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Title: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: SandTEngineer on February 24, 2013, 10:53:09 I know we have had a few of these videos before but as an S&T Engineer this one really makes me shudder. Just watch the two buses at about 3 minutes in :o :o :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfnPb80v6PM Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 24, 2013, 11:01:19 Thanks for posting that link, SandTEngineer - shocking behaviour indeed at Crawley level crossings. :o
As an aside, there was another example of some rather ill-advised behaviour at a level crossing in Crawley, discussed at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=7461.0 ::) Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: John R on February 24, 2013, 11:57:59 It makes me wonder why fixed high definition cameras cannot be used to consistently catch offenders. OK, there would be some cost in administration, but over a period of years people would come to realise that they cannot get away with it and that must surely enhance the safety of the railway, even if it costs a few million to achieve.
Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 24, 2013, 12:04:47 Agreed, John: automatic number plate recognition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_plate_recognition) ought to reduce those administration costs, too. The fixed penalty notice could be in the post to the registered keeper of the vehicle before the driver has even finished their journey.
Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: EBrown on February 25, 2013, 01:12:28 I did like the man at 4:10 who runs straight across the crossing and into the BTP Officer's trap.
Then the group of three who run into the same trap. Unbelievable that a lorry driver goes past a marked police/network rail van and still goes over the crossing! Some people! :O Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: stebbo on February 25, 2013, 15:42:22 Nothing surprises me about this. See the postings about the Yarnton level crossing incident in the Trains to Oxford section.
Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: Electric train on February 25, 2013, 21:54:04 Network Rail have produced comprehensive resources website http://www.networkrail.co.uk/safety-education/secondary-school-resources/ (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/safety-education/secondary-school-resources/) for use at Secondary Schools.
If any of you have children, grand children, nephews, nieces, etc at Secondary School it may be worth finding out if their School is using this material, if not may be the school should be question why they are not Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: swrural on February 26, 2013, 11:15:56 Did you not think that much of the problem caused was with the flashing red lights being turned on well before the barrier was lowered. It gave the impression (I know there is no legal excuse) that it was a warning system and not a mandatory stop signal. To my mind, for safety, it would be better to use ordinary traffic lights positioned a little further away from the barriers. Motorists are used to obeying traffic signals (which is what they are) and so are pedestrians. We already have a system of cameras available that can be mounted on top of traffic lights, so that is an additional warning safeguard.
It is no good saying people should be better educated or not be stupid because they are not and are respectively. The purpose of safety systems is not to catch out people for being reckless or stupid ( synonyms?) but to prevent collisions. Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: ChrisB on February 26, 2013, 11:17:29 Flashing yellows to start, turning to steady red just before barriers are lowered would be my suggestion....
Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: Network SouthEast on February 26, 2013, 12:02:05 Flashing Red lights are an absolute stop in law. Whereas steady Red lights just mean stop.
What's the difference you may ask? Well an absolute stop means you must absolutely stop. For example, emergency services can treat a stop red light as a give-way sign when responding to an emergency call, but they must stop at an absolute stop red light. Yes - that means that even the police/fire/ambulance have no legal defence for jumping the red lights at level crossings (or other places they exist, such as lifting bridges). Don't forget that legally you are supposed to stop at a yellow light (unless not safe to do so) so how anyone can think it is acceptable to skip a flashing red light at a level crossing is beyond me. Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: ChrisB on February 26, 2013, 12:33:20 I'm not sure that the theory driving test covers flashing red lights, does it? I mean testing knowledge of the difference?
Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: Network SouthEast on February 26, 2013, 12:45:59 The theory test could contain just 50 of over 900 questions!
I don't know what each of the 900+ questions are BUT level crossings are covered clearly within the Highway Code, along with a picture of one. Here is what the Highway Code actually says (https://www.gov.uk/road-works-level-crossings-tramways-288-to-307/level-crossings-291-to-299)... Quote Level crossings (291 to 299) 291 A level crossing is where a road crosses a railway or tramway line. Approach and cross it with care. Never drive onto a crossing until the road is clear on the other side and do not get too close to the car in front. Never stop or park on, or near, a crossing. Overhead electric lines 292 It is dangerous to touch overhead electric lines. You MUST obey the safe height warning road signs and you should not continue forward onto the railway if your vehicle touches any height barrier or bells. The clearance available is usually 5 metres (16 feet 6 inches) but may be lower. Laws RTA 1988 sect 36, TSRGD 2002 reg 17(5) 293 Controlled Crossings. Most crossings have traffic light signals with a steady amber light, twin flashing red stop lights (download ^Light signals controlling traffic^ (PDF, 82KB) and ^Traffic signs^ (PDF, 486KB)) and an audible alarm for pedestrians. They may have full, half or no barriers. You MUST always obey the flashing red stop lights. You MUST stop behind the white line across the road. Keep going if you have already crossed the white line when the amber light comes on. Do not reverse onto or over a controlled crossing. You MUST wait if a train goes by and the red lights continue to flash. This means another train will be passing soon. Only cross when the lights go off and barriers open. Never zig-zag around half-barriers, they lower automatically because a train is approaching. At crossings where there are no barriers, a train is approaching when the lights show. Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 40 294 Railway telephones. If you are driving a large or slow- moving vehicle, a long, low vehicle with a risk of grounding, or herding animals, a train could arrive before you are clear of the crossing. You MUST obey any sign instructing you to use the railway telephone to obtain permission to cross. You MUST also telephone when clear of the crossing if requested to do so. Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 16(1) 295 Crossings without traffic lights. Vehicles should stop and wait at the barrier or gate when it begins to close and not cross until the barrier or gate opens. 296 User-operated gates or barriers. Some crossings have ^Stop^ signs and small red and green lights. You MUST NOT cross when the red light is showing, only cross if the green light is on. If crossing with a vehicle, you should open the gates or barriers on both sides of the crossing check that the green light is still on and cross quickly close the gates or barriers when you are clear of the crossing. Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 52(2) 297 If there are no lights, follow the procedure in Rule 295. Stop, look both ways and listen before you cross. If there is a railway telephone, always use it to contact the signal operator to make sure it is safe to cross. Inform the signal operator again when you are clear of the crossing. 298 Open crossings. These have no gates, barriers, attendant or traffic lights but will have a ^Give Way^ sign. You should look both ways, listen and make sure there is no train coming before you cross. 299 Incidents and breakdowns. If your vehicle breaks down, or if you have an incident on a crossing you should get everyone out of the vehicle and clear of the crossing immediately use a railway telephone if available to tell the signal operator. Follow the instructions you are given move the vehicle clear of the crossing if there is time before a train arrives. If the alarm sounds, or the amber light comes on, leave the vehicle and get clear of the crossing immediately. Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: ChrisB on February 26, 2013, 14:13:11 Indeed, but a lot of the Highway Code isn't enscrined in law (although 293 does seem to quote relevant sections)
Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: Network SouthEast on February 26, 2013, 14:21:49 My point really is that it is in black and white that you must stop at flashing red lights. I've provided evidence to back that up.
There is no excuse not to stop for them. Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: JayMac on February 26, 2013, 14:39:17 And anything in the highway code that features the words MUST/MUST NOT in caps and bold is a legal requirement.
Even where the text uses the terms 'should/should not' or 'do/do not', whilst the particular action or omission may not be criminal offence in itself, failing to comply with it may result in court proceedings under the various Traffic Acts to establish liability. The Highway Code and all it contains should be obeyed. You can't pick and chose what you want to follow just because some parts of it are advisory. Ignoring those advisory parts could lead to prosecutions for driving without due care and attention, careless/inconsiderate or dangerous driving. Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: stuving on May 21, 2013, 12:47:42 Flashing Red lights are an absolute stop in law. Whereas steady Red lights just mean stop. What's the difference you may ask? Well an absolute stop means you must absolutely stop. For example, emergency services can treat a stop red light as a give-way sign when responding to an emergency call, but they must stop at an absolute stop red light. Yes - that means that even the police/fire/ambulance have no legal defence for jumping the red lights at level crossings (or other places they exist, such as lifting bridges). I saw an example of that last night at Wokingham Station. At about 0:25, I glanced out of the window and saw lots of blue lights flashing. An emergency ambulance was waiting at the crossing, which had its barriers up and wigwags on. It waited for half a minute or so, then crossed. Immediately afterwards the barriers came down and a train quickly arrived (5C86 ECS to Reading to Staines, so not stopping at Wokingham). So what was going on? Did the ambulance driver ask for clearance to cross, and wait for confirmation? I imagine they would probably use radio to their control, but might have got out to wave and shout to the signaller (it's too far for me to see that). Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: inspector_blakey on May 27, 2013, 22:34:58 Can't say for sure what happened in this case, but here's my best guess...
In general manually controlled level crossings (like the one at Wokingham) or CCTV crossings are operated as follows: a) Road signals start, then barriers begin to lower: this may happen automatically, but may also be manual. In the case of barriers being lowered manually, the signaller will press and hold a "lower" button that will first start the road signals, then bring down the barriers. If the signaller takes their finger off the button during the lowering sequence, it will stop until the button is pushed again. b) Once the barriers are fully down, the signaller will visually check the crossing either by looking through the window if the crossing is near the box and can be seen clearly, or by checking the CCTV monitor for crossings some distance away. c) When the signaller has established that the crossing is clear of people and vehicles they will press a "crossing clear" button on their panel/console. The signals protecting the crossing are interlocked with both the crossing equipment and the "crossing clear" button, and will not clear unless the red road signals are operating, the barriers are proved down *and* the signaller has pressed "crossing clear". d) After the train has passed, the barriers may be raised automatically by the operations of track circuits/treadles, or manually by the signaller. In this case I would *guess* that the signaller had started the lowering sequence but stopped it before the barriers had started to come down upon noticing the ambulance. Not sure how the ambulance was given permission to cross, mind you. I doubt it would have involved radio calls to their control and it would take a few minutes for ambulance control to get in touch with railway control and then the signaller. In the situation where an emergency vehicle with "blues and twos" is stuck waiting at a level crossing, there's virtually nothing the signaller can do: even if they were to throw signals back to danger in front of an oncoming train the system is designed to "tiem out" and lock routes up for around 3 - 4 minutes after this has happened precisely to prevent any hasty and potentially dangerous moves like raising level crossing barriers in front of a train that has just seen its signals return to danger. It's therefore simply a case of waiting for the train to pass and raising the barriers; emergency crews should havt the local knowledge to be aware of alternative routes round busy level crossings in my humble opinion. Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: plymothian on May 28, 2013, 21:31:29 An ambulance on blues and twos arrived a few seconds after the barriers at Paignton LC closed yesterday but despite sounding its horn had to wait the 5 minutes until the train had passed. The friend I was with at the time surprisingly commented that it was illegal to raise the barrier and pass the wigways.
Title: Re: Level Crossing Misuse Post by: plymothian on May 28, 2013, 21:43:40 An ambulance on blues and twos arrived a few seconds after the barriers at Paignton LC closed yesterday but despite sounding its horn had to wait the 5 minutes until the train had passed. The friend I was with at the time surprisingly commented that it was illegal to pass the wigwags even if they raised the barriers. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |