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Title: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 27, 2012, 15:43:47 From the Slough & South Bucks Observer (http://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/slough/articles/2012/08/27/62139-fouryearold-left-on-train-after-doors-close/):
Quote A mother fears she will never travel on a train with her child again after watching a train leave the station with her four-year-old daughter still onboard. Christina Parker, from Burnham, was returning home from a trip to Windsor with her daughter Chantel and sister Nikki Parker when the incident happened. When the First Great Western train arrived at Burnham station on Wednesday, August 1, Miss Parker unloaded her bags and pushchair and turned to pick up her daughter only to find the train doors had shut behind her. Despite efforts to raise the alarm, the train departed with Chantel still onboard with her aunt. The pair got off at the next station - Taplow - and got a taxi back to the family home in Cleares Pasture. Miss Parker said: "If a child gets separated from their parent on the train, anything could happen to them. They could be abducted or injure themselves or even fall onto the train tracks. It was very lucky my sister was still on the train with my little one or else anything could have happened." Miss Parker was given a ^10 voucher by First Great Western as a gesture of goodwill, but the 20-year-old added: "It would be nice if the train company could do something to make it safer for children and their parents. I would not want to travel on the trains with my child again after this." A First Group spokesman said: "Prior to the doors closing, there is a clear and audible warning. I do not understand why the customer did not hear the noise. We are investigating further." The spokesman added that Miss Parker had been offered free train travel more than the value of her initial ticket and had been offered reimbursement for the cost of the taxi fare. Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: JayMac on August 28, 2012, 01:29:55 There is but a few seconds between the hustle alarm sounding and the doors closing. It's sufficient time to ensure you are not going to be trapped in closing doors, but nowhere near enough time to continue unloading your pushchair and child.
The comments from the FGW spokesman appear to be putting some blame on the mother. That despite this not being the first occasion a mother has been separated from a child on a FGW DOO service. Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: eightf48544 on August 28, 2012, 08:34:15 Didn't this happen before also at Burnham?
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: bobm on August 28, 2012, 09:49:09 It did indeed
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9366.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9366.0) Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: BerkshireBugsy on August 28, 2012, 11:04:40 It did indeed http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9366.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9366.0) I have read both this thread and the linked thread with interest. One thing that appearrs clear is that forum members disagree on whether leaving a child on the platform constitutes an emergency. IMHO if my 7 year old son was left on the platform and I was on the train I would consider it an emergency. I would be interested to know what the TOCs position would be on this. I am guessing each use of the emergency stop facility must be reviewed to determine if it has been improperly used. Dave Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: eightf48544 on August 28, 2012, 16:14:53 I think that any TOC would consider pulling the Emergency Handle in these circumstances to be justified. They wouldn't want the adverse publicity they'd get if they tried to prosecute.
Interesting that both incidents were at Burnhamn wonder if it's to do with it being an island paltform and the driver has to open the right hand side doors. The only station between Paddington and Reading where this required for the regular service. Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: SandTEngineer on August 28, 2012, 17:37:53 ....hey hang on a minute. The child wasn't left behind on the train by itself :-\ Two people got overcarried, thats all ::)
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: bobm on August 28, 2012, 17:44:42 I agree SandT. Fifteen minutes of fame....
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: eightf48544 on August 29, 2012, 08:38:49 Agreed but the point is why were they overcarried? The driver was either a bit too quick or the passengers very slow.
For the general public whoever is at fault the blame will lie with the TOC it comes with the territory. Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 29, 2012, 09:42:59 And with over a million people using Burnham station every year, you will occasionally get incidents like this happening I'm afraid. If it was happening every week at all the stations on FGW then there would be a serious issue to address, but it is very rare.
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: SandTEngineer on August 29, 2012, 17:53:29 .....well I'm sorry but this has really wound me up >:( Station stops such as at Burnham are generally 30 seconds. Whenever I use the train I'm always near a door ready to get off well before the station stop. You can't expect the driver to wait in case somebody is a little bit slow in moving...the timetable would just fall apart.
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: bobm on August 29, 2012, 18:08:40 I agree with you S&T - but these days bus operators seem to encourage people to remain in their seats until the bus stops and I think it has rubbed off on some people when using the train.
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: SandTEngineer on August 29, 2012, 20:51:25 I agree with you S&T - but these days bus operators seem to encourage people to remain in their seats until the bus stops and I think it has rubbed off on some people when using the train. .....I'm not surprised about that based upon experience from some of my more recent bus trips..... :P Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: johoare on August 29, 2012, 21:07:34 I guess she was lucky/less worried as she knew that her Sister was staying on the train otherwise I imagine she might have had her four year old in the (otherwise empty) push chair before she took that off the train.. I am pretty sure she wouldn't have left her on her daughter on a train otherwise...
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: eightf48544 on August 30, 2012, 09:29:06 I'm interested in S&T's views it reflects very much what was prelevent when I worked on the Southern in the 60s. Namely that we could run a very good railway if we didn't have any passnegers.
That's why it's very much easier to shift 2000 tons of aggregate (unless the brakes fail) than 2000 plus passengers a day from from Burnham. Plus ^a change (plus c'est la m^me chose). Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: BerkshireBugsy on August 30, 2012, 13:50:01 .....well I'm sorry but this has really wound me up >:( Station stops such as at Burnham are generally 30 seconds. Whenever I use the train I'm always near a door ready to get off well before the station stop. You can't expect the driver to wait in case somebody is a little bit slow in moving...the timetable would just fall apart. One of the good things about a forum like this is it allows users to exchange opinions. I have to say that although I plan my exit from the services I use in order to avoid passengers that "faf" I also understand that in some situations it will take passengers longer to exit than at other times. Sometimes this can be due to circumstances outside of their control. It is not unusual, on the North Downs Line for example, for passengers to take longer to exit a train because people waiting to board won't give them a clear route though. Maybe we should just have a timer on the doors which only opened the doors for a specific period of time come what may and, like I believe has been suggested, sod the passengers. Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on August 30, 2012, 15:32:39 The bus comparison is interesting. On the bus I get into Reading sometimes not only do some people not even start to move out of their seats until the bus has stopped, but the driver won't move away from bus stops until everyone has sat down! So I agree with bobm that non-regular passengers just don't realise that some train stops are pretty short (I wonder how they manage on the tube?)
Maybe we'll have to add yet another train announcement - "we are now approaching [station] - if you are leaving the train here, please be ready to alight (or "get off", as more people know what that means) as soon as the train arrives as it may only stop for a short time". Not forgetting to mind the gap and making sure you have all your personal belongings (including children) with you etc. The nanny state..... Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: bobm on August 30, 2012, 15:45:05 On some buses I have caught recently - including First in Bracknell - there are actually signs up telling you not to leave your seat until the bus has reached the stop.
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 30, 2012, 16:34:18 The first generation of automated Turbo announcements asked you to remain seated until the train had come to a stand. Quite amusing if you were on a packed train.
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: Southern Stag on August 30, 2012, 21:26:16 SWT's system makes an announcement telling people to remain seated if a train is going to couple up to another at a station, perhaps quite sensible advice though. There can be a bit of a jolt, and if you aren't expecting it I suspect it could throw you off your feet.
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: Western Explorer on December 29, 2012, 15:10:36 Maybe we'll have to add yet another train announcement - "we are now approaching [station] - if you are leaving the train here, please be ready to alight (or "get off", as more people know what that means) as soon as the train arrives as it may only stop for a short time". Not forgetting to mind the gap and making sure you have all your personal belongings (including children) with you etc. The nanny state..... And not forgetting to take a moment to read the important safety information in the vestibule. Has any passenger (sorry, customer) ever been seen to get up and read the safety notices as a result of such an announcement? At least they now use "in the vestibule" instead of "which are located / adjacent to the / train doors" which took three passes to display on the old system. Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: thetrout on December 30, 2012, 17:35:37 Forgive me for being completely callous as I have no idea as to the circumstances and I feel a bit out of order for suggesting this...
But hypothetically speaking... Perhaps the younger generation should learn to "put something on the end of it?!?!" 20 year old with a 4 year old kid... Does anyone else suspect that something not quite correct in the eyes of the law happened there? In also seriousness though... Maybe headphones were a key factor... Would certainly explain not hearing the alarm... But also does every passenger know what the audible alarm actually means? *Leaves large pile of brown smelly stuff in front of and switches on industrial sized fan and legs it* Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: trainer on December 30, 2012, 19:07:28 There seems to be a thread of opinion from some in this topic in which certain kinds of people are not welcome to travel by train unless they want to fall foul of the short stopping time of some trains. 1st - don't have a mobility problem that means you can't get to the door in time to leap off. 2nd - don't travel unless you fully understand that a train is not like a bus 3rd - don't travel if you cannot single-mindedly concentrate on the business of boarding and alighting from the train. 4th - don't travel if you are a young parent or perhaps have other impediments of character caused by the fecklessness which is youth.
I would be happy to be rid of all drunk and noisome foul-mouthed passengers, but we need to tolerate some human foibles if the trains are to carry people like me. Or perhaps old curmudgeons are not to be encouraged either. ::) Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: swrural on December 30, 2012, 19:48:00 With you Trainer. Of course there was a time..... yes when the porter (remember them?) would have signalled to the guard (remember them?) when it was safe to start the train. Watch Mr Perks do it (oops, another thread).
Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: thetrout on December 30, 2012, 20:41:40 I'm siding with trainer here too. Having read my post I think it was a little harsh (and I am normally of the type bearing in mind my own disabilities who is perhaps a lot more tolerant than most...*)
But purely speculating having read the article CfN kindly linked, it does state this: Quote A First Group spokesman said: "Prior to the doors closing, there is a clear and audible warning. I do not understand why the customer did not hear the noise. We are investigating further." I strongly suspect it was Headphones with music blaring so loudly that perhaps the mother didn't hear the audible alarm?? If anyone has alternatives to suggest, I'm all ears (No pun intended ;D ) but if you listen to this... Perhaps I'm not at all far from the truth :-[ :-X :-\ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRkZd34uhE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRkZd34uhE) * Sadly become a lot less tolerant due to increasing issues with my disability making me very, very grumpy. Once I've had my operation I'll be back to normality and being nice ;) :) * edit * Perhaps CfN would like to use that link in his signature... It would suit his current one very nicely... :( Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: John R on December 30, 2012, 20:43:53 I'd agree with the comment that the stroy is somewhat sensationist as "4 yr old separated from her mother" loses a bit of its impact when you realise that she was still with her aunt. However, the slightly troubling point for me is this comment:-
Despite efforts to raise the alarm, the train departed with Chantel still onboard with her aunt. Now we don't know how the mother attempted to raise the alarm, but I suspect it involved a certain amount of hand waving and very anxious behaviour around the door that she had just seen closing. So what judgement call was made by whoever was responsible for the safe departure of the train (not sure who it would have been in this case)? Given the fatality in Liverpool last year, we can see that every day despatchers or train crew have to make decisions as to whether something is an emergency, and delay the departure, or whether to let the service go. Withough seeing what happened it is impossible to tell, but I would have hoped FGW would have reviewed any CCTV so determine whether the crew's actions were appropriate. Title: Re: Four-year-old left on train after doors close - Burnham Station, 1 August 2012 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 30, 2012, 21:28:01 I strongly suspect it was Headphones with music blaring so loudly that perhaps the mother didn't hear the audible alarm?? If anyone has alternatives to suggest, I'm all ears (No pun intended ;D ) but if you listen to this... Perhaps I'm not at all far from the truth :-[ :-X :-\ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRkZd34uhE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRkZd34uhE) * edit * Perhaps CfN would like to use that link in his signature... It would suit his current one very nicely... :( My concerns over the potential dangers of people using headphones to the exclusion of any external warnings of danger are perhaps best set out here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10234.0 As I said there: RIP Katie Littlewood. :( This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |