Title: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: thetrout on December 06, 2012, 18:04:24 I'm not one to very regularly use my disability as an excuse for my mistakes. But that was undoubtably the case this morning for my blunder at the TVM.
I required a ticket to Trowbridge from Bath Spa. A journey I make regularly but in the reverse order. What's different. As discussed at length in other threads; Trowbridge has no TVM so a human actually sells the ticket! (If you can find one to do so at all ;) ) Anyhow when I pressed the button I was presented with about 8 or 9 different tickets and as I had just queued for nearly 20!minutes and time was marching on I was a little hasty. Confused by the differing tickets and distracted by the announcement of my train shortly to arrive. Mild Anxiety set on and I pressed the first Day Return option I could find. Sod's law states I would have to press the Anytime Day Return didn't I? /grrr Anyway I was going to go into the ticket office and ask but the Twitter Feed has possibly saved the day... Couldn't possibly comment on who's in charge tonight... ;) :D ;D Anyway. Are TVM's a suitable option for people who perhaps need a little (and I use the term very loosely!) "assistance"?? Discuss: Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: trainer on December 06, 2012, 19:10:29 I have no particular special needs, but always feel under pressure if even one person is waiting to use a TVM as I am buying a ticket. I know my way round the system pretty well, although I don't travel as often as some so each encounter is a new learning experience. I regard myself as a fairly confident soul, but the eyes boring into the back of my head and willing me to get on with it do not aid clear thinking. If there is a problem, I instinctively want to ask for help, but of course then I discover that the others waiting are not actually pressuring me at all, but watching to see how it's done, because they've never used a TVM and had hoped that the Yatton ticket office would be open. No wonder so many don't bother and prefer to pay on the train. You have my understanding.
Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: JayMac on December 06, 2012, 19:40:20 Wherever and whenever possible I use a staffed ticket counter. Both for 'on the day' travel and for Advance Purchase. I do occasionally buy Advance Purchase tickets online, but these are for longer journeys where I can't make significant savings on walk up tickets by 'gaming' the fares system.
I don't used staffed ticket counters because of any particular disability (although I do have a couple) but because I'm a firm believer in 'use or lose it'. Given the choice between a TVM and a human, I'll plump for the human most times. If the TVM is limited in acceptance of payment method, I'll conveniently not have the right payment method (no one knows, or can find out, what I do or don't have in my pockets!) and pay elsewhere on the journey, usually on board. My regular start station is neither manned or TVM'd. The on train staff are well versed in providing me with my esoteric ticketing needs! It helps that my anal knowledge of the system means I can clearly state my ticketing needs and sometimes tell the conductor how to find a particular ticket on their machine. Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: BerkshireBugsy on December 06, 2012, 19:41:45 Like trainer I don't have a disability but I curse these machines. Even when the one at my local station(thatcham) is working the touch screen is so temperamental it is very difficult and sometimes impossible to use.
Now I realise that this may seem dramatic but when you consider that my destination station (Reigate) isn't on the list which means having to navigate the virtual keyboard for that and my railcard number. Having done ths it then comes up "card unrecognised" and at ths point I give up having tried my best. Thankfully for most of the time I only need to do ths once a week and I have a collection of consecutive railway tickets to show my payment record. Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: ellendune on December 06, 2012, 21:03:43 I used a TVM at Bristol TM last Saturday, becasue the queue for the humas was going out of the door. I managed to get the options for Bristol to Swindon and then was faced with an array of ticket types and absolutely no guidance as to which was valid. How is that any use to the average prospective passenger.
A couple of years ago I tried one at Koln Hbf. I was trying to buy a ticket to Bonn. I was easily switched to work in English, then when I said where I wanted to go gave me a list of trains togther with the fares, just as the internet booking engines do. It then asked me to select a train and sold me a ticket. Simples. So if DBahn can do it why can't anyone in the UK? Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 06, 2012, 21:36:33 ... particularly when one considers that the Scheidt & Bachmann ticket vending machines used by First Great Western in the UK are actually made in Germany ... ::)
Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: grahame on December 07, 2012, 09:39:03 Interesting thread ... a couple of personal comments
a) I feel pressure when there are people waiting behind me to purchase as quickly as possible, and that feeling of pressure is shared (and thus halved) when buying from a real person b) At times, I have found the wide range of ticket choices confusing, and that the best priced ticket for me, even on a simple journey, required me to move ask for a second page of prices. I know that on Google, only a tiny proportion of people look at the second page of results, and wonder if that's also the case with TVMs c) These days, I have poor eyesight and require the use of a clinical aid (glasses) to make use of a TVM. Should I not be entitled to a disabled rail card, just as someone who requires an aid such as a wheelchair is, or at least be allowed to buy my ticket using voice rather than site? (Intentionally provocative suggestion, this one!) d) TVMs can only provide the tickets I need on a small proporton of occasions; either there's no TVM available, or I'm buying in advance in anticipation of a journey that starts from another station, or I'm splitting. e) There's no button on a TVM labelled "is this valid on the 19:00 train back this evening", nor "is there another option for travel on these trains which will cost me less?" f) If I know what I need, and / or it's easy to select what I need and have any ancilliary questions answered, and I don't feel I'm delaying others, I'm perfectly happy to use an automated system. In our own business ... i) we have an automated booking system for hotel rooms which a high proportion of people, especially returning guests, use. We strive for efficiency, clarity and simplicity, and look to cover virtually every base, and we have a phone line to a real person that can always be used to book, query, or even change an automeated booking. And we do NOT require that customers turn up with a piece of cardboard to proove that they have booked / paid. ii) we have an automated system for training courses which we scarsely ever use. A few customers prefer to use such a system, but the majority want to discuss their needs and ensure that they are buying the product that's right for them, and the options we offer are so wide that such a discussion ofetn results in them buying a better product for them than they might have selected, often at a lower price. Railwaywise, TVMs can have their place - ideal for common tickets within a straightforward system where the users are confident of what they need. But IMHO they need backing up by dynamic / human staffed point of sales alternatives. The easier you make the ticketing regime, the more TVMs - be they via your home printer or at the station, (or swipe in / swipe out systems) can provide an excellent service for the regular, confident customer. And the human approach can be used for the more specialised requirements, and for the marketing of product by building customer knowledge and confidence. In West Wilts, journey numbers have increase by 80% in 10 years; encouraging new customers by having a human interface to the railways can help it grow a further 80% in the next 10 years. Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: eightf48544 on December 07, 2012, 10:47:02 A couple of years ago I tried one at Koln Hbf. I was trying to buy a ticket to Bonn. I was easily switched to work in English, then when I said where I wanted to go gave me a list of trains togther with the fares, just as the internet booking engines do. It then asked me to select a train and sold me a ticket. Simples. So if DBahn can do it why can't anyone in the UK? ... particularly when one considers that the Scheidt & Bachmann ticket vending machines used by First Great Western in the UK are actually made in Germany ... ::) The problem is that Germany has a relatively simple fare structure IC/ICE/EC are one price and another usually cheaper one for RE RB's & S bahn . Most large towns have combined tickets for all public transport ( excluding ICs similar to the a London Travel card.For longer regional journeys there is the Lander card which allows unlimted travel on REs etc after 09:00 weekdays and all day weekend for 1 to 5 people although you have to state how many are travelling (and pay 2E each extra) and stick together. Some cover more than one Lander and thus huge areas. Such as Neidersachensen, Thuringur Sachsen. There is also the Schines Wockends which ois similar to the Lander but covers the whole of Germany and parts of Czech Republic and Poland Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: swrural on December 07, 2012, 11:34:26 Yes, in italy we used machines at Rome Termini (but not on arrival at Fiumicino airport late at night which were OOO
:( ). We got a bit worried at Termini because there were two types of TVM, one for intercity and one for local / regional railway trips. We tried the regional one (long queue of 'lost souls' at the other) and it sold tickets for the inter city but the tickets looked different to the ones we had noticed coming out of the other so we were a bit worried when we got on the next day but all was fine. Incidentally first class was only a trifle dearer (30% was it?) so it's always worth choosing in Italy IMO. I've used the TVM at Axminster but once. We had booked our tickets on the net and just had numbers to punch in. So we were just picking up what we had already bought. The trouble was, we had the same 'lost souls' to queue behind as we had found at Rome (they are everywhere thus) and as the minutes ticked by, I began to see that our day would be ruined (we had but one connection at Exeter St D to get the Sunday train to Okehampton (nice trip, try it sometime). Eventually after the next groan ('oh what have I done now') I pleaded to queue-jump, and we made it with a minute to go. It was my first attempt at this and I was rather proud that I managed without panicking. I presume our kind queue colleagues probably abandoned and just got on another train (they cross at Axminster nowadays). All this sort of thing just reinforces the Steve Norris view of public transport. Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: Tim on December 07, 2012, 12:07:36 First simplify the ticketing system then regardless of retail route, disability or whatever buying a ticket will be easier.
Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: grahame on December 07, 2012, 12:10:11 Have a look at http://www.flickr.com/photos/janepbr/3340254241/in/photostream/ for an ideal ticket machine. Walk up, and it clearly lists destinations covered. Put your money in, and it gives you the ticket. Perhaps we have taken 10 steps forward and 25 back?
Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: swrural on December 07, 2012, 14:01:32 Yes, I forgot to mention my extensive experience with Dutch TVMs (as I now understand I must call them).
Simplicity itself, like lots of stuff there. You do have to pay extra now if you want to buy from a ticket office. The only snag over there is the newer 'Oyster' type system - OV kaart (PT card) which, if you go by rail, you have to load with ^20 at least otherwise you can't use it. You can for the buses. So NS has a nice little cash flow bonus. I can't remember whether you only check in and out once on a combined bus and rail trip. The apeing of our privatisation in the EU countries is causing a lot of resentment and the high handed attitude by cancelling the AMS -BRU inter-cities and making everyone go by Fyra (at extra cost) is the latest example - whoops, sorry, different thread. But international comparisons can be a useful tool to whack over the head of our own system providers. Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: bobm on December 07, 2012, 14:02:46 Have a look at http://www.flickr.com/photos/janepbr/3340254241/in/photostream/ for an ideal ticket machine. Walk up, and it clearly lists destinations covered. Put your money in, and it gives you the ticket. Perhaps we have taken 10 steps forward and 25 back? Goodness me that brings back memories. I can remember as a schoolboy in Reading occasionally getting the train from Reading to Reading West for either 4d or 4p (child single). I felt very important queuing up with all these businessmen buying their tickets to Paddington (did no-one buy season tickets in those days?) The ticket clerk used to have a huge machine behind him which he seemed to slide a cursor along to produce the ticket - it looked a bit like a giant slide rule. No idea how it worked but I got my ticket and off I went for my four minute journey! Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: BerkshireBugsy on December 07, 2012, 14:08:06 Goodness me that brings back memories. The ticket clerk used to have a huge machine behind him which he seemed to slide a cursor along to produce the ticket - it looked a bit like a giant slide rule. No idea how it worked but I got my ticket and off I went for my four minute journey! 4 minutes?! Eyelad you were lucky..I used to have to get up 15 minutes before I went to bed...live in shoebox in t'middle of the road...You try telling that to the kids of the day :) Loved the picture BTW..that did bring back memories! I seem to remember there was a machine on one of the stations that allowed you to emboss words on a metal tape (a bit like dymo labelling used to be). Nothing to do with train tickets but good fun! Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: Southern Stag on December 07, 2012, 15:15:59 d) TVMs can only provide the tickets I need on a small proporton of occasions; either there's no TVM available, or I'm buying in advance in anticipation of a journey that starts from another station, or I'm splitting. Selling tickets with another origin station is something TVMs in this country can do. Southern have it enabled on their TVMs, there's a button on the screen which says something like tickets from other origins. I believe somebody asked SWT if they had plans to implement the feature on one of their websites, and they said they are aware of it but have no plans to implement it on their network.Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: grahame on December 07, 2012, 15:23:48 d) TVMs can only provide the tickets I need on a small proporton of occasions; either there's no TVM available, or I'm buying in advance in anticipation of a journey that starts from another station, or I'm splitting. Selling tickets with another origin station is something TVMs in this country can do. Southern have it enabled on their TVMs, there's a button on the screen which says something like tickets from other origins. [snip] ...Didn't realise that - I stand corrected. I should have written: d) TVMs at the stations I use are only programmed to provide the tickets I need on a small proporton of occasions; either there's no TVM available, or I'm buying in advance in anticipation of a journey that starts from another station and the machine isn't a Southern one, or I'm splitting. :D Really has the same effect, though - it's won't rather than can't and I still can't use the machine unless I web program it in advance and then collect my tickets hours later. Title: Re: TVM vs. Disability Post by: swrural on December 07, 2012, 20:07:13 My earlier post had too many typos, apologies.
I just do not think it is appropriate either to force people to use machines, or to make life hell for them (see half hour queues to get out of terminus stations). There has to be a method for wayside stations (Keynsham - wayside?) that stops this rot, and if the GW franchise has to be re-bid, I hope this particular inhumanity will be addressed (I did say hope). Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 07, 2012, 20:17:04 ... TVMs (as I now understand I must call them) ... No problem, swrural - and, as we have several members here who have been known to point out that we collectively are perhaps a little too ready to use abbreviations without considering our less expert audience, I've taken the liberty of renaming this whole topic with the full name. Hope this helps - with my apologies to 'thetrout' for renaming his topic. :-[ Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: Brucey on December 07, 2012, 20:36:21 Have a look at http://www.flickr.com/photos/janepbr/3340254241/in/photostream/ for an ideal ticket machine. Walk up, and it clearly lists destinations covered. Put your money in, and it gives you the ticket. Perhaps we have taken 10 steps forward and 25 back? Machines this simple still exist in London. Choose your destination, feed it ^4.30 then collect ticket. No different ticket types, no returns, no routeing options and no peak restrictions. Unfortunately this "easy to use" system never works out cheapest.Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: JayMac on December 07, 2012, 21:07:05 And a very simple machine existed, all too briefly before being trashed, at Clifton Down station. I see little hope of it being repaired or replaced.
Title: Re: Ticket Vending Machines vs. Disability Post by: TonyK on December 07, 2012, 21:32:27 And a very simple machine existed, all too briefly before being trashed, at Clifton Down station. I see little hope of it being repaired or replaced. I saw that when passing through. That poor machine looked very vulnerable. I reckon the damage would have taken a fair time to perpetrate, always a risk at an unmanned station without alarms or CCTV. The matter of ticket purchase needs some imaginative reworking. If we can buy tickets via the Internet, we should be able to home-print or have a readable code sent to our mobile phone. I am sure disabled people especially would welcome anything that gives a chance to buy a ticket from the comfort of an armchair, without the hassle of queueing at either a machine or a counter. I also like Blackpool Tram's (http://www.blackpooltransport.com/Savers.aspx) idea. A day rover ticket covering the trams and buses can be bought on a tram from the conductor, for ^4.50. The same can also be bought at Pay Point shops for ^3.50, as can a variety of group tickets. The Flexity 2's hold over 200 people, and are heavily used. A lone conductor is all that is needed to check all tickets and collect fares from anyone who doesn't like a discount. For lines such as the Severn Beach line, with very low fares, lots of passengers, and very short gaps between unmanned stations, such a scheme would be good for revenue protection. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |