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Title: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: bobm on August 29, 2012, 15:23:54 From Newbury Weekly News (http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/2012/west-berkshire-commuters-fear-for-the-future-of-rail-services)
Quote COMMUTERS west of Newbury could face nightmare journeys to work, despite a rail users^ campaign. The Bedwyn Trains Passenger Group (BTPG) has long warned that by 2016 the railway line from Paddington to Newbury will be electrified and that diesel trains that currently run between Paddington and Reading will be phased out. Now, in their response to the Great Western Franchise Invitation To Tender (ITT), campaigners warn that the department for Transport (Dft) appears to have ignored the Berks and Hants line, ^and in particular stations west of Newbury, in all of these improvements.^ In its reponse to the ITT, the BTPG states: ^We had been fairly optimistic that the views of the many stakeholders (including BTPG) would be taken into account regarding the Paddington/Bedwyn service in particular. ^It should be noted that two per cent of respondents to the consultation cited the increase/retention of Bedwyn services as specific aspirations. Given the size of the Great Western region, two per cent is a significant proportion^ The new franchise starts from July 2013 and the ITT indicates that electric services to Newbury will commence from December 2016. BTPG fears that the Train Service Requirement (TSR) does not appear to make any differentiation between service patterns before and after electrification on the Berks and Hants line. The electrification of the rail line between London and South Wales will mean faster travel times for rail passengers using that route. However electrification of the line will stop at Newbury, and rail users on the Berks and Hants Line, on which the Bedwyn-to-Paddington trains run, fear a reduction of services at Hungerford, Kintbury and Bedwyn. Campaigners also fear the lack of ticket purchasing facilities at Bedwyn and Kintbury, coupled with the lack of onboard ticket sellers, would leave passengers obliged to queue at Newbury^s ticket office for their ticket, potentially resulting in missed connections. Newbury Labour Party spokesman Richard Garvie said the downgrading of Hungerford, Kintbury and Bedwyn stations would be ^potentially another nail in the coffin for West Berkshire rail services.^ BTPG spokeswoman Karine Nicholson said: ^As diesel trains will not be allowed to run between Paddington and Reading, Bedwyn, Hungerford and Kintbury will be put on a diesel shuttle service to and from either Reading or Newbury. ^This will mean longer journey times, especially with the possible addition of smaller stations such as Newbury Racecourse, Midgham and Aldermaston onto this ^shuttle^ service.^ BTGP wants the inclusion of semi-fast trains between Paddington and Bedwyn to be written into the ITT terms and for through trains to continue to operate to and from Bedwyn, Hungerford and Kintbury at roughly the same level as at present. Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: ChrisB on August 29, 2012, 15:53:12 They're probably not wrong, either.
Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: paul7575 on August 29, 2012, 16:12:47 The intention of the earlier GWML RUS was to serve those stations with a semifast IEP service, as discussed in other threads here.
That is probably what should have been translated explicitly into the ITT - instead you just have some weasel words about making full use of the IEP fleet by May 2018, and carrying out the proposals in the RUS, which possibly isn't specific enough. This bit: Quote BTPG spokeswoman Karine Nicholson said: ^As diesel trains will not be allowed to run between Paddington and Reading, Bedwyn, Hungerford and Kintbury will be put on a diesel shuttle service to and from either Reading or Newbury. ...is definitely not correct though, because Devon and Cornwall HSTs will still be running out of Paddington. Services beyond Newbury are ideally suited to bi-mode IEPs, which can run on AC east of Newbury. Paul Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: Btline on August 29, 2012, 16:22:04 Why didn't they just extend the wires to Bedwyn - the NSE boundary for commuter services?
And they're talking nonsense - plenty of diesel trains will still run to Devon, Cornwall, Gloucester and Banbury. I wish people wouldn't make up scaremongering rubbish! It is true that the service may change. Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: Electric train on August 29, 2012, 16:40:09 Why didn't they just extend the wires to Bedwyn - the NSE boundary for commuter services? To achieve the electrical feeding to Bedwyn it would require a grid intake in the Newbury area current plans are to feed down to Newbury from Didcot or London when Southcote Jcn to Southampton is wired a new Grid intake in the Basingstoke area will be built this would still not reliably feed to Bedwyn and alas the level of service to Bedwyn does not warrant the cost. Since TT ceased West Berks passengers have enjoyed a fast service from Reading with a stop at Slough to avoid crossing from Main to Relief at Reading where as in TT days the service ran on the Relief Lines and ran as a semi fast. Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: IndustryInsider on August 29, 2012, 17:08:45 The intention of the earlier GWML RUS was to serve those stations with a semifast IEP service, as discussed in other threads here. That is probably what should have been translated explicitly into the ITT - instead you just have some weasel words about making full use of the IEP fleet by May 2018, and carrying out the proposals in the RUS, which possibly isn't specific enough. It certainly wouldn't be specific enough to me if I were a Hungerford, Kintbury or Bedwyn passenger. I too would be lobbying for more detailed information and a guarantee of an acceptable service. It would be nice to see a 5-car Bi-mode IEP running an off-peak service from Paddington on an hourly basis calling at Maidenhead, Reading, Theale, Thatcham, Newbury, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn, Pewsey and Westbury. Alternative trains could then perhaps continue to Exeter calling at Castle Cary, Taunton, Tiverton, and Exeter. That might allow a reduction in calling points of the long distance services to the west of England that currently call at Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury and the like. The odd service could also run to/from Frome. Whether that sort of service would add up financially though is a different question, and if I was 'Mr. Worried' of Kintbury then I would be fearing that what will happen instead is there will be a shuttle Turbo from Bedwyn to either Newbury or Reading in place of those services currently operated by through Turbo services. Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: bobm on August 29, 2012, 17:19:06 I wish people wouldn't make up scaremongering rubbish! Oh how I agree. ....a new Grid intake in the Basingstoke area will be built... I assume that is based around the National Grid switching unit at Bramley. There is another one at Melksham - I assume that is too far the other way. On a wider point - if the system relies on only a few electrical "inputs" isn't that a weakness? If one fails then a wide area will come to a grinding halt won't it? Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: BandHcommuter on August 29, 2012, 17:24:45 Unless I am reading it incorrectly, the train service specification for the new franchise does not appear to require any operation of through services from Bedwyn, Hungerford or Kintbury to either Reading or London, although there is nothing to stop bidders offering through services to fulfil the overall requirement should they wish to. The same applies to Weston Super Mare and Hereford (and possibly other destinations). I can also see no differentiation between the pre-electrification and post-electrification service requirement on these routes, so the West Berks commuters' worries might also apply to the pre-electrification service.
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/rail-passenger-franchise-great-western/a-service-requirement.pdf Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: TonyK on August 29, 2012, 17:37:51 They're probably not wrong, either. What's wrong with a Pacer shuttle service to Newbury? It works for Weston super Mare. Then again, it doesn't. I heard Justine Greening on Radio 4 yesterday, there to talk about high speed rail. First ten questions about high speed rail that she was asked were about a third runway at Heathrow. I seldom feel for a minister, especially not a Tory one, but she did manage to say that if a third runway was built, the next question would be about a fourth. So it is with electrification - do it to Newbury, then why not Kintbury / Bedwyn / Sidmouth? The best answer is: "We will do what we have announced so far, using the ^23 million electrification train we have commissioned from that German company. When we have finished that, in 2018 if nothing goes wrong, we will tell them to stay where they are whilst we count the pennies, then might crack on with the rest of the national rail network, bit by bit." Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: bobm on August 29, 2012, 18:06:53 So it is with electrification - do it to Newbury, then why not Kintbury / Bedwyn / Sidmouth? That would require some track relaying too! ;D Sidmouth Railway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidmouth_Railway) Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: Electric train on August 29, 2012, 18:32:39 I wish people wouldn't make up scaremongering rubbish! Oh how I agree. ....a new Grid intake in the Basingstoke area will be built... I assume that is based around the National Grid switching unit at Bramley. There is another one at Melksham - I assume that is too far the other way. On a wider point - if the system relies on only a few electrical "inputs" isn't that a weakness? If one fails then a wide area will come to a grinding halt won't it? The GWML (as with all new 25kV systems) devise its supply from the 275 / 400kV National Grid this is a high level supply with the greatest level of security. Once on the railway a 50kV (25 - 0 - 25 kV) system is used as a transmission system at regular intervals Auto Transformer Feeder Stations are installed to a) section the system b) to provide voltage regulation. By using 50kV instead of 25kV grid sites can be at 50 to 60 miles instead of the 25 to 30 with the classic 25kV system. (The ECML's classic system is being upgraded from Wood Green to Doncaster, the WCML has mainly been done, MML has been from Kentish Town to just North of Radlet and of course HS1 was built as 50kV system) Note the trains are still 25kV Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 29, 2012, 20:46:26 And they're talking nonsense ... I wish people wouldn't make up scaremongering rubbish! I'm sure people wouldn't do that on this forum, would they, Btline?? :o ::) ;D Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: TonyK on August 30, 2012, 21:19:15 So it is with electrification - do it to Newbury, then why not Kintbury / Bedwyn / Sidmouth? That would require some track relaying too! ;D Sidmouth Railway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidmouth_Railway) I know, but it would be a lovely ride from Exmuff. Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: Rhydgaled on August 31, 2012, 07:55:13 The intention of the earlier GWML RUS was to serve those stations with a semifast IEP service, as discussed in other threads here. Not sure about the IEP part, but I'd say that bi-mode is probably the answer. My opinion is the number of bi-mode diagrams on the GreatWestern franchise (the only other franchise which should have any being XC) should be the number required to run the proposed Paddington - Westbury semi-fast (with extensions beyond Westbury diagramed for class 180s) and the Paddington - Worcester/Hereford services, no more, no less. The problem is the formation of those bi-mode sets, 7-car might be enough for the off-wire section but probably not between Oxford/Reading and PAD. Really I think they should be bi-mode 221s not IEPs (the latter should be all-electric, I don't want any more DGICMUs* built) but you have the problem of 221s having rather a lot of wasted space (disabled toilets etc.) so you don't get as many seats as you would like without destroying comfort.... Services beyond Newbury are ideally suited to bi-mode IEPs, which can run on AC east of Newbury. *Diesel-Guzzling InterCity Multiple Units Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on August 31, 2012, 09:25:55 According to an article in the September issue of Modern Railways, the Greater Western fleet of IEP/SET trains will be made up of 21 sets of 9-car electric mode trains (working 18 diagrams) and 36 sets of 5-car bi-mode trains (working 32 diagrams). Assuming the the 9-car all electrics will service London to Bristol and Swansea, that means there will be lots of bi-mode trains to serve the lesser routes. I would have though that 2 of the diagrams out of 32 total could well be allocated to the London to West Berkshire stations, posssibly connecting to another 5-car bi-mode at Reading going onto London. The same might apply at off-peak times for London to Cotswolds. The same worries that West Berks rail users have also apply to Cotswold Line rail users where there is a fear that travel to the Cotswold Line from London might mean more changing at Oxford. Perhaps these concerns should be raised with FGW senior management for their comments as they will (or should) have been consulted in the IEP contract specification. Some clarification about where the new IEP/SET trains are likely to be used ought to be made public.
Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: eightf48544 on August 31, 2012, 10:12:14 Just to add to the complications of service planning for the B&H and Cotswiold line with electrification there is the issue of Crossrail in the Inner Thames Valley. If as still seems to be case Crossrail operates an all stations stopping service to Maidenhead then there is a need for at least a Reading to Paddington semi fast service to cater for the people from West of Reading and Reading and Twyford who commute to Maidenhead, Slough, Hayes and Ealing.
What worrys me is that Taplow and Burnham will lose their through Reading trains with Crossrail requiring a change at Maidenhead thus losing the ability to travel to many parts of country with one change at Reading. Although the advent of Vomiters vice 47/8 s and Mark 2 and HSTs makes that option less attractive for Birmingham and Northwards. The Socialogical aspects of people chosing to live in certain area and travel by train does not seem to figure in current thinking. I am sure many people have chosen to live West of Newbury and Oxford because there are through trains to Reading/London. Grahame has remarked on this issue in many threads particulary as regards to Melksham where a growing usage was devestated with the last franchise change. It has also happened I believe at places like Willingtin and stations on the Nottingham Lincoln line. So I have a lot of sympathy with the residents of Kintbury Hungerford nad Bedwyn and those on the Cotswold line over the uncertainty of how they will get to work.. Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: BandHcommuter on August 31, 2012, 10:50:17 What worrys me is that Taplow and Burnham will lose their through Reading trains with Crossrail requiring a change at Maidenhead thus losing the ability to travel to many parts of country with one change at Reading. Although the advent of Vomiters vice 47/8 s and Mark 2 and HSTs makes that option less attractive for Birmingham and Northwards. The specification for the new Great Western franchise still requires the TOC to call 46 trains a day at both Burnham and Taplow after Crossrail is fully operational. See table 2.1 in the service requirement on the DfT website. http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/rail-passenger-franchise-great-western/a-service-requirement.pdf (http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/rail-passenger-franchise-great-western/a-service-requirement.pdf). I imagine that these trains would operate to/from Reading. I think I read about a potential Reading to Slough shuttle somewhere. Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on September 01, 2012, 17:02:10 eightf48544 is quite correct in the statement that many commuters have chosen to live in the West Berks & Cotswolds area because of the train services. My familarity is with Hanborough on the CL and I know that much of the growth in the use of Hanborough has come from people relocating home the London outer suburban areas and east Berkshire because the prices of housing has been escalating beyond many peoples incomes. I recall talking to a newcomer at Hanborough who had relocated from Wokingham to east Witney, about a 5 mile drive from Hanborough done in about 10 minutes. He said that he had wanted to move to a larger home (expanding family) and discovered that the lower costs of the home he wanted would reduce his mortgage costs so much that he could afford the extra costs of his annual season ticket to London. Moreover, the travel time between Hanborough and Paddington is not that different than from Wokingham to Waterloo due to the slower trains and many more station stops. I suspect that the case is similar in West Berks and is likely to be the case at Bicester for commuting to Marylebone.
Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: Btline on September 01, 2012, 20:58:28 What a complete mess of services the Thames Valley will have - all because Xrail doesn't just get extended to Reading!
Title: Re: West Berks Commuters worries over post-electrification service Post by: grahame on October 05, 2012, 08:42:36 I have split off a topic covering concerns about the stations in Wiltshire (Bedwyn, Pewsey and Westbury) served by the Berks and Hants line - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=11361.0
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