksham heading towards Bristol.

Ironically running it eight minutes earlier would make a more robust connection with the 06:10 train from Swindon to Paddington.  However as you say fitting in any change is a complex issue and it would probably have an impact beyond Trowbridge as it goes south into the height of the morning peak.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 03, 2013, 13:08:57
Ironically running it eight minutes earlier would make a more robust connection with the 06:10 train from Swindon to Paddington.  However as you say fitting in any change is a complex issue and it would probably have an impact beyond Trowbridge as it goes south into the height of the morning peak.

I've not looked at the train's Gloucester to Swindon timings and loadings ... but the Swindon to Westbury section was moved by a few minutes about 4 years ago to allow for the London connection, and the train now sits for about 5 minutes at Westbury, whereas it used to wait (I think) at Swindon.   There's a complex matrix here, and much of the traffic on the TransWilts section is to Trowbridge for the (poor) Bath and Bristol connection and to Westbury for the (tight) London one. There is also traffic joining at Trowbridge for Salisbury which might be reluctant to accept a further extended wait at Westbury.   Interestingly, lots join at Warminster and the whole train virtually empties at Salisbury.  Earlier into Salisbury would (I suspect) be a step in he wrong direction for people there if (for example) they are connecting into the Waterloo.

Have to agree with John R. ... it's really not about tweaking the existing services, but about providing an appropriate service.  Making the current services more appropriate by moving them by a few minutes is worthy of consideration, and a useful part of the whole picture


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 09, 2013, 06:43:50
My comments from the station this morning...

RIP Melksham, as I was the only person getting on the train. Starting to think that they've finally killed off the passenger numbers that they managed to keep despite a ridiculous timetable, by being unreliable.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 09, 2013, 08:32:12
My comments from the station this morning...

RIP Melksham, as I was the only person getting on the train. Starting to think that they've finally killed off the passenger numbers that they managed to keep despite a ridiculous timetable, by being unreliable.


I was really saddened by the gentleman we met at the station last week.  Coming to catch the 06:38 for the first time, it was showing "on time" a few minutes before due, then delayed, then cancelled.  "This was a try out ... and I won't be doing it again" he said; another potential customer lost.  It was a bad week - I made 4 journeys between London and Melksham, and three of them were very seriously disrupted indeed (missed connections meaning 50 minutes later ex Westbury twice, and the 17:45 which should have got to Melksham at 19:11 was backed up to Ealing and passengers go to Chippenham at around 22:10).

If you head south on the 06:38 (as I did last week), I got to my commute destination at 08:55.   Returning on the 17:15 gets me to Melksham at 19:46.  That's a VERY long way for a commute.  For Bristol / Swindon / Salibury commuters, they get a very long day indeed - I think I have heard you say that your boss comments that you spend too long at work, Kim?  So - in current reallity - the service isn't a daily commuter one at all, even though the intent of the specification by the DfT was to provide one.  And as such numbers will go up and down, and there will be mornings / trains where the loadings are 30 or 40 between Chippenham and Trowbridge (been on a couple of those recently), and also occasions - especially on the 19:48 - where there may not be a single person getting off or on (mind you, I'm always happy to see at least a handful of people even on that train - remember it's the "TransWilts" service and not just Melksham.

I'm away this week ... unlikely to make the 17:45 off Paddington on Friday, so it's going to be bus-scramble off the 18:00, wait until after 22:00 at Chippenham station, get a taxi, or call for a lift.  What a poor set of options to offer for people going home to a town of 25,000.   Perhaps I should thumb a lift in the station entrance?


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: eightf48544 on May 09, 2013, 12:11:07
Sympathies Graham, the Trans Wilts along with other services seems to a victim of some kind fundamental idea adopted by DaFT to the provision of train services. Provided there is a train (Denton) or trains then you have a service. The fact that at they are at times no one wants to travel or is able to use for a sensible commute doesn't seem to come into the equation. You're lucky you've still got trains.

The irony is that they dare not try and shut the stations because of the political fallout.

How much is driven by pure anti rail sentiment and how much by:

"We can't provide a better service to these stations because there aren't enough units (in their opinion) and or the line will need heavy investment (loop at Melksham) to cope with the increased traffic which would surely be generated if a better service was provided."

I don't know.

It's a sort of Catch 22 we can't stop the service but we can't invest in it either.

It's very disheartening but I don't know how to break the circle. Just keep up the pressure but even with Taplow trying to get things done  felt like at times you are punching at a blancmange.



Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 09, 2013, 18:52:01
And I was saying...

I'm on the 18:30 from Bristol to Chippenham for the 19:02 at Melksham. Had something to finish at work, so for once in a blue moon the timing of the train is actually of use to me. 7 minute gap for connection, already at least 4 late, and not even at Bath yet where the delays are usually picked up from...

We just had a slightly extended announcement about being considerate with the use of mobile phones and personal stereos even when not in the quiet carriage. How about they show us some consideration with a reliable service that is not a connection lottery?! No one travelling semi-regularly between Bristol/Bath and Melksham gets the 18:30 (booked train to connect) unless they absolutely have to. Always the 18:00.

Melksham can cope with an enhanced service. Even a return to the Wessex Trains timetable would be a dream come true. It can't cope with a service like the nearby mainline stations, but no one has an issue with the absence of a service at that level. Funny how back in February when there were engineering works at both Chippenham and Trowbridge over the same weekend, Melksham could cope with 1 tph in each direction between the two stations. Not that any of them made the Melksham call...


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 09, 2013, 18:56:54
Spoke to conductor about current connection issue. Currently running 6 late. "They'll probably hold it." Well they won't if he doesn't bother calling the control room to request it!!!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 09, 2013, 19:07:40
Connection made, but suspicious of more diversions at our expense due to problems at Reading...


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 10, 2013, 07:07:25
2 passengers... give Melksham a lifetime achievement award.

6:44 to Bristol delayed. Unfortunately we were a bit later than usual, both pulled up at the same time and I missed it. Why did they change the 6:37 to 6:38?! The number of times I've managed to catch the 6:44 is a lot fewer since. I can deal with seeing it cross us on approach to Trowbridge, but missing by the kind of margin I have today really winds me up. I travel this route every day, wasting 1 hour and 15 minutes a week on the platform if I don't make a 6:44. This isn't including the daily 40 minutes I have to kill in Chippenham/Bristol in order to get back to Melksham in the evening. Trowbridge is a small station, we do not need 15 minutes for a connection; might be more use timing a 15 minute gap at Westbury where there are more than 2 platforms.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 10, 2013, 07:34:21
"We can't provide a better service to these stations because there aren't enough units (in their opinion) and or the line will need heavy investment (loop at Melksham) to cope with the increased traffic which would surely be generated if a better service was provided."

There is certainly an element of that involved. But the investment is NOT needed for the proposed two-hourly service, and you're looking at a single unit.

Better information systems (and they progress quickly, and software works across the country so not really a TransWits cost) will be a huge help too, and a bit of thought and change in mentality to thing of the line.

Kim's experiences, which I echo, show the endemic lack of note taken of the TransWilts service's passengers - from timetables to top level to many of the operational team.  Travel on the 17:45 ex Paddington - the train that connects to Melksham - and the crew will tell you to change at Swindon for Gloucester, and for Chippenham, Bath and Bristol.  What's the point of Gloucester, Bath and Bristol being offered as you would have got on the direct train that's come from Paddington at 17:48 or 18:00 anyway.   But very rarely do they tell you to change at Swindon for Melksham or Trowbridge - which is an advertised, useful, practical connection.



Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 10, 2013, 09:05:26
If it's any consolation, the situation you describe here reminds me somewhat of how the Severn Beach Line was just a few short years ago - you simply couldn't rely on it; I never went to Montpelier Station without a Plan B. It seemed like the only people using the line were cranks like me, or folk who saw it as a good way of getting about for free. (Revenue protection? I once saw a woman genuinely astonished to be asked to pay her fare...)

Things can and do change, and the tide is in our favour.

Illegitimi non carborundum.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 11, 2013, 06:10:51
If it's any consolation, the situation you describe here reminds me somewhat of how the Severn Beach Line was just a few short years ago - you simply couldn't rely on it; I never went to Montpelier Station without a Plan B.

Alas, we never to go Melksham without "Plan B" either.  As Kim's posts show, and some of mine over the last week or two as wel, the need for backup alternatives isn't just a feeling of need - it's reallity, with three out of four of my journeys in the week before last pushed back to that second plan.

The seed funding and LSTF works that are budgetted, planned, should be happening are so important; it's more than just increasing the service.  Information, parking, better bus links, properly worked out connections are all crying out to be done, and a number of them are cheap, easy and currently under the control of a single parent company (First).   That may be a good thing - or it may be that a bit of competition would be good for all.

Quote
Things can and do change, and the tide is in our favour.

Thanks - yes ... I think so.  They had better change - otherwise I hold out little hope for Portishead, Tavistock and the like; similar sized or smaller towns that Melksham.  Just imagine a grand re-opening of Portishead, only for the potential commuters to discover that they have trains from Bristol at 06:15 and 18:45, returning from Portishead at 07:05 and 19:35, with nothing in between.

As well as Severn Beach, look at Falmouth.  That's got a similar population to Melksham too, and I think that's done rather well with the service improvements, hasn't it?


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 11, 2013, 12:42:26
Just been reading through some of the other posts, rather than having a quick glance/using the thread as a blog.

Yeah, my boss has been getting concerned about the amount of hours I spend at work (supposed to be 9-5 or any equivalent combination.) I definitely don't trust the 7:20 out of Melksham, so try to be on the 6:38, getting to work at 8:15. I should then leave at 4:15, but don't usually leave until at least 5:15 (or 5:45 if I'm fed up of the 40 minute gap in Chippenham and play connection lottery off of the 6:30.) If I didn't have a half an hour walk between the station and work (which I imagine many potential passengers don't) it'd be an even greater cause for concern.

It's a long day, but because of the change, it's not as bad as the Melksham -> Swindon, taking at least twice as long to get there as Swindon. Salisbury/Westbury/Warminster are the worst, because you have to go on the first train out and the second train back in (the second train back in being more liable to a delay because it's tied to whether the first is on time.) Westbury doesn't take long to get to either, so it's those passengers with the most time to waste because there are no other trains.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 12, 2013, 20:58:36
Apologies if there is a better place for these, but they made me laugh in this context. Sorry also for the Instagram links, I'm on my phone and in need of a new computer.

http://instagram.com/p/ZOUd3buBNu/

People forget about?! Let's not forget the TOC seeming to forget about a town with a population of over 20,000! I've also been challenged by FGW ticket collectors on more than one occasion for being on a Trowbridge bound train at 9/10/11pm with a Melksham ticket. Am I not supposed to have a social life because they fail to provide an appropriate service?!

http://instagram.com/p/ZOUkuOOBOB/

What more frequent service?! Nothing for Melksham, and even Bath to Chippenham has got worse, as I found when I had a 40 minute gap for a connecting train the other Saturday, and that was sticking to the exact trains the timetable said!

http://instagram.com/p/ZOUqYFuBOT/

Good plan, given the Melksham connection lottery of late. I think we could do with the stress relief at Melksham Station though!

http://instagram.com/p/ZOUv6VOBOd/

Our train? Run it earlier then, and stop charging us for the privilege of having our time wasted by the inadequate service.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 13, 2013, 07:11:44
5 passengers today, shocking.

However, sometimes the choice of words that conductors choose when checking tickets really grates on me. Just boarded a train to Bristol from Trowbridge with a Melksham ticket. "Yeah, no problem at all." Well there IS a problem, namely the insane hour that I get back at every night!!! I've seen this particular conductor before and he always says that to me, whereas others get "Thanks very much." Just stick to thanks will you, I don't need reminding of the wait ahead, because I have REALLY, REALLY had about as much as I can take of it!

I love my work and I hate the way this service takes away from that.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 13, 2013, 08:30:20
... sometimes the choice of words that conductors choose when checking tickets really grates on me ...

Yeah ...

Conductor asking a cyclist travelling from Chippenham to Trowbridge to move his cycle from the one doorway that's going to be used - "It's only Melksham". I know what he means, but it grates, doesn't it?


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 13, 2013, 14:10:49
The single door situation is something else that annoys me. They're now not so bad in the mornings, but when it comes to alighting from the train, that's a different story. It used to be that you could sit at the back of the front carriage and know that that would be the door that would open. Now it's more and more dependent on what mood the conductor's in, with the line of passengers being moved from one door to another on more than one occasion when the train is passing Leekes, because the conductor has changed his mind. They also have the horrible (for me) habit of opening only the door where the gap between the train and platform is greatest. One conductor then offers me a ramp. No need for that, they could alleviate that problem by being a bit more sensible with the door that they open. A 2 car train WILL fit along the platform. Might be extra effort for the driver to do that, but surely they can open both doors of the front carriage? It's not Avoncliff! Very often when coming back on the 19:47 arrival into Melksham, the conductor is nowhere to be seen. Are we supposed to be psychic now? It's very unsettling knowing that there is no train back if you don't find your way to the correct door before they dispatch the train to continue to Chippenham.

Anyway, in that situation surely it is more sensible to use the other door of the carriage? Saying that, if things stay as they are for much longer, I fear there will be no need for a door at Melksham at all!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: paul7575 on May 13, 2013, 15:37:05
One of the problems with certain rolling stock is that the only options are either one door or all the doors - indeed the 'one door' is usually just the guard not completing the normal procedure of getting out then opening the rest of the doors.

This currently applies to the fairly new SWT Desiros, eg on a 5 coach 444 it's either all doors or one door of the as selected by the guard, but you can't select some random number of carriages of a unit.  Luckily they can de-select a whole unit or two, so 5 carriages from 10, or 4/8 from 12, is possible - but oddly enough there's actually more flexibility in an FGW HST.

(However a proper automatic SDO system, like Southern's trains have, is in the process of being fitted which will allow endless permutations.)

Paul


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 13, 2013, 17:15:31
My understanding of the door opening in relation to Melksham is that class 150, 153 and 158 units do not have central door locking.  Options are thus:
a) Open all doors
b) Open a single set of doors
c) Open a single set of doors then open others manually

On a 153 unit running on its own, or a 2 car 150 unit, all the doors that open on the single control can be comfortably on the platform. But with 2 x 153 coupled together, or a 2 car 158, doors are closer to the carriage ends and - while it can be done - the stopping has to be very accurate. For a train of 3 or more carriages (any other 2 units coupled, or a 3 car 150 or 158 running alone), the platform is simply too short.

Most trains are currently 2 car 150s, and it should be possible for both sets of double doors on both carriages to be released.   However, for quite a long time, about half of the services were 158 units and the crews got into the habit of opening just one set of doors - a habit that seems to have stuck.    There are even occasions when just the very front (not normally in passenger service) door behind the driver is opened on a 150 on the way up to Swindon, and that's a fair step from the platform, and especially awkward with heavy luggage (often how I travel on Sundays) or with a bike.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: JayMac on May 14, 2013, 00:51:12
Today (13/05/2013), the 1844 from Swindon to Southampton was a 2 car Class 158. At Melksham the conductor opened the set of doors at the rear of leading carriage.

How do I know this? I was on board (travelling SWI-WSB) and took a couple of pictures of the hoards of people alighting and boarding.

Okay. Not hoards. Five off, one on.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/100_2107_zpsd2b04366.jpg)
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/100_2108_zps5e943277.jpg)


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 14, 2013, 13:33:45
Lovely picture of the inside of my hood.

More 158s please, I can actually get off of them.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: JayMac on May 14, 2013, 13:47:38
You were on board Kim?

Next time you see this chap (the one on the right) say hi:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/irregulars.jpg)

 ;D


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on May 14, 2013, 17:02:09
The one on the left is ok too.....  ;D


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 14, 2013, 18:20:20
You were on board Kim?

Next time you see this chap (the one on the right) say hi:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/irregulars.jpg)

 ;D

Yeah, I got on at Chippenham and got off at Melksham. I'm on it nearly every day, but not tonight...

Due to a fatality at Worle, the 18:00 from Bristol to London has been cancelled. I would imagine that delays will continue for the next few hours, so not gambling on getting the 18:30 with a 7 minute gap for the connection. If it missed, the delay is technically out of FGW's control, so no one can be sure they'll get home. (Can get a lift from Trowbridge but not Chippenham tonight.) Can't say I want to sit for the 40 minutes I usually do AND get home at 8pm by waiting for that connection. More additional cost for me :(


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 14, 2013, 18:25:32
You were on board Kim?

Next time you see this chap (the one on the right) say hi:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/irregulars.jpg)

 ;D

Yeah, I got on at Chippenham and got off at Melksham. I'm on it nearly every day, but not tonight...

Due to a fatality at Worle, the 18:00 from Bristol to London has been cancelled. I would imagine that delays will continue for the next few hours, so not gambling on getting the 18:30 with a 7 minute gap for the connection. If it missed, the delay is technically out of FGW's control, so no one can be sure they'll get home. (Can get a lift from Trowbridge but not Chippenham tonight.) Can't say I want to sit for the 40 minutes I usually do AND get home at 8pm by waiting for that connection. More additional cost for me :(

Edit: I know the 18:30 comes from Weston Super Mare, but the 18:00 doesn't, does it?! Isn't that an arrival from London sent on the reverse journey upon arrival? Poor service if so FGW.

Edit: Oops, accidentally quoted above. Sorry.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on May 14, 2013, 18:28:13
Apparently the set to form the 18:00 was stepped up to form what would have been the 17:10 from Weston-super-Mare but started from Bristol Temple Meads - albeit it left 15 minutes late at 17:45.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 14, 2013, 19:47:17
18:30 got to Chippenham at 19:09, Melksham connection left at 19:04. I thought they were supposed to hold the last connection. There is bound to have been at least one person wanting that train; will try to find out how the taxi situation went. They would argue not within the control of the railway, but it surely was within their control to take our on time service and cancel it to run a delayed service, knowing that the next available service was almost guaranteed to be late because of the route of that service.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: John R on May 14, 2013, 20:38:15
There is bound to have been at least one person wanting that train;

I suspect control were more concerned with shifting the considerable volumes of people that would have been waiting for the 1730 at Bristol and down the line than optimising the evening service for the benefit of "at least one person" making a connection.

At times like this evening, I think most people recognise that the rail industry tries it best when presented with a very sad situation not of its making, and remember that a family somewhere tonight will have lost a loved one, so the inconvenience we may have suffered getting home is put into perspective.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 15, 2013, 07:34:06
No news yet on what happened with the taxi situation last night.

Spoke to a semi-regular commuter on the line this morning and his point just emphasises the fact that the current service is of no use to anyone that cannot use flexitime in the same way that he can. Due to extra hours built up because of the timings of the TransWilts, he has earned three days to take off since Easter. That's to Filton Abbey Wood, having a longer journey time than the majority of passengers who do use the line.

Can't see where the improvement will come though; as Grahame said above, passengers who would be prepared to schedule their lives around the current timings are put off by the fact that they can't travel without a Plan B. This is why I always take someone with me to the station and never leave the car there.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 15, 2013, 17:48:36
... Due to extra hours built up because of the timings of the TransWilts, he has earned three days to take off since Easter....

Quote
passengers who would be prepared to schedule their lives around the current timings are put off by the fact that they can't travel without a Plan B.

I suspect control were more concerned with shifting the considerable volumes of people that would have been waiting for the 1730 at Bristol and down the line than optimising the evening service for the benefit of "at least one person" making a connection.

At times like this evening, I think most people recognise that the rail industry tries it best when presented with a very sad situation not of its making, and remember that a family somewhere tonight will have lost a loved one, so the inconvenience we may have suffered getting home is put into perspective.

The current TransWilts service is - let's face it - pretty badly timed. There's common acceptance of this, and there are a number of people who can make use of it even at the naff times it runs.  And that gives a clue as to just how many people could use it if the timings were decent / extra trains making for day return journey opportunities , and opportunities for those who may sometimes finish early or late.

First provides a service that's timetabled to meet the letter of their contract, plus an additional southbound service from Swindon at 18:19 on Sundays. They can be criticized, but not faulted, on the timings then have chosen.  However, where even this minimal service fails to deliver is in the journey reliability.  On journey after journey, something goes a little wrong, and in such a way that it will severley disrupt the travel plans (delayed journey) but it won't show up in the punctuality figures.

We all accept - I think - that things go wrong; we all have the most enormous sympathy for sad situations like yesterday.  And, yes, they will create an inconvenience which is "small beer".  But it's where this small beer becomes part of a pattern that it becomes far less acceptable.  The other week I did four journeys between Melksham and London;  3 out of 4 would have showed up as "on time" in train punctuality tables, but due to connections failures and long dwells en route, I was only within 30 minutes of my planned time on 1 out of 4.   Furthermore, I had to resort to "Plan B" and my own knowledge and money to sort myself out even to this degree.

1 journey in 20 ... even 1 journey in 10 with an issue; yes, understandable.  But more than that, and it gets to the point - not of being unsympathetic with some of the individual causes, but asking whether there's something that can be done to reduce what appear to be systemic issues.  And a higher proportion of journeys with issues would be acceptable with help and assistance available throughout the incident.  Even at Melksham, we have a screen.  "The 06:38 is delayed; please catch the 07:20 and change at Swindon for London.  If you have already purchased a ticket that's valid via Westbury, the train manager will refund the difference to a via Swindon ticket".  Or - on arrival at Chippenham off a train that's been delayed and failed to make the connection - "will anyone for the Melksham, Trowbridge and Westbury service please contact the booking office who will arrange a taxi, the price of which is included in your ticket".

I agree, John - the you can't hold up the whole service to maintain every connection.  But the railway should take responsibiity for providing the plan B and having that automatically offered to customers who have already paid when its own specified provision fails, truely dangerous weather conditions excepted perhaps.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 15, 2013, 18:42:27
Something you want to watch on TV? Guess the usual practice is to get an earlier train. Not on this line.

I HATE FGW!! I already waste two hours of my time per day due to this shambles of a service, now I'm missing Coronation Street  >:(

I just love sitting here listening to the summer timetable announcements over and over. Guess they're not going to do anything remotely useful :(

HAD ENOUGH OF THIS :(:(:(:(:(


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: John R on May 15, 2013, 19:01:41
But the railway should take responsibiity for providing the plan B and having that automatically offered to customers who have already paid when its own specified provision fails, truely dangerous weather conditions excepted perhaps.


I agree, although I don't think the poster had any evidence that FGW didn't provide a taxi (not actually having been on the affected service).  So I feel that to complain about a hypothetical situation, which may or may not have happened, on a day when someone had lost their life, (which had caused the disruption) was a touch insensitive. 


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 19, 2013, 10:42:24
Just been shopping in Asda. Was coming out and a HST is heading to Chippenham. Can't help but think the service could be much enhanced if they just stopped every train that was diverted through here.

So the summer timetable commences today. Same old diabolical service. I read the timetable wrong and thought that there was a train departing for Melksham at 18:25 :(:(:( I wish.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 19, 2013, 11:05:45
and thought that there was a train departing for Melksham at 18:25 ....

There's one at 18:26 ... from Kemble for anyone who work near the station there.

Just been shopping in Asda. Was coming out and a HST is heading to Chippenham. Can't help but think the service could be much enhanced if they just stopped every train that was diverted through here.

Problem is that we need to know ahead of time in order to be able to make use of it.  We've tried to have summer Sunday diverted trains to / from the South West stop in the past; never succeeded - don't think the will's been there - requests kicked into the long grass, with "it will delay trains" even if they they sit for 10 minutes at Westbury, and "no proof that anyone would use it" ... correct, as it's not been tried!

However, I am sensing elements of change in a positive direction ... next Monday, 09:01 ... (yes, a daytime train) ... connection at Westbury for a nice day out in Weymouth.   Back at 19:50.   Affordable fares.   Even an extra carriage on Westbury - Weymouth for the possible extra traffic. See http://melksh.am/4080


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 22, 2013, 18:55:41
Have ended up on the 18:30 from Bristol. Looking like making the connection is unlikely. Anyone on that train? No sign of a conductor and no apologies for the delay, only the fact that there are no seat reservations!!



Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 22, 2013, 18:56:58
Sorry, Kim ... working in Melksham today


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 22, 2013, 18:59:52
BOTH trains running a bit late - you should make it. From live departures, Chippenham

Quote
18:55    London Paddington    18:59    2    First Great Western
19:02    Southampton Central    19:06    1    First Great Western

(Schedule, destination, expected, platform, operator)


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 22, 2013, 19:04:25
Thanks Grahame. Made it to Chippenham just in time; Melksham train showing as on time at the station.

For a published connection, the 18:30 runs too close to the wire too many times. I would go as far as to say it's more unreliable than the Melksham trains.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 24, 2013, 19:21:20
Feeling for anyone who left their car at Melksham this morning. The train now seems to be starting from Gloucester and running to Swindon, non-stop from Chippenham to Trowbridge and restarting from Westbury. Given that they only run 4 trains a day, it would make more sense to run non-stop between some of the other stations. Yet another reason why the Melksham passenger numbers are lower than they could be.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: JayMac on May 24, 2013, 19:38:18
The fault for today's problems lie with the weather following a tree being brought down on the line between Kemble and Stroud. Issue has been compounded by a person hit by a train between Swindon and Didcot.

The train was actually cancelled at Swindon. A separate unit is restarting the service from Westbury to Southampton.

Staff have been displaced, rolling stock has been displaced.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 24, 2013, 19:38:54
I'm very sorry to read about that latest problem at Melksham, Kim.

Unfortunately, there are wider problems across the whole Great Western area this evening, as discussed at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12460.0

I'm not sure that First Great Western or Network Rail have the leisure time to consider any such 'non-stop workings between some stations' when they are struggling to keep any trains at all running on some of the blocked lines ...  ::)


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 25, 2013, 07:43:54
There were all sorts of issues yesterday evening and - fair enough - things had to happen including the cancellation (as far as Melksham was concerned) of half of the southbound service for the day.

There are four factors that make this an especially sensitive sort of cancellation:

a) the lack of a following service.   The train after 19:01 on Friday from Chippenham is around 15:30 on Saturday

b) the fact that it's almost routine to have problems.   This one may be forgiven / understood, but where some thing goes seriously wrong almost every week (and by "wrong" I mean journey delays over 30 minutes), it becomes just another frustrating excuse.

c) the hassle and pushiness that has to be used to get an alternative from the railways where they've cancelled  service / failed to make a connection. For example http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12317.0

d) The poor advise given during times of disruption.  It's almost impossible to be 100% accurate at these times, but sometimes the advise ("catch the train ... it won't make the 07:01 connection at Westbury but you can catch the 07:04 and change at  Swindon" [suggesting you go out on one train and then come back, stopping again at Melksham] or "it's one minute late" when a freight has just gone through and you know it takes more than 5 minutes to clear the single line and have another service come back) is off-the-wall silly / impractical - the passengers know more from what they see on the ground than the people who are supposed to help them.

If an organisation fixes some of its routine problems, provides sensible information, willingly offer an alternative when it has already taken money for a service it then fails to provide, it will get a lot more of my sympathy when it's struggling with good cause.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on May 25, 2013, 08:33:03
Not TransWilts directly but an example of how it can work.

This morning's first service from Westbury to Weymouth failed at Frome leaving a potential gap of two and three quarter hours until the next. Some quick thinking meant a special service was run an hour later to fill the void and ensure a return service from Weymouth just after 9:00.

However to prove you cannot please everyone all of the time it meant sacrificing a northbound service to Gloucester which started from Bristol rather than Westbury.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on May 31, 2013, 20:01:21
Tonight, I paid ^5 to come home early from Trowbridge. Due to FGW delays, I was only about 10 minutes earlier than I would have been had I waited for the TransWilts. I can just about deal with them wasting either my time or my money, not both  >:(


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 31, 2013, 21:12:48
Tonight, I paid ^5 to come home early from Trowbridge. Due to FGW delays, I was only about 10 minutes earlier than I would have been had I waited for the TransWilts. I can just about deal with them wasting either my time or my money, not both  >:(

I'm sat at Paddington - 22 late into Euston with Virgin, so i missed the 20:45 which left from here on time by 1 minute. As that's the last train to "connect" with a Melksham bus, I'm now faced with a taxi bill ... don't you just love train travel!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: ellendune on May 31, 2013, 21:40:00
I know it would not have been the case with the connection with the last bus, but shouldn't FGW be paying for the taxi when you miss the rail connections to Melksham?


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on May 31, 2013, 21:48:36
I know it would not have been the case with the connection with the last bus, but shouldn't FGW be paying for the taxi when you miss the rail connections to Melksham?

Yes, they should ... although not the case, as you say, this evening.  Ironic when it's a rail delay that put me back an hour and First run the bus as well as the train.  Joined up transport would cost!


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on June 04, 2013, 06:38:39
Another one....

http://instagram.com/p/aICBbRuBEH/


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on June 04, 2013, 06:50:59
Another one....

http://instagram.com/p/aICBbRuBEH/

And causing a 7 minute delay ... I'm glad I'm not going for the 6 minute connection at Westbury this morning!

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/20130604_mkm.jpg)


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on June 04, 2013, 18:32:47
The connection from Trowbridge leaves after the one from Westbury. The whole 'service' makes no sense. The freight this morning was going in the Westbury direction, so it would have been worse had it been going the opposite way.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on June 04, 2013, 20:27:39
From what I can gather the freight was an engineering train which had been involved with the redoubling on the Swindon to Kemble project.  It moved from the work site to Swindon station but then got delayed while running round (moving the loco(s) from the front to the back to change direction) and left later than planned for Westbury thus holding things up on the single line.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: Kim on June 12, 2013, 07:07:23
This 6:44 6:47 business is beyond a joke now. Everyone travelling from Melksham to Trowbridge wants that train. Us pulling up as it is pulling out is becoming more and more common, yet we haven't caught one for a month now. It would have to be moved significantly to guarantee the connection, but we don't want it guaranteed, just something that gives us half a chance. I could really do with the 6:44 right now but that would cost me an extra ^5 in petrol a day just because FGW fail to run an appropriate service.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on June 15, 2013, 17:36:45
This 6:44 6:47 business is beyond a joke now. Everyone travelling from Melksham to Trowbridge wants that train....

Not quite everyone ... some of us want a more reliable connection at Westbury into the 07:01 Paddington train - that's not "guaranteed", but it is already within the 5 minutes to make it an official connection.  Sometime it makes it, sometimes it doesn't ... and if it doesn't the next train out for Paddington is "change at Swindon" - the 07:04.   Via Melksham again.  But your desires and mine are the same here, and I would love to see the 06:38 from Melksham leaving at 06:30, 06:39 at Trowbridge and 06:48 into Westbury.   Carrying on - as at present - at 07:01.

However ...

* Platform availability at Westbury - NOT a problem; previous service leaves at 06:40
* Others on the train from Trowbridge - ouch; there are a few who join for Salisbury, and they won't like the alteration
* Others on the train from Swindon - very few indeed / not a problem
* Earlier path from Swindon (at 06:05) - probably not a problem
* Being available to leave Swindon at 06:05 ... ouch; it only arrives there at 06:06 and has to reverse
* Earlier path into Swindon? ... this is the 05:19 off Gloucester and makes a connection into the Paddington train at 06:11 - ouch as to run it earlier would increase journey times for Stroud Valley to london commuters.
* You ask for it to make a connection *sometimes* at least. Alas, human nature being what it is, people will the want it to always connect, so - ouch - a couple of minutes change would lead to more people trying to make the connection and have it fail, and more frustration with FGW rather than less.

I even looked around and thought about moving the 06:44 few minutes later - and found another can of worms.

The real solution to your too-long day is a radical one - extra services from Westbury to Swindon at 07:34, 09:34, 11:34, 14:34, 16:34, 18:34 and 21:34 returning at 08:44, 10:44, 12:44, 15:44, 17:44, 20:14 and 22:44.  It would give you a commuter-time connection into Bristol from Chippenham, and / or a return train an hour earlier, giving you the choice of reducing your working day at either or both ends.  And it works for others too ... proper Swindon commutes with arrivals there at 07:48 and 08:18 in the morning peak, departures back in the afternoon / evening at 17:44 and 18:44, with 2 later trains at 90 minute intervals for people who have to work late.  It's a single unit with 75% utilisation during most of the day, and it fits snugly between the HSTs on the Bristol and South Wales runs.    The exiting morning TransWilts service still starts the day, and the existing evening one fits into the pattern.     From 5 p.m. trains are off Swindon with intervals of 60, 90 and 150 minutes - an ideal gradual reduction for later passengers.




Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on June 19, 2013, 18:34:52
Quote
17:39 Cheltenham Spa to Southampton Central due 20:48 This train will be terminated at Gloucester.
This train will no longer call at Stonehouse, Stroud, Kemble, Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Dilton Marsh, Warminster, Salisbury, Romsey and Southampton Central.
This is due to a person hit by a train.

The cancellation is understandable (problem reported to be between Swindon and Chippenham, and with south Wales services diverted too, via Kemble, it seems like it's between Swindon and Royal Wootton Bassett), but logged here as it forms part of a picture / pattern of unreliability.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on June 19, 2013, 18:55:24
Quote
19:02   Southampton Central   Cancelled      First Great Western
19:14   Bristol Temple Meads   On time   1   First Great Western
19:44   Weston-super-Mare   On time   1   First Great Western

So Bristol services running OK then ...


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: John R on June 19, 2013, 21:44:10
A fatality between Swindon and Wootton Bassett in the height of the rush hour (around 1700). I don't think it's fair to log it "as part of a picture/pattern of unreliability" of the Transwilts service.

I happened to be at Bristol Parkway at around 2020 when a passenger was laying into the ticket office staff, demanding to speak to a supervisor and, in my view, being totally unreasonable. I'm sure 99% of those caught up in tonight's problems were somewhat more philosophical as to their difficulty getting home.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on June 20, 2013, 13:53:36
A fatality between Swindon and Wootton Bassett in the height of the rush hour (around 1700). I don't think it's fair to log it "as part of a picture/pattern of unreliability" of the Transwilts service.

That's a very difficult 'call' indeed, John.

On journeys that are disrupted by a fatality, it is very much proper for the situation to be accepted that day as it is, with sympathy offered to all concerned, and the disruption accepted.   These are truly awful events, and make "I want to get home" shrink into a very minor matter indeed.

But - that's on the day.  And we shouldn't turn round an then accept the situation for the future.  There are hundreds of fatalities a year on the UK's railways ... and they have a serious effect on performance.   

London to Melksham journeys are sometimes fine.   But sometimes they get effected by train breakdown at Ealing, loss of power in a carriage at Swindon, person hit by train at Southall, overrunning engineering at Reading, freight train stopped for extra checks at Trowbridge, deer on line at Thingley, lack of crew.   That all add up and all need to be considered in the general picture.   And the general picture in review must look at reducing the number of incidents of all types that happen quite often (and, goodness, we all want that for humane reasons too in "person hit by train") and reducing the effect of those incidents.   For this wider review, I don't think you can or should exclude one cause.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on June 20, 2013, 14:42:00
Some quotes from commuters affected by the fatality in both the article and the comments below it in the  Swindon Advertiser (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10495814.Rail_death_hits_journeys_home/)


Quote
(http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/resources/images/2502589.jpg?type=articleLandscape)

COMMUTERS faced rail chaos last night when a man died after being hit by a train in West Swindon.
 
The incident happened on the line near John Lewis at Home at around 5.10pm as a Reading to Bristol Temple Meads train struck the man, who has not been identified.
 
Emergency services, including Wiltshire Police, British Transport Police and South West Ambulance Service, attended, but the man was pronounced dead at the scene.
 
A spokesman for British Transport Police (BTP) last night said the incident was not being treated as suspicious.
 
She said: ^BTP were called to the Kingshill area of Swindon at around 5.10pm to reports a person had been struck by a train.
 
^Officers from BTP and Wiltshire Police, along with paramedics from South West Ambulance Service, attended the scene. The man was pronounced dead on arrival.
 
^It is currently being investigated as non-suspicious.^

Trains from Swindon station were either cancelled or delayed by up to 90 minutes, with First Great Western (FGW) reporting major disruption in both directions, as commuters gathered on the platforms.
 
Stranded commuter Joe Collet, 31, a risk manager, said: ^m going to Gloucester and I^ve been here about 40 minutes. ^It^s a bit frustrating but these things happen. You just have to wait for the police to do what they have to do.^
 
Another, who asked not to be named, said: ^There were between 100 and 200 people all lined up on the platforms and there was a train stuck in the station. They told us they ordered coaches, but it was a long delay. I was waiting more than an hour.^
 
An FGW spokesman said the train had been damaged during the incident and was stranded on the line.
 
She said: ^We were working with Network Rail and BTP to get things moving as quickly as possible. There were no services from Swindon to Chippenham and there was a limited service from Swindon to Reading and London.
 
^Trains to South Wales had to be diverted through Gloucester, which added an hour to the journey.
 
^The train involved in the fatality was also damaged and was stranded on the line. We do not control the line during incidents such as this and BTP have to carry out their investigation.^
 


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on July 14, 2013, 17:39:15
Quote
17:20 Westbury to Swindon due 18:04
This train will be cancelled.
This is due to an earlier train fault.

Quote
18:19 Swindon to Westbury due 19:05
This train will be cancelled.
This is due to an earlier train fault.

So that leaves the 19:35 Westbury to Swindon as today's only service in either direction.  Connection into Elstree and Borehamwood (my most common Sunday evening journey at present) at 23:24 rather then 20:41.   Lovely  :-[


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on July 14, 2013, 18:34:58
Real time trains shows some odd goings on at Westbury ... the 16:58 arrived from Cardiff on time, but didn't leave until 17:19 ... perhaps that's the train that had the "earlier fault" and the TransWilts unit was sent to Portsmouth.  I do hope it wasn't a 153  ;D



Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: phile on July 15, 2013, 17:40:50
A 153 wouldn't have gone to Portsmouth anyway.   They are not permitted beyond Southampton.   An old debate, that one.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: JayMac on July 15, 2013, 18:02:09
What's changed since 1998?

http://railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/view/282515/PL


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: bobm on July 15, 2013, 18:12:49
I don't think anything has changed.  Judging by what I have read elsewhere a 153 has reached Portsmouth Harbour on one or two occasions "by accident".  Apparently the steps are out of gauge on parts of the line.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on July 15, 2013, 18:33:54
What's changed since 1998?

http://railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/view/282515/PL

I don't think anything has changed.  Judging by what I have read elsewhere a 153 has reached Portsmouth Harbour on one or two occasions "by accident".  Apparently the steps are out of gauge on parts of the line.

Interesting, the unit in that picture says 155304 but the title is 153304.   It's my understanding too that its the steps - were they added at the conversion from 155 to 153, so that 155 units were / are allowed to Portsmouth Harbour? 

We also know that 153 units can make it to Eastleigh (via Chandler's Ford, perhaps) and perhaps they're OK on from there to Fareham - it's the Southampton tunnels that are stated as being the problem.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: phile on July 15, 2013, 20:43:16
Not Southampton tunnel itself but further along the route.   People say beyond Southampton with Portsmouth in mind.     To be precise, they can run via the tunnel to St Denys, thence via Eastleigh and Chandlers Ford to Romsey.    The problem is the steps at the small cab end when converted from 155 to Single coach 153.


Title: Re: Melksham Connections
Post by: grahame on July 16, 2013, 05:12:27
Not Southampton tunnel itself but further along the route.   People say beyond Southampton with Portsmouth in mind.     To be precise, they can run via the tunnel to St Denys, thence via Eastleigh and Chandlers Ford to Romsey.    The problem is the steps at the small cab end when converted from 155 to Single coach 153.

Ah yes - so that explains the evening TransWilts service which prior to 2006 ran the loop - thus providing Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury and Warminster with a direct rail service to an airport.  Run every hour or two, this would be a very sensible / popular service (though I doubt the operators of Bristol airport would like it![/i]) - once a day in the evening, it was a bit of a quirk.



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