Great Western Coffee Shop

First morning of travelling today and all I can say is - what a joke.

For most of the line to oxford, only the front 2-5 coaches can be platformed. 

A summary of the various issues follows:

1. First class was like working on a station platform - there was always people walking through

2. Many standard class passengers decided to just sit in first causing more work for the TM. 

3. By Charlbury there were standard passengers blocking the aisle through first so much so that the trolley could not get through - apparently there were seats in A and B but because CD and E were full passengers just stood in the buffet and aisles (as predicted).  The TM made several requests for people to move down.

4. Groups of school kids travellng to oxford lingerered in the lobbies causing noise and disturbance.

5. And all these dont take into account the chaos on the patforms that I merely observed

6. The change to SDO means the TM having to make repeated announcments.  Given how close together the stations are on the cots line - no sooner as they had finished welcoming passengers boarded at XYZ they had to start the 4-5 warning of where to get off - if the poor TM did nt have laryngtis at the end to match the headache of the passengers I'll be surprised

i am currently exhausted as i got no rest on the way down despite being in 1st quiet carriage.  Standing standard passengers would let their phones go off and when asked to turn them off, got stroppy complaining about standing whilst we're worried about mobile phones (yes I was as I'm now dog meat). 

If it does not get better....

It is a farce, the SDO panels do allow the TM to release the doors to the rear or the front so why cant they stop with the Std class on the platform at the rear and release the doors behind?

Because bikes need the front P/C

Thats only because they changed the policy, they could just platform coach A, problem solved.

Ask users of Yatton if SDO is a problem :> Standby buses on hand for the rest of the week.....

That's what I meant but I didn't explain properly, sorry!!

Why not just lengthen the platforms yourselves. If Network Rail/FGW are not willing, then get the CL User Group to do it!

Oh sorry, I forgot "heath and safety." How stupid of me, how would that idea work......

Why not just lengthen the platforms yourselves. If Network Rail/FGW are not willing, then get the CL User Group to do it!

Oh sorry, I forgot "heath and safety." How stupid of me, how would that idea work......
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Interesting - in most countries the issue of platform lengthening would have been considered seriously and planned for over time, but given the lack of vision about public transport in the UK.....

Wales on the other hand!

Precisely! The same applies in Scotland.

As well as this: Why do we need SDO? If somebody is stupid enough to get off a train without a platform adjacent, then it is their fault if they slip and injure themselves. Britain has managed years of short platforms and longer trains in the past! Let the guard/automatic announcement tell people where to be in the train and then unlock all of the doors!

Result: (1) Less waiting around for the guard to walk up and down the train turning this switch on and that lever off! (2) People who forget to move to the right carriage can still get out using the HST steps, and not miss their stop! [i.e. like what people could do freely from mid 1800s to the 1960s!]

Oh damn, I forgot "health & safety" again didn't I? Yes, H&S, the people who don't realise that "He gave us brains so we could think to make decisions on our own" (just like "He gave us eyes so we could see the beauty of the world" -deliberate line invention from an appropriate hymn, no religious significance intended).

Gosh, one day H&S will have us all sitting down on our sofas with seat-belts on in case someone crashes a car into our houses. Eating everything except dried locusts will have been banned to prevent cancer.

As for getting the train: huh!- "How dare you suggest such a risky adventure! What about the risk assessment? We shall have to stand over 10m from the platform edge........

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A post that could have been penned by me!

lthough I do go one further and suggest that those that do come to an untimely end because of this should be awarded the Darwin award

FGW seem to have surrendered on SDO!

Today both the Hereford-London trains stopped with standard class on the platforms at Cotswold Line stations. According to postings on the charlbury.info website's commuter blog, a train manager said on the PA that this was a "trial" for the next few days. FGW's top brass finally seem to have noticed their SDO can open the doors behind the panel being used as well as in front!

Has anything similar happened elsewhere today? Eg the West Country.

Yes that seemed to happen this morning at Nailsea. And coincidentally the trains were running much closer to time too.

An excellent compromise, seems the cycle policy may need altering again!

Lets hope so!!!!!!!

If this is true then I think you can say that common sense has prevailed. What you get when a couple of high up managers come up with a method of working without any consultation with the people that carry out the role is as in the first few days of SDO complete and utter chaos.

Worcester S.H the other day bloke with bike at front of train, platform staff without a clue as what to do, driver, who as instructed to do by management and unions not wishing to get involved and train manager at the very rear of the train 260 metres away.  Yeah you guessed it delay to the train and inconvenience to the "CUSTOMERS" This method of working was destined for failure. Don't hold your breath though as a change of policy isn't definante yet!

well said 12 hr.........SDO will though be here to stay in some form or other though because its the only way HSTs can stop at shorter platforms which previously did not have Grandfather rights...WORLE Station springs to mind.

Why not open all of the platform side doors and let people use the built-in steps on the HSTs to climb down.

Sorry, the heath and safety talibans do not appreciate this kind of intelligence.

Seems that perhaps some of the drivers are now confused about what they should do.

According to a post on the Charlbury commuter blog, the 06.43 off Hereford stopped with first class on the platform again yesterday morning. If it was doing this all the way from Hereford probably accounts for it running 13 minutes late by Charlbury and more delays outside Oxford made it 22 late on arrival there. By contrast, the 05.42 from Hereford called with standard on the platform and was running on time at Charlbury and a minute early into Oxford, to general astonishment. Pity both HSTs either side of it were late, though the 05.50 from Moreton-in-Marsh, which is still 180 operated, was right time throughout to Paddington.

According to John Stanley of the CLPG, the change of heart on which coaches are on the platform followed a trip on the Cotswold Line on Wednesday morning by the 'general manager' - I'm guessing Richard Rowland, who is responsible for the Thames Valley area - after reports from the line's service delivery manager of the chaos she witnessed on the Monday and Tuesday mornings.

May be too little too late though. Anecdotal evidence on the commuter blog and personal observation suggests that passenger numbers, which fell at several Cotswold Line stations last year, have taken another hit. Would be interesting to know what Chiltern's takings at Bicester North were looking like this week...

The 0545 from WOS stopped with standard on the platform.  Arrived late but that was purely because of congestion at Reading - we were ahead of schedule before that.  In terms of passenger numbers - it was me and the customer host until evesham and even by Pad there could not have been more that 20 (and thats beig generous) passenger in 1st class.

1822 out of Pad last night was also empty for a friday night,  Got busier at oxford but thats because the 1752 was terminated and we had to pick up the stranded passengers and crew.  We got to WOS late but that was due to adding in stops at hanborough and shipton - even then it was not notably late.

Have to say - costwold line passenger levels remind me of how it was back in 2004 before the adelantes were introduced.

The morning 0545 is perfect for an adelante - a turbo is not fit for purpose but a HST seems overkill if last week is anything to go by,

Anyone have any further observations of current practice in the stopping first or standard class at short platforms carry-on?

Apparently today the 05.30 from Great Malvern to Paddington stopped at Charlbury with the front end, ie first class coaches plus one standard, on the platform again. Was running late, though this was being put down to signalling problems.

As it is supposed to! Front P/C MUST be platformed now at "short shacks"

But ONLY because of human policy!

The SDO system as I understand can cope with either power car being on the platform - its just for some reason FGW decided front car only

And if they do - they will lose those who can switch (first class especially) to other carrier - or maybe that is the plan - shunt us all to virgin or chiltern then run economy only on a 3 hour journey

The SDO system can cope with it yes, but front power car only is a lot easier!

Jim, indeed it can cope, and did for the latter part of last week on the Cotswold Line after Richard Rowland came on the Wednesday morning to see for himself, after being alerted to problems on the Monday and Tuesday, especially at Charlbury - see my previous posts. Trains resumed stopping with standard on the platform, irrespective of formation, for a couple of days. Seems he may have been over-ruled by Swindon this week.

Does not get away from the fact that at 7.30am at Charlbury there is only one standard coach on the platform, with dozens of passengers trying to get into two doors, or tramping through first and the buffet to reach a seat. At Hanborough it is first class only. Wonder what the HSE would make of this carry-on. I can't believe this was quite what people had in mind when SDO was made compulsory. Or is using common sense selective as well now?

Whats H&S got to so with people walking through the train!?

I was referring to the instinctive reaction of people with standard class tickets to go to the standard class coach, as that's all it is in the case of Charlbury, rather than boarding through doors in first, which results in an almighty scrum at the two doors on coach E. See the Charlbury commuter blog at charlbury.info for eyewitness views of events at 7.30 each morning.

Or are they just scaremongering and, once we have all been re-educated and agree to bend to FGW's iron will, we'll wonder why for so many years HSTs ever stopped with standard on the platform.

It may be easier to stop with the front end on the platform, but does it make sense? That is the point we are raising and some of us are yet to be convinced. Today, it took three minutes to get the less heavily used 6.42 from Hereford back on the move from Charlbury. Not exactly sparkling performance with only seven doors to worry about, is it? And coaches A and B were no more than half-full on arrival at Oxford.

I presume though that the train manager walked the length of the train to check the doors were shut properally, and if he had and doubts went back and checked...

At unstaffed stations the TM has to open the doors, walk the length of the train shutting them, back the length of the train to the panel he used to open the doors as is the limitation of SDO, the same panel MUST be used so two walks of the length of the train causes a lot of delay, especially in Cornwall where only the last coach isn't platformed.

the SDO policy is under review and there are proposals to get the back half of the train platformed at certain stations on the up road in Cornwall (and other places). However as with most things this is currently causing much discussion/arguments among staff/management/unions....

Perhaps the easiest way to solve this problem is to rearrange the carriages within each train so that First Class is somewhere in the middle... (http://www.takeforum.com/forum/images/smiles/uhohhide.gif)

NO!

Thats what happened on the 180s

nightmare

Oh bugger, now I've upset a first-class ticket holder. That means I've only got 12 days to come up with a different New Year's Resolution...

Can I just say - not all first class ticket holders are nobs

You do 0632 from WOS to PAD and then 1822 PAD to WOS 5 days a week and see how long you last standard?

i tried it standard - and ended up a zombie by friday!

Some of us dont do it because we think we're better but because it is the only way it is tolerable.

I dont understand the antipaty towards 1st travellers other than the total nobs who do think they are better than the rest

I'm sorry now if my next couple of posts sound stupid or anything, i'm just trying to get my head around all of this.

Do bikes have to be at the front or back of the HST?

Depends which power car is on/of the platform where you get on or off........


There is no simple rule

I still do not understand why it had to be this complicated

So sometimes its the front, and sometimes it's the back??

Why make it so damn complicated!? would it not just be easier to stick with one way, like the back when the train is in normal formation, and only when it's in reverse formation, have the cycles at the front? Then if it's a short platform, they have to make sure that the end that has the cycles on is on the platform...sorry if i'm repeating stuff that other people have said...

First great western, you will forever bamboozle me

Official line is that the FRONT  power car is on all platfroms and anyone going to/from a short platform must put their bike in there, if you are travelling between two "long" platforms then you can put your bike in the van at the rear.

Train Fellows post (link below.)
http://trainfellows.blogspot.com/2007/12/selective-door-opening.html

See - I don't understand why they couldn't carry on stopping where they were, after all, there was nearly always a TGS on!

Trials are to take place on certain services at certain locations where the back half of the train is platformed as the system is already in a mess. The 05:24 PLY to PAD is one service where different stopping arrangements will be trialed. Stations like Worle etc the back of the train will be platformed to avoid upsetting the First Class passengers when 100 odd people walk through their carriage (although expect they'll start moaning they have to walk through standard to get to their coach now). This however seems another ill thought out plan, what if you join at one of the stations where the front power car is platformed, put your bike in the power car, then want to leave at a station where the rear of the train is platformed??

I thought that if the train is to stop with the TGS one at one station then they will use the same stopping patern for the whole journey??

It's not so much that it upsets the 1st class passengers (though I'm sure it does), it's just that passengers instinctively think "oh I can't get on here" and migrate to the standard class. So at Nailsea, instead of 5 platformed standard class coaches, you now have a leading power car, 2x1st class, 1x 1st buffet, and 1 standard class platformed and doors open. Result 60+ passengers trying to enter through a couple of doors instead of nine. So dwell times increase considerably, particularly as the coach available to board is already probably full to standing by the time it gets to Nailsea, because it's been the only available coach at several of the previous stations.

Except on most days common sense has prevailed and the train draws up with the train in its pre December 9th position.

I am led to believe from staff at FGW that the reason that the front of the train is the portion that is platformed is that a consistent stopping position was agreed with the HMRI. If there is a signal associated with the platform there are going to be occasions when this is showing red and therefore it is not possible to go past with the First Class and put the rear on the platform. Also the Train Manager now has to be at a particular door panel for each short platform and if in the above scenario they positioned themselves towards the front to release the doors to the rear of their position and the signal was at red they would not be able to release to the rear as some of the rear coaches would be off the platform and would then only be able to release those doors in front of them. On a platform which should hold 6 coaches this would result in only being able to open the front 2.
Not all platforms are fitted with boards to indicate exactly where the driver should position the train if the rear portion is to be platformed and finally all the wheelchair positions are now located in one half of the train - coaches E and G and it is far easier and quicker to reposition a train by drawing forward than by asking permission to set back where the driver would have to change ends, set back into the station and then change ends again.

They stop with First class and coach E at Ivybridge, i know that!