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Title: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: eightf48544 on December 28, 2012, 14:59:57 Getting up the times for Worcester Brighton i clicked on get fares and got this:
11:06 Worcester Shrub Hill [WOS] Platform 1 Brighton (East Sussex) [BTN] Platform 4 15:55 4h 49m chnages 3 11:06 service from Worcester Shrub Hill to Brighton (East Sussex) cheapest fare Single Fare ^37.70 Advance 11:06 Worcester Shrub Hill [WOS] Platform 1 Brighton (East Sussex) [BTN] Platform 2 16:14 5h 08m changes 0 11:06 service from Worcester Shrub Hill to Brighton (East Sussex) Single Fare ^60.50 Off-Peak 12:08 Worcester Shrub Hill [WOS] Platform 2 Brighton (East Sussex) [BTN] Platform 5 16:25 4h 17m changes 2 12:08 service from Worcester Shrub Hill to Brighton (East Sussex) Single Fare ^49.50 Anytime 13:06 Worcester Shrub Hill [WOS] Platform 1 Brighton (East Sussex) [BTN] Platform 3 18:10 5h 04m chnages 3 13:06 service from Worcester Shrub Hill to Brighton (East Sussex) Single Fare ^37.70 Advance 14:09 Worcester Shrub Hill [WOS] Platform 2 Brighton (East Sussex) [BTN] Platform 2 18:28 4h 19m changes 3 14:09 service from Worcester Shrub Hill to Brighton (East Sussex) Single Fare ^49.50 Anytime Why is the Offpeak so much more than the Anytime? The only thing i can see is that the Advanced and Offpeak are routed not Birmingham and Anytime is routed Eversham. Also the 11:06 with the Advanced involves getting the through train to Bristol then Padd and then Farringdon to Brighton (First Group setting the fares?) The 12:08 is Padd and London Bridge on an FCC connection! The 13:06 is Padd via Bristol and then Victoria (Southern) The 14:09 is Padd via Victoria and Hove! (Southern) Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: JayMac on December 28, 2012, 16:38:47 The fares between these two points don't really cater for the direct service and they are also a bit of mess routeing wise. I can't offer an explanation why the Super Off Peak routed +Not Birmingham is more expensive than the Anytime Single routed +London/Evesham. Rather unusually this fare via London is cheaper than the only fare relevant for travel via Salisbury (the +Not Birmingham).
If you want to travel on the direct service as cheaply as possible then I'd suggest looking for Advance Purchase fares from Bristol PW/TM to Brighton and then use an Off Peak Day Single from Worcester FS/SH to Bristol PW/TM. Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: grahame on December 28, 2012, 17:21:30 I can't offer an explanation why the Super Off Peak routed +Not Birmingham is more expensive than the Anytime Single routed +London/Evesham. Rather unusually this fare via London is cheaper than the only fare relevant for travel via Salisbury (the +Not Birmingham). Because the "Evesham" route is entirely in the old Network South East area, and the fare is left over from them days? Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: JayMac on December 28, 2012, 17:29:36 Because the "Evesham" route is entirely in the old Network South East area, and the fare is left over from them days? Could well be. Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: CLPGMS on December 28, 2012, 20:46:19 On a matter of fact, the Cotswold Line (stations from Hanborough to Worcester, inclusive) was never in the Network SouthEast area. This ended at Oxford. However, when Thames Trains took over the route from Regional Railways Central, it succeeded in its application for Hanborough to Worcester to be included in the Network Card (Railcard) area, as this was the only part of its territory which was outside it. As a result, a massive restructuring of fares gradually took place - mostly downwards - to remove anomalies caused by Oxford having a completely different fare structure. In came such fares as Cheap Day Returns to everywhere in the former NSE area and London Travelcards. This is why fares routed "Evesham" are now usually cheaper than other routes to, or via, London. In fact, as Thames Trains controlled the fares to the Network Railcard area beyond Worcester from as far as Hereford, it did try to get Worcester-Hereford included in the Network Railcard area as well. This was turned down, presumably because it would have affected revenue between intermediate stations on the Hereford-Worcester line, for which Central Trains (now London Midland) set the fares. FGW now controls the fares formerly set by Thames Trains, although, for a short while, this was done by First Great Western Link.
Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 28, 2012, 21:18:23 And therein, surely, is the case for scrapping the existing anomaly-ridden fares system and starting again with a clean sheet of paper (or a blank spreadsheet)? ::)
Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: ellendune on December 28, 2012, 22:00:00 And therein, surely, is the case for scrapping the existing anomaly-ridden fares system and starting again with a clean sheet of paper (or a blank spreadsheet)? ::) Couldn't agree more Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 28, 2012, 22:25:02 From the Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rail-ticket-revolution-could-cut-journey-prices-by-up-to-a-third-8432744.html):
Quote Rail ticket 'revolution' could cut journey prices by up to a third Britain is on the verge of a ^rail fares revolution^ that could enable passengers to save millions of pounds on published ticket prices for the first time. Under an agreement reached between ministers and train operating companies, comprehensive ticket price data from across the UK^s railway network is to be made available for free within the next few months. The new information will allow customers travelling on some routes to make savings of more than 30 per cent on current ticket prices ^ without passengers needing to change the train they were intending to take. A journey from Birmingham to Edinburgh taken yesterday, for example, would be almost ^40 cheaper. The Independent understands that a secret report for the Government by the Association of Train Operating Companies (Atoc) estimated that the total potential saving to passengers could be in the ^high tens of millions of pounds^. It will go some way to compensate passengers who face rail fare rises of 4 per cent next year. Under current rules, train companies are not obliged to publicise the cheapest way of getting from one destination to another ^ only the most direct. But because of the UK^s complex fares structure, there are many instances where passengers can save money on the same journey simply by ^splitting^ their ticket. For example, National Rail Enquiries was today quoting a price of ^62 for a single journey from Glasgow to Manchester departing at 12.40pm. However, a customer taking exactly the same trains, could save ^18.30 if they bought two separate tickets ^ one from Glasgow to Oxenholme in the Lake District (^26.50) and another from Oxenholme to Manchester (^17.20) at a total cost of ^43.70. The passenger would not have to get off the train at Oxenholme, but simply show the ticket inspector the relevant ticket for each part of their journey. While the fares data will be too complicated for individuals to process, it will be used by internet developers to create computer and smartphone apps. This will allow passengers to input journey details and automatically find the cheapest fare. It will also permit customers, less worried about the time their journey will take, to achieve even greater savings by calculating longer, cheaper routes between the same stations. For example, the cheapest single journey between Liverpool and London yesterday afternoon on the National Rail Enquiries website cost ^73.30. However, passengers prepared to change trains in Birmingham and spend an hour longer on their journey, could do the same trip for ^53.50 ^ a saving of almost ^20. Jonathan Raper, who runs the transport data company Placr, said: ^At the moment the only information that rail companies provide passengers with is for the most direct route ^ which is often their most profitable ^ so they don^t want people to be made aware of cheaper, slower alternatives,^ he said. Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said: ^People shouldn't need to have a degree to get hold of the cheapest ticket for their journey. That^s why the publication of open fares data will mark a big step forward.^ Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: ellendune on December 28, 2012, 22:27:48 If true I welcome it. In the long term I think it will mean that companies will sort out the anomalies.
Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: CLPGMS on December 29, 2012, 10:21:48 Here's a good example of a journey for which a very large saving can be made - and it is in our area.
If you are travelling from Bath Spa to Kidderminster for a day trip, perhaps for a visit to the Severn Valley Railway, the following fares apply (2013 prices): Bath Spa to Kidderminster (via Worcester) - Off Peak Return - ^57.90 - strangely, it is a little cheaper via Birmingham! Bath Spa to Worcester Stations - Off Peak Day Return - ^17.00. Worcester Stations to Kidderminster - Off Peak Day Return - ^5.70. Total fare by rebooking at Worcester = ^22.70 - a saving of ^35.20. This amounts to 60.8% and you have to change trains at Worcester anyway. Can anyone find any multi-ticket savings of more than 60.8%? Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: JayMac on December 29, 2012, 12:58:45 If travelling Bath Spa-Kidderminster for a day trip it is cheaper still to split at Droitwich Spa.
Bath Spa-Droitwich Spa ^17.00 CDR Droitwich Spa-Kidderminster ^4.70 SDR Total ^21.70. So, that's one that beats 60.8%! I'm sure there are others... Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: grahame on December 29, 2012, 13:22:39 Can anyone find any multi-ticket savings of more than 60.8%? Day trip in the peaks, Melksham to Farnborough Main. Out at 06:38, getting back 19:47. * Direct fare (from Jan) 114.00 * Split: MKM-TRO 4.10 return, and TRO - Farnbourough 27.80 anytime day return. 72% saving by splitting. Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: TonyK on December 29, 2012, 14:48:54 From the Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rail-ticket-revolution-could-cut-journey-prices-by-up-to-a-third-8432744.html): Quote The Independent understands that a secret report for the Government by the Association of Train Operating Companies (Atoc) estimated that the total potential saving to passengers could be in the ^high tens of millions of pounds^. Another way of putting that quote: Quote The Independent understands that a secret report for the Government by the Association of Train Operating Companies (Atoc) estimated that the total potential loss of income to train operating companies could be in the ^high tens of millions of pounds^. That said, I am also keen to see what happens when computer buffs who know more than me are able to use this data. I would expect to see a whole raft of websites like Tickety Split, some offering the information, some offering to book the tickets. With the sort of potential savings shown above, this could undermine the whole stupid fare structure, and force through a simpler and fairer model instead. Who knows, the day may come when we get on the train with so many tickets that ticket agencies print playing cards on the backs, so we can while away the journey playing canasta, whist, or strip poker? Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: Network SouthEast on December 29, 2012, 17:26:24 On a matter of fact, the Cotswold Line (stations from Hanborough to Worcester, inclusive) was never in the Network SouthEast area. This ended at Oxford. What date did the transfer occur on? I thought it transferred from RR to NSE in early 1993.Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: CLPGMS on December 29, 2012, 20:29:05 As far as I can tell, the Cotswold Line was transferred from Regional Railways Central to Thames Trains (then, I believe, a shadow franchise of BR - Managing Director, Roger McDonald) on 1st April 1994. It did not become part of the Network Card area until 28th May 1995.
Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on December 29, 2012, 22:23:49 According to the Network South East Chronological record, Network South East ceased to exist on 31 March 1994. On 1 April 1994 -The Railways Act for rail privatisation takes effect: BR rail infrastructure transferred to the ownership of new company Railtrack; business sectors abolished with 25 new Train Operating Units (TOUs) established covering passenger services - all still owned by BR, but ready for franchising to the private sector as Train Operating Companies; NSE^s nine Divisions reformed into 11 TOUs -of which Thames Trains was one. Wikipedia says "The Thames Trains franchise was awarded by the Director of Passenger Rail Franchising to Victory Rail Holdings, a company owned by Go-Ahead (65%) and some ex British Rail managers (35%), with operations commencing on 13 October 1996. Go-Ahead bought the remaining shares it didn't own in June 1998.
Title: Re: Will Someone Please Explain Post by: thetrout on December 30, 2012, 14:46:20 Quote from: thetrout (previous post on another thread) I punched in Manchester Piccadilly - Bristol Temple Meads First Class Advance and was quoted ^131.00 for the 17:05. But I knew from past experience that splitting on XC does often work, so I punched in: Manchester Piccadilly - Stafford - First Class Advance @ ^17.50 Stafford - Birmingham New Street - First Class Advance @ ^7.00 Birmingham New Street - Cheltenham Spa - First Class Advance @ ^26.00 Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Temple Meads - First Class Advance @ ^14.00 Total ^64.00 Saving of ^67 aka 51.14% and then there is this: I'll get my coat! This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |