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Title: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: grahame on December 31, 2012, 12:34:33 For my occasional day trips into London (to work, so peak time both ways), I've been using the Any time Day Travel Card from Westbury, route via Newbury, at 80.00, as it's represented best value for my needs. Its only downside has been some very long waits at Paddington when I've only had a short meeting / want to travel home just after lunch time.
I'm not seeing this ticket coming up for journeys in the New Year - is it still available, and if not what's the best alternative ticket? Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on December 31, 2012, 13:05:47 I have checked the next National Fares Manual and the Anytime Day Travelcard (ADT) from WSB via Newbury is there, but is priced at ^158.50!!!
That's a cocking great increase in price and I'm wondering the reasoning behind it. Was the ADT artificially cheap due to an anomaly when the via Newbury fares were introduced in May 2012, or is the new price an anomaly? I'm suspecting you've been getting something of a bargain for a peak fare into and out of London, but that's difficult to gauge as there is no equivalent Anytime Day Return to Paddington. The Anytime Return (SOR) (valid up to 30 days on the return) is ^152.00 Either way grahame I'd be asking FGW for an explanation of the near 100% increase in price. Alternative tickets will depend on what services you want to catch. Splits at stations along the Berks & Hants will severly limit your choice of trains as so few from/to Westbury services call at places like Newbury. I believe an FGW spokesperson said recently that none of their fares (both regulated and unregulated) were increasing by more than the RPI+1% formula. You've found one that is grahame. I think FGW should be made aware that that statement was wrong and called to account. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: EBrown on December 31, 2012, 13:13:21 It's there but there is a small increase to 158.50!
I'm not really sure what the best alternate is. :( Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: EBrown on December 31, 2012, 13:22:26 I believe an FGW spokesperson said recently that none of their fares (both regulated and unregulated) were increasing by more than the RPI+1% formula. You've found one that is grahame. I think FGW should be made aware that that statement was wrong and called to account. Can you find that?London to Plymouth CDR is rising 8.2% (^111.50) Given no statement is available on the website; who will be brave enough to call the Duty Press Officer (Dan) [I'm not]. ***** **** **. Edit note: I have removed the specific First Great Western mobile number quoted in this post, as it is to be used for official press purposes only. Chris. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on December 31, 2012, 13:35:07 Heres an article with the quote about no fares rising beyond the Governments formula. The spokesman is clearly quoted as saying 'none' and unregulated fares are also included:
From The Herald (http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Protest-Plymouth-train-fares-rising-times-fast/story-17556352-detail/story.html) (Plymouth) on 11th December 2012: Quote Protest in Plymouth as train fares rising 'three times as fast as wages' AVERAGE train fares have risen nearly three times faster than wages since the recession began, say rail campaigners. They were due to hold a protest at Plymouth rail station this morning as part of a nationwide day of action. The TUC's Action for Rail campaign says a family of two adults and two children looking to travel to London on an anytime ticket from Plymouth in 2013 will have to pay more than ^481. The huge disparity between rail and wage increases means that their fare would be equivalent to the average weekly wage. Rail union members as well as commuters will take part in protests from 7.30am until 9.30am today to highlight the strength of feeling over further cuts. They will hand out Christmas cards to travellers to make them aware of planned cuts to services and staff and the rising cost of rail travel. The protests come just days after the Association of Train Operating Companies announced new inflation-busting fare rises for 2013. A union spokesman said: "The seasonal message reminds train travellers that, as well as fare rises and staff cuts in the New Year, they can look forward to a 2013 packed full of cancelled trains, service cuts, and ticket office closures ^ all at a time when the train companies are making huge profits. "Action for Rail campaigners will encourage commuters to use the Christmas cards to tell their local MPs of their concern over what is happening to the UK's railways." According to new analysis published today, between 2008 and 2012 average rail fares increased by 26.6 per cent. Average wages rose by just 9.6 per cent over the same period ^ well below the rate of inflation. Train fares are set to outpace wages and inflation again in 2013 after the Association of Train Operating Companies announced a 3.9 per cent increase in average prices last week, with some fares set to rise by as much as 10 per cent from January. Meanwhile, wages are forecast to rise by just 2.5per cent, according the Office for Budget Responsibility. The only year when average rail fare rises have been lower than wages and inflation was in 2010. A First Great Western spokesman said: "We understand that these are tough times for many people but the money raised by Government through fares ensures investment in more trains, better stations and faster services. "The price of season tickets is regulated by the Government, and while we have some room to manoeuvre ^ to reflect changes in demand on particular routes, for example ^ the average will stay the same. "From January, none of our season tickets will rise by more than the Government's regulated fares formula. "We have used the Government guidelines as the basis for all our fare changes ^ regardless of whether they are regulated or not. "Aside from sensible rounding, none of our fares will rise by more than the formula." Recent research by Transport for Quality of Life has shown that rail privatisation is costing taxpayers ^1.2billion a year, with train operating companies making large profits on the back of public subsidies, the TUC said. It claimed that eliminating this wastage could result in an 18 per cent cut in rail fares across the board. Someone has been telling porkies and should be held to account. >:( Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: EBrown on December 31, 2012, 13:38:29 Daily Fail would love this! It's shocking how this has either slipped through the net or been cunningly done!
Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on December 31, 2012, 13:46:04 London to Plymouth CDR is rising 8.2% (^111.50) I don't know where you've got that from. There is no London to Plymouth Off Peak Day Return (CDR). All the fares on that flow priced by FGW are rising by 4.2% or very near that percentage. The Off Peak Return (SVR) is rising from ^107 to ^111.50. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: EBrown on December 31, 2012, 13:59:00 I don't know where you've got that from. There is no London to Plymouth Off Peak Day Return (CDR). All the fares on that flow priced by FGW are rising by 4.2% or very near that percentage. The Off Peak Return (SVR) is rising from ^107 to ^111.50. Almost a direct quote from the Daily Fail who are directly quoting a Passenger Focus representative.Quote It sought to spin the figures by insisting the average increase from January 2 would be 3.9 per cent. I did mean SVR not CDR however. ;)But Anthony Smith, of the watchdog Passenger Focus, said: ^Passengers going to buy their ticket on a cold January morning won^t be paying an ^average fare^ they will be paying a fare that may have gone up by more than that. ^Hard-pressed passengers ... will feel the pinch.^ He said an off-peak return between London and Plymouth on First Great Western will rise 8.3 per cent to ^111.50 while Birmingham-London on Chiltern will go up 10 per cent to ^27.50. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244164/How-annual-rail-fare-year-Rail-firms-reveal-extent-huge-increases-faced-commuters.html#ixzz2Gdbis1VS Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: thetrout on December 31, 2012, 15:07:54 Split at Newbury? Then Travelcard from there?
Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: devon_metro on December 31, 2012, 15:37:29 I'm guessing they've just fixed an old anomaly since the old ADT was ^80 to London Z1-6 whereas London Terminals was ^148!
Nice whilst it lasted! Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: grahame on December 31, 2012, 16:08:13 I'm guessing they've just fixed an old anomaly since the old ADT was ^80 to London Z1-6 whereas London Terminals was ^148! It depends on how you look at it - they would say "fixed an anomoly". The customer would say "nearly doubled a fare". Forget the talk of 4.5% and 6.2% rises - this one's a 97.5% rise .... and if the old fare was too low, that's hardly the customer's fault! Split at Newbury? Then Travelcard from there? Yeah ... that brings it down to 97.40 - only a rise of 21%, but excludes trains that don't call at Newbury. In other words, if I miss the 12:18 out of Paddington, I have to wait for the 16:36 (as the 15:06 doesn't stop at Newbury!). Probably better simply to drive to Bedwyn and get an anytime day return from there at 55.00 - cuts out the faffing around with split tickets and long waits for a train with the right stopping pattern / going the right route. Westbury's now priced beyond what I can pass on to my London clients ... Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on December 31, 2012, 17:13:24 I've raised the issue with FGW via Facebook. Ollie tells me he is raising it with the press office and fares team. Being a holiday period I don't expect a quick response.
I predict though that FGW will say the pre- Jan 2013 fare was an error that they've now fixed. And because it was an error it shouldn't be included in the statement about fares increases. I'd like to see them publicly explain what they've done though. Funny that they didn't fixed in at the last fares round in September. ::) Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: EBrown on December 31, 2012, 17:39:29 I've raised the issue with FGW via Facebook. Ollie tells me he is raising it with the press office and fares team. Being a holiday period I don't expect a quick response. I also emailed a brief statement of my concerns to customer services and Chris Brock earlier today.Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: paul7575 on December 31, 2012, 17:50:44 I'm surprised press offices don't include 'errors and omissions excepted' (E&OE) on all the relevant releases about fares. Would saves them getting shot down months/weeks later if someone has made a schoolboy error with a fare somewhere...
Seems to be pretty standard in many retail areas, such as newspaper adverts... Paul Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: grahame on December 31, 2012, 18:45:26 I've raised the issue with FGW via Facebook. Ollie tells me he is raising it with the press office and fares team. Being a holiday period I don't expect a quick response. If you - unexpectedly - find out tomorrow, please let me know ... Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on January 01, 2013, 18:04:37 Back to the request for alternative fares:
If you are returning on the 1218, 1636, 1733, 1806, 1833, 1945 or 2035 the best splits are: Anytime Day Return (SDR) Westbury to Pewsey ^8.40 Anytime Day Return (SDR) Pewsey to Newbury ^8.50 Anytime Day Travelcard (ADT) Newbury to London Zones 1-6 ^57.00 Total ^73.90 If you want to return on the 1506 (with this cheaper option also available to use on all the other services to Westbury via Newbury) then you need to be a little more creative and use NRCoC 19(c) coupled with a Season ticket so as not to be required to travel on trains that call at the split points: Anytime Day Return (SDR) Westbury to Pewsey ^8.40 7 Day Season (7DS) Pewsey to Bedwyn ^22.60 Anytime Day Return (SDR) Bedwyn to Iver ^21.20 Anytime Day Travelcard (ADT) Iver to London Zones 1-6 ^18.00 Total ^70.20 Both options cheaper than the old through fare but with the potential for hassle, particularly the second option. But they are both perfectly legitimate combinations of tickets and I'd have no qualms using them, particularly after the through fare has nearly doubled in price. Stick it to FGW I say for their mistake! EDIT NOTE: I've edited the second option after finding cheaper splits. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on January 02, 2013, 21:53:36 I've had a response from FGW via Facebook:
Quote I am sorry for this, it was a technical data issue that caused the fare to display at the wrong value, this was corrected in mid-December to ^154.50, the fare then increased from January 2013 to the correct 2013 price of ^158.50. That was the ever dependable Ollie. He further explained that the response was from the 'fares team'. Not the most satisfactory of responses and doesn't really explain anything, but I doubt there will be movement on the fare increase. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: EBrown on January 02, 2013, 22:00:24 And I got this from Ollie, but no answer from Chris Brock directly:
Quote A data issue caused fare to display at the wrong value. Was corrected in December to ^154.50. Fare then increased today Change occurred on: Quote 17th December I also agree that this isn't really a suitable response, I think the supplementary question Bignosemac has asked is correct and I'm sure he will let us know what the response is. I will also let you know what the response I get from Chris is. Quote Would the 'fares team' be willing to expand on 'technical data issue'? That doesn't really say anything of substance. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: grahame on January 03, 2013, 10:09:03 At 40.7p / miles (that't the Bedwyn to London peak rate single), the cost of the Westbury -> Paddington day travelcard might have been expected to have risen to 89.50 plus whatever the travel card addon is - say to 98.00 And on this basis, the old fare (up to 17th December 2012) at 80.00 was not wildly out of line with being a reasonable fare from Wiltshire to London, and indeed it was already substantially higher than a Westbury to London (via Salisbury) ticket.
So ... the price goes up from 80.00 to 154.50 on 17th December, then up again to 158.50 on 3rd January - that's a 2.6% rise yesterday. It's disengenuous to describe the 2.6% rise as an "annual" rise - to me that means a rise that occurs once a year. I hadn't even realised that some fares had gone up in mid-December. Can we look forward to other fare rises in another couple of weeks time too?? Read me elsewhere - I am not against some of the lower fares rising to even out and clean up the fare system, and to ensure that the railways make a sensible income that will pay for most of the cost of operating the trains and network. And that includes some of my local fares such as Melksham to Swindon where an extra 25% income per passenger carried will make all the difference. However, raising a fare by 97% over the space of a month, then claiming in the press that you've stuck to RPI + 1% save for "rounding adjustments", is playing with words and makes it very hard for those of us "in the know" to trust what the spokesman says next time around. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: thetrout on January 03, 2013, 17:21:18 Well the split I found whilst not exactly a split would allow for all trains between Paddington - Westbury in the peak on the condition they called at Reading which all do apart from one or two oddballs.
As for the combination. I don't think ludicrous covers it. When the original ticket I would suggest purchasing is once you get to Reading going to send you 140 miles in the wrong direction. Trash the ticket there and then Anytime Travelcard Reading - Z1-6 Whilst the split is still not exactly RPI + 1% it would save you ^40 and still be valid for the 15:06 train Grahame wanted Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on January 03, 2013, 17:46:30 Could you tell us what tickets you are referring to thetrout?
Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: thetrout on January 03, 2013, 18:06:08 I was reluctant to post them in the public forum, would you mind if I put them in FP?
Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: EBrown on January 21, 2013, 04:32:55 The full response I've finally received from GW, they decided to randomly send it to the wrong email address... but after some tweeting it got sent to the right one and here it is!
Quote Thank you for your email of 31 December 2013 regarding the recent price change to the Anytime Day Travelcard that you purchased between Westbury and London. I am sorry that you are unhappy with the recent price changes and I can appreciate that the difference is considerably high. I have investigated the matter with our Pricing Manager and they have confirmed that there was actually an error in the pricing of the Anytime Day Travelcard. This error was corrected in mid-December, but for anyone who last bought one back in November or beforehand will think that this is a January fares increase. At the end of December once the fare anomaly had been fixed, the fare was then subject to the same 4.2% (average) increase and increased only marginally to ^158.50 in the January fares change. I trust that this has clarified the matter for you and I am sorry for any inconvenience the increase may have caused. Thank you once again for contacting us and if I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me. Yours sincerely Kevin Jones Customer Services Advisor Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: grahame on January 21, 2013, 09:28:36 Quoting in full so that I don't miss any points
The full response I've finally received from GW, they decided to randomly send it to the wrong email address... but after some tweeting it got sent to the right one and here it is! Quote Thank you for your email of 31 December 2013 regarding the recent price change to the Anytime Day Travelcard that you purchased between Westbury and London. I am sorry that you are unhappy with the recent price changes and I can appreciate that the difference is considerably high. I have investigated the matter with our Pricing Manager and they have confirmed that there was actually an error in the pricing of the Anytime Day Travelcard. This error was corrected in mid-December, but for anyone who last bought one back in November or beforehand will think that this is a January fares increase. At the end of December once the fare anomaly had been fixed, the fare was then subject to the same 4.2% (average) increase and increased only marginally to ^158.50 in the January fares change. I trust that this has clarified the matter for you and I am sorry for any inconvenience the increase may have caused. Thank you once again for contacting us and if I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me. Yours sincerely Kevin Jones Customer Services Advisor Many thanks for sharing that feedback, EBrown. So let's see if I understand it. An Anytime Day Travelcard from Bedwyn (in the east of the county of Wiltshire) to London costs 61 pounds. The journey to London is 75 miles, (total 150 miles), and lets add 10 miles for travel within London, so that's 38 pence per mile. Last May (?), extra fares were added from Westbury (in the west of the county of Wiltshire), includine an Anytime Day Travelcard, valid only on routes passing through Bedwyn, at a cost of 80 pounds. The journey to London is around 103 miles (total 206), and adding the same 10 miles for travel within London that works our at 37 pence per mile. I understand these extra fares were added because previously the only tickets from Westbury via Bedwyn were also valid via Bath Spa, and that was a much longer journey and more expensive route. An anomilie was being removed. In December 2012, just before Christmas and at a time when no price increases were happening to most of our knowledge, the price of the ticket from Westbury went up to 154.50 (ouch!) and then it rose again just 2 weeks later to 158.50. The December rise is stated as curing a fare anomoly - and yet in reallity it has created a fare anomoly, with an Anytime travelcard from Westbury to London costing 73.4p per mile, whereas a travelcard from Bedwyn to London costs 38p per mile. * However First dress it up, this is a price rise of 98% in a month. If I were to buy the ticket this month, my bank account would be debitted with 198% of the amount it would have been debitted with at the start of last month. Trying to tell us it's one "change" and one rise is playing with words at best ... * However First dress it up, they have created an anolomy of fares from the same Wiltshire line to London on the same type of ticket costing between 38p and 73.4p per mile whereas until mid December the fares were close to the same in pence per mile * First are now charging 97.50 for the round trip of 56 miles from Westbury to Bedwyn if you buy this ticket - that's 174p (yes, 1 pound 74p) per mile. The trains from Westbury to Bedwyn (and then on to Paddington) generally have plenty of seats available on the Westbury to Bedwyn leg (same back in the evening) so a higher fare is not justified by any "reduction of overcrowding" argument. And I understand that around 80% of income from the franchise goes to / via the DfT, so that in effect each Westbury Anytime Day Travelcard is an extra 63 pounds of tax to H M Government. For once, I'm lost for words ... "Rip off"? ... "Taking advantage"? ... "Cynical Price Hike"? ... and First have certainly lost business from me - on trains that are running anyway and will now have empty seats - as a result. My 80 pounds will be spent outside the rail industry. I note that First replied to your email of 31st December 2013 ... that's impressive, as we're still 340 days short of that date; shows a certain inaccuracy with figures ;) Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on January 21, 2013, 09:59:05 I'd say buy the splits I suggested. The one with the season ticket. And tell FGW what you are doing and why.
Still a tenner of your own to spend outside the industry! Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: BandHcommuter on January 21, 2013, 10:14:49 Anytime Day Return (SDR) Westbury to Pewsey ^8.40 That's very useful and I may well take advantage of it. I'm worried that I might get challenged about the split at Iver, since the train doesn't call there, and neither the Bedwyn to Iver return nor the Travelcard from Iver is a season ticket or leisure travel pass. Is this definitely OK?7 Day Season (7DS) Pewsey to Bedwyn ^22.60 Anytime Day Return (SDR) Bedwyn to Iver ^21.20 Anytime Day Travelcard (ADT) Iver to London Zones 1-6 ^18.00 Total ^70.20 Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on January 21, 2013, 10:23:17 Perfectly okay as long as one (and only one) of the tickets is a Season Ticket. With a Season Ticket as one of the splits you don't have to take trains that call at the split points. National Rail Conditions of Carriage condition 19(c) (http://nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/nrcc/NRCOC.pdf#page=12) allows this:
Quote 19. Using a combination of tickets You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies: (a) they are both Zonal Tickets unless special conditions prohibit their use in this way. The Ticket Seller will, if you ask, advise you whether you can use a Zonal Ticket in combination with another ticket. (b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another; or (c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/ are not. May be worth being versed in that condition, as well as carrying a printout of the relevant condition. A staffed station should provide such a printout on request. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: BandHcommuter on January 21, 2013, 10:37:24 Understood, many thanks :)
Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: grahame on January 21, 2013, 10:53:47 Understood, many thanks :) You may ... I don't totally. I understand Pewsey and Bedwyn (and that a second journey in the same week can use the same season ticket), but why is the Iver split valid for trains not stopping at Iver? Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: eightf48544 on January 21, 2013, 11:12:04 One of the things that really upsets me about modern business practice is the reluctance to admit you've cocked it up, unless it's in the interests of company when it's corrected see Kevin Jones reply.
If the original fare at ^80 (38p a mile ) was a mistake the rise to ^154.50 and then applying the price rise ^158.50 (why the extra 50p? ) was in my opinion FGW deliberately being greedy. So just, bite the bullet and make the fare ^90 as suggested by Graham. Or only sell the splits. Note: it's not just the railways nobody from Heathrow, BA or Virgin was available for the Today programme to explain what's going on at LHR, which allowed disgrutled passengers make them seem totally incompetant. You would have thought that given the advanced warning of the snow/cold weather that they would have had their Press/Customer Services offices on standby and briefed them with latest plans, as it is from what I've gathered the snow seemed come as surprise. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: BandHcommuter on January 21, 2013, 11:29:57 Understood, many thanks :) You may ... I don't totally. I understand Pewsey and Bedwyn (and that a second journey in the same week can use the same season ticket), but why is the Iver split valid for trains not stopping at Iver? Because rule 19c quoted by bignosemac above requires that one of the tickets in the combination is a season ticket and the others are not. There is nothing to say that the season ticket must abut each join. And if the combination of tickets complies with 19c (noting the use of the word "or" between 19b and 19c) , there is no requirement for the train to call at any of the station(s) where one transfers from one ticket to another. Title: Re: Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares? Post by: JayMac on January 21, 2013, 20:41:10 but why is the Iver split valid for trains not stopping at Iver? Because one of the tickets in the split is a Season. As BandHcommuter says, it matters not how many tickets are used to make a journey. One (and one only) Season in the combination and a journey on through trains from the origin on the first ticket to the destination on the last ticket can be made without having to call at stations where the splits are made. I recently travelled from Plymouth to Swindon via Reading using the following combination:
My first train from Plymouth to Reading didn't call at Tiverton Parkway or Theale. The second train didn't call at Cholsey. No problems encountered using that combination. The original purpose of Condition 19(c) was to allow Season Ticket holders the same right to extend their journey as a holder of a normal ticket. Normal tickets can have their destination changed by means of an Excess Fare. After the excess the ticket becomes a through fare to the new destination with no need for the train you are taking to call at the original destination. Season Tickets can't be excessed in this way for individual single or return journeys, so the only option is to buy separate ticket(s) that abut the Season Ticket and give the holder of the combination the right to travel on trains that don't call at the stations where the tickets abut. Further individual single or return tickets can be added to the combination that don't abut the Season. Thus we have Condition 19(c). That condition can then be used advantageously to save money in certain circumstances, such as those I've highlighted. Within the spirit of the condition? You could argue that it isn't. Within the wording of the condition? Absolutely. And therefore allowed. If you're not comfortable using Condition 19(c) in such a way, then of course you can do a 'normal' split as per Condition 19(b). But that will limit your options to trains that call at the split points. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |