Great Western Coffee Shop

Can anyone advise me on quick, easy to use, and preferable Mac friendly software for drawing and modifying transport network maps and their labels?

I'm wanting to turn things like this:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/mbusmap13_3.jpg)

Into professional looking, high res printable, easily editable diagrams.   I know we have at least one member who has done fantastic work in this field, and others who may have been involved to some extent too ... and I would really appreciate help in finding something that we can use for our local diagrams (which change on a too-often basis!)

I'm glad you asked this question, as I'm looking for a similar sort of thing myself.

I've produced a few transport maps using Adobe Illustrator (which can open .pdf files, in my case a ValleyLines network map and the London Tube Map and edit them). However, while this tactic is great with simple diagrams of a network, getting different lines that follow the same route to be perfectly parallel is very difficult and time consuming.

I'm often trying to explain various plans/ideas/proposals of mine for various transport networks, the problem is that with Illustrator it takes me far too long to produce nice maps, and a picture is worth a thousand words (ok, maybe not that many) so I fear my letters/posts could be too long for the recipents to read. Even if they read my speels, they don't often appear to understand my proposals.

I had just decided to start trying to learn how to use the C#.NET Systems.Drawing graphics library (<- programming talk, I'm a software engineering student) to write my own software to draw lines that snap nicely next to each other. But that also will be VERY time consuming so if anybody can recomend a tool to save me that work that'd be great

Sometimes all it needs is a basic image-editing programme such as MS Paint or GIMP. However, to get this plan to work effectively can take quite literally hours - the above diagram could take anything up to 2^ hours to make, and this obviously isn't ideal. Alternatively, with some careful pixel manipulation you can achieve such diagrams using MS Office at a much faster speed, but again it takes a precision that may just not be possible owing to timeframe.

I could definitely make the above map on an older form of Paint - i.e. before the HD graphics rendered edges blurred instead of solid when using the brush - in about 30 or so minutes, but that isn't for everyone...

Just a thought. Might it be easier to produce a paper master copy which can be scanned or photographed and then manipulated in something like Paint?

Drawing curvy lines in digital (pixals) is tricky.

You could contact Trackmaps who are just down the road from you.
Little Court
Upper South Wraxall
Bradford-on-Avon
BA15 2SE

Tel: 0845 300 1370
Fax: 0845 300 1375

E.Mail: sales@trackmaps.co.uk

Not if you use the right sort of program.

There are two sorts of graphics package. Raster and Vector.

Raster programs essentially deal in pixels. They might have tools that allow you to draw lines but essentially they just put down pixels that are then difficult to move.

Vector programs deal in lines and store that information as lines.

The drawing facility in MSWord is vector, but does not have many tools to tidy up your picture, but I would suggest you try that first. I have done a similar drawing by importing a scanned image of what I wanted and tracing over it in lines before deleting my scanned image.

You may be able to do a bit better in MS Visio, but I have never tried.

The ultimate Vector graphics program is of course a Computer Aided Design (CAD) package. They tend to take a bit of time to get the hang of, but really would do the job.  However, you would only be using a small part of the capability and so they would be very expensive.  If I was doing it I would use Turbo CAD, but then I already have the software (for other reasons that require more of the capability) and the experience.

I have never used illustrator, but I expect it should do the Job very well - it may be just a case of getting to know the software. 

I've had experience using CorelDraw and can't imagine it would be particularly difficult to do what you require.

Did anyone see the recent episode of 'Map Man' with Nicholas Crane that concentrated on Harry Beck's London Underground map.  Sadly, I think it's disappeared off of the iPlayer now.  As well as being an interesting documentary they showed the software used to alter the current LU map, in which Crane invented a new tube line.  Not sure what software package they used - but it looked perfect for your needs, Graham!

I had some success creating a quick public rights of way map for the town I live in using open source OSM http://www.openstreetmap.org/ plus a combination of layers and vectored lines using Illustrator.

It's not that recent: it was first broadcast in 2004!

I suppose you have seen this one GE?

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/draw/?zoom=7&center=50.944978,-2.612722&note=Yeovil%20Pen%20Mill%20railway%20station

I was looking up the environs of Yeovil pen mill and came from Wikipedia through Geohack to it.

http://toolserver.org/~rhaworth/os/coor_g.php?pagename=Yeovil_Pen_Mill_railway_station&params=ST570163_region%3AGB_scale%3A25000

I expect you know all this.  I am always the last to be aware of anything like that.

edit I zoomed in to draw path ways that i was interested in.

Was it?  Oops.   :-X

I came across it on iPlayer a couple of months ago, so assumed it was a recent programme.  Still, in comparison to the dates of some of the maps he bases his programmes on, 2004 is quite recent I suppose!

Graham, I havent the time unfortunately, but have just used ms paint and near enough quick copied 3-4 of your routes, which have come out ok. With a little time and patience (and a steady hand to get the curved lines right, something I dont have), such a diagram could be created fairly easily on ms paint. Assuming your requirement for mac would have a similar software.

I've just spent a few minutes playing with Openoffice Draw. It is possible to use "connectors" with some custom-drawn symbols to produce lines that connect "station blobs" on a diagram. The connectors come in several styles (straight, curved, dogleg etc). However, while it is possible (by defining extra "glue points" on symbols) to join two stations with more than one line (like District & Circle on LU), some manual editing is needed with some connector styles as they don't come out neatly parallel.

Overall review - usable but some up-front effort needed to create station symbols with glue points in the right places.

(I used a Windows version - presuming there is a Mac equivalent).

Lots of ideas, thanks.   I'm not sure which / whether any of them is going to work best.  I'm looking for truly High Res which (I think) means I should look only at Vector Graphics - the resultant diagrams may get printed out quite large.   And as I go from route data to position data, then from position data to pixel data, amending becomes so much harder.  I wonder what TfL use for their bus route maps at stops. 

The illustration at the top of the page took about 5 minutes on the whiteboard ... and I would love to find something that takes less than an hour to put onto a system - then is easily modified to add in extra links such as that Bath to Bristol Airport connection that starts next weekend, and so on.   Then come July we may see a shakeup.  Ironically, I spent much of the 1980s designing and writing exactly the software I want - kept me employed for the best part of a decade - but I don't think I've still got the old Fortran and C source.  I'm thinking of scripting an SVG generator ... but that's probably madness, and will probably have to remain as a thought until I give up a lot of other things or retire - by which time the technology will have moved on again anyway!

Further to what Rich said, if a Paint equivalent does exist I'd be happy to do it for you. I would also include all manner of things like corners and colours in a separate file which you could then copy for one to the other without the need to create them all by hand every time. It would just be a case of getting the pixels to line up.

My profile picture was made in this manner - but it is rather more complex than your diagram (which inspired the idea, so thank you)!

In fact, seeing as I have nothing else to do, I might go and do just that. If you want the end result let me know and I'll e-mail it to you.

By the way, what is the 402? It's not a route I (or Traveline apparently) recognise...?

Just received it - thank you.  Looks good but I'm out in 5 minutes for tonight's meeting so that is a first cursory glance.

The 402 is the National Express Coach - it's on the leaflet for the 403! :
http://www.nationalexpress.com/destinations/timetables/403.pdf

The leaflet shows Frome - Devizes - Marlborough - Newbury - on to London.   It leaves out the little hamlets of Trowbridge and Melksham which are also served.

I second the MS Visio suggestion... Used it before myself ;)

Visio came to mind for me as well.

Lots of preset groups of shapes and connector that can be snapped to a grid like interface. Many available for download (http://office.microsoft.com/en-GB/templates/results.aspx?qu=visio&av=zvo) not sure if rail industry/transport specific sets are available elsewhere.

I know it's not brilliant (it was made using MS Paint), but could everyone have a look at this and let me know what they think please? Also, if you have any suggestions for things that should - or shouldn't - be on the map, please let me know. grahame has permission to use it until he can get hold of something better.

The Pencil tool can be really handy sometimes :) The first time I used it for something like this, back in 2010, the work I was doing it took me nine hours - only for me to save it as a JPG :'(

Looks very good to me although I don't know the road layout of the area does one assume that where a service is shown going between two points that is on the main road?

For instance the 234 is shown going direct from Locock to Chippenham Town whilst the X34 goes via Notton.

Also the  rail line through Melsham is not sufficiently distinct from bus routes.

It probably needs to be supplemented with a list of villiages served and the route numbers. Plus timetables. This works quite well at the SLUG in Slough.

I would certainly be able to get a good idea of the bus I would need to get to a particualry place I've certainly used one of the Melksham Devies buses to get from the botom of the Devies lock flight back into to town.