Great Western Coffee Shop

from 2nd january, up from ^6.20 to ^6.80  for a return from Bath to Bristol.
So how do we now interepret their fare reduction of Sept from then ^6:50 to ^6.20. I interpret it as another cycnnical and failed pr exercise. I think lots of commuters will be seriously disgrunteld with this new increase. I suspect we were prepared for the fare to return to ^6:60 but ...almost seven quid!
Will commuters now feel that this is the last straw and that they will now support a second fare strike?
I know that some of the FGW staff who post on here have expressed cycnisism about these tactics, but it certainly had much of the the travelling public's support and that of the media, questions were asked in parliament and the perception was that trains increased in length as a result.
If they get away with this increase, it wil be way in excess of 7 quid next year.

Get the X39 then!

Hate to put it this way but, stop being a cheapskate and pay the measly 60p more they ask you for?

At te end of the day, an extra 60p a day isnt exactly breaking the bank, especially as job salaries/wages go up with inflation.

Or if you're a regular commuter on that route, why not get yourself a season ticket?

If we we do have another fare strike then anyone I catch will be reported for fare evasion!

Is that a peak rate fare, or any time of day?

^6.80 for 12 mile rail journey corresponds favourably to non - peak rail fairs to Reading and London.

A season ticket will bring that price down a lot though.

Bristol to Reading is 72 miles and return prices are
Peak - ^70 approx
Off Peak - ^36 approx
! week season - ^150 which equates to ^30 per day.

It's only Standard day/open fares and most first class fares, nearly all cheap days are staying the same by the look of it.

I suggest that EVERYONE, not just those who travel on FGW, had better get used to these large fare increases every year from now on.

Call it a Rail Tax if you like for the privelege of travelling in style everyday, on modern, clean, spacious and frequent services...no wait a minute I must be thinking of Swiss or German railways but without the Tax. Because thats the only reason for these larger than usual rises in fares, its to pay the government the huge premiums promised by these companies desperate to run the UK's rail system. Forget all this ATOC nonsense about needing more money to invest in the railways, they are doing that already as they have to as part of their franchise commitments.

Want to win a rail franchise? Then promise the pay the government big money. Except it won't be the company that wins the franchise that pays it it will be the passenger as where else is the money going to come from? certainly not from the shareholders profits.

Its not as if we haven't been warned that this would happen. All recently award franchises have indicated how much they will have to raise fares during the life of their franchise which as I say can only mean one thing...much higher rail fares.

6.80 return, Bristol to Bath, is 30p per mile.  And that compares to well over 50p per mile from Chippenham to London on a standard day return, and to rather less than that from Melksham to Swindon - also 6.80 but a longer journey that Bath Bristol.

I do not know the Bath / Bristol case, but I will say that the fares on the TransWilts could RISE at aaround 7% over the rate of inflation for 5 years with an appropriate service and that is part of the model for coming up with a service that's appropriate for the line.

I also once worked out that the franchise payment is the equivalent of a 2 pound payment for every single passenger journey that arrives or departs at Paddingto for the whole franchise duration.  Does anyone know the total number of FGW passenger journeys per year so that we can work it out in relation to that?

There is no "one answer fits all".  I provide the information above to help fuel informed discussion, and would welcome further such data.

I think Timmer has hit the nail on the head. Fares are in effect a tax on travel, funding the exchequer, and have little to do with the real cost of travel. Also, I agree that fare comparisons need to be made with our European neighbours not with even more horrendously expensive fares on other routes in the UK. To achive change we have to influence governement, and publicity that highlights the laughable failure of the franchise system will help to hasten the day when the governement comes up with a more sensible way to run the railway. Not saying that direct action will change the world overnight, but it has an effect.
And no I wouldn't like to take the x39 Jim. That's run by First too, and perhaps this system of pribvate monoploy is part of the problem.

It's ^6 RTN is it not?

The issue is how the governement runs what passes for public transport, not whether a bus is 80 pence cheaper than a train.
Any discusssion with someone from over the channel will soon come to transport and they all say how awful our trains are. Please don't take this personally, you probably work on the railways, and do a very difficult job running an overcrowded and by international standards, clapped out train network.I can see that working on the railways is often thankless and that staff can be abused by mindless morons of passengers who are either drunk or stupid, so you have my symapthies. But it could be all so different. Call me a dreamer, but didn't the government just find ^26 billion under their matress for Northen Rock, that they may or may not get back. The money is there if they choose to spend it on a decent train network.The public can help them to change their priorities.

A Barnstaple to Penzance Cheap Day Return with a Devon and Cornwall Railcard is 3.4p per mile. (http://www.takeforum.com/forum/images/smiles/dance.gif)

what load of baloany that fare strike was. A load of 'em buy season tickets and the rest refused to buy tickets to go to Bristol in the morning. No problem there then as the staff were instructed not to check tickets and to leave the gates open. However the card up the sleeve was to close the gates in the pm and the fools who never bought the returns in morning had to purchase a single in the afternoon ;D :D. So lets say 5000 people done this 5000 x 10p (roughly the difference between the price of a single and return )= the cost to Great Western ^500  ;D.

That MTLS lot crack me up!!

What ^6 return on the X39 Bath-Bristol...you can't be serious. ^6 to travel on a bus? for that price I'd pay the extra 80p and travel on the train though the X39 does have the advantage of taking you all the way into Bristol.

Bath Chronicle article (link below.)
http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=180730&command=displayContent&sourceNode=232315&home=yes&more_nodeId1=163047&contentPK=19153667

In order to get to the bottom of what levels are sensible for fares we first need to answer this simple question:

Is the FGW network as a whole subsidised by the taxpayer or not?  I know that FGW pay a premium to the treasury, but when you factor in what the treasury gives to NR in our region (and our share of the huge NR debt which will never be repaid and will end up on the Government's books sooner or later) is our railway subsidised or not?  I know that the Government tries to hide the answer but it must be out their somewhere.

Once you know the base cost then you ask how much extra subsidy the tax payer shoudl pay in order to buy social and environmental benefits.

If the whole of the SW's railways do not require government support and are in fact self supporting then you have a case for removing Government from the equation completely.

Determining the level of fares is difficult.

Factoring in NR work in our region is meaningless, the government has spend literally no money in this area for years, whilst virtually every other area of the country has received significant investment. There is a chance of significant work in the Reading area soon to increase capacity, but this still a fraction of FGW levy the government.

The current fare structure it self is crazy and needs restructuring, for example,

Fares from BPW to Swindon are the same as BTM to Swindon.
Fares from BPW to Bath are more expensive hat BTM to Bath
Fares from BPW to Chippenham are the same as BTM to Chippenham 

I'd like to see fares charges at a reasonable mileage rate, and maybe a peak time premium. A pipe dream I know! Something like 15p per mile normally and 20/25p per mle for peak time journeys.

Well, they have the choice, quit moaning about high rail fares or take the cheaper alternative.

If I am honest though, I think if they managed to curb the trafic problem along BAth Road in to Bristol, where there is no bus lane, and if they removed some of the stops from the X39, I think it could be a viable alternative!

Or they could do what they do from Cardiff > Swansea and run a half hourly express bus with 1 stop each end for ^5 return?

almost constantly full. (60 seater coach, not a useless bus)

May be the subject has moved on a bit, but I have been trying to make some sense of just how much fare box money is paid to H M Government in the FGW franchise; it's a moving target - you can prove anything with the statistics if you choose your year carefully ;-)

In the current year (and up to 2008/9) First actually receives a subsidy per journey; it's decreasing and is just 13p in that last year.

From 2009 to 2016, First is to pay the Government 1.27 billion pounds and there is a forecast of 682 million journeys, meaning that 1.86 from each journey goes to the Chancellor. 

In the year 2015 / 2016 alone - the last year of the franchise - First is down to pay 312 million pounds on 110 million journeys - that's 2.83 per journey.

Of course, "pence per journey" is a poor measure, as it assumes the same amount being paid for a Clifon Down to Sea Mills journey as for a Penzance to Paddington one.

Hmmm just what FGW need...more publicity about discontentment amongst Bath commuters. Be all over the parish when the Chronicle comes out on Thursday. Surely last December isn't going to repeat itself all over again. I suppose that will depend on how many carriages FGW are able to lay on from next week with the 158s heading north and the 142s down in Devon not exactly behaving themselves.

Maybe the Devon Metro will get some publicity and we can all cause a riot like the Bristol lot. With the reliability of the 142s so far it wouldn't surprise me if the whole timetable fell apart!

Quote from the Save The Train forum :


Bristol Evening Post article (link below.)
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=19161815&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922

Update from Passenger Focus (link below.)
http://oldfieldparktrains.blogspot.com/2007/12/update-from-passenger-focus.html