Great Western Coffee Shop

Hi All,

Couple of weeks ago I asked about travelling from Cardiff to Bournemouth either via Reading or Swindon, and thanks to Bignosemac who explained that the National Rail site was showing the wrong fare and apart from advances the cheapest off peak return was ^50.

At about the same time I think once again Bignosemac put a link on this site about a new rover ticket from Swindon.

Anycase looked at that site and found the Freedom of Severn & Solent 3in7 and I thought if I settled for Swindon but not going through Reading this would be great plus .

So I decieded to wait and buy this on Friday I went online and checked the National Rail timetable and low and behold it shows this fare of ^42 for FSS ticket and stating it could only be brought a couple of days in advance.

So today I went to Cardiff Central and thought I do a little customer test at the ticket office

I asked for the cheapest ticket from Cardiff to Bournemouth travelling late morning on Monday and coming back either

Friday or Saturday. I was asked via Salisbury ( Has if I suppose to know what that means) so I said yes and was told
^50. I said is that the cheapest and was told yes. I then asked about the Freedom of Severn rover and it took the ticket salesperson a little while and she said oh yes that would be okay provided I left after 9.30, I said I did tell you late morning. I was then sold the FSS ticket for ^42. I was told it was valued for 3 days travel on the trains and 7 days on the Bus? This confused me cause I cant find any info on what Buses does anybody know?

Why did that option not come up? Or is it me being cynical and thinking they were trying to get the most money?

Now I have this ticket and dont mind a bit of traveilling was thinking of going via Taunton and Castle Cray down has I not in any hurry to get to Bournemouth what is anybodies advice

Thanks

Basset

It won't come up when the ticket office staff enter Cardiff to Bournemouth because rover tickets have to be issued in a different way, it relies on the member of staff knowing about rover tickets to know whether it would be the cheapest option or not. The bus thing would be the ticket office staff getting confused with the Wales rovers, which allow 4 days rail travel and 8 days bus travel within the defined area. The Freedom of Severn and Solent rover doesn't include any bus travel.

Barely any FGW staff know about this ticket. I travelled from Worcester to Weston, the ticket office at WOS had no idea what it was (ok LM, but still in the route of the ticket, so the staff should know), and neither did the THREE FGW guards I had en-route. I showed them the print out from the NR+FGW website and they all spent ages looking through their machines. The Weston ticket office did manage to sell me one, but it took a while.

The ticket can be bought on the day of travel, no need to buy in advance, I think you've been misled there.

During my week of travels, ALL other guards and gateline staff looked completely stunned by the ticket and "had never seen one of those before". Not a singe one knew what "FOSS" was. I had no troubles though.

My advice to you is to get the code for the ticket from the NR website and tell that to the guard on the train. They will then be able to find the ticket.

You are correct bassett44. The cheapest ticket for your needs, after explaining the journeys you planned to make, was indeed the 3 in 7 Freedom of Severn and Solent Rover (FOSS). That is, if the clerk had abided by impartial retailing rules, what you should have been sold.

It is no surprise however that the FOSS rover ticket was not offered by the ticket clerk you encountered. Despite the promises made by ATOC's Ticketing and Settlement Agreement that the cheapest ticket to suit the customer's needs should be sold, this is at the mercy of how well trained the ticket clerk is, and how well set up that clerk's Ticket Issuing System is. The system is mostly at fault although some blame also needs to laid at the feet of those responsible for training ticket clerks. Most clerks will only learn of these things through trial and error or by encountering a customer who is already armed with the knowledge of what they need.

As an aside. Don't be fooled though, even armed with some knowledge you can still encounter staff who will refuse to sell you the ticket or fail to give the correct advice because their computer says "no". I asked at a ticket office the other day what the the Off Peak Day Return validity was from Chippenham to Oxford (not via Reading). I was told "after 0930." I queried this and the clerk was adamant, "All Cheap Day Returns (sic) are after 0930." Taking the advice would've meant my arrival into Oxford at 1114 would actually have been over 30 minutes later than allowed. When I asked if she could check the actual restriction code text, the response I got was that her computer's journey planner always gives the right answer! Well it didn't. The correct answer is that an Off Peak Day Return from Chippenham to Oxford is valid from 0915 meaning I should be able to catch the 0925 and, after changes, arrive in Oxford at 1041.

Back to the OP. Another fault in the system is that National Rail Enquiries (NRES) will offer the fare for the 3 in 7 FOSS when making an online enquiry, but when you click through to a retailer the option to buy the rover disappears and only point-to-point tickets are available.

I've just tried to replicate bassett44's journey on NRES. Cardiff to Bournemouth out on Monday after 0930, return on Saturday. NRES correctly offers the FOSS rover as the cheapest walk-up fare and suggested to me London Overground as a retailer! I refreshed the page and it suggested First Hull Trains!!. A further refresh and I'm directed to First ScotRail!!! Needless to say, none of those retailers can sell a FOSS rover. Bonkers.

So the answer appears to be..... if you want accurate impartial advice and the chance to buy the cheapest ticket for your needs then don't rely on the industry to provide it to you.

To add....

bassett44. If you want to travel via Taunton and Castle Cary on your trip between Cardiff and Bournemouth then that is perfectly acceptable with a 3 in 7 FOSS rover. You can go all the way to Weymouth if you so desire!

With the FOSS rover you have unlimited travel after 0900 across the area of validity for any journey(s) you wish to take on each of the 3 days you make use of the ticket.

The area of validity is as shown on this schematic map:

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/FOSS.gif)

In the interests of fairness, the OP was attempting to purchase the FOSS rover at Cardiff Central, a station managed by Arriva Trains Wales. So no fault in this instance should be laid at FGW's door.

My earlier comments about the system as a whole being somewhat at fault hold true though.

Wow what a fantastic value ticket just wish I lived in the area.

hinking about i might be able to use one as I'm possibly going to Gloucester and back to Bristol, The infill will be a narrow boat. As the  boat trip is weather dependant 3 journies in 7 days would give me the flexibilty i need.

I could presumably get a Taplow Swindon odd peak (split at Didcot?) for the infill, although last time I did it I got incredibly cheap 1st Advanced

Being cynical I wonder if TOCS don't want to sell it as it's too good value.

FGW are one of the better TOCs for promoting Rover tickets. They have just produced a new Rover leaflet which is rather good and should be available at staffed stations, it's a shame they removed the Rover information from their website when it was redone. Taplow-Swindon tickets would be fine, if you split at Didcot and use the rover, as well as the Taplow-Didcot and Didcot-Swindon tickets on the same train the train doesn't even need to call at Didcot.

I would agree that FGW are good at promoting rover tickets. However it is clear that staff are not told about them.

To be fair I had the same experience with the Kent Rover with SET/SN. Everyone was bewildered by the ticket. I'm sure it's the same across the UK.

In Scotland, they are well known. In Wales, the ATW guard didn't know that a Rover was cheaper than a return along the HoW line (neither did I, a fellow commuter pointed this out - it still took the guard ages to find the ticket on the machine).

All ticket office staff should know about all Rovers from that station (and perhaps any neighbouring ones plus major touristy ones). All guards should know about all relevant Rovers on their routes. Sorry if it seems that I'm ranting at staff. I do appreciate how complex the system is, but in any other profession would not this lack of knowledge be unacceptable?

Btline, staff are told and are regularly kept up to date with rover ticketing for your concern.

They can also work well as a part time off peak season ticket where one is not available

If that's true why did 3 guards not know what a FOSS was?

Depends on where these guards cover etc, you cant expect everyone to have all the knowledge surely?

But you did just say that staff are kept up to date with rover ticketing.  ???

I would expect the all staff in the FOSS area to have at least heard of the FOSS rover! Otherwise, IMO they are not trained sufficiently to be running the trains. Ok, perhaps it's difficult to find in the machine, but to not know what it is is completely unacceptable.

Hi All,

Decided to go Cardiff to Bristol Parkway ( No Ticket check) barriers at Bristol Parkway did not accept ticket Cardiff did, went for a Cig.

When waiting for Cross country to Taunton a 150 to Weymouth came in little did i know I would see this again.

Bristol to Taunton on Cross Country nice plenty of seats, ticket checked just past Bristol, quick cig break at Taunton open Station by Taxi rank.

Taunton to Castle Cary 8 carriage train with a grey coach at the front could not see seats has i was towards rear, no ticket check.

Castle Cary to Dorchester on the 150 that came past me at Bristol was glad i chose the other route Ticket checked.

Walked from the Dorchester stations and caught a SWT train to Bournemouth, ticket checked.

Arrived Bournemouth on time and I got to say i enjoyed the trip, nice to see parts of the network i not been on, plus if I have the time I have a day to see some more, a excellent ticket.

Bassset

That would've been Mk 3 coach 42353 TSO-D (Trailer Standard Open-Disabled), renumbered as E12002 which was one of the original High Speed Train prototype coaches and as such one of the oldest Mk3's running, having recently passed 40 years in service. It was recently painted by FGW in the original HST prototype livery for its visit to Railfest 2012, were it was displayed alongside HST prototype power car 41001. Nice to see FGW running it round the network in service with the historic livery.

A picture of a prototype HST coach from 1972:

http://www.traintesting.com/images/MK3_coach_1972_small.jpg

The system is so complex that, no, you can't expect it.  But you should be able to expect it, as the system (in my personal view) is needlessly complex.

I've not studied the current fares consultation in detail, and I listened to a precise of what's in parts of it with increasing dismay at a meeting I attended last Friday night (MRDG). My understanding is that it's suggested that peak be split into high peak and lower peak in order to reduce the fare jump from peak to off peak, and to balance out the fares so that the optimal amount can be charged at each step to minimise the cost to the taxpayer of the railway.

There's a suggestion that part-time season ticket facilities need to provided somewhat more (routinely?) - there's certainly an issue that's been reported here, but whether a part-time season is a proper solution, or just a sticking plaster on a system that needs something more radical.

Finally, my understanding is that the consultation acknowledges that the general public finds it difficult to understand the current fares system, and tells the train operating companies that they'll have to explain it better in the future.

Now - I may be passing on a partial view - I would welcome comments / feedback / discussion  ;)

I saw the same set today at Reading on the (late running) 15:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central (I suspect basset44 viewed it on the inward working from Paignton).  When I came across it it was marshalled between Coach H and the rear power car and appeared to be locked out of use.  The departure board showed it as an 8 coach train but I don't know if that included the locked out coach as it was already on the platform when I arrived to catch the following train.

why would not having said knowledge of a rover ticket have anything to do with whether or not they have the ability to run a train? selling and checking tickets is secondry to their main duties which is safety of the train!! You also wouldnt expect guards in scotland or far cornwall to know of or need to know of such FOSS tickets.

It was in an otherwise 2+7 set, but shouldn't really have been showing as an 8-coach train, as it was locked out of use. It was probably just a positioning move for the coach, getting it from Old Oak Common to Laira. The same move happened in reverse when the coach was first reliveried, with it again being locked out of use and marshalled next to Coach H.

Supprised to hear it is running round the network in prototype livery. When I saw it at railfest, there were lines in the 'paintwork' leading me to decide it was probably vinaled, not painted, into the prototype livery. Hence I would have though FirstGW would have just removed the vinals and put it straight back into service.

I believe it was just vinyled, it was done at Laira though and presumably they are going to be taken off there too. It's just running around in service to get it to Laira.

Going back to the business of Rover tickets, I think that the lists of tickets on the various machines are probably very badly organised.

I'm saying this on the basis of the order in which they occur in the Avantix software.

If you want to issue a ticket from station A to station B, then it's easy - they're in alphabetical order.

But if you want a Rover, then you need to know the short name under which they appear in the list.

So the ticket that's sold as "Freedom of Severn & Solent 3 in 7 Day Rover" appears in the list as "FOSS ROVER 3 IN7", and it's between "FORT WILLIAM" and "FOUR OAKS".

Actually, the list looks like

    FORT WILLIAM
    FORT WILLIAM +BUS
    FORWARD TVL MGMT
    FOSCL FLEXI ROVER
    FOSS ROVER 3 IN7
    FOSS ROVER 8IN15
    FOSW ROVER 3IN7
    FOSW ROVER 8IN15
    FOTA (CIE
    FOUR OAKS
    FOUR OAKS+BUSWM
    FOUR WK ALLZONE
    FOUR WK ZONE 1*
    FOUR WK ZONE 12*
    FOUR WK ZONE123*
    FOUR WK ZONE1234
    FOUR WKZONE*2345
    FOWEY BUS

and a bit further on there's

    FRDM TVLPASS
    FREEDOM 3MONTH
    FREEDOM OF COAST

and

    FRM OF BRIT (in both "7DY" and "14DY" variants)

"DEVON" has "DAY OUT", "EVENING RGR" and "RANGER"

"DEN HAAG" appears properly, with both "DEN HAAG CS" and "DEN HAAG HS" separately listed.

There's several "DAYS OUT", "DAYSAVER" and "DAYTRIPPER" variants.

Can anyone positively identify "CWL PSSPT TO FDM", or "FTPL IBE" or "C W T".

And just in case you didn't think the designers could organise one, they've included "SPORTS PICNIC".

I was looking for the ticket sold as "Freedom of Devon & Cornwall - 3 in 7 Days". But I can't find it - and that's indicative of just how badly organised all of this is.

CWL PSSPT TO FDM = Cornwall Passport to Freedom, a Wessex Trains thing & finished when FGW took over.


Freedom of Devon & Cornwall - FODC

The three South West one are FOSS, FOSW and FODC for Freedom of Severn and Solent, Freedom of the South West and Freedom of Devon and Cornwall respectively if you ever need to buy one off a guard if you know the short code they should be able to find it easier.

Thanks for that - found it now.

But how are guards expected to know this horrendous list?

Ain't they under rover inquiry

Anyone know what to ask for if requiring the Maritime Ranger on the train?

I tried the other day and the conductor could not find it. I asked again on the way home and was told just buy a return from Truro to Falmouth. If you do this won't the barrier at Truro gobble it up?

Seems a bit useless if you can only purchase the Ranger at Truro ticket office.

Seems a bit like Plusbus where (as I understand it) you can't actually buy from the Bus conductor:

All the Cornish branch line ranger tickets are issued as return tickets, they cost the same. If you show your ticket to the member of staff on the barrier rather than putting it through the barrier you'll be able to retain it.

To confirm SS's post, they are off-peak day returns from end to end of each branch, i.e. Falmouth Docks - Truro.