Great Western Coffee Shop

For various reasons I will be needing to get the 1803 from PAD to plymouth.  Reserving a seat not an option.

Does anyone know how reserved this tends to be?  is it the usual carriage E is an unreserved carriage? i.e. do I have any hope of getting a seat let alone a table seat.

Also, how long before 1803 does it tend to be announced / be ont he platform.  Plan is to get to Paddington early at about the time its normally in the station to get on ahead of the hoards

You don't say which night you are looking to catch this - easier earlier in week than later / Friday always rammed!

Get yourself the FGW & NR apps! Both tend to give you the heads up on platform number before it goes up on the boards. Oh, and wait on the overbridge - its quicker to access platforms from there with less of a crush that the concourse.

Um, I do, in the title!

Realtimetrains.co.uk also give the booked platforms long ahead of schedule

:-)

Just tying to get a feel for the reality of it

1st Class not an option?

You may be lucky and find there's a spare seat in the Pullman Restaurant for a Standard ticket holder, if you fancy some slap-up scran, but don't bank on it.

I have never tried it but I am told the Restaurant is at its busiest on a Thursday - the thinking is those who use the restaurant tend to go home earlier on a Friday.

Oops! Sorry.....
If its easier to use that website, feel free - but you'll need to keep refreshing it to get the info as soon as its displayed. Be waiting on the bridge at least 30 minutes early!

In my experience it usually goes off platform 4, and boards well in advance. Coach E is unreserved, unless the train is short formed, when they bung the reservations for the missing coach into E. This is quite rare these days.

The Golden Hind often leaves from platform 4, but do not count on this !
With a little knowledge one can usually determine the departure for the 18-03 before it be announced.
It cant* be a platform that is already occupied by a train advertised as going somwhere else.
It cant* be a platform that is already occupied by anything other than an HST

That should narrow the choice to at most two or three platforms, then look for the catering supplies being loaded for the restuarant, these will be much more extensive than supplies for only a buffet.
The final pointer is customers queuing for the Pullman, or on board staff laying the tables in F.

If you correctly determine the platform before it be announced then you are virtualy certain to get a seat, possibly even a table one.
If you leave it until the train is anounced, then it depends on how qiuckly you can run !

*In certain rare circumstances these rules dont work, but they are a very good guide normally.

As others mention it is booked off platform 4.

The set is formed by the 1724 arrival from Paignton - if you are there early enough to see  that.

That of course assumes the set is not swapped!

Thanks

I intend to be at Paddington for 1730 at the latest!  The earlier the better. 

Beware that it is one of the more likely services to have a set swap at Paddington because it needs the right type of buffet for the restaurant service. It can be swapped to be formed off the 1730 arrival from Swansea at Paddington which should if all has gone to plan have been formed off the 0505 Penzance-London and should have the correct type of buffet. The 1803 is better than the 1903 on a Friday in my experience although at least on the 1903 there are a lot of passengers only travelling to Newbury. If the 1803 is full and standing from Paddington it will be that way until at least Taunton.

As DM says, this is normally formed off the 1724 ex-Paignton.  This is formed off the 1000 Pad-Pgn which is the 0921 arrival from Plymouth (0530).

Even if there is a set-swap, they generally still put the Golden Hind on 4, with the 1800 Bristol on 3.

E will be unreserved.

1903 will also be rammed because Super Off-Peaks are valid.

I will actually be on one of those services at some point tomorrow, so i'll report back if it's likely to still form the 1803.

Everytime I have travelled on the 1803 its been standing only until Reading, always managed to get a seat from Reading onwards. I also find going to the front of the train is emptier than the back standard coaches, although not a good idea if you want to use the restaurant.

And what are all those passengers for Reading doing on the 1803? The service is supposed to be pick-up only at Reading.

I've never thought of that before. A very good question.

How do you stop them unless you man every door and check everyone boarding

You don't.  You simply leave out the Reading stop one evening and have revenue protection pass through the train as it speeds westwards towards Taunton ;)

What about the people boarding at reading? Other than that a superb idea

1803 is Pick-up only at Reading on a Friday.

 :D

Somehow have Revenue Protection on the platform at Reading and stop anyone getting off.... (difficult but more likely than upsetting those wanting to board at Reading  ;)).

Printed and .pdf timetables show the 1803 as being pick-up only Mon-Fri, as do some booking engines.

I only checked NRE and it shows it as a booked stop for London passengers Monday-Thursday.

I can also confirm, as the 1803 is on one of our diagrams, that it only shows "U" for Reading on a Friday, and Paddington CIS/PA show it as a booked stop M-Th.

(I have no issue with it becoming "U" at Reading all five days though  ;)).

Not unusual to have a difference of opinion across public sources of information.

Whatever the actual situation, if a service is pick-up only, that should be enforced. I've never seen any enforcement before boarding, on board, or on arrival at Reading for the weekday xx03/06 departures from Paddington.

I agree.  On a Friday, I always challenge passengers before they board where possible, and make necessary announcements that the first booked station call is Taunton and this service is not booked for alighting at Reading - unless we receive backup from Revenue/BTP, no-one is going to cough up the Anytime Single fare to Taunton when they know they can walk off the train at Reading.

When I was first "wet behind the ears" as a TM, I had a generous moment and allowed someone to travel to Reading on the Night Sleeper, who then fell asleep and woke the whole of coach B up when he started verbally abusing me around Westbury...

Since that night, I personally check all tickets before departing London on the Sleeper and send any Readings over to the 2348, no excuses.

They should cancel the Reading call one Friday night (when the 1833 ex Pad is running anyway), and carry everyone on to Taunton. And collect the excess fares . . . OK, passengers for beyond Plymouth are more inconvenienced, but FGW can cope with that.

They could make a start by not anouncing that the 18-03 stops at Reading, at present both the anouncements and the departure indicator boards state that the 18-03 stops at Reading. A reasonable person could therefore assume that it is in order to use this service to Reading.

If the Reading stop was not advertised at Paddington, then the railway would have a much stronger case for penalising those alighting at a "pick up only" stop.

IIRC there was a discussion about this some time ago ?

We never seem to get this problem at Waterloo on pick up only trains at Clapham Jcn (Gatwick pax) Woking (Heathrow pax) to Exeter.

I note they don't bother in the reverse direction except the first ex Exeter train, but solve it by just not stopping at either!! (You have to change at Basingstoke).

Perhaps it is because there are so many trains to and from Woking?  I've never worked that one out but there must be a reason.

Presumably ticket barriers could be programmed not to accept drop-offs to such destinations?

No you cant program a gate to stop drop off passengers only unless you set the gates to bar ALL tickets FROM Pad.  Obviously this would cause a riot at Reading as there isn't a specific gate array for a specific platform.

You could however set the gate array for the departing platform at Pad to reject all tickets TO Rdg.  This would simply stop anyone boarding with a ticket only to Rdg as the ticket would have to be seen by a Gateline Assistant.

The Reading stop has never been advertised on Fridays when I've been at Paddington in the past and similarly the window labels don't have Reading on on Fridays. On Mondays-Thursdays the Reading stop is advertised as the trains aren't pick up only.

The Exeter trains call at Woking and Clapham Junction in both directions. The Salisbury trains skip Clapham Junction but still call at Woking. Clapham Junction is pick up only away from Waterloo and isn't advertised on trains or at Waterloo. All fast trains which call at Clapham Junction are pick up only away from Waterloo but there are always a couple of people who travel anyway in my experience. Towards Waterloo services are not set down only at Clapham Junction but are still not advertised on the boards at Clapham Junction so there aren't many people joining the trains anyway. Woking is a full stop in both directions, there's only a few Weymouth services in the evening peak which are pick up only at Woking. The London-Exeter services provide a useful connection for passengers heading from Clapham Junction to Guildford, Haslemere and Portsmouth by changing at Woking which wouldn't be possible if it was a pick up only stop.

There are periods of an hour or so in both peaks where no fast trains at all call at Clapham Jn, the 2.5 minute headways (at 24 tph) on the SWML can't allow for calls to be made there.  (That's the main line fast side on SWT's platforms, the same problem doesn't apply to the SN or Windsor sides of the station.)

Paul

Wouldn't it be easy enough to have a revenue sting on board just after departing Paddington? The train has a first stop advertised as Taunton, and is clearly marked in timetables as pick up only at Reading. Therefore no Reading ticket holders should be on board.  ::)

For the sake of fairness, it should be warnings all round the first time, but then repeat the exercise a week later and start issuing excess fares to Taunton or writing out MG11 forms, as appropriate.

Or how about emphasising in the onboard announcements pre departure that Reading tickets are not valid, and train won't necessarily stop at Reading  ;D

Sorry, bit late now, but 1803 is Platform 4 tonight formed off late 1724 arrival.

To be fair, if someone is insistant on getting on, I tell them i'm not going to man-handle them off, but don't blame me if something happens, we don't stop and they end up in Taunton... they usually get off then  ;)

In my opinion no TOC would be prepared to pay the part-cancellation fee to actually run straight through a station without stopping for revenue purposes.

I agree though that prior-warning before leaving London that customers for Reading and connections are not valid on this train and subsequent RPI's walking through would do it.

That's what i meant.

I was only quoting Exeter services (comparable to the 1803 in intention).  Have you looked at the timetable recently, I wonder?

I did, and everything I wrote was from that.  So, with respect, I don't really know to what you are referring.  We are only talking about rush hour services here for obvious reasons. 

My experience is that, as the 1620 and 1720 are usually fairly rammed, other services may be preferred anyway by Woking pax.

On the Paddington issue, I have no idea where the barriers are, I thought they would be per platform.  Otherwise my idea of per gate programming could not work, clearly.

However, such programming could prevent the lost souls of this world going where they did not intend, so an advantage there. ;)

Indeed there was: see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=6496.msg97622#msg97622 et seq.  ;)

There are also a few W-o-E SWT Oddball Services which are first stop Basingstoke particularly in the evening peak ;)

Well out of area and possibly completely off topic. But at Warrington Bank Quay alot of trains that call there for London Euston and in actuality next station London Euston... My advice is simple. Don't get on the wrong train there unless you want to find yourself going 166 miles before being able to remedy it... ::) :o ;) A certain deceased BR Chairman did something similar too... :D

Sorry I didn't realise you were referring to peak times, in which case a couple of the services are pick up only at Woking. I don't think I've ever taken one of the evening services from Waterloo because of the peak restrictions, but it would make sense for Woking passengers to use other services as they are generally longer than the Exeter trains. And of course in the peak there are no Clapham Junction stops on fast services because there isn't enough capacity to do so.

What would you report them for if MGing them though? I suppose technically byelaw 18 (2) failing to show a valid ticket but no Magistrate would go with it.

I cant see it being any offence unless you can say they required a outbound to Taunton, and then a Taunton to Reading.
Charging them an excess to Taunton would surely then require a Taunton- Reading ticket to accompany it, if the train should be pick up only at Reading, as in theory they'd need to get back to Reading.

Looks like two singles would be the cheapest way of making a quick return on the 2025?

About ^60 in total?  You can't issue a return on the 1803 it would appear, not standard anyway.

But I am not good with FGW's web site. >:(

But why bother? First aren't losing revenue if they have ticket holders on board, so it's not a priority compared to areas where fare evasion is rife.

It's a good idea, but are First that bothered? No.

Once again, if the Gateline is set appropriately, none of the above is required.

...and the access from the footbridge at the country end where the gate line is (virtually) never in use?


Edit: Changed 'rear' to 'country end'

Seems to be in use in the evening peak in my experience, but apart from that it is very rare.

Bit pedantic of me, but the 1720 Exeter does not stop at Clapham and is pick-up only at Woking: accordingly it's advertised at Waterloo as first stop Basingstoke.

It's not pedantic but the point was already made in successive postings. 

See  last  Reply #39 on: February 16, 2013, 12:57:33 PM

   

Back to the original topic how did you get on Mookiemoo? Did I miss your post?

The 17:50 however is non stop between WAT and BSK... I've caught that train before ;)

And so if the Gateline is set properly, it will be in use...

I think what he means is the Gateline is near to always locked open............. I could say he's wrong... But I'd be lying :-\ :-X :-[

Thanks all - had an enjoyable weekend.

I gave a random example earlier - lets try a specific one... Lets be specific. 

Between 1745 and 1815 on platforms 1-6 at Paddington ^ all of which are either unbarriered or controlled by the same gates^you have the following scheduled departures.

Platform 5 1745 Swansea
Platform 1 1748 Cheltenham
Platform 2 1800 Bristol
Platform 4 1803 Golden Hind
Platform 3 1815 Swansea

Only one of them does not set down at Reading.  How can you properly control the barriers / gateline to stop reading passengers accessing the platform for the 1803?  The only way would be to put a person on every door to the train and stop anyone with a reading or oxford ticket from boarding the train at Paddington.

You couldn^t really implement it at Reading either unless you stopped people at the exit door of the train.  Lets say I was on the 1800, got off at Reading, stopped to spend a penny either figuratively or literally in one of the upper crust sorts^.then tried to depart the station just as the 1803 was letting out its passengers?

The ONLY way to stop it is a human ticket check on the doors of the 1803.

Or on the train before it gets to Reading

I agree but that has been dismissed as impractical etc.

And I am pretty intrigued by vacmanfans insistence on programming the gateline correctly without indicating even in theoryhow it could be done.

But it isn't just Reading, it is people changing at Reading too - which means a much wider range of destinations would need to be programmed into barriers if such a thing was possible.  Therefore I agree it has to be manual check on people as they board.  However, as has also been stated, I doubt it is a priority for FGW.

The attitude with pick up only stops in my experience seems mainly to be to discourage passengers for alighting and keeping the numbers doing so to a minimum, not a strict approach to enforcement. Set down only stops are often late night services with some slack built in, having all set down only stops allows early running.

That also helps when said services are replaced by buses. If there is no one on board wanting a station the replacement bus can legitimately miss it out and save time.

Setting the specific rule and applying it to the gate array takes less than a minute.  Even less if you are well rehearsed!

The footbridge at Paddington has one set of barriers for Platforms 2-5. Setting the barriers to reject Reading tickets wouldn't work as many of those services would be boarding at the same time. Even at the concourse end where only Platforms 3 and 4 share barriers both platforms will be boarding at the same time for the 1803 and 1815 departures.

I presume the point of the apparently unenforceable restriction is purely in the interest of pax travelling beyond Reading who otherwise have to put up with Reading commuters crowding them out?

If so, why not just erect a sign at the platform entrance (and announce it both on train and station) before departure that pax to Reading will be charged ^10 extra as supplement.  Agreed such pax would have to believe that a TTI would be walking through, which would be done occasionally.  Actually it's only FO anyway isn't it? .

That procedure should clear the decks, I suggest.    ;D

Exactly: it's imposed with very good intent: since services to the west country are considerably less frequent than to Reading, the idea is that, in a worst case scenario, long-distance passengers for Devon and Cornwall wouldn't find it impossible to board the train because it was rammed with Reading commuters who could have taken countless other trains.

But strict enforcement is perhaps not necessary. The train is not advertised as calling at Reading and that should be enough to deter most passengers for Reading from boarding the service. That should prevent so much overcrowding. The restriction is Fridays only yes and also on Saturdays during the Summer timetable.

Oh come one, you expect a commuter who knows that the train not advertised at stopping at Reading, yet knows it will stop to pick up, would willingly not take that service?

No, but it will deter the irregular and unsure passengers so it will keep the numbers down. If it's just the regulars it isn't so much of a problem.