Title: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: FarWestJohn on May 25, 2011, 09:03:26 There is talk about the helicopter link to Scilly moving to St.Erth from Penzance.
'THE HELICOPTER link to the Isles of Scilly could be retained in west Cornwall after a deal was struck for an alternative site in St Erth. British International Helicopters (BIH) confirmed this week it had reached an agreement with a landowner for a new heliport adjacent to the St Erth industrial estate off the A30. The move is subject to planning permission and the successful sale of the current heliport at Eastern Green in Penzance to supermarket giant Sainsbury's. But if successful, it will create a transport hub enabling passengers easy access to the helicopters from the mainline train station and the A30.' Full story here: http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/cornwall/Deal-struck-save-link-Scilly/article-3570868-detail/article.html Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: The Tall Controller on May 26, 2011, 00:42:41 As if they didn't have enough supermarkets in that area, they're going to get another!
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: smokey on May 26, 2011, 20:48:51 I'm sure that had the Helicoptor service moved to Newquay, with the extra fuel costs (oh and ^5 airport tax) I very much doubt that it would run for two years before being AXED.
Mind anyone with half a Brain would build a New Supermarket on the Heliport site put a flat rooof on it and have a Helipad on top ;D ;D Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on May 26, 2011, 21:46:49 BIH (the Isles of Scilly helicopter) have stopped taking bookings for travel after 31st October, pending moving their operations from Penzance. They are currently awaiting to see if planning permission will be granted for a supermarket (Sainsburys) to be built on the current heliport site. If it is, they will then decide from where they will operate. 4 sites were possible, Lands End (now discounted due to local opposition), "somewhere" just outside Penzance, and as mentioned above near St.Erth or Newquay.
BIH have already purchased/rented a hangar at Newquay for maintainence purposes Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on May 26, 2011, 22:38:41 BIH's website (http://www.islesofscillyhelicopter.com/) frontpage confirms they are taking bookings beyond 31st October.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: RailCornwall on June 29, 2011, 20:52:29 Heliport proposals for west Cornwall village
British International Helicopters confirm their preferred site for flights is in St Erth A helicopter company has said plans for its new Cornish heliport should go on show in a month. British International Helicopters has confirmed its preferred site for the flights to the Isles of Scilly is in a field in west Cornwall. People living in St Erth near Penzance said they did not know the service was planned for the site. more ^.. WWW.BBC.CO.UK/NEWS (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-13954667) 29-Jun-2011 @ 20:51 Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: RailCornwall on July 18, 2011, 16:26:45 Heliport Plans submitted so far to Cornwall Council ...
Will help with location guidance see here ^.. PLANNING.CORNWALL.GOV.UK/ONLINE-APPLICATIONS (http://planning.cornwall.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=LLPB22FG0CB00) 18-Jul-2011 @ 16:25 Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on November 11, 2011, 20:49:44 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-15698803):
Quote St Erth British International Helicopters plan dropped A Cornish helicopter travel firm has dropped a plan for a new base at St Erth near Penzance. British International Helicopters (BIH), which flies to the Isles of Scilly, faced opposition from villagers worried about noise and pollution. It is moving out of its current Penzance base in June 2012 after selling it to Sainsbury's. BIH said villagers' concerns "remain unresolved" and it would use Newquay Airport until another base was found. Opponents 'very pleased' BIH, which has operated the service since 1964, already has its aircraft maintenance and Navy support contracts based at the airport. Managing director Tony Jones said St Erth was "the most suitable available site in Cornwall for a new heliport". He added: "It is also very important to British International to be a good neighbour within the community". Airport managing director Al Titterington said: "We will work closely with BIH to ensure that the move to Newquay will be seamless and that their customers have as little inconvenience as possible". David Everett of West Cornwall Green Party said: "I am very pleased. "I have used the helicopters and I don't see what was wrong with the Penzance which was good for road and rail connections." The Isles of Scilly are also served by a ferry from Penzance and planes from Land's End, Newquay, Exeter, Southampton and Bristol. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: RailCornwall on November 12, 2011, 10:37:38 Bad news for Scilly, the ferry is in need of replacement soon, the docking facilities at both ends need ungrading and no finance is forthcoming for either. Doubling the journey time from Newquay for the Helicopter service will result in both less and more expensive journies. Shame really.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: The SprinterMeister on November 15, 2011, 17:17:52 Bad news for Scilly, the ferry is in need of replacement soon, the docking facilities at both ends need ungrading and no finance is forthcoming for either. Doubling the journey time from Newquay for the Helicopter service will result in both less and more expensive journies. Shame really. Bit half baked selling the Pzed Heliport site to Sainsburys before a new site had been agreed really...Still a nice new supermarket should create a few more nice empty / closed shops for the townspeople of Pzed. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: vacman on November 16, 2011, 20:54:10 Bad news for Scilly, the ferry is in need of replacement soon, the docking facilities at both ends need ungrading and no finance is forthcoming for either. Doubling the journey time from Newquay for the Helicopter service will result in both less and more expensive journies. Shame really. Still a nice new supermarket should create a few more nice empty / closed shops for the townspeople of Pzed.Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: smokey on November 19, 2011, 18:14:31 Compared to Other places the Size of Penzance, Penzance is riding things well, there aren't that many empty Shops in Penzance.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 26, 2011, 21:35:56 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-15902741):
Quote Helicopter firm BIH to operate from Newquay Airport Helicopter flights from Cornwall to the Isles of Scilly will leave from Newquay Airport next summer until a new base is found. British International Helicopters (BIH) has to sell its current site at Eastern Green in Penzance to raise cash to reinvest in the business. It was forced to find an alternative base after facing opposition over plans to move to St Erth. BIH said it was still committed to finding a new base in west Cornwall. In a statement, the company said it would continue operating from its current location until 30 June 2012, after which it will operate the service from Newquay Airport. BIH, which has operated the service since 1964, already has its aircraft maintenance and Navy support contracts based at the airport. Sainsbury's supermarket has already been granted planning permission by Cornwall Council to build on the existing heliport site at Eastern Green. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: FarWestJohn on August 02, 2012, 10:23:05 Radio Cornwall is reporting that the helicopter service to the Islands will finish in November after nearly 50 years. This will be a sad blow to the Islands and Penzance.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: bobm on August 02, 2012, 10:37:00 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-19090660)
Quote A helicopter service from Cornwall to the Isles of Scilly is to end, its operators have announced. British International Helicopters (BIH) is to end its service from Penzance, which has run since 1964, in November. The company blamed the decision on uncertainty created by legal action over its sale of land to supermarket giant Sainsbury's. St Ives Lib Dem MP Andrew George has called the announcement "appaling" and a "disaster". 'Kick in the teeth' BIH has to move from the current 15-acre site at the end of October because of the Sainsbury's deal. It planned to use the proceeds from the sale to buy new aircraft and bid for new business. But the company, which has not operated services this week, said the decision to close the route was "finally triggered by legal action taken by Tesco and two private individuals". It said potential delays caused by the challenges "created too many uncertainties for the passenger service to continue". BIH said the closure would affect employees and that a formal redundancy consultation process had begun with staff. The independent Cornwall councillor for Porthleven and Helston South, Andrew Wallis, said the decision was a "kick in the teeth" for the communities of the islands and west Cornwall. He said: "To me, this is two supermarkets squabbling over a piece of land and the communities of Penzance and the Isles of Scilly are the ones to miss out." Mr George said he had called for an emergency meeting over the link. Conservative-Independent led Cornwall Council said it was "extremely disappointed" by the decision to end the service, which can have up to 40 flights daily and is thought to be used by up to 130,000 people a year. It said: "We are keen to continue to talk to BIH about the future of the helicopter service and to see what support can be provided." The Scillonian ferry service remains. Andrew May, chairman of the Isles of Scilly Steamship Group, said his company would work with the islands' community in an attempt to compensate for BIH's pulling out. FGW have sold travel packages including the helicopter for a few years - see here. (http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Destinations/Top-destinations/Isles-of-Scilly) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Cornish Traveller on August 02, 2012, 13:43:51 ::) bloody Tesco have a lot to answer for ! :'( :'(
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on August 02, 2012, 15:01:12 I thought it was Tresco they flew to! :P ;) ;D
Seriously though, it does appear that Tesco's legal challenge (along with legal challenges from two private individuals) against the sale of BIH owned land to Sainsbury's is the root cause of BIH's decision to withdraw the helicopter service to the islands. British International Helicoptors' press release regarding the closure of the Isles of Scilly flights can be read at the following link: http://www.islesofscillyhelicopter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/BIH-FINAL-media-release-announcement.pdf Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: brompton rail on August 02, 2012, 15:41:35 Very sad news, and bad for Scillies' economy.
My one and only helicopter flight (well two really, as I came back too!), indeed my first time off the ground, some time about 40 years ago. It was ^25 return I seem to recall. Never have been on Scillonian - after seeing her tied up to Penzance harbour when the tide went out, more keel on a rowing boat! Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: james666 on August 03, 2012, 00:45:00 Seriously though, it does appear that Tesco's legal challenge (along with legal challenges from two private individuals) against the sale of BIH owned land to Sainsbury's is the root cause of BIH's decision to withdraw the helicopter service to the islands. BIH's statement that "the land needed to be sold in a reasonable time frame to release the capital required to continue the service" suggests that this isn't the _root_ cause, more like the failure of a final roll of the dice. Very sad news all the same. Helicopter is the most comfortable way to travel the Isles. The Scillonian voyage is hard on the stomach and a fixed wing take off from that short cliff-top runway at St Mary's is hard on the nerves. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: broadgage on August 03, 2012, 10:04:51 Agree, if presumably freehold land has to be sold to fund continuing operations, that does suggest that the business was not viable.
A successful business would generate sufficient revenue to fund all day to day operating costs, and also to put money into a sinking fund or reserve fund, for large but relatively rare expenses such as purchasing new aircraft. Helicopters use a great deal of increasingly expensive fuel, which is certain to become more expensive still. I do not see a long term future for helicopters as everday transport. As the cheap oil era draws to a close, we may have to accept that some small and/or remote islands will again become less accesable, as was the case within living memorary. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: paul7575 on August 03, 2012, 10:41:03 Helicopters use a great deal of increasingly expensive fuel, which is certain to become more expensive still. I do not see a long term future for helicopters as everday transport. In a similar vein, the continuation of the Southsea - Ryde Hovercraft appears to defy normal economic logic - you'd have thought their fuel costs were significantly high compared to a normal ferry... Paul Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on August 03, 2012, 21:54:32 The land needed to be sold to release capital as the current helicopters are edging towards the end of their operational lifes. The capital from the land sale was to fund the purchase of the new helicopters. Sadly no land sale, no money for new helicopters, and current ones are at the end of their operational life.
On a side note Isles of Scilly Steamship co which runs skybus flights and the scillonian ferry have been very quick announcing they have more than sufficient resources to create spare capacity to transport the 70000 passenger journeys being made annually by the helicopter. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Bob_Blakey on August 04, 2012, 07:53:38 However this service closure will remove the direct link between the mainland and Tresco as that island currently has no facilities, that I am aware of, for fixed wing aircraft or larger passenger vessels such as the Scillonian III.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: broadgage on August 04, 2012, 08:56:46 I wonder if airships might yet make a comeback ?
They still need fuel, but much less than a helicopter. Helicopters are inherently potentialy dangerous, in the event of mechanical failure they are apt to crash very quickly indeed with little hope for those on board. Air ships will drift with the wind, not crash if the engine power fails. The lifting gas is contained in more than one compartment, and any puncture or leakage should result in a slow and relatively controlled descent. The main drawbacks of airships are that they cant fly in very high winds, and that they are filled with helium* which is expensive and may be in future short supply. The helium is not consumed as fuel would be, but does gradually leak or escape and require periodic topping up. *hydrogen is an alternative in theory, but is generaly considered too flammable for manned craft. It has been proposed to use a mixture of hydrogen and helium, with hydrogen being present in the greatest proprtion that gives a safe mixture. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: james666 on August 04, 2012, 20:57:30 Helicopters are inherently potentialy dangerous, in the event of mechanical failure they are apt to crash very quickly indeed with little hope for those on board. Helicopters don't just fall like a stone if the engine fails. They are designed to glide and make a controlled landing under autorotation. The main rotor is driven round by air resistance and exerts a braking influence as the aircraft falls - similar principle to a sycamore seed. All pilots are trained to do this. So long as you have enough altitude and the sea is reasonably calm, the odds of survival are pretty good. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on August 04, 2012, 21:10:05 I'd rather be in a helicopter than an airship.
As for airships plying the route between Cornwall and the Isles.... that's just Scilly. ;) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 04, 2012, 23:54:48 In the interests of continuity and completeness, I've now split off and merged some posts from a previous topic with this one. CfN. ;)
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Bob_Blakey on August 05, 2012, 08:30:32 Helicopters are inherently potentialy dangerous, in the event of mechanical failure they are apt to crash very quickly indeed with little hope for those on board. Helicopters don't just fall like a stone if the engine fails. They are designed to glide and make a controlled landing under autorotation. The main rotor is driven round by air resistance and exerts a braking influence as the aircraft falls - similar principle to a sycamore seed. 'Autorotation' does indeed permit helicopters which have suffered engine failure to make a reasonably controlled descent and landing. Unfortunately a significant number of accidents have been caused by rotor gearbox failure at which point the machine adopts the aerodynamic properties of a brick. I don't think it is fair to describe helicopters as inherently dangerous as most larger commercial transport models are twin-engined and will fly quite happily, although very slowly, on one power unit. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: vacman on August 05, 2012, 13:55:39 Don't think airships would be much cop if they don't like wind! Land's end and that bit of the Atlantic are peobably one of the windiest places in the UK. This may be good in one respect that the business case for a new Scillonian may be a litle more robust now, if they had something faster they could run 2 possibly 3 trips per day, they can run 2 now if they have to as they don for the Gig racing.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: smokey on August 06, 2012, 21:06:12 Anyone for a Hovercraft service PNZ to Scilly? ::)
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on August 06, 2012, 21:18:53 What about a rail tunnel? Paddington to St. Mary's direct. ;)
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: smokey on September 07, 2012, 15:01:57 IIRC there were 3 objectors to the Sainsburys Plan.
However 2 objectors, (one was Tesco) dropped their objections (mainly due to the bad publicity) but ONE objection still remains, I just wonder if the IOS Steamship Company or someone connected have objected, bearing in mind some of the rumours and the OLD principal there are NO friends in business! However the helicopters have been running for YEARS, since 1964, and the fact that the land had to be sold to raise cash to purchase new helicopters makes me wonder was the helicopter service viable or somewhat badly managed? And on a side there were plans for a new ferry terminal in Penzance, but that was held up by protests about builing on the battery rocks in Penzance, the Con/Lib government dropped the ferry terminal plan as NOT VFM. Whilst I was basically for the new ferry terminal, but why on earth don't they build it on the Albert Pier. that has direct access to a large Car Park and even more importanly less than 5 Minutes walk to both Penzance Railway & Bus Stations. However my support for the New Ferry has vanish as I've heard that Cornwall councils plans were for a RO RO ferry. ROll On, Roll Off Ferry? The whole beauty is that the Isles of Scilly are pretty much CAR FREE! Anyone able to confirm the RO RO plan? Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on September 07, 2012, 19:10:28 I've heard a flying instructor who didn't like helicopters say that your life depends on one nut, or two if you count the pilot. Trains are dangerous if they are badly maintained or operated in a dangerous way; helicopters are similar in this respect, but without the option of coasting to a halt on level ground. There has been only one serious incident on the Scillies helicopter service, which sadly resulted in the loss of 20 lives, although 6 survived. The cause was determined by the AAIB to be pilot error, in effect trying to fly at 250 feet under low cloud, and hitting the water. I don't think of that as an indication of inherent danger.
The local rag (http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/westcornwall/9884807.Isles_of_Scilly_helicopter_link_is_saved/) seemed to think the service is now safe. British International Helicopter's (http://www.islesofscillyhelicopter.com/) website, sadly, does not. As to the IOW hovercraft, I've watched it coming into and going out of Ryde. The biggest vessel holds 130 people, and it seemed fairly full most journeys that I saw. I can't think of another way of getting people into Ryde from Southsea as quickly and easily, so I guess it is viable. I recall reading an article about Hoverspeed's former French hovercraft, which said maintaining the rubber skirt is a major expense. The IOW service doesn't have the same battering. It has four diesel engines, two to lift, two to propel, I have no idea how much fuel they use. But I assume the service is thriving, and will continue until someone thinks of a better way. Unless Hovertravel try to sell the apron to Sainsbury, that is... Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 02, 2012, 00:29:22 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20567380):
Quote Isles of Scilly flight disruption sparks concerns (http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64486000/jpg/_64486900_skybus.jpg) Weather permitting, Skybus planes fly to the Isles of Scilly six days a week Transport bosses have said they are doing all they can to minimise the impact the weather is having on air links to the Isles of Scilly. Land's End Airport has been temporarily closed until 6 December because of a waterlogged grass runway, so Skybus flights will be running from Newquay. Newsagents, flower growers and a hotel owner are among those affected. Since helicopter flights ended in October, the Isles of Scilly Travel company is the sole air provider. It operates flights six days a week in good weather. Its ferry, the Scillonian, only runs in the summer and a freight ferry operates every other day. Mumford's Newsagent, on St Mary's, said without guaranteed daily papers it was losing money and flower grower Ben Julian said with with no flights to Land's End until Thursday, he cannot send his customers' orders out by first class post. Meanwhile, the manager of the Bell Rock hotel said a number of bookings have been cancelled and that was of concern as business "just ticked over" outside the tourism season. "Every booking counts, so although I think Skybus has been doing a pretty good job since the helicopters stopped, it's quite worrying," he told BBC News. Andrew May, the chairman of the travel company, said the decision to close the airport was taken because because further heavy rain has been predicted. He said the company had been doing its best since "stepping up to the plate" when British International Helicopters stopped flying. "The weather's a challenge for lots of people and we're managing as best we can - we can manage the circumstances but we can't manage the weather," he told BBC News. The steamship company's current contract with the Royal Mail covers flights to Land's End, but not Newquay, but Mr May said discussions were taking place to see if that could be changed. Dudley Mumford, chair of the Council of the Isles of Scilly transport committee, described the recent weather as "unprecedented" and said there was no quick fix. "Although we can plan for so many contingencies, the bad weather coupled with the demise of the helicopter has put a strain on the services," he said. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on December 02, 2012, 21:27:42 Skybus have a captive market now. The picture shows G-CBML, a 32 year old Twin Otter, at Lands End Airport. Don't be concerned with the age of the plane, they are tremendously robust machines, and are subject to a rigorous maintenance regime. They are checked for the basics by the pilot before every flight, have a 50-hour inspection by an authorised engineer, and a more invasive 100-hour inspection by the same. They have an annual inspection which typically takes a few days, and the engines have a finite life. The engine service is a major one at 1800 hours, and a very major service at 3600 hours. I have seen figures that show that if you lavished the same care on your car, it would last 2000 years. Helicopters need much more TLC.The leading edge of the rotor blades in particular need considerable attention, and are vital to a safe flight.
I have a son-in-law in the RAF who recently switched from VC10 tankers to helicopters. In VC10 work, he used to patch them up, and figure out what faults they could fly with. The Pumas have to be 100% fit before every flight. This is not to say that choppers are intrinsically unsafe, just that no-one will take any chances with them. Grass runways are fun to land on, when dry. You fly past them at about 300 feet, to the right, and inspect the surface, if you don't have someone on the ground telling you what the conditions are like. Then you fly around to final approach, and approach as slowly as you dare, with full flap. Then you "hold off" a few feet above the threshold, keeping the aircraft flying as long as you can. When the wheels touch, you slow down very quickly, without brakes. A friend in my aero club landed at Compton Abbas after rain. He is a big man, and had a passenger. He got down to about 50 knots in a Piper Cherokee, with the stall warning indicator buzzing. When the wheels touched, it stopped. He bashed his nose on the dashboard, and needed full power to taxy out of the mud. That is the limitation of using fixed wing craft at Lands End, especially in a summer like we have just had. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on December 02, 2012, 22:04:33 He is a big man, and had a passenger. He got down to about 50 knots in a Piper Cherokee, with the stall warning indicator buzzing. When the wheels touched, it stopped. He bashed his nose on the dashboard, and needed full power to taxy out of the mud. I know I shouldn't have, but that part of your post made me laugh. Hope his nose wasn't seriously damaged. I believe pilots live by the mantra that, "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing." ;D Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on December 03, 2012, 16:44:53 Don't worry - it made me laugh too, and he saw the funny side later. You're right about a good landing, too. The other favoured maxim is "Better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here."
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Thatcham Crossing on December 03, 2012, 17:18:26 Going off-topic a bit, but the 3 most useless things in aviation are:
1. Sky above you 2. Runway behind you 3. Fuel in the bowser TC (belated driver light aeroplanes) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on December 03, 2012, 17:50:50 Correct! You only have too much fuel if you are on fire.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: trainer on December 03, 2012, 18:02:25 I believe pilots live by the mantra that, "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing." When I read this, I realise why, when offered a choice, I choose the train over the plane! Not sure about the viability of a tunnel to the Isles of Silly though. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 08, 2012, 23:23:57 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20651080):
Quote Skybus Isles of Scilly flights to return to Land's End Flights between Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly are to return to Land's End from Monday, an airline operator says. The Isles of Scilly Steam Ship Company's Skybus service has been flying from Newquay Airport since last week because of a waterlogged grass runway at Land's End Airport. Managers said flights were moved because of "exceptional weather conditions", including heavy rain. It added that most passengers had been able to catch the redirected flights. Operations manager Stuart Brint said: "I think, on the whole, everyone has been very patient." Flights were suspended on 30 November because of the waterlogged runway. Further rain midweek halted plans to bring flights back to Land's End earlier. Mr Brint said the decision was made to return services to Land's End after an inspection of the airfield on Friday. The islands, which have a population of 2,200, have flights six days a week in good weather. A passenger ferry, the Scillonian, only runs in the summer. British International Helicopters stopped its year-round service on 31 October after running into financial problems. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on December 08, 2012, 23:39:41 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20651080): Any bashed noses before the switch?Quote Skybus Isles of Scilly flights to return to Land's End The Isles of Scilly Steam Ship Company's Skybus service has been flying from Newquay Airport since last week because of a waterlogged grass runway at Land's End Airport. The expense of switching flights to Newquay would be considerable. Not only is it further, leading to added fuel costs, but Newquay airport's "development fee" of ^5 per passenger, in addition to landing fees, will have made inroads into any remaining profit. On top of that. at least some of their passengers will have had a substantial land journey, although for others, it will have been a shorter drive. Fair play to Skybus for not just shutting up shop during the bad weather. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on December 09, 2012, 10:47:16 Skybus instructed customers to attend Lands End for check in, and then bussed passengers through to Newquay. Obviously passengers need their cars at Lands End for returning, I also wonder if checking in at Lands End avoids the ^5 airport tax thing, as it is effectively paid at Newquay to check in.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on December 09, 2012, 15:12:13 Bit of a bugger if you live in Newquay and are going to the Scillies.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on December 09, 2012, 19:09:25 Bit of a bugger if you live in Newquay and are going to the Scillies. Wouldnt you therefore book one of the scheduled Newquay - Scillies flights? Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on December 11, 2012, 17:50:52 I was thinking of the fearful flyer who had already booked the shortest possible crossing, or the hard-up, who thought he would save ^15 a head by driving to Lands End, but your point is well made!
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on December 15, 2012, 22:27:39 Again, due to the weather, any potential for a nose/dashboard interface at Land's End Airport has been averted:
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20739869): Quote Waterlogged runway closes Land's End Airport Land's End Airport in Cornwall has been closed due to a waterlogged runway. Skybus, which provides flights from the airport to the Isles of Scilly as well as scenic flights, said it had closed following torrential rain. The company said all passengers had been informed and were being transported to Newquay Airport. The condition of the runway is due to be reviewed on Monday. There are no flights scheduled for Sunday. The grass runway was reopened last weekend after being closed for more than a week following heavy rain earlier in the month. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 15, 2012, 22:46:54 ... a nose/dashboard interface ... ... or a dashboard-in-yer-face ... ? ;D Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on January 08, 2013, 14:06:12 Again, the airport at Land's End has closed due to weather:
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20943869): Quote Waterlogged runway halts Isles of Scilly flights from Land's End Flights to the Isles of Scilly are not flying from Land's End because of runway problems, an airline says. Skybus passengers are being transported to Newquay Airport for services because of a waterlogged runway at Land's End, managers said. However, Newquay Airport also saw disruption to flights on Tuesday morning because of low cloud over the islands. The Land's End runway will be surveyed again on Wednesday, the company said. Passengers have been advised to check in as normal. Recent spells of prolonged heavy rain over the past several weeks have impacted on operations at Land's End. The islands, which have a population of 2,200, have flights six days a week in good weather. A passenger ferry, the Scillonian, only runs in the summer. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Thatcham Crossing on January 08, 2013, 22:50:07 This trouble at St Just must be costing Skybus a fortune.
They own the airfield, so presumably don't charge themselves landing/parking/handling fees. At NQY, I imagine they will have to pay all of these, plus the additional cost of the longer flights between there and St. Mary's. Not sustainable in the long term, I would suggest. About 800 metres of something harder could be needed at St. Just? Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on January 09, 2013, 19:28:58 This trouble at St Just must be costing Skybus a fortune. They own the airfield, so presumably don't charge themselves landing/parking/handling fees. At NQY, I imagine they will have to pay all of these, plus the additional cost of the longer flights between there and St. Mary's. Not sustainable in the long term, I would suggest. About 800 metres of something harder could be needed at St. Just? And not forgetting they are bussing passengers from St Just to Newquay, and as asked previously what about the ^5 passenger levy? Not sure if this applies, as it is something paid on check in at Newquay, and St Just passengers need to book in at St Just Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on January 09, 2013, 20:44:35 This trouble at St Just must be costing Skybus a fortune. They own the airfield, so presumably don't charge themselves landing/parking/handling fees. At NQY, I imagine they will have to pay all of these, plus the additional cost of the longer flights between there and St. Mary's. Not sustainable in the long term, I would suggest. About 800 metres of something harder could be needed at St. Just? They kind of own the airfield. The operator is Westward Airways Ltd, separate from Skybus, but both are owned by the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company. Westward used to run the Lands End Flying School, but stopped that part of their operations recently. They sold their two Cessna 152s, but retained the other two aircraft they own, Cessna 172s. These will be transferred to Skybus to use for pleasure flights under their operators' licence. Whilst building a solid runway isn't quite as simple as it sounds, 800m is probably enough. Both the Dash 6 and the Islander, the types operated by Skybus, can get off the floor to 50 feet and land from the same height in under 400m. 800m would allow for water on the runway, hot weather, crosswinds, and all the other things that potentially can extend the take-off run of an aircraft. Grass has its advantages though, when it isn't waterlogged. Whilst you wouldn't want to try it in an A380, it is softer on the aircraft, and helps with braking. The Skybus planes probably only use their brakes for parking, having reversible pitch propellors to slow down, or even go backwards. Grass runways need frequent maintenance, but of the gardening type. The grass should be kept short, and any holes that appear should be dealt with at once. If Skybus were to lay asphalt or concrete, they would probably need planning permission. Because it is to be used for public transport flights, it would also need the CAA's blessing. Civil Aviation Publication CAP 791 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP791.pdf)is the document that shows how complex a process this would be. It would certainly be seen as a major change to the infrastructure, and they would have to give plenty of notice of intention to proceed. For changes to runway lighting, the CAA reckons on a lead-in time of six months, so a plan for a new runway would need no shorter period of notice. The CAA, who charge for their services, would be involved at every step of the process, to ensure compliance with agreed plans, and to save the developer the expense of having to rip up and start again anything that does not meet the exacting standards demanded of a licensed aerodrome. Although the runways at EGHC (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-ACC20902004DE8ACDD3EEE04BFE5F91A/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/NON_AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGHC_2-1_en_2009-11-19.pdf)are to some extent separate, I cannot see how the airport could continue to operate with the work in progress. When the concrete / ashpalt is dry, there would need to be a period of inspection and testing, plus amendment of procedures, the Aeronatical Infromation Publications,and any other ancillary works. I reckon it could be done within 18 months, by which time it may have stopped raining. I think a few diversions to Newquay will be preferable. If a hard runway is wanted, building a new airport somewhere close by may be the better option. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 16, 2013, 21:35:59 An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-21041888):
Quote Plastic mats to strengthen Land's End runway Plastic matting is to be installed over the grass surface of the Land's End runway to allow flights to resume between the Isles of Scilly. Flights have been redirected to Newquay Airport since mid December due to heavy rain over the last month. The Isles of Scilly Steam Ship Company's Skybus service said the matting would help to "reinforce the surface". The plastic matting will be installed over the next few weeks. The company said it was working with the Council of the Isles of Scilly on a longer term solution by securing the necessary money to pay for an upgrade to the runway. After the withdrawal of the helicopter service from Penzance, Skybus has become the last link from Cornwall to the Isles of Scilly. The islands, which have a population of 2,200, have flights six days a week in good weather. A passenger ferry, the Scillonian, only runs in the summer. Mike Hicks, the chairman of the Council of the Isles of Scilly, said he was "already worried" about next winter. He plans to meet with the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company to discuss the possibility of the major Scillonian re-fit being speeded up so the ferry can sail next Christmas. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 25, 2013, 23:56:38 A further update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-21921767):
Quote Isles of Scilly ferry service restarts after ^2m refit The Isles of Scilly's only passenger ferry service has restarted following a ^2m refit. Improvements to the Scillonian 3 include new flooring, lighting and catering facilities. Islanders have been calling for the service, which operates for just seven months a year, to run all year round. There have been concerns about transport links after the helicopter service ended in October and Skybus flights were disrupted by bad weather. In October money to subsidise an Isles of Scilly helicopter link was ruled out by Transport Minister Norman Baker. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 07, 2013, 21:18:31 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22058883):
Quote Transatlantic journey for small Isles of Scilly plane (http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66793000/jpg/_66793059_66793054.jpg) Skybus already has three De Havilland Twin Otters The company that operates flights from Land's End to the Isles of Scilly has had to adapt a new plane it is adding to its fleet. Skybus acquired the De Havilland plane in Canada, but with a normal range of 650 miles (1,046km), a giant fuel tank has had to be added. The 4,500-mile (7,242km) journey will take 26 flying hours, with fuelling stops in Greenland and Iceland. The DH-6 Twin Otter was chosen for its short take off and landing capability. Skybus already has three of the 19-seater Twin Otters in its fleet, plus three eight-seater Britten Norman Islanders. The giant fuel tank - which is taking up half the plane's cabin space - will almost double the plane's range, so it can fly from Greenland and Iceland, then across the Atlantic. It will land at Prestwick Airport in Scotland, before making its final leg to Land's End Airport. The plane left Calgary on Saturday night and should arrive in the UK on Friday. Skybus engineering manager Mick Yould, who has spent three weeks in Canada preparing the plane, said it was "a really tough piece of kit". "We've planned the trip meticulously and made sure we've plenty of fuel to divert to alternative airports if the weather deteriorates," Mr Yould said. The Isles of Scilly Steamship Group, which owns and operates Skybus, said having a fourth Twin Otter would give it more flexibility on its routes from Exeter, Newquay and Land's End. "It's a great aircraft for us because of its short take off and landing capability, but they are not easy to get hold of because they are so popular, which is why we had to go to Canada," Skybus chief executive Jeff Marston said. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on April 09, 2013, 18:28:19 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22058883): Quote Transatlantic journey for small Isles of Scilly plane (http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66793000/jpg/_66793059_66793054.jpg) Skybus already has three De Havilland Twin Otters The company that operates flights from Land's End to the Isles of Scilly has had to adapt a new plane it is adding to its fleet. Skybus acquired the De Havilland plane in Canada, but with a normal range of 650 miles (1,046km), a giant fuel tank has had to be added. The 4,500-mile (7,242km) journey will take 26 flying hours, with fuelling stops in Greenland and Iceland. The DH-6 Twin Otter was chosen for its short take off and landing capability. Skybus already has three of the 19-seater Twin Otters in its fleet, plus three eight-seater Britten Norman Islanders. The giant fuel tank - which is taking up half the plane's cabin space - will almost double the plane's range, so it can fly from Greenland and Iceland, then across the Atlantic. It will land at Prestwick Airport in Scotland, before making its final leg to Land's End Airport. The plane left Calgary on Saturday night and should arrive in the UK on Friday. Skybus engineering manager Mick Yould, who has spent three weeks in Canada preparing the plane, said it was "a really tough piece of kit". "We've planned the trip meticulously and made sure we've plenty of fuel to divert to alternative airports if the weather deteriorates," Mr Yould said. The Isles of Scilly Steamship Group, which owns and operates Skybus, said having a fourth Twin Otter would give it more flexibility on its routes from Exeter, Newquay and Land's End. "It's a great aircraft for us because of its short take off and landing capability, but they are not easy to get hold of because they are so popular, which is why we had to go to Canada," Skybus chief executive Jeff Marston said. It may sound odd, but to quote Tom Jones, it's not unusual. Even light aircraft, like my formerly beloved Piper Cherokee, are routinely flown to their new destination. An auxilliary tank is usually fitted instead of the rear seat rather than in the luggage hold, to help with balance. Last stop on the American continent is often St Johns, Newfoundland, before the long hop to Greenland, then Reykavik, the often Prestwick. There are many specialist ferry companies that will do the job, which is not cheap. Some pilots don't fancy the rigours of the North Atlantic in an unpressurised aircraft. The traditional way to get out of bumpy air is to climb, but you lose around 1 degree centigrade for every 500 feet, and icing quickly becomes an issue. The alternative is to head south to Florida, then over the Caribbean to Venezuela, then Brazil. The big hop then is to the Azores or even mainland Africa, and requires nerves of steel, as well as exceptional navigation skills. The biggest tank you can fit into the aircraft is called for - in aviation, you only have too much fuel if you are on fire. Twin Otters are wonderful little aircraft. People I have spoken to who fly them for a job say they are very easy to fly, and extremely versatile. They take off and land in very little space, and are quite happy landing even on a beach. Time I went to the Scillies! Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Thatcham Crossing on April 09, 2013, 22:12:10 As chance would have it Four Track, I find myself tonight in Reykjavik and only a stones-throw from the domestic airport. If the latest Skybus acquisition escapes the frozen clutches of Churchill, Manitoba (where it has been grounded due weather for the last 2 days), I may well see it here over the next few days on its way east.
We arrived up the road at Keflavik this morning and when we landed the weather was doing it's best to live up to the Icelandic stereotype of "4 seasons in one day", with driving snow and cloud "on the deck" on minute, and bright blue skies the next! I understand this "Twotter" is being ferried by a guy with experience of flying them for The British Antarctic Survey, a person one would expect therefore to have lots of the kind of experience needed to undertake this kind of mission. I've experienced these aircraft as a passenger (on scenic flights over the Grand Canyon) and would describe the experience as being a bit like flying in an oversized Cessna 172, albeit with an extra engine and a bit more speed! Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on April 09, 2013, 23:20:24 I understand this "Twotter" is being ferried by a guy with experience of flying them for The British Antarctic Survey, a person one would expect therefore to have lots of the kind of experience needed to undertake this kind of mission. To quote Benny the Ball: "OK TC!". You may even try to cadge a crafty lift home. I have yet to visit Reykjavik, which explains why I can't spell it. BAS experience is perfect for a flight like this. It is over 1000 NM from St Johns Newfoundland to Nuuk on Greenland, and nearly as far again to Reykjaik. In a plane with a cruise speed of 150 knots, that gives a flight time in perfect weather of over 6 hours. Although the Twin Otter is equipped with quite sophisticated navigational equipment, it will still be a long shift. My own longest continuous spell behind the yoke is under 2 hours, and although I thoroughly enjoyed it, I was glad to climb out of the cockpit at the end. The crux will be the planning, and no good pilot would chance his arm in any weather with uncertainty built in. A number of ferry flights of all types of aircraft have come to sticky ends - Hawaii has seen bigger aircraft ditch within sight of shore after an unexpected headwind had eaten into the planned fuel stocks. So better to hang around for a couple of days to catch the right conditions than risk a plane with a $7 million price tag and a pilot with a beating heart. As aviators say on bad days: "Better to be down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here". GPS has transformed trans-Atlantic aviation, but is less than 20 years old. Prior to that, it wasn't possible to be sure of your position with accuracy, nor to track an aircraft all the way across the Atlantic. Air Traffic controllers would dispatch a Boeing 747 into the unknown to the north-west of Scotland, and would only know it had got across the ocean safely when it contacted St Johns radar. Nothing is infallible, so your ferry pilot will be prepared for navigation using the dead-reckoning methods employed by Charles Lindbergh and others. Respect. As an aside, my daughter spent 6 months working in the Falklands, and had a ride in the right-hand front seat of an Islander between Mount Pleasant and West Falkland. The pilot chose his own route, giving her and her colleagues a sightseeing tour rather than an A to B flight. It's dirty work, but someone has to do it. (Grrrr!) A fellow club member and his wife undertook a ferry flight to bring a PA28 (or Piper Cherokee) from Larnaka to Bristol. The nearest landfall is a short hop to Turkey, but at the time they did it, aircraft originating in the Greek-speaking half of Cyprus were not allowed to land in either Northern Cyprus or Turkey, so their first leg was a buttock-clencher to Rhodes. The worst was the shortest - they checked out of their hotel in Albania, took off , then hit bad weather an hour over the Adriatic, and took the admirable decision to turn back, to the bemusement of the landlady who had seen them off earlier. Before you ask, they are both professional pilots by day - he flies Airbuses, she all sorts of stuff, mainly in the executive jet category. A paradox maybe, but you can't hurry the fast way of getting round. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Thatcham Crossing on April 10, 2013, 21:49:56 This evening it looks like they are currently airborne over Hudson Bay, en-route to the next stop, which I think is due to be Iqaluit. So 2 long over-water legs next (including a crossing of Greenland) assuming they night-stop at Iqaluit tonight.
I've also visited the Falklands, and on one of my trips back in 2000, I met some of the BAS guys at Stanley Airport, with their Dash 7 - a four-engined turboprop, for the unfamiliar, and a type that Brymon Airways used to once operate between Plymouth/Newquay and Heathrow back in the day. They were on the final leg of ferrying it from maintenance in Canada to the British Base at Rothera in Antarctica for the southern "summer", and had spent about 8 hours airborne that day trying to get there - they'd left Stanley that morning and after several hours flying south into extreme headwinds had had to turn back as they might have run out of fuel before they reached their destination, or at the very least been left with few options for diversion had it become unavailable late into the flight - it seemed like an epic story to me, but to them was just part and parcel of operations in remote and unforgiving parts of the world! By the way, you can track where the Skybus Twotter is here https://share.delorme.com/DouglasCochrane (https://share.delorme.com/DouglasCochrane) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Thatcham Crossing on April 12, 2013, 16:03:47 This afternoon it looks as if G-ISSG is enroute between Greenland and Iceland at 12,000ft and with a groundspeed of around 200mph, which is quick for a Twotter and indicates that they must be picking up a decent tailwind.
The weather here in Reykjavik at 3pm GMT/UTC (1hr behind the UK) is clear and cold with a light northerly wind, and if the tracker is correct I would expect them to be on the island from their current position in maybe around 4 hours. Update at 17.45 GMT - the Twotter has landed here in Reykjavik! Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on April 12, 2013, 18:11:26 This afternoon it looks as if G-ISSG is enroute between Greenland and Iceland at 12,000ft and with a groundspeed of around 200mph, which is quick for a Twotter and indicates that they must be picking up a decent tailwind. The weather here in Reykjavik at 3pm GMT/UTC (1hr behind the UK) is clear and cold with a light northerly wind, and if the tracker is correct I would expect them to be on the island from their current position in maybe around 4 hours. Update at 17.45 GMT - the Twotter has landed here in Reykjavik! According to the METAR, that light northerly wind is 20 knots! My daughter had fun landing in Falklands, in a Boeing 747 from Brize Norton via Ascension. The third approach, the pilot said he had a 50 knot crosswind, and if he didn't make it, they would divert to Montevideo. Her hopes of a night in Uruguay were dashed, as he landed it. Phenomenal! Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Thatcham Crossing on April 13, 2013, 22:48:11 I've been out all day, but as I stepped out of our apartment this morning at 1030 local time, G-ISSG was just getting airborne for the UK. I watched her climb out of the Reykjavik circuit and set course towards the south-east - the tracker shows she has made it to Prestwick (just south of Glasgow) and is nightstopping there.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: bobm on April 25, 2013, 19:27:55 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22294904)
Quote Talks are under way to 'resurrect helicopter link' says MP A Cornwall MP is "in discussions" with operators to resurrect the helicopter link between Cornwall and The Isles of Scilly, he said. St Ives Liberal Democrat MP Andrew George said he had been in talks with a helicopter firm which is "very interested" in providing a service. British International axed its service between Penzance and Scilly in October. Mr George said he wanted to "inject hope" into the community but said it was important to "remain cautious". He said Yeovil based manufacturer, Augusta Westland was "very interested in making one of their 18 to 19 seater helicopters available to put a service on". Mr George said potential operators Bond and CHC will now be approached to "look at possibilities". He said: "Some of the significant elements of the jigsaw puzzle that need to be put together to resurrect the service are being worked on as we speak. 'Heliport site identified' "Let's see if the Isles of Scilly and the Penzance communities get behind the idea and give it their full support and that will obviously assist in persuading other people to come on board." Mr George said "a site in the Penzance area has been identified" for the heliport but that he could not comment further on the location. British International stopped its year-round service linking the islands, some 28 miles (45km) south-west of Cornwall, after running into financial problems, blaming falling passenger numbers and rising costs. Money to subsidise a helicopter link was ruled out by Transport Minister Norman Baker in October. Mr George said withdrawal of the "lifeline service" had hit islanders, medical services and the economy. "The winter that the islanders have experienced has perhaps opened a lot of peoples eyes as to why we need another transport provider to the Isles of Scilly," he said. A ferry, the Scillonian, runs for only seven months a year; and the only other link, the Skybus plane service, which flies from Land's End Airport and Newquay in Cornwall, is weather-dependent. Neither service is subsidised. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on April 25, 2013, 20:50:56 "Make available one of their 18 to 19 seat helicopters available..."? Rental or sale, or just plain lending? The only Agusta Westland civvy helicopter of the size is the AW189 (http://www.agustawestland.com/product/aw189). None are yet in service, although Bristow Helicopters have ordered 11 for the private UK search and rescue service. It could be they will offer it to demonstrate it to a wider audience.
The tech data shows it to be a tasty bit of kit. It is Cat A capable - if one of the two engines fails on take-off, it can either safely get back down to the floor, or fly out, missing all obstacles by at least 35 feet. PC1 and PC2e are safety standards for offshore operations such as gas platforms. Unlike the current fixed wing aircraft, they are equipped for day or night in just about all weathers, whereas flights from both Lands End and Newquay were recently grounded by fog. Be nice if it happens. It will need a new heliport, of course, which will open a whole new can of worms. But it is not insurmountable. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on April 25, 2013, 20:59:09 Andrew George has always been an MP who gets what he wants for his constituency, so I would expect this to be likely to happen now. He's been the MP since 1997, and always been a popular candidate.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on April 25, 2013, 21:12:55 Sounds a good man to have inside, then. This needs action as well as words. The economics of passenger transport by air are crazy, with ultra-expensive assets being used on minimal profit margins, but still someone gets rich.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Thatcham Crossing on April 25, 2013, 22:45:31 FTN said:
Quote The economics of passenger transport by air are crazy That is probably about 4 times more true when it comes to commercial helicopter operations. The old BIH service probably only survived as long as it did because the S61N's operated were around 40 years old and probably fully paid for many years ago. However, I expect they made up for that by being eye-wateringly expensive to maintain. The most suitable type for any future Isles of Scilly heliops is probably the Sikorsky S92 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-92 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-92) CHC operate these in the North Sea. As an aside, FTN, my last trip in a BIH S61N was on one of my trips to the Falklands, where 2 were (and I think still are) operated under contract to the MoD. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on April 25, 2013, 23:22:14 Absolutely true, TC. The engines are replaced in all aircraft at planned intervals. The airframe of a modern aircraft doesn't look much different to an older one. It is said that if you lavished the care shown to commercial aircraft on your car, it would last for a thousand years. The big changes have come in materials used. BIH's S61N's date back, in two cases out of the 5 they owned, to 1964, when oil was cheap, and efficiency was not as huge a consideration as it is now. Now, the emphasis for any new aircraft is safety, with efficiency, hence the growing use of composite materials and fly-by-wire systems that weigh so much less than the former metal rods and hydraulics used for moving control surfaces.
The engines for the former S61N weigh around 400lb with reduction gearbox, develop a useful power output of 1250hp max at a fuel consumption of 0.64 lb/hp/hr. The engines in the AW189 weigh about the same, deliver a third more power, whilst using a third less fuel. So despite the price on the forecourt, the running costs are much lower. How you can make money by using an aircraft costing $350 million (for a Boeing 747-800) to burn expensive oil to transport passengers long distances is beyond my powers of deduction. BIH were sunk, they say, because of the judicial review regarding the sale of the heliport, which delayed matters. It doesn't sound as though they would have held on much longer if cash-flow depended on selling the base, because passenger numbers had fallen in the recession. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: broadgage on April 26, 2013, 14:53:34 I read somwhere, but can not substantiate, that passenger air travel overall has NEVER made a profit since it was invented !
Most large airports lose money on the strictly aviation side of the operation, the profits coming from retailing, car parking, and hotels. Many smaller airports are routinely loss making, being subsidised by local or national government. Many airlines are effectively state owned or state controlled or state subsidised, no banana republic is complete without a national airline. Many other airlines are loss making and receive subsidies. Many others have gone bust. Others regularly lose money, and change hands cheaply, with the new owners hoping (usually in vain) that they will do better than the last lot. The manufacture of aircraft tends to be subsisised "to protect high tech jobs" and also as a matter of national prestige. Some airlines do sometimes make a profit, but overall the industry is said to be loss making. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on April 26, 2013, 15:12:16 Multi-billionaire Warren Buffet:
"If a capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk back in the early 1900s, he should have shot Orville Wright. He would have saved his progeny money. But seriously, the airline business has been extraordinary. It has eaten up capital over the past century like almost no other business because people seem to keep coming back to it and putting fresh money in. I have an 800 number now that I call if I get the urge to buy an airline stock. I call at 2 in the morning and I say: 'My name is Warren, and I'm an aeroholic.' And then they talk me down." Unknown: "How do you make a million dollars in aviation? Start with two million and know when to quit!" Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Kernow Otter on April 26, 2013, 17:57:00 The ex BIH S61 is still out and about round these parts. Going on flight paths, she is probably running out of Newquay Airport....
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on April 28, 2013, 21:31:13 I have read elsewhere that two of them are stored at Newquay, pending decisions.
Bizarre things happen in aviation. When I first started learning to fly at Filton, in 2005, there was a Boeing 747 with 3 engines, and weights hanging from the mounting for the fourth, parked on the jet apron. I know it had been there a while, as I had seen it en passant. I think the livery said Southern Winds. After a few lessons, I asked my instructor how long it takes to change an engine on a jumbo - the true answer, I now know, is around 5 hours. "Oh no", he said. "The engine's been taken off to stop someone shinning over the fence in the dead of night, starting up, and buggering off." The airline had gone bust, and debt attaches to the aircraft. So anyone buying it would have to settle up before taking it away. He reckoned it would end up being dismantled on site. But one day, almost a year later, I arrived for my weekly flight, and it was gone. Someone had paid a bill, the maintenance guy stuck the engine back on, the pilot filed a flight plan for Shannon, and away it went. Amazing these things can happen, but they can and do. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: bobm on April 28, 2013, 21:33:16 Wouldn't a wheel clamp have been easier?
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on April 28, 2013, 21:37:49 Presumably it wouldn't have been fueled either.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on April 28, 2013, 22:25:43 You would think just removing the batteries would stop anyone starting up the APU, let alone the main engines, but that is what I was told, and by more than one person working there. A wheel clamp probably wouldn't hold back 200,000 lbs of thrust, either.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: John R on April 28, 2013, 23:02:19 I have read elsewhere that two of them are stored at Newquay, pending decisions. Bizarre things happen in aviation. When I first started learning to fly at Filton, in 2005, there was a Boeing 747 with 3 engines, and weights hanging from the mounting for the fourth, parked on the jet apron. I know it had been there a while, as I had seen it en passant. I think the livery said Southern Winds. After a few lessons, I asked my instructor how long it takes to change an engine on a jumbo - the true answer, I now know, is around 5 hours. "Oh no", he said. "The engine's been taken off to stop someone shinning over the fence in the dead of night, starting up, and buggering off." The airline had gone bust, and debt attaches to the aircraft. So anyone buying it would have to settle up before taking it away. He reckoned it would end up being dismantled on site. But one day, almost a year later, I arrived for my weekly flight, and it was gone. Someone had paid a bill, the maintenance guy stuck the engine back on, the pilot filed a flight plan for Shannon, and away it went. Amazing these things can happen, but they can and do. From Wikipedia: By 2004, Southern Winds was a leading commercial carrier in the troubled Argentine aviation industry. That September, however, airport police in Madrid discovered 60 kilograms (130 lb) of cocaine packed in four unaccompanied suitcases aboard an arriving Southern Winds flight. The resulting scandal cost the airline its government subsidy, and ultimately resulted in the carrier's collapse. The last Southern Winds flight operated on December 5, 2005, although proposals for the airline's revival continued to surface in 2006. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on April 29, 2013, 00:17:17 So there you have it children - proof that drugs do ruin airlines.
I have traced the aircraft's history from its construction in 1982. It flew first for Cathay Pacific, then between 1998 and 2001 for Virgin Atlantic. It was then seconded to Air Atlanta Icelandic, prior to a return to Virgin and a trip to Mojave for storage, in 2002. It was recommissioned and bought by European Aircharters in late 2003. They leased it to Garuda for 2 months in 2004, for Hajj flights to Mecca. After that, Southern Winds had their fun with it. It flew into Filton on 2 February 2005, for de-virginisation (yes, you can do that with a plane too) and transformation into Southern Winds colours by the then thriving Air Livery paint shop at Filton - picture link here. (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Southern-Winds/Boeing-747-267B/0784969/&sid=a3a44f2f99bf48266daa20b0a6099b37). This was after the pharmaceutical catastrophe alluded to by John R. The process normally takes less than 2 weeks for a 747. The airline collapsed whilst it was there, and it stood gathering dust and parking fees until 29 April 2006. It has the dubious distinction of wearing the livery of an airline for over 14 months, but never having made a flight for that company. Outdoor parking fees for a 747 at Filton, BTW, were not much more than those levied at Heathrow to park a car. After its long period at Filton, it went to work for Transeuro under a Bermudan registration VP-BPX, based in Russia. The trail grows cold - some sources say it is now stored in Melbourne, others suggest that it was broken up at Kemble. What I think I may have realised from my research is that few aircraft are owned by airlines - a situation not unlike Train Operating Companies leasing from the Big Three, only this is multinational. Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, Embraer et al may announce orders from airlines, but the aircraft are sold to shadowy leasing companies, the names of none of whom are well known. Who knows? If there is a runway extension project in the Scillies similar to that at Funchal, Madeira, we may yet see this particular 747 on finals to land in the Scillies. Probably preceded by a number of pigs, in formation. Sorry - what were we talking about? Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on May 06, 2013, 17:34:29 Drove past Penzance heliport today, all demolished, and they have raised up the ground by around 2 foot.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on August 17, 2013, 20:36:41 Lands end is to have 2 of its 4 run ways tarmacked by the end of the year.
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Resurfacing-work-place-Land-s-End-Airport/story-19672871-detail/story.html#axzz2c7jg1mzj Quote Much-needed resurfacing work will take place on two of the four grass runways at Land^s End Airport following reports of a landmark rise in pre-tax profits. The runways at the airport, which provide an air link to the Isles of Scilly, were often closed in winter after they became waterlogged during bouts of poor weather. Operator, The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company, reported strong financial results after a year of record investment, which included a ^2million upgrade of its Scillonian passenger ship and a ^1million upgrade of its Land^s End terminal. Andrew May, chairman of the company, said he expected work, which would see the runways covered with tar macadam, to take place at the end of the calendar year. He said: "Our strong cash position means we will continue to invest in strengthening the route, including plans to resurface two of the four grass runways at Land's End Airport this calendar year. Local Radio has reported that their profits for the last year were at a record high, despite the 3 million they have invested in upgrades last year. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on August 18, 2013, 10:17:57 Lands end is to have 2 of its 4 run ways tarmacked by the end of the year. I am confused after reading the BBC online report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-23252556), which is at variance with the This is Cornwall report. Quote New hard runway for Land's End airport Land's End flights were affected by a waterlogged runway during the winter Major improvements have been announced for two airports in Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly after bad weather caused chaos last winter. A hard runway will be built at Land's End airport and St Mary's airport on the Isles of Scilly will also be updated. Nearly ^7m of European funding has been earmarked for the work. Land's End airport was closed to flights for three months last winter after it was waterlogged. About 800 metres of hard surface, replacing the current grass landing strip, will be laid over three weekends in September. Diana Mompoloki, the development manager for the Council of the Isles of Scilly, was "very confident that everything would be ready for the autumn". The Policy and Resources Committee on the Isles of Scilly heard on Tuesday night that ^6.7m had been endorsed by the European Development Fund. Wet winter victim The majority of the cash will be spent on St Mary's airport but around ^1.2m will go towards work at Land's End. It is half the estimated cost of hardening the runway so the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company, which owns the airport, will fund the difference. The grass runway at Land's End was a victim of the wet winter with 521 hours of flying lost, according to the Steamship Company. It is the sole provider of commercial flights to the islands, which have a population of 2,200. On St Mary's more than ^2m will be spent on new hard runways to replace the grass ones, and bringing the present hard runways up to date. About ^100,000 will go on updating navigational aids and lighting so that aircraft can land in foggier weather . More than ^2m will be spent on improving the terminal building. The TiC report mentions two runways being surfaced, but the BBC says a total of 800 metres of tarmac. A quick butcher's at the AIP (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-4B5C3229E0725EF8D303F494DB9FAEC8/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGHC_2-1_en_2013-04-04.pdf) shows that there are two main runways at Lands End. 07/25 is 695 metres long, 16/34 is 792 metres. If 800 metres in total is being done, that would suggest that only 16/34 is being done. 07/25 is more in line with the prevailing westerly winds, so maybe it is that runway that is being dealt with, with an extension. It would not be a good idea to part-tarmac a runway. They do exist, most notably 09/27 at St Marys, but the grass part would still be prone to waterlogging, so the object of the exercise would be defeated. It could be that the grass bit of St Marys is being done, plus 07/25 at Lands End. Twin Otters are very robust, but I wouldn't like to try a crosswind landing in some of Cornwall's winters. The shorter runway length would be more than compensated for by the better orientation. I will look for details on the planning site - none exists so far, so it could be that an application has not been made yet. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on August 18, 2013, 11:04:12 The This is Cornwall news where the part stating 2 runways will be tarmacked is a quote from the chairman of IOS steamship company, whereas no source or interview mentioned within the BBC article.
I am assuming the chairman would be providing accurate information to an interview edit - I Re-read the BBC article and it says 800m will be done in September, the TIC article says the 2 runways will be done before the end of the year. We're not comparing like for like. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on August 18, 2013, 12:57:27 Ah, makes sense!
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on September 04, 2013, 02:19:08 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-23949732) (03/09/2013):
Quote The government has confirmed ^8m funding to improve the ferry link between the Isles of Scilly and the mainland. The European Regional Development Fund is expected to provide the rest of the money for the ^10m scheme. It could result in dredging of the channel at Penzance to take a bigger ferry. Andrew George, Liberal Democrat MP for St Ives, said it was an opportunity to regenerate Penzance and St Mary's. 'Better conditions' Local Transport Minister Norman Baker, said: "We are putting at least ^8m into this scheme which shows that the coalition government is serious about protecting the livelihood of the Isles of Scilly. "Improved terminal buildings will provide better conditions for passengers. "Changes to the harbours themselves will ensure new vessels can still access the port protecting this route for use by residents, freight and holiday makers." The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC) which also operates flights to St Mary's from Land's End, has invested ^2m into upgrading facilities on board the passenger ferry Scillonian III, which sails to St Mary's from Penzance. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on September 04, 2013, 18:45:21 Quote It could result in dredging of the channel at Penzance to take a bigger ferry This bit stood out to me, as the harbour at St Mary's is the problem with no depth of water. Penzance is deeper than St Marys Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on July 29, 2014, 10:07:18 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-28539704):
Quote Land's End Airport reopens after runway work An airport has reopened after a multi-million pound project to improve its runways. Tarmac has been laid on four runways at Land's End Airport, in Cornwall, which has been closed since 4 July. It was due to reopen on 21 July but was delayed because of resurfacing problems. The airport has seen severe disruption over the last two winters because wet weather affected its grass runways. It was closed to flights for three months in the winter of 2012/13 when the airfield became waterlogged. Skybus flights to the Isles of Scilly have been flying from Newquay since the airport was closed. The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company is the sole provider of commercial flights to the islands. In June, it said about ^1.3m from the European Regional Development Fund had been confirmed for the ^2.6m project. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on July 30, 2014, 21:05:51 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-28539704): Land's End Airport reopens after runway work Tarmac has been laid on four runways at Land's End Airport, in Cornwall, which has been closed since 4 July. Four runways makes it sound like Boris Island, but we are talking 07/25 and 16/34 - strictly four runways over two stretches of tarmac*. I've checked the AIP chart for the aerodrome (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-4ACA79AC474EDA8C8C275C25D0582FF2/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGHC_2-1_en_2013-11-14.pdf), which has not yet been amended, and still shows all Good news though, esp. as Mrs FT,N! has announced an intention to make a tour of inspection of the Scillies. (*My poetic licence is in the post) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 04, 2014, 15:59:32 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-29054831):
Quote Isles of Scilly helicopter link 'could reopen in 2015' (http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77361000/jpg/_77361573_chopper3.jpg) British International Helicopters blamed falling passenger numbers and rising costs for the end of the service to the Isles of Scilly in 2012 A helicopter link from Penzance to the Isles of Scilly could be reopened, a Cornish MP has announced. St Ives MP Andrew George said talks were progressing well for passenger helicopters to return in 2015. Tourism operators on Scilly said the price of a flight would have to be right for it to be successful. Two companies approached by the BBC - EasyJet and Ryanair - refused to comment on "speculation" two airlines were interested in the venture. The final helicopter journey to Scilly, after a 48-year link, by British International Helicopters (BIH) took place in October 2012. At the time BIH cited rising costs and falling passenger numbers. Mr George and Graham Cole, the chairman of AgustaWestland, the Anglo-Italian helicopter company, have "jointly expressed" their optimism over a potential helicopter service. Mr George said: "When I asked AgustaWestland last year to help with plans to re-establish the service I was encouraged by their willingness to engage. Following our [recent] meeting I am more confident." The company's AW 189 helicopter will be used by Bristow when it takes over search and rescue in Cornwall. AgustaWestland previously said it would offer the first helicopter off the production line at a cheap rate to encourage someone to set up a commercial service to Scilly. John May, who runs a camping facility on St Mary's, said: "Wherever possible you have to offer the customer what they need, but you have to keep the cost as low as we can." The Council of the Isles of Scilly said: "The council welcomes any initiative that brings an additional mode of transport to the islands. The council is not involved in discussions between commercial operators at this stage." Ryanair said it did not comment on what it called "speculation". Flybe said it was "unfortunately unable to comment". Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: grahame on September 04, 2014, 16:22:36 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-29054831): Quote St Ives MP Andrew George said talks were progressing well for passenger helicopters to return in 2015. Would 2015 be around the time that Mr George might be looking to defeat his parliamentary seat? Oops - it may sound like I'm being a bit cynical here, but in practise there is a certainly cyclicity in some forward looking, and in some speculative, developments. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on September 04, 2014, 16:23:45 No mention where the heliport would be in Penzance. Won't be cheap to build a new one.
Or are they going to use the Sainsbury's car park built over the old heliport? :P Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Thatcham Crossing on September 04, 2014, 16:46:07 I was in Penzance last week (having not visited for around 15 months) and was amazed to be told by the guy in the Sainsburys filling station that the whole thing was built from scratch and opened in 6 months - it's a biggish store.
I also noticed that there is a windsock on the roof at the western end - but I presume not a strong enough roof for an S61 (or AW189) to land! I imagine they may have had to retain some kind of Met. observation facility, as the heliport used to be an official Met Office Aviation reporting station. Even in Summer, and especially with the weather as it was last week (wet, windy, low cloud, poor viz a lot of the time), I can only imagine that the Skybus fixed-wing operation must be haphazard at best. The big helicopters were much more resilient to the variable west country weather! Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on September 04, 2014, 20:01:24 This is, unless a cynical electioneering stunt, cause for optimism, although not much. It's a long way from the reported words of the MP who wants a helicopter service and the man who wants to sell a new helicopter to the first flight. There is no reason why it couldn't happen. A new heliport needs less space than an airport, and with only a couple of dozen pax per flight, it needs only a small terminal, a short runway, fuel, and fire services. And a windsock.
A windsock is a visual aid to the wind as it is at the moment of observation, and does not form part of the suite of instruments in a Met Office weather station. If there is a filling station at the supermarket, then the windsock may be there to assist the emergency services in the event of vapour leak. You will see four on the roof of the huge Morrison depot near North Petherton, probably for the same reason. The nearest Met Office weather station is at RNAS Culdrose, with another at Camborne. There isn't one at Lands End airport, nor at Newquay airport. The latter does provide aviation observations in the form of METARs (METeorological Aviation Reports) which are observations of the weather at the airfield. These are nothing to do with the MET Office, but observation of wind, visibility, temperature, pressure, and cloud, made by the man or woman in the tower. It may be this that was offered by the former heliport, but there wasn't a Met Office station there when it closed, so far as I can tell. METARs are promulgated world-wide by the Aviation Weather Center, part of the US National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration. Bigger airfields, and Newquay is amongst them, also issue TAFs, Terminal Area Forecasts. Military fields have their own forecaster on site, civilian airfields' forecasts are made by the Met Office in Exeter. They typically offer a 24 hour forecast in a fairly small area (5 mile radius of the aerodrome), updated 6-hourly. These are also collated by NOAA. The current METAR and TAF for Newquay, for interest, reads: Quote Aviation Digital Data Service (ADDS) Output produced by METARs form (1825 UTC 04 September 2014) found at http://www.aviationweather.gov/adds/metars/ EGHQ 041820Z 35004KT 4500 HZ BKN008 17/15 Q1017 TAF AMD EGHQ 041803Z 0418/0421 09007KT 4000 HZ BKN012 PROB30 TEMPO 0418/0421 6000 SCT020 showing that at EGHQ (Newquay) at 1820 UTC (1920 BST) on the 4th, the wind was 4 knots from 350 degrees. There is haze, and broken cloud at 800 feet, the horizontal visibilty being 4500 metres. The temperature is 17C, the dew point 15C (hence the haze and the low cloud), and the pressure adjusted to sea level is 1017 HectoPascals. Between 1800 and 2100 UTC (1900 and 2200 BST) the wind will veer to become easterly, and strengthen to 7 knots, with broken cloud at 1200'. There will be temporary periods where visibility will improve to 6000 metres, and the cloud will lift slightly. But that bit has a probability of only 30%, so will be ignored mainly. On the fixed wing front, fog or very low cloud will continue to thwart operations at Lands End, which has no instrument landing system. Newquay has, so can accept diversions in all but the worst of visibility. As the Scillies are so close, the standard procedure is to sit tight until the weather improves. Conditions can be checked locally by reference to the Aviator's Weather Forecasting Stone, which has a high degree of accuracy: (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/Weatherstone_zps876760bd.jpg) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on September 04, 2014, 20:21:02 A new heliport needs less space than an airport, and with only a couple of dozen pax per flight, it needs only a small terminal, a short runway, fuel, and fire services. And a windsock. To add. Transport infrastructure and multi-mode ticketing options to bring custom to the heliport. Just like what there used to be. Could be done, should be done. I agree. Whether it will be done is an entirely different kettle of fish. Or whirlybird full of people. I've long wanted to visit the Isles of Scilly and was actively looking at the rail/helicopter options back in the early part of this decade. Much more preferable to me, for novelty, than the Scillonian sailing or fixed wing flight. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on September 04, 2014, 22:16:37 I've long wanted to visit the Isles of Scilly and was actively looking at the rail/helicopter options back in the early part of this decade. Much more preferable to me, for novelty, than the Scillonian sailing or fixed wing flight. I also looked for options, and hope to be able to do so again in the not-too-distant. Fun though the choo-choo-chop-chop combo may be, my own preferred method, highly unlikely though it now is, would always be in the left-hand seat of a 4 seater aircraft, such as a PA-28. Whilst learning to fly, I planned it as a theoretical navigational exercise, starting from Filton. The route took us over Exmoor, around Plymouth, and across Cornwall. I built in a re-fuelling / brew stop at either Perranporth, Bodmin, or Lands End. If the last, I would spend a bit of time climbing after departure, for safety - at least FL060 before the mid-point of the crossing via the Scillies Corridor. Then a slow descent for an overhead join before one of my semi-controlled but somehow ultimately soft reconnections with the floor, preferably via runway 33. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on September 04, 2014, 22:39:49 choo-choo-chop-chop Is that not a perfect marketing tagline? Quick FT,N! Trademark it! :P ;) ;D Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: stuving on September 04, 2014, 23:38:29 Even in Summer, and especially with the weather as it was last week (wet, windy, low cloud, poor viz a lot of the time), I can only imagine that the Skybus fixed-wing operation must be haphazard at best. The big helicopters were much more resilient to the variable west country weather! You'd think so, but not always - at least, not in the early 70s when I went to the Scillies. We started by objecting to the extra cost due to some of the party insisting on going by plane, but the day we came back the BA helicopters were grounded. I can't now remember who flew the little plane we were on (10 seats or less) from Newquay, or whether they really were the only fixed-wing operators at the time. The day before we came back, we could afford to joke about the 50 shades of green that the Scillonian had given its passengers, when they disembarked. This was the old one - more draught than the current vessel, but no stabiliser - and famous for its roll. Then, as I say, we found BA were not running due to high winds. Our flight did: taking off was OK, the crossing quick, and the landing ... interesting. The pilot based his landing technique on the width of the St Mawgan runway, meaning that an oblique approach got the wind close to head-on, and the reduced airspeed that allowed something close to a zero-length landing roll. It's only later, on reflection, that you wonder if it was such a good idea after all. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 05, 2014, 00:01:18 An old pilot's adage: 'Any landing that you walk away from was a good one.' ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on September 05, 2014, 00:17:24 Indeed. And an excellent landing is one that allows the aircraft to fly again. ;D
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TonyK on September 11, 2014, 16:48:10 Our flight did: taking off was OK, the crossing quick, and the landing ... interesting. The pilot based his landing technique on the width of the St Mawgan runway, meaning that an oblique approach got the wind close to head-on, and the reduced airspeed that allowed something close to a zero-length landing roll. It's only later, on reflection, that you wonder if it was such a good idea after all. It is a little disconcerting to be able to see the runway through the passenger windows on finals, but I'm betting that your pilot ran the aircraft straight down the middle of the runway after banging the nose around at the last minute. The offset approach is generally favoured by bigger aircraft. For we four-seater single engine jockeys, the "wing down" method is preferred. You dip the wing into the wind, then apply opposite rudder, holding this sideslip position even through the flare. You need to estimate the headwind and crosswind components rather quickly, using the information supplied by the tower - as an example, if you were landing on runway 27 at Bristol, and you were told by the ATIS (Automated Traffic Information System* - a recording of the current state of play) "Wind is three one zero speed three zero knots", the wind is 40 degrees right of the runway direction. You would have a crosswind component of around 20 knots, and a headwind component of around 23 knots - out of my depth! Airspeed is never reduced for landing, but with an approach speed of 70 knots for a PA28 and a 23 knot headwind, the relative ground speed is a mere 57 knots, which makes it feel like a Harrier landing. The three most important things to monitor during finals to land are, in order of importance, 1) Airspeed 2) Airspeed and 3) Airspeed. My first crosswind landing remains a memory. I turned from base leg to finals to land on 27 at Filton, at 1500 feet, and about 2 miles out. I lined up perfectly with the runway, then watched it slide gracefully to the right. After I had done it a few times, my instructor said he couldn't understand why my landings were closer to the centre line with a crosswind than without. I couldn't understand it either. (* You can listen to the ATIS on frequency 126.025 MHz, callsign Bristol Information, or on 01275 475686. These are published contact information. Each update has an identification letter from Alpha to Zulu, and a pilot would call eg "Golf - Foxtrot Golf Whiskey Romeo, aerodrome in sight, DME 10 decimal 9 with information Quebec, request joining instructions Golf - Whiskey Romeo.") Which reminds me that it's time for a dram. Sl^inte! Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 27, 2014, 22:15:47 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-29392514):
Quote Cornwall and Isles of Scilly link work to begin (http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76918000/jpg/_76918213_69409181.jpg) Harbour works and dredging improvements will be carried out Work to improve transport links between Penzance and the Isles of Scilly is set to begin after funds were secured. The ^11.9m scheme includes pier widening, dredging in Penzance and improvements to both harbours. The European Regional Development Fund will provide ^5.5m for the scheme, with the Department for Transport providing the rest of the money. The Scillonian ferry and the Skybus air service links Cornwall to the islands. The works are expected to be completed in Penzance by the end of March and on the islands by the end of June. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on February 03, 2015, 07:58:12 From Andrew Geroge, M.P, West Cornwall
http://www.andrewgeorge.org.uk/scillies-helicopter-step-closer/ Scillies Helicopter Service One Step Closer Andrew and AgustaWestland Chairman Graham Cole before their meeting at Department for Transport The effort to reinstate a helicopter service to the Scillies continues. I recently led a delegation of senior executives from AgustaWestland and PricewaterhouseCoopers to meet Transport Minister, Baroness Kramer, to seek Government support for the reinstatement of the Scillies helicopter service. It was agreed that, following the meeting, PricewaterhouseCoopers and AgustaWestland executives will meet with Department for Transport officials to go through the report to identify where there may be prospects for Government support within state aid rules. This is encouraging. The PwC report/business case is encouraging and confirms there is a viable business opportunity for the service, operating from a Penzance heliport. It also confirms that a new heli-link will be a significant boost to the Islands^ and the Penzance economy. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Thatcham Crossing on February 03, 2015, 09:52:11 I wonder which "Penzance Heliport" that is, as the old one in now a Sainsbury's Supermarket (I know a lot of people know that!)
I can't see Skybus/IoS Steamship being too keen on a helicopter op. from St Just (which they own, and have just spent quite a bit on) in direct competition with their fixed wing op. Anyway, St. Just is no good for someone arriving by train at PZ and wanting to travel on by air. Newquay is an option, great if flying in from London, and wanting to xfer to IoS, but Skybus already make this possible, and Newquay is not very good for road/rail connectivity. The ideal would be another heliport right next to the Penzance rail terminus and the A30, but in the past BiH could not make it work (and that was with an existing heliport and old helicopters that were probably written down years ago), so this seems like a venture for someone with very deep pockets. If AgustaWestland are involved, I wonder which helicopter they are proposing? Assuming a civil version of the Merlin/EH101 is not likely to happen (it never has yet), the AW189 is their only other current model that might be suitable. The nearest replacement for the old S61's is the S92, but that of course is a Sikorsky! Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on July 14, 2017, 16:32:14 Isles of Scilly steamship company are running an offer for residents of Devon and cornwall to do a Sunday day trip in July and August for £25 per adult
Details here https://www.islesofscilly-travel.co.uk/locals-offer-2017/ Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: SandTEngineer on July 14, 2017, 17:40:56 Isles of Scilly steamship company are running an offer for residents of Devon and cornwall to do a Sunday day trip in July and August for £25 per adult Mmm. The weblink says it ends in July..... ::) Shame, as I could have done the trip last month.Details here https://www.islesofscilly-travel.co.uk/locals-offer-2017/ Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on July 14, 2017, 18:07:57 The Facebook post said July and August. I must admit not reading it fully though
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on May 21, 2021, 13:56:13 Well it'll probably take your mind off Covid for a few hours
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/gallery/uncomfortable-isles-scilly-ferry-trip-5437463 Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: johoare on May 21, 2021, 14:09:47 I've been on that boat twice and it didn't make me feel ill at all but many other people were suffering even though the crossings I was on were relatively calm (way out) and slighly less calm (way back). I would not like to travel today or tomorrow on it though. Not even in the downstairs "sick" room (which is my name for it - not the official name ;D)
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on May 21, 2021, 14:41:39 Today's crossing got canned, not surprising really
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: stuving on May 21, 2021, 15:10:49 The closest I got to that ocean-going punt was going down to the harbour at St Mary's to see the surviving passenger coming ashore - so hard to colour-match that shade of green. We'd flown across, and that was scary enough (he helicopters had stopped). On the way back we landed at both St Mawgan and Newquay - at about 45o across the runway. (This would be about 1974.)
I don't remember much about visiting to the Isle of Man as a young teenager, apart from the crossing on the Manxman. That has a similar reputation, and I thought a similar (lack of) draught - but apparently it's about twice the Scillonian's. Still, at that age it was quite bad enough for me. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Jamsdad on May 21, 2021, 17:48:43 'Twas ever thus. The renowned Victorian/ Edwardian photographer Gibson produced a memorable series of photos showing the increasing despair of passengers on the original Scillonian as they head west wards into the open ocean!
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: rogerw on May 21, 2021, 18:41:03 Used this service in 1963. In those days you could stand up in the bows. It pitched on the way out, giving me a soaking at one stage as I wasn't watching out. On the way back it had a significant, albeit gentle, rolling motion.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on November 24, 2023, 15:43:18 It was previously suggested that H&W were considering to build 3 new ships to run a competing service using the levelling up fund that the IOSSP declined, H&W now appear to be trying to take control of the IOSSP....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67518645 Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on November 25, 2023, 09:08:03 Didn't see that coming!
Not enough trade for two companies to run all year. H&W seemed to offer the best option for all year round services. The helicopter service from Penzance is nothing to do with the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company either. Will be interesting to see this play out. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Bob_Blakey on November 25, 2023, 11:25:35 ...H&W seemed to offer the best option for all year round services. ... The Harland & Wolff 'brand' is apparently now owned by a company called InfraStrata who run a number of small ship building and repair yards in the UK (including Appledore in North Devon). The only late autumn>winter>early spring public transport services are the separate Penzance<>IOS helicopter service (£150 one way) and the IOS Skybus (£130 one way) from Land's End Airport. Given the weather during this part of the year I would have grave doubts that anybody could run a reliable year-round maritime service. InfraStrata have absolutely no history of providing public transport services so I would be very suspicious of their motives in this case. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on November 25, 2023, 12:38:07 The only late autumn>winter>early spring public transport services are the separate Penzance<>IOS helicopter service (£150 one way) and the IOS Skybus (£130 one way) from Land's End Airport. Given the weather during this part of the year I would have grave doubts that anybody could run a reliable year-round maritime service. Likewise the GryMaritha (the current winter service freight and 8 (or 12?) passengers. If H&W can provide a good winter service (plus a good less weather dependent summer service), then well done that man. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on December 21, 2023, 13:42:15 H&W no longer interested in taking over IOSSC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67785067 Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on December 21, 2023, 18:10:45 H&W no longer interested in taking over IOSSC But they are still building their own ships to run in opposition (earlier than the Steamship ones)https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67785067 Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: bradshaw on December 22, 2023, 17:02:17 H & W proposing new ferry for next year. I wonder if the ISSC will regret their decision regarding talks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67800783 Quote A new ferry is set to take passengers between Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly in faster journey times from next summer, its operator says. Shipbuilder Harland and Wolff (H&W) has chartered a ship it says will come into service from May, with 90-minute trips. Last month H&W made an approach to buy the existing operators, the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC), but was "unequivocally rejected". The ISSC ferry, the Scillonian III, is scheduled to sail from March. H&W is calling its new arm Scilly Ferries, and said the new vessel was a catamaran that would take up to 400 passengers between Penzance and St Mary's in about one hour and 30 minutes. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on December 22, 2023, 18:20:26 H & W proposing new ferry for next year. I wonder if the ISSC will regret their decision regarding takks. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67800783 Quote A new ferry is set to take passengers between Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly in faster journey times from next summer, its operator says. Shipbuilder Harland and Wolff (H&W) has chartered a ship it says will come into service from May, with 90-minute trips. Last month H&W made an approach to buy the existing operators, the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC), but was "unequivocally rejected". The ISSC ferry, the Scillonian III, is scheduled to sail from March. H&W is calling its new arm Scilly Ferries, and said the new vessel was a catamaran that would take up to 400 passengers between Penzance and St Mary's in about one hour and 30 minutes. game on Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: bradshaw on December 22, 2023, 21:11:45 The plot thickens….
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67806640 Quote Urgent food deliveries have been set up for the Isles of Scilly in time for Christmas after a freight ship carrying chilled foods broke down. The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC) said the Gry Maritha returned to Penzance shortly after departure. It said the repair was not likely to be completed until Boxing Day at the earliest. The firm apologised for the disruption, as rival firm Harland and Wolff (H&W) stepped in to make the delivery. H&W said it had set up a free freight service to St Mary's on Saturday. John Wood, H&W's chief executive, said on Facebook the service was "for any emergency items and food required for Christmas". He said only one run was possible, because of the forecasted weather conditions. He added: "It is an unfortunate situation and difficult to deal with at this late stage with everyone shutting down for Christmas, but we are looking at all options." ISSC said in a travel update it was "exploring all options" for the transportation of urgent chilled food to the Scilly Isles. "Please accept our apologies for the obvious inconvenience that this has caused, and be assured we are doing all that we can to minimise further disruption to the freight service," it said. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Mark A on December 22, 2023, 21:29:17 Hmm. It'll be a while since many people on Scilly have had to resort to sea-beef.
Mark Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on December 23, 2023, 07:50:17 A local inter-island launch, Lyonesse Lady will make a return trip today, already a third of the way to Penzance, but she's not capable of speed! 8 knots.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Mark A on December 23, 2023, 09:46:32 And there she is: a shipping map.
Mark https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10 (https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on December 23, 2023, 11:16:25 And there she is: a shipping map. "Oh no she's not!" (panto season).Mark https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10 (https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10) As at time of writing, she's alongside in Penzance. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: LiskeardRich on December 23, 2023, 11:21:33 H & W proposing new ferry for next year. I wonder if the ISSC will regret their decision regarding takks. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67800783 Quote A new ferry is set to take passengers between Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly in faster journey times from next summer, its operator says. Shipbuilder Harland and Wolff (H&W) has chartered a ship it says will come into service from May, with 90-minute trips. Last month H&W made an approach to buy the existing operators, the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC), but was "unequivocally rejected". The ISSC ferry, the Scillonian III, is scheduled to sail from March. H&W is calling its new arm Scilly Ferries, and said the new vessel was a catamaran that would take up to 400 passengers between Penzance and St Mary's in about one hour and 30 minutes. game on Aremiti 5 appears to be the vessel in question. Recently advertised for sale, and is an Austal 56m meeting all of the other specification mentioned Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Mark A on December 23, 2023, 21:31:19 And there she is: a shipping map. "Oh no she's not!" (panto season).Mark https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10 (https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10) As at time of writing, she's alongside in Penzance. And now returned to Scilly. Mark Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on March 05, 2024, 20:43:47 ...Scilly Ferries now booking...
https://scillyferries.co.uk/ unfortunately doesn't appear to be any cheaper than the IOS Steamship company Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: ChrisB on March 05, 2024, 21:02:04 It seems to be a Catamaran for people only, no vehicles.
Two return trips a day most days, 90 mins is quicker than the Steamship. £48.75 return is very reasonable. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: grahame on March 06, 2024, 02:22:23 It seems to be a Catamaran for people only, no vehicles. Two return trips a day most days, 90 mins is quicker than the Steamship. £48.75 return is very reasonable. I took a look and was struck by how much the service varies from one day to another - it seems to lack pattern and I wonder if that's tidal, what it does for regular traffic that might like consistency, or have I totally missed something? A sample month: (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pnzcat2407_01.jpg) (http://www.wellho.net/pix/pnzcat2407_02.jpg) The white on yellow looks good on the pictures of the cat - I found it hard in their timetable and I have colour adjusted the screen captures here to make it (for me at least) more readable. Again, others may find the originals easier on the eye ... I appreciate I am reading / posting in the middle of the night. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on March 06, 2024, 07:08:39 The timetable colouring doesn't look good for me, not easy to read.
A 'day out' during the week gives very little time ashore on most runs. With the current Scillonian (III), a Saturday run ashore have more time there compared with this proposed IoS ferry service. Without checking, I wonder if the different times are tidal related. The 90 minute crossing will be a boon to provide two trips a day. Also noting an intermittent Sunday service (double in the early months). Prior to this there has never been a Sunday service - not even flights. Revolutionary! Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on March 06, 2024, 07:16:26 The current Steamship Company do reduced fares for 'mainlanders' for a day out; both ways by ship; out by ship and return by flight (also v.v).
Wonder if the new company will compete with special reduced fares to compete. The independent helicopter company also does occasional special reduced day trips, albeit comparable prices to Skybus (the Steamship arm). Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Mark A on March 06, 2024, 11:16:18 I took a look and was struck by how much the service varies from one day to another - it seems to lack pattern and I wonder if that's tidal, what it does for regular traffic that might like consistency, or have I totally missed something? Visiting Scilly back in the day, the helicopter service and various flights were already a thing, but onward travel and especially travel to and from the off-islands was very much geared to the arrival/departure of the Scillonian which did keep things reasonably simple and straightforward for through travellers. It would be interesting to know how things work now. Mark Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: ChrisB on June 21, 2024, 21:46:24 From ITV (https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2024-06-20/new-isles-of-scilly-ferry-service-delayed-until-mid-july)
Quote A new ferry service for the Isles of Scilly has delayed its launch date for a second time, as it undergoes final regulatory approvals. Scilly Ferries had started taking bookings from the beginning of May to coincide with the World Pilot Gigs Championships and has been providing customers with alternative crossings. The Atlantic Wolff ferry is currently on the water in Portsmouth where, after rebranding, has been through a series of tests but it is unlikely to be operational until early to mid July. In a statement to customers Harland and Wolff CEO John Wood said "We know that this is disappointing, but we will do our utmost to transfer your bookings under the same terms where at all." The company which is the rival of the 104-year-old Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (IOSSC) has been a topic of conversation for many months. Opinions have been divided on how successful it will be. Janice Nightingale from the Bourdeaux shop said "it's certainly shaken things up a bit. "You always think that it's good to have a bit of competition so and it gives you choices. "I don't know that there's going to be enough business or sufficient business to keep both of them going." As well as moving people on and off the islands, the ferries are vital for getting freight to the Isles of Scilly. Phil Moon, managing director of the restaurant and cafe On the Quay, says the bulk of their supplies come from the mainland three times a week. "With the competition that's coming in, and the differences that that might do, it's interesting, but also very worrying, because we just don't know what the future holds." "There's positives and negatives. Obviously we need a service full stop. If there's no service here, there's no Isles of Scilly in my eyes." Meanwhile the long-serving ferry, 47-year-old Scillonian 3, is on its way out with the new Mark 4 vessel is starting to be built in Vietnam at the end of June. The IOSSC expects it to be in action by 2026. It has not all been smooth sailing for the long standing Steamship Company with some controversy over the changes in finances with it being privately funded instead of receiving £48 million pounds of levelling up money. Stuart Reid, chief pperations denied there was any trust issues with islanders saying: "Everything we do is around ensuring that there's maximum benefit for both the community and the company at the same time. "That goes with the new vessel project as well. We did a huge amount of consultation during the design process. "We've been out several times to the islands, right the way through that four year project, which allowed the community to feed back into those plans, but will the two services." Cllr Steve Simms, the Isles of Scilly lead for transport, has been closed following the actions of each company. Cllr Simms said: "It's like a Greek tragedy...leaving the islands in a state of flux. "I do not know what the travel situation will be here in 12 months because of what's happening. "And also, on the other side in Whitehall, we see absolute chaos and we can't move on until we get another government." A couple of photos of the new ferry in the article. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on June 22, 2024, 07:06:21 https://scillyferries.co.uk/
20 June Atlantic Wolff Update The vessel has now re entered the water in Portsmouth and undergoing final works, the project has indeed been challenging in many ways to ensure the vessel is in a material condition that we are comfortable with. We are now very close to being operationally ready, with our gangways having been load tested and our additional structure for the top deck loading will be fitted next week. The regulatory authorities have been back onboard the vessel this week where they have witnessed the emergency deployment of the life raft system and the crew have demonstrated the safe evacuation of passengers. We are in the final stages of flagging the vessel into the UK Ship Register and we look forward to seeing the red ensign flying proudly on the back of the vessel shortly. Whilst we are not yet ready to accept passengers, we do believe by early / mid July we will be in a position to do so. snip........ Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Mark A on June 22, 2024, 11:04:39 The Portsmouth weather horked their painting schedule. Surprising it didn't fit inside a shed, mind.
Like the way they've styled it to blend in to the Scilly landscape. Does anyone know the history of how the ferries have been accommodated in Penzance harbour? Wondering where the new one will berth. Also, 'Scilly Ferries'. Wasn't there a time when the islanders themselves would use 'Scilly' 'The Isles of Scilly', but leave the phrase 'The Scilly Isles' to the visitors? Mark Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on June 22, 2024, 11:28:58 It will be interesting to see how both ferries can load and discharge when in the harbour.
Freight even more so. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Mark A on June 22, 2024, 15:13:44 An engaging collection of images of Penzance station and environs on Curnow Collection's link below.
It includes one of a large station nameboard on one of the platforms, the entire scene looking to be from a different era. Behind the sign, a view to the south pier, and, alongside, a vessel which turns out to be the current Scillonian 3 ... a bit of a time-traveller. Mark https://curnowcollection.com/penzance-infrastructure/ (https://curnowcollection.com/penzance-infrastructure/) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on June 23, 2024, 09:03:52 An engaging collection of images of Penzance station and environs on Curnow Collection's link below. It includes one of a large station nameboard on one of the platforms, the entire scene looking to be from a different era. Behind the sign, a view to the south pier, and, alongside, a vessel which turns out to be the current Scillonian 3 ... a bit of a time-traveller. Mark https://curnowcollection.com/penzance-infrastructure/ (https://curnowcollection.com/penzance-infrastructure/) I would think that photo' is pre 1977 which means that it would be the Scillonian 2 but, as you say, it is a very good collection Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Mark A on June 23, 2024, 09:39:52 Thanks for querying that. You're right, not the current Scillonian. Not a Scillonian at all. That's the 'Queen of the Isles' that came (briefly) into service in 1965 and saw Penzance intermittently for the next five years or so.
Mark http://www.queenoftheisles.com/ (http://www.queenoftheisles.com/) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: johnneyw on June 23, 2024, 10:48:27 Also, 'Scilly Ferries'. Wasn't there a time when the islanders themselves would use 'Scilly' 'The Isles of Scilly', but leave the phrase 'The Scilly Isles' to the visitors? I've always known and referred to them as "the Isles of Scilly". Mind you, I also habitually say "the Mendip Hills" rather than "the Mendips" . Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: bobm on June 23, 2024, 13:29:00 Whenever someone mentions Mendip, I think of.....
(https://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/mendip.jpg) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: JayMac on June 23, 2024, 20:20:04 Me too. :P
(https://i.postimg.cc/kD32g7VQ/IMG-20221017-142732-2.jpg) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on July 20, 2024, 09:50:07 The new fast ferry, "The Atlantic Wolff", arrived in Newlyn last Wednesday (17th) and was due to start in service Monday 22nd July, but another delay was announced yesterday and it is now due to start on Tuesday 30th.
Interestingly also announced yesterday was the resignation, or "taking a leave of absence" of Harland & Wolff CEO John Wood after failing to secure a £200m loan extension.... Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: old original on July 26, 2024, 11:12:28 ...first sailing now postponed to 20th August, "due to unforeseen reasons, beyond it's control"
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on July 27, 2024, 07:00:14 In view of the continual delays, may we perhaps just take off the "delayed until mid-July" from the title please?
Just make it "New Isles of Scilly ferry service". Bearing in mind in 2025 plans will be drawn up for the Scillonian replacement. With perhaps a year for building. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: grahame on July 27, 2024, 07:08:06 In view of the continual delays, may we perhaps just take off the "delayed until mid-July" from the title please? But the title does not say mid-July in which year ... Yeah, makes sense to make the change though Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: TaplowGreen on July 27, 2024, 08:38:12 ...first sailing now postponed to 20th August, "due to unforeseen reasons, beyond it's control" ..........crew shortage? ;) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: froome on July 27, 2024, 08:54:50 ...first sailing now postponed to 20th August, "due to unforeseen reasons, beyond it's control" ..........crew shortage? ;) Wrong sort of waves? Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: eightonedee on July 27, 2024, 11:53:28 Sadly, recent press articles about Harland & Wolff's financial difficulties indicate a shortage of cash might be the problem.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 27, 2024, 14:49:34 In view of the continual delays, may we perhaps just take off the "delayed until mid-July" from the title please? Just make it "New Isles of Scilly ferry service". Bearing in mind in 2025 plans will be drawn up for the Scillonian replacement. With perhaps a year for building. Agreed, and done. I've also moved the topic to this board, where other ferry issues are covered. Hope this helps! CfN. ;) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on August 01, 2024, 08:55:30 Atlantic Wolff has ceased trading (before it started).
Harland and Wolf have advised they've cased all Scilly operations. It's reported on local radio, but nothing on the BBC web as yet. Cornwall Live (complete with many clicks) https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/live-scilly-ferries-announce-sudden-9451528 Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: stuving on August 01, 2024, 10:17:38 Atlantic Wolff has ceased trading (before it started). Harland and Wolf have advised they've cased all Scilly operations. It's reported on local radio, but nothing on the BBC web as yet. Cornwall Live (complete with many clicks) https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/live-scilly-ferries-announce-sudden-9451528 This is part of a deal to allow the main business to avoid administration, by cutting non-core activities. I guess the backers are saying "no point investing in the future if you go bust this year". From City AM (https://www.cityam.com/harland-and-wolff-titanic-shipbuilder-staves-off-collapse-after-securing-emergency-20m-loan/): Quote Harland and Wolff: Titanic shipbuilder staves off collapse after securing emergency £20m loan By: Guy Taylor The Belfast shipyard said it had entered into agreements with lenders to increase its existing credit facility by $25m (£19.5m). ... However, the announcement was followed by a decision from the shipyard to withdraw its Scilly Isle ferries service, which runs between the islands and Penzance. In a statement, Harland said it would be “winding down business lines that are deemed to be non-core for the company” as it looks to cut costs. The new Scilly Ferries service was set to run its first trips on 22 July, but kick-off was delayed due to Harland’s financial issues. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 01, 2024, 19:56:06 Atlantic Wolff has ceased trading (before it started). Should I now amend this topic heading again, to include '... not happening' ? ::) From the BBC: see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck5gkxg700jo :( Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 17, 2024, 16:52:08 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crkddrv7v2po):
Quote Titanic shipyard to go into administration Shipbuilding company Harland and Wolff has confirmed the business is to be placed into administration for the second time in five years. Insolvency practitioners Teneo are being lined up to act as administrators and some "non-core" staff are being made redundant. However, the company’s board said there was a "credible pathway" for its four shipyards to continue trading under new ownership. Its main yard is in Belfast, best known for building the Titanic, with other operations at Appledore in England and Methil and Arnish in Scotland. The company said the administration process would be confined to the holding company, Harland & Wolff Group Holdings plc, and the operational companies which run the yards are expected to continue trading. However, shareholders will see the value of their investments in the business entirely wiped out. The firm said its non-core operations are being wound down. That process had already started with the closure of its Scilly Isles ferry service before sailing had even begun. (... news article continues ...) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on September 17, 2024, 17:22:24 From the BBC (http://Titanic shipyard to go into administration): Quote Titanic shipyard to go into administration Shipbuilding company Harland and Wolff has confirmed the business is to be placed into administration for the second time in five years. Insolvency practitioners Teneo are being lined up to act as administrators and some "non-core" staff are being made redundant. However, the company’s board said there was a "credible pathway" for its four shipyards to continue trading under new ownership. Its main yard is in Belfast, best known for building the Titanic, with other operations at Appledore in England and Methil and Arnish in Scotland. The company said the administration process would be confined to the holding company, Harland & Wolff Group Holdings plc, and the operational companies which run the yards are expected to continue trading. However, shareholders will see the value of their investments in the business entirely wiped out. The firm said its non-core operations are being wound down. That process had already started with the closure of its Scilly Isles ferry service before sailing had even begun. (... news article continues ...) Not able to click through from the link Maybe this will work https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crkddrv7v2po Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 17, 2024, 17:50:39 Thanks, GBM - I made a right pig's breakfast of that hyperlink - now corrected. :-[
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: GBM on September 18, 2024, 06:35:37 Oddly, the H&W freight services are still running on the Scillies services.
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: CyclingSid on September 18, 2024, 07:29:29 MoD has just ordered new supply ships from H&W https://www.forcesnews.com/services/navy/fleet-solid-support-ships-contract-royal-navy-will-go-ahead-troubled-belfast-shipyard (https://www.forcesnews.com/services/navy/fleet-solid-support-ships-contract-royal-navy-will-go-ahead-troubled-belfast-shipyard)
Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: stuving on September 18, 2024, 14:13:55 MoD has just ordered new supply ships from H&W https://www.forcesnews.com/services/navy/fleet-solid-support-ships-contract-royal-navy-will-go-ahead-troubled-belfast-shipyard (https://www.forcesnews.com/services/navy/fleet-solid-support-ships-contract-royal-navy-will-go-ahead-troubled-belfast-shipyard) This order was in fact placed in January last year, with the Resolute consortium including H&W. Most reporters and headline writers have struggled to make the distinction between the shipyards businesses (trading and solvent) and the group holding company (being wound up as insolvent). Even Hilary' Benn's statement doesn't manage to, perhaps because both companies are just called Harland and Wolff. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 27, 2024, 18:54:36 An update, from the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxgn1n08k7o):
Quote Titanic shipbuilder formally enters administration Harland and Wolff, the Belfast-based shipbuilder which built the Titanic, has formally entered administration for the second time in five years. Last week the company’s board had warned that the move was inevitable. The administration process is confined to the holding company, Harland & Wolff Group Holdings plc, with the operational companies which run the yards continuing to trade. Its main yard is in Belfast with other operation at Appledore in England and Methil and Arnish in Scotland. The company’s executive chairman, Russell Downs, is optimistic that a new owner or owners will be found for the yards. Gavin Park and Matt Cowlishaw of Teneo Financial Advisory have been appointed as joint administrators. The holding company currently has 59 employees. In a statement Harland and Wolff said: "The Administrators will unfortunately be required to reduce the headcount upon appointment. A number of employees will be retained to provide certain required services to the operational companies under a transitional services agreement with the Administrators." The company has also restated that the administration process means that shareholders in Harland and Wolff will see the value of their investment wiped out. Famous for building the Titanic, the Belfast shipyard was founded in 1861 by Yorkshireman Edward Harland and his German business partner, Gustav Wolff. By the early 20th Century, Harland and Wolff dominated global shipbuilding and had become the most prolific builder of ocean liners in the world. Harland and Wolff was bought out of administration in 2019. Its then Norwegian owners had withdrawn support and the business fell into insolvency, having not built a ship in a generation. The new owner, Infrastrata, was a small London-based energy firm which did not have significant experience in marine engineering. Infrastrata later changed its name to Harland and Wolff and in 2022 won a major Royal Navy contract as part of a consortium led by Navantia, Spain’s state-owned shipbuilder. However financial losses mounted as it scaled up its operations. The 2021 accounts, which covered a 17-month period, showed a loss of more than £25m. The audited annual accounts for 2022 showed turnover of £28m and a loss of about £70m with the auditor’s opinion of "material uncertainty" about the firm’s ability to continue as a going concern. Unaudited accounts for 2023 saw a loss of £43m. The company was increasingly reliant on high-interest borrowings from a specialist US lender, Riverstone. It was also pinning its hopes on getting government loan guarantee that would allow refinancing with more conventional lenders. In July the new government confirmed there would be no support as there was "a very substantial risk that taxpayer money would be lost". Russell Downs, a restructuring expert, was parachuted in to act as executive chairman and began a strategic review of the business along with advisors from Rothschild bank. Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: ChrisB on November 19, 2024, 21:12:30 From Business Live, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/harland-wolff-s-failed-scilly-ferries-venture-left-3m-in-debt-before-collapse/ar-AA1ulLJH?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=866302e22c994d44c17f236e42f4f0d5&ei=246)
Quote Harland & Wolff's failed Scilly Ferries venture left £3m in debt before collapse Harland & Wolff's ill-fated venture into the ferry service sector, Scilly Ferries, amassed debts of £3m before succumbing to administration earlier this year, according to recent disclosures in official filings. In a bold move by the former management of the shipyard renowned for building the Titanic, Scilly Ferries was established despite setbacks including financial turmoil and a delayed launch, ultimately ceasing operations without completing a single trip, as reported by City AM. The ambition shown by Harland surprised industry observers since the company ventured into an unfamiliar ferry operating domain and had previously been unsuccessful in obtaining the contract to revamp the ageing Scillonian III service connecting the Scilly Isles with the mainland. Newly released documents at Companies House have now confirmed that Scilly Ferries was significantly indebted to creditors totalling more than £3m at the point of its collapse. This comes on top of earlier reports exposing that the parent company, Harland & Wolff, owed a staggering sum exceeding £160m as it entered administration. Back in May, amid postponements to Scilly Ferries highly anticipated summer inauguration, Harland & Wolff arranged for a helicopter service to mitigate inconvenience for customers left stranded by the delay, as City AM reports have indicated. Detailed in the records is the revelation that Starspeed Limited, holding a five-year contract from 2022 to conduct air transportation between Penzance heliport and the Scilly Isles, had an outstanding claim of £71,016 against Harland at the time of its financial demise. During that turbulent period, John Wood, the then-chief executive at Harland, disclosed in May that discussions were in progress with various local operators to forge "secure alternative arrangements" catering to those who had bookings with Scilly Ferries. Passengers took to social media to voice their frustrations about last-minute changes and lacklustre communication regarding their planned long-distance travels, while some expressed excitement at the unexpected opportunity of a helicopter ride. Starspeed has remained silent, not providing any comments when approached. The lavish spending has sparked further scrutiny over financial decisions leading up to Harland's second fall into administration within five years. When City AM reached out for a statement, Wood implied that inquiries should be "better directed at the directors that took over the business." He referenced his records, noting that the choice to halt [alternative] operations likely resulted in a loss of at least £6m in revenue for the initial season, discussing the ferry service. Wood claimed that the venture was projected to reach break-even in its inaugural year and that helicopter flights were factored into the budget due to anticipated repeat business from Starspeed during the summer months, "when helicopters couldn't fly due to fog." Amidst the turmoil and under new leadership, the company initiated an internal investigation into the mismanagement of over £25m by its previous executives, which appeared to have provided "little or no financial or corporate benefit." According to reports from Irish News, other creditors include the Labour party and the Labour-affiliated think tank, Progressive Britain, with debts of £18,000 and £12,000 respectively. Over two months since entering administration, Harland & Wolff now appears to be on the brink of a rescue deal with Spanish state-owned shipbuilder Navantia, a move that could potentially safeguard around 1,000 jobs. Harland & Wolff did not respond to a request for comment. btw - if you are merging ferries, why not buses (or trains) ??? :o Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 19, 2024, 21:25:50 ChrisB:
I try to merge topics where they are specific to one particular location, or service - in the interests of clarity / continuity. Indeed, I'm looking at this whole 'Scilly' subject, as it's been the subject of many posts, in several different topics. Surely it would be helpful for our readers to be able to access all of that information in just one definitive topic? CfN. ::) Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: grahame on December 06, 2024, 21:15:01 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6273nqdpvpo
Quote Ferry route is UK's best for wildlife spotting Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 19, 2024, 11:51:47 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn9g2r9dn0vo):
Quote Harland & Wolff saved by deal with Spanish firm (https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/976/cpsprodpb/dedb/live/e9315a10-bde9-11ef-a4bd-c7fb844e3cd3.jpg.webp) Harland & Wolff, the Belfast shipyard best known for the Titanic, has been saved by a deal with Spain's state-owned shipbuilder. Navantia had been in exclusive negotiations since October after Harland & Wolff's holding company fell into administration. About 1,000 jobs are to be saved in the deal, which also includes Harland & Wolff's facilities in Scotland and England. The UK Business Secretary Jonathan Reynolds said the deal was "good for jobs" and "good for national security". Reynolds said that the deal secures all four Harland & Wolff yards across the UK and guarantees jobs for "years not months in all four of those yards". He added that the deal was "a major vote of confidence in the UK from Navantia". Asked whether the government had sweetened the deal for Navantia by changing the terms of a contract to deliver three Royal Navy support ships, Reynolds said there had been a "minor revision" to the contract to include "more support" from the government. The agreement is to be presented as early fruits of the government's post Brexit "reset". Gavin Robinson, the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), said he was "delighted that this agreement has been reached which will secure the future of jobs in Belfast and in its other sites". The MP for East Belfast said that uncertainty over the future of the business had been "hugely unsettling... particularly for all the staff at the yard". Robinson added that Harland & Wolff "forms part of a wider defence sector that has huge potential for further growth in Northern Ireland". Navantia, which is 100% owned by Spain's government, has been a significant recipient of funding from the European Commission as part of the European Defence Fund. Joining the fund is a possible objective for the UK-EU security reset, set to be discussed at a summit early in the new year. The Spanish economy minister responsible for its state-owned businesses, Carlos Cuerpo, met with Chancellor Rachel Reeves and Business Secretary Jonathan Reynolds in London last month. Navantia already has a business relationship with Harland & Wolff. It is the main contractor on a project to build three support ships for the Royal Navy, with Harland & Wolff acting as UK subcontractor. The company employs a core staff of about 1,000 in Belfast, Appledore in England and Methil and Arnish in Scotland. Navantia's main shipyard is at Cadiz in southern Spain. It employs more than 4,000 people and has an annual turnover of about €1.3bn (£835m). Title: Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Post by: ChrisB on December 19, 2024, 11:57:04 I'm unsure that they are picking up the car ferry though
This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |