Great Western Coffee Shop

When searching for WOS to PAD on Sundays, there is a 1436 journey that has no fare valid on it! (using East Coast)

How is this? Does it mean it's free? :P

It involves changing at Bristol Parkway. Is that a permitted route?

I assume it is included as it will get you to London earlier than waiting for the next train (14:53) but you can't get a through ticket.  The FGW app doesn't show it.

off on a tangent, but where on FGW can you board a train, get off the same train a few stops later and there is no valid ticket for the journey???

St Budeaux Victoria Road to St Budeaux Ferry Road.  Or vice versa.

Yes, or in fact any Cornish station to/from Victoria Road....

I've checked the routeing guide and there is no valid route allowing travel via. Bristol for Worcester to London.

can you do that without changing trains though? The question asked staying on the same train, would you not need to change at plymouth?

There are through trains between Gunnislake and Liskeard which reverse at Plymouth   ;D

One train in each direction in the evening peak, a Gunnislake - Liskeard and Liskeard - Gunnislake service I believe!

So what would the guard sell you? Two single split tickets? Tut tut... guards encouraging splitting! :P

There's a St Budeaux (Any) to Plymouth return fare - 2.00 offpeak, 2.60 peak, which I would hope (s)he would sell you. To sell two single tickets would result in you being charged a higher fare than necessary for your journey.

Of course, if you spoke to the Conductor before boarding the train (I'm guessing there aren't TVMs at these stations, nor PERTIS), you may be better advised to "go out of the station and cross the road"  ;D

P.S. If you got on the 18:12 from Ferry Road to Victoria Road, you should probably be sold a return to Keyham - 1.30 - which is valid for the doubling back via Plymouth.  That would be a very good (and very unfair) test ticket purchase request for the organisations that go round checking if the rail companies are offering the lowest fares as they should be doing.

via newport should give you a valid through ticket - or it used to!

caveat - haven't bought it for nearly two years

Hell, you'd be sold a return to Keyham and made to get off there to catch the service coming back again!! Its like all these students who get on at Truro with a single to Perranwell on a train that doesnt stop there then state they'll stay on until Falmouth and get off at Perranwell on the way back. Funnily enough they go missing at Falmouth having paid to Perranwell to get past the gateline and the most execellant gateline staff. I love Truro gateline staff they are fab.

I doubt it. The 18:12 is nonstop from Ferry Road to Plymouth.

If you use FGW's own site and ask for a single from Ferry Road to Keyham at 18:00, you're offered the 18:12 train - a direct service arriving at Keyham at 18:29.   And I would have thought that was valid according to the rules - it'll be "any permitted" and direct services (without changes, same advertised train) are always a permitted route, as I understand it. And a return ticket for this purpose is two singles.

grahame is correct. Through trains are always permitted. Whether they reverse, double-back through a station, loop-the-loop or go via Sidmouth.

From the National Routeing Guide:

...except on the Fife Circle.

As the service is a through train it is perfectly allowed to double back, also it is allowed to double back between 'group' stations which Keyham, Dockyard, Devonport and Plymouth are all part of the Plymouth group for fares purposes. You'd struggle to exit at Plymouth anyway, with a gateline!

How is it the gateline staffs fault? They have a valid ticket from that station, so surely the gateline staff would not be involve at all, because the gate would open automatically! If a conductor is checking tickets and allowing a student to do that rather than telling them to get off at Penryn, they are just as much at fault as the gateline staff!

On the Fife circle, savvy commuters use this rule. They buy a ticket to the first stop on the circle and then travel the wrong way round, getting off halfway round the circle, where the fare would be much higher. Must save thousands...

Should in theory be a permitted route to go from Truro to perranwell on a non stopper via Falmouth, based on "A through train is one which runs between the origin and destination stations and on which passengers can make their journey without having to change trains". Thats assuming the return from Falmouth to Truro stops at Perranwell. As stopping short is permitted on some tickets, in theory bailing off at Falmouth would be stopping short as it is prior to the train arriving in Perranwell on the through train example above.

On a Truro to Falmouth Docks train the

Origin Station is Truro.

Destination Station is Falmouth Docks.

The Return working is a different train service with IIRC a different Headcode.

That is correct.


When it says 'A through train' it means ONE train service, Truro to Falmouth Docks is one train service, Falmouth Docks to Truro is another, therefore when the train arrives at Falmouth Dock it is classed as a change of trains, even though in reality it is the same train.

Howver BNM from which i got my theory from suggests otherwise in his above post

If you take the word 'train' literally that is, of course it isn't meant to be. When it says train, it means a service, not a train as a whole on a diagram.

With reguards to the Truro Perranwell via Falmouth journey example, at Falmouth Docks the Train terminates and all passengers should alight.
So when the train leaves Falmouth Docks any passengers coming back has Changed trains even if without getting out their seat.

With St Budeaux Ferry Road and Victoria Road there is a problem AIUI in that a fare from Ferry Road to St Budeaux should be priced via Keyham, but as Plymouth group stations then the ticket would be valid at Plymouth so it would become cheaper to buy a St Budeaux to Keyham ticket than one to Plymouth yet both would be valid at Plymouth, a St Budeaux Keyham ticket technically valid only for change of Trains, but Break of journey is allowed for changing trains.

The Answer would be to call both stations simlply St Budeaux make Ferry road platform 1 (downside), platform 2 (upside) and Victoria Road platform 3 (Branch).

However I have a suspiicion that to make this simple change means that as 2 Stations would become 1 it may involve a Closure process and thats just what may well happen at Ferry Road. (Closure)
Or it maybe to make both Stations into ONE may involve massive expense on making a walking route from Ferry road platforms to Victoria road without having to cross a Public Highway, are there any locations that when changing trains to cointinue your Journey that invovle walking across a Public Highway and the other Platforms have the SAME title?
Take Waterloo & Waterloo East, at one time you had to cross a Public Highway!
Liskeard between main platfrom and Branch platform (3) doesn't count it's a railway OWNED road so NOT a public highway.

Didn't read above before posting  #fail

 ::)

Where exactly did I say it was any fault of the gateline?? I said they are excellant, which indeed they are....