Great Western Coffee Shop

Because of Engineering Work between Bath and Trowbridge, I was looking at Jpourney Planner re travel from Newport to Salisbury.     One was directed by addtiional services from Cardiff to Bristol (Temple Meads), chabge to bus from there to Bath, change to another bus from Bath to Trowbridge thence change back to train.   There journeys were planned to take round about 4 hours.   The train from Trowbridge to connect into was a Cardiff to Portsmouth starting freom Swindon via Melksham (not stopping there, by the way, GrahamE although calling at Chippenham to cover other Engineering work requirements).
By travelling on a London (Paddington) train from Newport to Swindon and changing there, you could travel all the way by train with just one change rather than 3 changing (including buses).   Now the punch line - a Journey of approx 3 hours !!!
Journey Planner is not quoting the fastest or most convenient journey.

I suspect the Journey Planner is using the Routeing Guide and that no temporary easement has been programmed into it. Newport - Salisbury via Swindon is not on a permitted route.

Although in this case, it would seem reasonable to travel via Swindon, making the whole journey by train, saving over an hour, and avoiding two rail replacement buses.

I'd suggest asking FGW if they will allow travel via Swindon during the engineering works.

May be a total red herring but when I was looking around a fortnight ago for trains between Swindon and Westbury for tomorrow (3rd), the Sunday evening train via Melksham was brought forward from 18:19 to 18:00 and terminated at Trowbridge.  Since then the times have been amended and it is back at 18:19 and runs through to Westbury.  With the changes to the changes perhaps the wider implications were lost?

Surely if FGW are starting Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton services at Swindon then those from Bristol/South Wales can travel to Swindon to pick the train up from there rather than going by bus to Trowbridge?

You'd think.

But neither booking engines or journey planners have been amended to explicitly permit journeys via Swindon. That's why I suggest asking first rather than winging it.

However, if you should wing it and be excessed fared/UFN'd for being off route, I would hope that FGW would cancel and/or refund any additional payment made/asked for. In all likelihood common sense would be applied by on train staff, but you can never be certain of that!

Just had another look at the planners for tomorrow.  I wonder if there has ever been a through train from Barnham to Swindon before!

Very true!

This is what National Rail Enquiries has to say about tomorrow's service. Again not entirely clear that you can travel via Swindon using normal route tickets:

   

There has. FGW have diverted Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton trains to start/terminate at Swindon a few times now so you can connect at Swindon for Bristol and South Wales.

Also provides Chippenham with a rail service to connect with diverted Bristol-London trains at Swindon.

   

Although not explicit, that does rather suggest you can travel via Temple Meads and Swindon on a South Wales-Salisbury/South Coast ticket, even though that would normally be further disallowed as you'd be doubling back through Chippenham. But nothing about South Wales - Swindon via Bristol Parkway as the quicker alternative with no double back.  ::)

Someone has failed to do a bit of joined up thinking it would seem. It may even have been possible to save on some Rail Replacement Buses by sending all the South Wales/Bath/Bristol TM - Salisbury/South Coast passengers via Chippenham/Swindon. Leaving just the intermediate stops between Bath Spa and Trowbridge requiring a replacement bus service.

I'd like to think the train planners had looked at all the options, but based on what's actually happening I'm not so sure.

Bristol to Londons are going via Bristol Parkway (non-stop) as the work is between Bristol TM and Trowbridge rather than Bath and Trowbridge.  Summary of FGW alterations is rather confusing and hard to fathom out.    Why catch a train from Cardiff to Bristol TM and than change into a HST there for Swindon when Cardiff to Londons are running direct to Swindon.   Going back to my OP, passengers are directed by 2 buses from Bristol TM

I remember back in the 90s when the route between Bristol and Bath was closed, Cardiff-Portsmouths were diverted via Swindon and some even via Taunton! Thus maintaining direct services all be it a longer journey. Surveys have shown that passengers would rather a longer diverted journey than having to change onto a bus which is obvious if you decided to travel by train that you wouldn't want to spend part of the journey on a bus.

I think this ties in nicely with another discussion taking place on another thread where a printed timetable with a pdf online showing today's revised Cardiff-Portsmouth services starting/ending in Swindon with connections from Bristol/South Wales would have been useful.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=11936.msg125796#msg125796

Very few TOCs bother to print or put revised timetables online these days with the exception of SWT and EMT. East Coast don't bother anymore and they used to be very good.

I'm re-visiting my original OP and have realised if passengers from South Wales tavelling towards Portsmouth were to travel via Swindon on London trains, there would be an overcrowding risk through carrying 2  trains passengers in 1.
This is something I have advocated against in the past which can happen when a TOC fail to cover their own services the other side of a block.     As an example when CT were in existence, there was a blockade between Birmingham and Gloucester necessitating the use of buses to replace Nottingham to Cardiff trains..   Passengers were advised to travel on ATW services from Gloucester to South Wakes by taking the easy way out.    This even happened on a Rugby day in Cardiff.
Since XC took ober the route it does not happen as with a Traincrew Depot at Bristol,  they cover up their services between Cardiff and Gloucester

I'm not sure on a Sunday ... but I'm used to the South Wales to London services picking up significantly more people at Swindon (heading towards London) than getting off (travelling to Swindon from Parkway and South Wales).  So whilst you are spot in to question the capacity in the doubled up train, it shouldn't be an issue in this case (that's unless there's already an overcrowding issue on those trains on the section east from Swindon on Sunday.  Surely not - it's super offpeak  ;) )

This is what the staff have been told....just looks like routing guide glitch....

This is a copy of a weekly engineering email that gets sent every week...without fail to all staff with email.. It is also sent in a slightly nice format on the internal messaging system to all ticket offices and on train staff as wellll.

Note part in RED for this topic and instruction in GREEN

SATURDAY 2ND UNTIL FRI 8TH FEB 2013

(WEEK 45)

THAMES  VALLEY AREA


ALL DAY SUN 3RD FEB

Relief lines closed between Ladbroke Grove and Dolphin Jct, trains over main lines.

FROM 2100 SAT 2ND FEB UNTIL 0035 SUN 3RD FEB
FROM 0810 SUN 3RD FEB UNTIL 0445 MON 5TH FEB

Relief lines closed between Reading New Jct and Reading West Jct together with platforms 9,10,11 & 16 at Reading. Possession extends to Tilehurst East Jct 2310 Sat - 0030 Sun and back to Twyford West Jct and through to Tilehurst East Jct 2300 Sun until 0445 Mon

FROM 0035 UNTIL 0810 SUN 3RD FEB

All lines closed between Twyford West and Tilehurst East Jct / Southcote Jct.
Trains start / terminate at  Twyford with replacement road transport operating between Twyford and Reading Rail Air.

ALL DAY SUN 3RD FEB

Slow lines closed between Redhill and Gatwick Airport. FGW services start / terminate at Redhill, customers able to use other operators services to / from Gatwick Airport.

ELSEWHERE

FROM 2350 SAT 2ND FEB UNTIL 1550 SUN 3RD FEB

All lines closed between Thingley Jct and Bristol TM and between Bathampton Jct and Bradford Jct. HSS services diverted via an alternative route not calling at Chippenham or Bath Spa.
West services to / from Portsmouth Hbr / Barnham divert to / from Swindon, calling at Chippenham, and continue to operate between Cardiff Central and Bristol TM.  A single West service to  Weymouth  starts from Trowbridge.

Limited Replacement road transport operates as follows :

Swindon to Bath Spa non stop, Chippenham to Bath Spa / Bristol TM, Trowbridge to Bath Spa calling Bradford Upon Avon and Bath Spa to Bristol TM with some journeys calling intermediately. Also between Bath Spa and Avoncliff via Freshford and Bradford Upon Avon and return.
At Bath Spa coaches will use the BUS STATION adjacent to Bath Spa Stn
At Bristol TM coaches will use the LOW LEVEL CAR PARK.
 
Customers travelling from Trowbridge and south thereof to Bristol TM and beyond, and V V, MUST be advised to travel via Swindon. Suitable On Train and Station announcements to be made please.

Customers travelling to  / from Chippenham from the London direction to use the amended Portsmouth Hbr services for travel between Swindon and Chippenham and return.
ALL DAY SUN 3RD FEB

All lines closed between Arundel Jct and Brighton are closed. FGW services start / terminate at Barnham with replacement  transport in place to / from Brighton.

ALL DAY SUN 3RD FEB

All lines closed between Evesham and Worcester SH. FGW services start / terminate at Evesham/ Cheltenham Spa. A shuttle train service also operates between Worcester SH and Hereford. Replacement road transport operates between Evesham and Worcester FS via Worcester SH.

SUN 3RD FEB UNTIL 1300 (NOT ALL DAY AS SHOWN ON AEN 85)

All lines closed between Cardiff Central and Swansea are closed. FGW services start / terminate at Cardiff with replacement road transport operating between Cardiff Central and Swansea.

MONDAY TO FRIDAY NIGHTS 4TH - 8TH FEB
 FROM 2150 UNTIL END OF SERVICE EACH NIGHT

Lines between N Abbot and Paignton are closed, trains start / terminate at N Abbot, replacement road transport operates between N Abbot and Paignton

That information really should have been in the public domain. I'm aware of another internal industry source that said much the same. Journey Planners and booking engines should have been updated. It's not good enough for passengers to believe they will have to use 2 rail replacement buses when in fact, on the day, they were likely to have been told to travel via Swindon, going against any itinerary they may well have been given.

Let's see if heads can be banged together and the correct information is given to the public the next time such an engineering possession affects the South Wales-South Coast services. I'm not holding my breath....

I was going to contact FGW re this as suggested if happening again next weekend but the Cardiff to Portsmouths are running as normal.   There is an occupation between Bath and Chippenham but not between Bath and Trowbridge.

Looking at the journey planner for Sunday 10th Feb it looks like services between Bath and Chippenham are being diverted via Trowbridge then reversing running through Melksham because the journey time is much longer between these two stations. Anyone able to confirm this?

That is indeed the case, Timmer.

Here's one example of a schedule for Sunday 10th February 2013, the 0900 from Bristol TM to Paddington:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P05502/2013/02/10/advanced

So another day when the Bradford north curve would have been useful - knocking around 12 minutes off the diversion time, as well as the recent morning when the route via Box was closed.

Incidentally, is the service booked to run wrong line east of Chippenham as well?

Wrong line only between Thingley Junction and Thingley East Crossovers

Which is the only possible way it can get onto the up line, so I was a bit surprised at the reference to it.

So a few sets will be in reverse formation by the end of the day.

Yep, surely it will be reinstated before they begin putting the wires up between Chippenham and Bath?

I've heard from one of the management team at FGW that this will be happening, because of the need for a few (not sure) week closure of Box Tunnel. Hopefully NR own the land, so can avoid a long drawn out process to gain approval for it.

I'm sure it's something that's been looked at, and perhaps seriously, but I'm afraid I'll believe it when I see it happening on the ground.

I recall hearing that a fourth platform at Westbury would be happening (widening the current platform 1 out to the bypass track) as part of the Reading stations work.  That extra track can already take passenger trains (as proven when a 150 split the points and blocked platforms 1 and 2 out of use for anything southbound for a couple of days). Never happened :( .

On the other hand, Theale got an extra platform for engineering cover.  From my (very limited, in this case) knowledge, I found myself wondering if that's going to meet any real extra need in the future;  I know that an extra platform at Westbury would be an ongoing help,  allowing for better and crossplatform connections from East / North to West / South and vice versa, and providing more robustness as Westbury becomes the outer commuter destination, and the "New Crewe" or rather the Crewe of the South.

Westbury Platform 4 isn't an easy task AIUI.

I was talking to a member of dispatch having come off the last Salisbury - Westbury Train and having a little over half an hour wait. He kindly offered me a cup of tea knowing I was waiting for the 00:08 to Frome ::)

One of the things in the discussion was why they just hadn't extended the platform out towards the track. The reason behind this is because there are several cables including ones used for signalling between the old platform and the track... :-X

Also there would need to be some work done to a set of points (not sure the reason behind that one though) to be completed and probably a platform renumbering scheme... :o

I personally think that Westbury 4th platform should be installed. The amount of times I've sat on trains just outside of Westbury only to hear over the PIS "We are currently awaiting a platform at Westbury" happens in my experience more than a little too often :-\

Throw into the mix every once in a while the XC Diversions that happen via WSB and you'll almost certainly have a few late trains... :-X