Great Western Coffee Shop

http://www.suffolkfreepress.co.uk/community/community-news/rise-in-parking-charges-could-see-station-axed-1-4986896


ORR figures show 313,516 passenger arrivals or departures in the year to March 2012, which has risen from 237,297 seven years earlier - that's an extra third.  Sudbury has a population of around 12,000, with around 20 departures a day, spread evenly through the day.

My own comparison shows 11,330 passenger arrivals and departures in the year to March 2012, which has dropped from 27,446 seven years earlier - that's just 40% of the previous traffic.  Melksham has a population of around 24,000, with just four departures a day, 2 in the very early morning and two mid-evening.  Previously, (at the time of the higher numbers) there were 10 departures a day, spread early (as now), peak (now gone), daytime (now gone), peak (now gone), evening (as now). Car parking at Melksham station is free.

I suspect the success of a train service is more about the number and timing of the trains than about the cost of parking at the station - certainly my Melksham example does not support the Suffolk hypothysis that you'll boost train ridership by having low station parking prices.   You need trains too.

I tend to agree with your premise Graham trains before carparks. But the station still has to be easily accessable with or without a carpark.   

Re Sudbury could it be that if the carpark charges rise it becomes cheaper for some people to drive to Marks Tay or maybe Witham and park there and use the direct service to Liverpool Street without the change.

 Although at Taplow we have lots of trains every 30 minutes except Sundays! The South Car Park is usually pretty empty but there are a lot of cars using free parking on the roads. We get people come up the hill from Bourne End way as we have a better service.

Interesting hypothesis requires more research probably on a station by station station basis. Change at one station could cause drops/increases else where. In East West there was a discussion how much traffic Water Eaton would extract from the Cotswold and Banbury line stations.

To give an example local to me: car parking charges at Yatton were introduced, so a fair few Bristol commuters from there started to drive to Nailsea & Backwell instead, on the basis that the cheaper train ticket from here, and the free parking, meant it would actually be cheaper than using Yatton.

It will be interesting to see how the soon-to-be expanded car park at Nailsea & Backwell, combined with the introduction of car parking charges here, might change that.

A very interesting example cfn. Anyone with similar examples?

Be interesting to know how quickly the Melksham car park will fill up if there is more useable train service.

10 minutes before the first departure of the day at its current size  ;D

That's why - joined up thinking - the land just across the way (a brown field site, formerly the goods yard) was bought by Wiltshire Council to provide additional parking.  And I would expect and hope a reasonable charge would be made for its use, in part to help towards the financial success of the improved train service.

If I want to drive to Weston-super-Mare, the cheapest long term car park in the town I have found is the APCOA run one next to the station.  It isn't restricted to rail users as far as I can see.  This situation arises because the charges in the Council run car parks are now ridiculously high.  The car park usually has spaces for most of the day, so I am not depriving genuine rail travellers of their spot. 

Yatton Station Car Park is not expensive for occasional travel after 10am or weekends (^1.40 all day), but at ^1.00 extra in the peaks, a daily commute soon escalates in cost and there have been complaints from residents in nearby roads of all day parking causing obstructions.  I have noticed more spaces available in my last few visits, but this could be holidays or the general recession.  There was a time when it was very full on weekdays.

Neither of these stations, which I use quite often, ever seem short of pax and a suggestion that charging for parking in itself would close a station with a good service is daft, but like everyone else, I would like others to pay for the upkeep of the place I leave my car and let me have it for free.

An option available to local councils is to introduce controlled car parking.

It need not be difficult either. For example some residential roads in places like Kentish Town and Kew in London have parking restrictions only for one hour during the day - something like 10:00 to 11:00.

Residents could apply to have a permit at a modest cost, and even a one hour restriction during office hours would be enough to prevent commuters from parking, whilst without causing significant issues for the majority of visitors.

I too have parked in the very reasonably priced station car park when Tesco was not conveient. Plus i'd rather the railway got my money than NSC!

One of the reasons for Fishguard & Goodwick station reopening was supposedly the expensive car parking at Fishguard Harbour. Sadly openning Goodwick meant the buses stopped serving Fishguard Harbour, meaning the vastly superior facilities for interchange (waiting room and toilets) at the harbour are no longer available for connecting passengers, except perhaps one train a day when the buses go down to the harbour for the ferry.

But wasn't there just one bus to train connection available anyway at the Harbour?  As I recall trains were twice a day - lunchtime / early afternoon, and in the middle of the night.  You're saying that buses still go down to the ferry and connect with the daytime train there, so I'm not sure I can see that anything has been lost - or are you simply commenting that it could have been done more / differently with the interchange point of choice between road and rail being at the pre-exisiting station rather than the new one?

Not being local to Fishguard, I may be talking through my hat, but the Richards Bros timetable of local buses seems to show connections timed for the trains at Fishguard and Goodwick Station and my recollection is that the main road passes right by the station. I believe the trains serving West Wales have toilets so that shouldn't be a problem.  Since Google Earth has an old street view of the area, I cannot tell whether the council have erected a shelter for intending passengers, but that certainly should be in place now that the stop is more frequently used (I hope).

I intend to take advantage of the increased service so have looked at the options for arrival at the new station.  I hope I won't be disappointed.

At the risk of being relegated to the 'pedant alert' section by the moderators , am I to assume the train service to Fishguard has been cut by one tenth ??

Chuffed - one pedant to another: the train use is said to be decimated not the service. The title has nothing to with Fishguard - we drifted there.  Probably not an accurate numerical value on the word 'decimate' as you point out. ;D

 :o

To be fair, chaps, the word 'decimate' appears here only in grahame's heading of his original post for this particular topic: I shall therefore leave it to him to explain it.  :P ::) ;D

No need to worry Chris - this is an entirely good natured exchange.  Chuffed and I have known each other long enough not to be offended and for him to know I'm always right.  ;D

The  original article was entitled "Rise in parking charges could see station axed".   I guess I felt that was a bit over the top / unlikely due to the cost of closure procedures, etc and that it would be better to look at other places that services have been cut to bare bones as a comparison point, such as the one I used, or Brigg, Denton, Teeside Airport or Pilning.

It would indeed be rather worrying if the introduction of car parking charges were to see Pilning Station axed ...  :o

You are quite correct, the two bus trips to the harbour and back, timed to connect with the daytime boat train, were there back when there was one train a day. This is also the case at present, buses to the harbour for the daytime boat train / ferry only.

HOWEVER, the train service was boosted BEFORE Fishguard & Goodwick station opened, so a handful of buses were diverted via the harbour station to connect with some of the extra trains. For example the 7am Cardigan to Haverfordwest was retimed to depart Cardigan a few minutes earlier and gave passengers a connection into the 08:04 train (20 minute wait, fine if you have a waiting room which the harbour station does). Unfortunately when FGW opened all the extra buses to the harbour were removed, including that one which reverted to 7am off Cardigan. Now the 20 minute wait is at FGW rather than FGH and in my opinion is no longer a 'connection' due to the lack of facilities at FGW.

Different pepole have different definitions of 'connection'. By my definition, bus/rail connections at Fishguard & Goodwick are impossible (because I don't trust the train to be sufficently punctial to allow a short enough wait time that the wind doesn't freeze you). There are buses sure enough (except on Sundays), but some of them cut it fine and others leave you out in the cold for a long while. There are bus shelters, but bus shelters are hopeless against wind.

For your information not all routes pass the station bus stops (just outside the station entrance), for the St. Davids - Fishguard service in particular you need to go to the Tesco Express (it isn't all that far away though).

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Anyway, sorry for partially derailing the thread, I mentioned FGW as an example of a station being openned to cut the cost of car parking for rail users.

I enjoyed the diversion, Rhydgaled.  Thanks for the info which will be useful when I visit.

I'm doubtful about the effect of car parks, as each car space generally only generates 2 passenger movements per day (1 in, 1 out), although I like using them. By contrast, pedestrian access is reckoned possible within 12 minutes walk at 5km/hr, i.e  a catchment area of about 3.2 km2, or a population of about 12 000. Typically about 25 movements per year per individual seem to be a reasonable average, giving a typical suburban station figure of about 300 000. Bus link amplify this considerably.

To provide this equal access by car over say 300 days needs 500 spaces, hence my scepticism.

Incidentally, this method indicates how high Melksham passenger usage could be, if the residential area is compact and near.

OTC

In addition to those points about the numbers of potential rail customers who can arrive at a station by walking or using a convenient (an important word!) bus service, I would add that good, safe and attractive cycling routes will widen the station catchment zone considerably. As many stations (especially London travel to work area ones) have demonstrated secure cycle parking reveals a huge demand, which often results in the number of spaces doubling every few years. Of course, secure cycle parking is far cheaper to provide than car parking given that perhaps a dozen or so bikes can fit into one car park space.

"How did you get to the station?" - data from survey on a typical weekday, now a year or two old.  Unsure of sampling methodology - and data came with a valid caution (which I'll repeat) about not relying on low figures of under 100 in a sample, and being very careful indeed (to the extent of ignoring!) samples of under 50.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/tostationmethod.jpg)

Many thanks to Passenger Focus for this data / these data sets which have been really useful in generating thoughts as to connection at stations. And the figures do not disagree with other evidence, which is always good news in firming up ideas.

Very interesting figures.

Surprised figures for waliking are first but coming to think about it I walked to Taplow Staion for nearly 40 years, then walked to the Underground then to my office.

Interssting that cardrop off is higher than parking but then again experience at Slough watching the 19:36 HST arrive suggests more people are picked up off that train than have parked.

Wonder what Other is? Sinclair C5 or that new two wheeld stick thing that was supposed to catch on. Terrible remembering names.

Segway - see Segway boss Jimi Heselden dies in scooter cliff fall (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-11416654).  :(

Will never catch on here unless is it made legal to use in a public place.