Great Western Coffee Shop

On Wednesday we bought tickets from the guard from MDN.  We went to BRI and broke our journey at BTH on the way back.  So that was two people four times through the gates.  Not once would they accept our tickets.  At Bath the gateman said he thought we had held them 'too near our mobiles' - naive fellow, he was talking to rural pensioners.

It occurred to me that it was the guard who may have brought this about with all his paraphernalia or is that just a myth? 

Its quite possible that the gates aren't set to accept break of journey tickets - a lot aren't.

Historically, the ticket barriers at Bristol Temple Meads consistently refused to accept tickets bought, only ten minutes before, at Nailsea & Backwell - so much so that the Bristol gateline staff would say "Don't tell me: you bought your ticket at Nailsea ... "   ::)

Just as well the gates were manned properly, although judging by the pained expressions of the Bristol staff, it was not unknown.  As I say, they all failed, not just the BOJ instances (is that a new abbreviation, I am so fond of them)?

Incidentally, (for another thread) we eschewed the 'champagne tea' in the Pump Rooms (^36 each) and chose 2nd floor cafe at Marks and Spencer at ^1.75 each for a delicious pot of tea and a shortbread biccy.  Charming outlook on the netted roofs of Bath (seagull plague) and real china, with lovely eastern european girls serving.  Also incidentally, apart from the guards on our trains, we encountered only friendly staff with mostly foreign accents at every single stage of the day out in Bristol and Bath, yes, even on the gatelines too. 

 

I think you will find 'BoJ' is already in our own list of railway 'abbs', at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html  ;)

If the barrier staff said that it had been too near to your phone then it must have shown an 09 code (unreadable) which means either a faulty avantix or a magnet has been near the ticket.

Thanks for that informed comment, vacman!  ;)

I rather think it was the first of those reasons that caused such a reaction on the gateline at Bristol Temple Meads - clearly, they had become aware that their colleague at Nailsea & Backwell had been issued with a dodgy Avantix.  ;D

I once read an explanation of why it is so difficult.  If you were to simply have a 'software switch' to allow break of journey, every ticket barrier line would have to be able to check routeing validity on the fly, for any pair of origin or destination stations for which there was a valid route through the station.  They'd also have to be able to deal with fare restrictions, because some tickets bar BoJ in one direction.

Because the gates are not clever enough to work out validity in the time it takes to read a ticket, BoJ is dealt with by someone simply adding specific origins and destinations to look up tables in the controlling software.  

Safest never to assume BoJ will be programmed in, and if it is, it's a bonus...

Paul

I must admit if I am breaking a journey I always show the ticket to the gateline staff rather than run it through the gate for fear it will keep it and then you have the palaver of getting it back!

That is always a sound game plan, bobm!  ;D

When using the rather expensive First Class All Line Rover not long ago, I was concerned that at one station (I've slept since so the name has slipped away!) the staff were being quite insistent that pax use the ticket gates rather than show their tickets to be allowed through. I preferred not to insert my ticket for the reasons given by bobm and hoped I wouldn't get any hassle.  I didn't and was allowed through with the staff operating the gate.  Now, if that's how I react to clinging on to a ticket costing a mere ^400 or so, how many people with seasons costing thousands are comfortable risking a grab by the gate in the peak rush?  Perhaps they are confident that the technology usually works for them.

Incidentally, I noticed that although Glasgow Central has most platforms gated, 1&2 used by Virgin are not and pax are held at the end of the platform until loading commences.  The loading of the long trains on a fast turn round was thus reasonably speedy.

You just have to trust it.  I know that if a barrier retains my ticket, I will kick up a fuss until I get it back.

I did have an adrenaline fuelled moment, however, when the barrier at Brighton spat my ticket out then sucked it back it again.  Fortunately, it was spat out a second or two later.  Surprisingly, the gate opened, which I didn't expect as it isn't one of the most logical permitted routes.

Crikey, Bobm and Brucey, now you tell me!  I'll remember that in future, thanks.  As an aside, how are pax supposed to know all this?  Is it easy for gateline staff to retrieve a swallowed ticket?  Can't they just open the machine with a key? 

Of itself it is not that difficult to retrieve the ticket but if it is a busy gateline and a couple of trains have just come in you may have to wait for the crowd to clear before the staff can access it, by which time of course your ticket has got buried by a few more in the bucket.

The ticket gates at Guildford usually reject my guard-issued tickets on the North Downs Line.

Most gatelines will stack the last dozen or so retained tickets, making retrieval easier. The problem comes when an incorrectly retained ticket goes straight into the hopper.

I regularly have Avantix issued tickets fail to operate the barriers at Temple Meads.

On a semi-related matter. Earlier this evening I had a rather moody gateline staffer insist that I put my ticket through the gateline even after I'd shown it to her and explained that I needed to retain it for a Delay Repay claim. She was even moodier when the ticket was swallowed and she had to retrieve it.

I've had lots of problems like this. Even with BoJ tickets as I'm sure you'll have read in the past.

I'm intrigued about the Gateline issue you had at BTH swrural. There are a few tickets that I purchase and use to Break the Journey there an 9 times out of ten, it'll let me out and back in again without drama.

It's the same at BRI. (Although recently, one particular ticket I purchase always rejects now; yet it's validity via BRI has not changed)

However most of the time I show the human on the Gateline my ticket and ask to go through the 'Wide Barrier' as I normally carry my tool bag and don't particularly like being eaten by the barrier :P

Most members of staff don't object to BoJ and some even recommend it during periods of disruption for a less expensive nice cup of coffee.

London Underground however is quite a different story I'd say more certainly often than not. On my last visit to London I had both ends of the scale, an excellent use of common sense where I had invalidated my X London ticket after exiting the station (on request) due to the ones inability to control ones bodily functions, found a karzi and realised I was much, much closer to another London Underground station than to walk back to the one I had originally exited from. I was upfront and honest with the chap who opened the gateline and could clearly see the logic I had applied, let me through and wished me a pleasant weekend.

The complete lack of common sense I had was when I hadn't actually broken my journey at all and for a change, bodily functions (Apart from maybe missing a directional sign) were not involved. This was at Kings Cross where I came off a Piccadilly Line Service, followed the signs for the Circle Line. Went out one gateline and around to another, ticket refused to let me back in. Spoke to a staff member who clearly didn't believe I had just come off the Piccadilly line and refused to let me back in. Asked to speak to a manager and was told the same. Then I asked that if I was lying could they pull the CCTV from the other gateline. The guy opened rather irritated, then the gate. :-X

Sometimes I think with these barriers it's very much a case of guilty until proven innocent. Something personally I am not a fan of by any means... :-[ :-X :-\

We exited BTH via the lift as, although we are fit, I have a dodgy left ankle and my wife has just done in her knee, the latter thankfully on the mend.  When I step off a pavement or a stairway, I have to be careful the tendon doesn't snap again, as it has done countless times (that is what it feels like anyway).   I suppose I ought to ask a sawbones if anything can be done.

So we use the lift.  At the bottom, IIRC, there was a separate small gateline but I am sure you, Trout, will remember the layout better.  It is this gateline that would not work, so perhaps that is the reason.  From the OPs' contributions, it sounds as though it is this advantix thingummy that may be problematic.  It can't be our mobile phone influence because , as I think I explained, our mobile phones are normally off, as, when we are together, there is nobody else with whom we wish, telephonically, to converse.

We use the mobiles solely to locate each other in crowded supermarket aisles, car parks and the like, by prior arrangement.

Incidentally, we find the facilities for pax at Bath first class.

I haven't yet looked into where MDN is (as per original post) but certainly if I buy a weekly ticket on board the North Downs Line service it rarely gets accepted by the barriers at Riegate even though it is an end  point. I also have been led to believe (on here I think) that the old gateline at Reading would let you out on BoJ but wouldn't let you back through within a short time (not sure what a "short time" is though:)

MDN = Maiden Newton in Dorset.

A gentle reminder to all. Please include the full name of a station at least once in a post before resorting to three letter codes. In fact, it's helpful to do this for all abbreviations/acronyms/initialisms.

And yes, I'm guilty of failing to do this on occasions. Do feel free to tell me off.  ;)

I feel a challenge ahead BnM (BignoseMac)

:)

FGW staff told me that the gates are programmed to leave a 20 minute gap before allowing you back through a gateline.

This is the same across TOCs too

That makes sense. Normally my morning routine sees me exit the gate line and try to come back through within 10 so I believe you are right.

Hmm.  At Bristol Temple Meads, if you simply wanted to nip out to WHSmiths (other newsagents are available, but not quite as close) just beyond the barrier for two minutes, to buy a newspaper and a pen refill to enable you to complete the crossword, you'd therefore have to haggle with the barrier staff to let you back in to the station?  ::)

Even worse if you just wanted to post a letter...

Yes, I've done that, too - in fact, on one occasion, rather than hassle the barrier staff to let me out and then straight back in again, I've reached over and cajoled some random little old lady standing there to post an item for me ...  ::)

What a nightmare it all is, I cannot imagine why we use our car normally.  All fun though.  Sorry about MDN.  I was quite proud of using the look up facility (called Google) so that I could come over all knowledgeable, but in this case I had not remembered whether I looked it up with Google or whether I looked it up in GrahamE's helpful tables.

I discovered btw, that if you put in three letter station codes to Google, you discover there are a lot a duplicate places on Indian Railways.   ;D 

It doesn't take much to earn a yellow card on here does it?   :D

A quick bite on someone's arm normally suffices...

It is for a logical reason though, it's meant to prevent people passing there tickets back to someone else and them putting it through to allow them access. With season tickets or Travelcards if there was no time limit it would work.

Hmm... not so sure about this. On occasions when I have to change trains I'll often pop out for a smoke / bite to eat / coffee. My experience is that it seems to be about 5 minutes before I'm allowed back in on SWT when using my all zones annual travelcard at Raynes Park, Clapham Junction and Wimbledon. At Paddington and Ealing Broadway I recall it was about 10 minutes before the gate would let me back in there. If I'm on a different ticket I'll usually approach gateline staff and say I'll be back in a few minutes.

Try it again... Def told its 20 mins on fgw. Other TOCs may have altered theirs since my info

I can't envisage who would do this potential fraud.  I break my journey and exit the station.  What nefarious scheme am I supposed to be getting up to?  I've looked back through the thread and I can't find the example.

As stated previously, it's to stop pax passuing the same ticket back across the barrier to let others out....

Thanks ChrisB.  but how can they?  I mean, if the first of the pax has passed through, then surely it records that, thus preventing the ticket passing through again until it at least has passed through in the opposite direction?

Also. all the barriers I passed through had to be manned to deal with the fact that they don't *%$$^_ work!
So how does this slight of hand nonsense work?

A fair point.  :-X

If you have a season, rover or a travelcard passing through twice in the same direction is entirely possible, and I presume the barriers allow this.

I witnessed today, on the tube, a sort of "passback" occurring.  Person goes through exit barrier, then inserts ticket into entrance barrier but doesn't go through.  Ticket passed back to second person, who attempts to exit.

It doesn't work as the passback setting on the gates has prevented it.

In the end, the person stuck behind the barriers decided to just push them open, after which two BTP officers stopped him and directed him to the member of barrier staff.

It is allowed, but the barriers won't accept this until after a period of time has expired.  There are some exceptions, e.g. at Waterloo, even though most platforms are behind a single gateline,  the barriers are "grouped" so you can interchange across the concourse to distant platforms.

Indeed, but putting a season ticket or rover through in the same direction twice would be logical, hence the need for the time limit.

When ever I have been out with someone on a Devon day ranger the first persons ticket will work but the second wont, also tickets from the guard or self serve machines are less likely to work in the barriers

I've read enough replies now to acquire the view that the 20 minute delay is bonkers.  Hopefully someone in FGW can see that too.   

Is it that much of an inconvenience?

Not at all an inconvenience.  Simply flash the ticket at a real person and they'll let you through.  Not a huge amount of hardship.

Unless the human disputes the ticket... Or worse... No human at all!

As I have ranted about in great detail in the past... >:(